Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
Wed Mar 4, 2020, 01:29 PM Mar 2020

Every possible melody has just been copyrighted and released to the public domain

http://www.openculture.com/2020/03/every-melody-has-been-copyrighted-and-theyre-now-released-into-the-public-domain.html

By generating all possible melodies above the middle-C octave as MIDI files, the two artists hope to head off costly infringement litigation that can hobble creative freedom. Riehl explains the ingenious concept in the TEDx Minneapolis talk at the top of the post, beginning with the issue of “subconscious” copyright infringement that sometimes forces artists to pay out millions in damages, as happened to George Harrison when he was sued for plagiarizing “My Sweet Lord” from the Chiffons' "He's So Fine."

Maybe what the law has not considered, says Riehl, is that “since the beginning of time, the number of melodies is remarkably finite.” Rather than inventing out of whole cloth, artists choose melodies from an already extant “melodic dataset” to which everyone potentially has mental access. Now, everyone could potentially have legal access. By committing melodic data to a “tangible format,” Samantha Cole reports at Vice, “it’s considered copyrighted.” Or as Riehl explains:

Under copyright law, numbers are facts, and under copyright law, facts either have thin copyright, almost no copyright, or no copyright at all. So maybe if these numbers have existed since the beginning of time and we're just plucking them out, maybe melodies are just math, which is just facts, which is not copyrightable.


Riehl and Rubin have released their billions of melodies under a Creative Commons Zero license, meaning they have “no rights reserved” and are similar to public domain. Available as open-source downloads on Github and the Internet Archive, along with the code for the algorithm the artists used to make them, the dataset might actually have sidestepped the problem of musical copyright infringement with technology, though whether the law, writes Cole, with its “complicated and often nonsensical” application, will agree is another issue entirely.
34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Every possible melody has just been copyrighted and released to the public domain (Original Post) Recursion Mar 2020 OP
a melody is a sequence of notes and can be copyrighted by law. nice try tho nt msongs Mar 2020 #1
And now all of them have (nt) Recursion Mar 2020 #2
they cannot claim copyright on melodies that are already copyrighted nt msongs Mar 2020 #9
But they can on all the rest of them (nt) Recursion Mar 2020 #15
Have they taken the time to sort them out? lame54 Mar 2020 #25
Don't need to Recursion Mar 2020 #27
Computers are really good at generating millions or billions of combinations. lapfog_1 Mar 2020 #28
Legal nonsense. Ms. Toad Mar 2020 #3
It's more like "every possible melody" that doesn't sound like crap. hunter Mar 2020 #24
Beautiful post - I hope you have (c) the tone and the intent. erronis Mar 2020 #29
"they already infringe all of the melodies in existence" jberryhill Mar 2020 #26
True. Ms. Toad Mar 2020 #31
I think the copyrighted ALL of the rest. lapfog_1 Mar 2020 #30
Copyright law doesn't work like this. But ok. StarfishSaver Mar 2020 #4
Dictionary.com says it's also a verb Orrex Mar 2020 #8
It's also an onomatopoeia. Dr. Strange Mar 2020 #10
I thought that was the study of birds Orrex Mar 2020 #14
Dictionary.com is wrong StarfishSaver Mar 2020 #17
I guess we're talking about two different things Orrex Mar 2020 #33
Music should be free. Qutzupalotl Mar 2020 #5
Songwriters should be paid for their work StarfishSaver Mar 2020 #6
Yep, accidentally left them off the list, sorry. Qutzupalotl Mar 2020 #7
If songwriters are to be paid for their work, the music cannot be free StarfishSaver Mar 2020 #18
Recorded music cannot be free. Qutzupalotl Mar 2020 #20
? StarfishSaver Mar 2020 #21
I agree with you, I was trying to make a point Qutzupalotl Mar 2020 #22
you should also work for free, right? so forfeit all your future income sources nt msongs Mar 2020 #12
Please read my whole post. Qutzupalotl Mar 2020 #19
There's an infinite number of melodies. docgee Mar 2020 #11
Uh Oh...Marvin Gaye's family says he did this in 1968 and have already filed suit cbdo2007 Mar 2020 #13
Pete Townsend wrote about this on the new Who album maxrandb Mar 2020 #16
Bravo! Goodheart Mar 2020 #23
Of course the saddest key, is D minor........ Arthur_Frain Mar 2020 #32
Melancholy Elephants -- Spider Robinson hunter Mar 2020 #34

lapfog_1

(29,219 posts)
28. Computers are really good at generating millions or billions of combinations.
Wed Mar 4, 2020, 07:49 PM
Mar 2020

so I am pretty sure that is what they did.

Ms. Toad

(34,086 posts)
3. Legal nonsense.
Wed Mar 4, 2020, 01:48 PM
Mar 2020

If the melodies are truly "every possible melody," they already infringe all of the melodies in existence. While it is possible that the rights holders to those melodies could sue Riehl and Rubin, what is more likely is that a person claiming license to a particular melody that is part of an earlier copyrighted melody will sue and the license will be worth what the user paid for it. I.e. nothing.

hunter

(38,323 posts)
24. It's more like "every possible melody" that doesn't sound like crap.
Wed Mar 4, 2020, 06:26 PM
Mar 2020

The algorithm works much like mp3 and other music compression algorithms do. It discards the stuff humans (in general) don't like, along with the stuff we don't notice.

Personally I think melodies are a lot like book titles. It's what you do with them that counts.

Maybe I don't think melodies are anything special because I can never get them out of my head. They just come to me. I can even bang them out on the piano, guitar, or computer. But that doesn't make me a composer or a musician.

It's like writing. Some of the saddest people on the internet spew out "ideas" for movie scripts or books they never get around to producing. They don't even get around to writing slash or other fan fiction. Nobody is going pay for that. Nobody is even going to look at it.

Oh! Oh! I have this great idea where Spock and Kirk are LOVERS!

I was witness to some of the first slash being written and posted to the internet. It's utterly astonishing to me how many people have claimed it as their own...



I also have seen bits of my own ancient software turning up. It's maybe 70% parallel evolution, and 30% deplorables.

My parents are artists. They do the hard work and sometimes get paid for it. They are now retired and can be artists full time but they always had day jobs. Same with a few of my siblings. My wife is an artist with a day job.

Copyright and patent law gets a lot right, but it gets more wrong and sometimes this impedes human progress.

I always respect copyrights but if someone is charging a price I'm not willing to pay (Apple, Microsoft...), or making demands of me I'm not willing to accept (the military-industrial complex...), then I simply avoid them.

The walls in our house our covered with art we've bought directly from artists. Our CD collection is similar. My computers run Linux.

It amuses me that some of the most pirated intellectual property on earth is crap.

erronis

(15,326 posts)
29. Beautiful post - I hope you have (c) the tone and the intent.
Wed Mar 4, 2020, 07:49 PM
Mar 2020

Seriously, what you say rings true to me.

Most of art is perspiration and a bit of inspiration. Most of us daydream our way to the ends of our lives without trying to create something that is meaningful, at least to ourselves.

Anything that stands in the way of lawyers making money off of everything they can is OK by me!

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
26. "they already infringe all of the melodies in existence"
Wed Mar 4, 2020, 07:45 PM
Mar 2020

Nope.

Unlike patents, wherein independent creation is irrelevant, copyright infringement requires copying. Access and similarity can be evidence of copying.

However, if these melodies were generated as the output of an algorithm, then they were independently created and not copied.

As long as they can prove the paper trail of independent creation, there is no infringement.

Ms. Toad

(34,086 posts)
31. True.
Wed Mar 4, 2020, 08:01 PM
Mar 2020

But as long as you can prove the paper trail, of independent creation you don't need this collection. You have your own individual copyright on the tune you created (independent of an earlier author and independent of this collection).

Artists who are truly innovating aren't copying - so they have no reason to seek a license to use tunes from this new collection, unless they had heard an earlier artist and wanted a license from somewhere else to establish they had a right to use it.

Generation by an algorithm may also invalidate the copyright because of the lack of creative spark - which is another layer of issues.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
4. Copyright law doesn't work like this. But ok.
Wed Mar 4, 2020, 01:49 PM
Mar 2020

Also, "copyright" is a noun, not a verb and "copyrighted" and "copyrightable" are not words.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
17. Dictionary.com is wrong
Wed Mar 4, 2020, 05:19 PM
Mar 2020

Copyright is the "right to copy." People have misused the word for so long that it is common to be used as a verb or adjective. But it's not either of those things and those words have no legal meaning, even if dictionaries have given in to the common usage.

Orrex

(63,220 posts)
33. I guess we're talking about two different things
Wed Mar 4, 2020, 10:26 PM
Mar 2020

As a legal term, I have no doubt that you're correct.

But common usage is language, and in common usage "copyrighted" and "copyrightable" are certainly words. Not with any legal weight, but words nonetheless.

I'm also quite confident that, in some courtroom somewhere, some lawyer has uttered the word "copyrightable" without getting blasted upside the head by the judge's gavel.

Qutzupalotl

(14,322 posts)
5. Music should be free.
Wed Mar 4, 2020, 01:50 PM
Mar 2020

Recording studios, musicians, songwriters, engineers, producers, distributors and marketers are what cost $$$.

This is a very interesting development.

docgee

(870 posts)
11. There's an infinite number of melodies.
Wed Mar 4, 2020, 02:11 PM
Mar 2020

Given the spacing between notes can be of infinite variations. Also, they probability violated the copyright of existing copyrighted music.

maxrandb

(15,347 posts)
16. Pete Townsend wrote about this on the new Who album
Wed Mar 4, 2020, 04:26 PM
Mar 2020

"I don't mind, other guys ripping off my song,
I'd be a liar, if I said I never done no wrong.

All this sound that we share, has already been played,
And it hangs in the air.

All this music must fade

Who gives a fuck"

https://m.

hunter

(38,323 posts)
34. Melancholy Elephants -- Spider Robinson
Wed Mar 4, 2020, 11:21 PM
Mar 2020
Copyright is a hot-button topic these days. Does information want to be free…or just reasonably priced? I discussed copyright at some length 25 years ago—a year before the first TCP/IP wide area network in the world went operational—two years before the first Macintosh went on sale!—in the following story. It won the 1983 Hugo Award for Best Short Story, and I hope you’ll still find it illuminating today.

http://www.spiderrobinson.com/melancholyelephants.html


Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Every possible melody has...