Can't find hand sanitizer in SoCal, so it's coming from NM!

[PasadenaTrudy]

Every store is out of sanitizer, rubbing alcohol, wipes, you name it. A twitter friend found me 3 small bottles at the Dollar Tree in Albuquerque, and she's sending it to me. Most of the stores in Abq are wiped out, too. We like to carry bottles in our cars. My boyfriend teaches at a school with international students, mainly Chinese. Desperate times call for desperate measures! Thank goodness for twitter and generous friends!

[hlthe2b]

1. Mix 1/3 cup aloe vera gel to 2/3 cup isopropyl alcohol. Stir well and transfer into squeeze bottles.

Not dramatically different than purell. Equally effective.

[DesertRat]

2. Thank you!

[Niagara]

5. I would like to point out that

Isopropyl alcohol also goes by the name of rubbing alcohol.

[hlthe2b]

7. Yes.

[PasadenaTrudy]

8. As I said in OP,

no alcohol to be found anywhere.

[hlthe2b]

10. You can purchase readily online. It is only a temporary sell-off.

Most people keep a pint onhand so I direct my comments to them.

[Kaleva]

26. amazon has it.

[Jirel]

14. Don't use it. Homemade is not effective.

The Internet is full of junk recipes for hand sanitizer. They are even less effective than the commercial ones, which are already dubious.

For example, isopropyl is lousy against viruses. The propanols, like isopropyl alcohol, works well on BACTERIA. You need to use ethanol, which you can't just buy in an nice bottle in the first aid section. In general, to make a really decent hand sanitizer, you need a combination of ethanol, isopropanol, and n-propanol to cover all the bases. However, without the addition of organic acids to the water and multiple-alcohol mix, the effect is extremely short-lived, as in minutes. The addition of organic acids can give up to 4 hrs effectiveness.

Even so, these sanitizers are not effective against many viruses. The best guess is that a good one will be at least somewhat effective against COVID-19 based on it being a coronavirus. But, nobody really knows yet. They are basically ineffective against noroviruses, polio, calcivirus, Hep A, and Foot and Mouth Disease, plus the spore form of the c. diff. Hand washing is considered far more effective than any sanitizer.

[hlthe2b]

15. Excuse me.It'is the isopropyl alcohol (same content as Purell) that makes it bacteriocidal/virucidal

Your assertion is simply no more true than to suggest pouring straight isopropyl alcohol (and leaving in contact) is not effective simply because the Purell company did not package it.


While I agree there are many home-made "recipes" for various things on the internet that one might question, in this case, your comment is LUDICROUS and demonstrably not true.

[sinkingfeeling]

21. I spent the morning in Target reading ingredient labels on

hand sanitizers. 99% listed nothing more than ethyl alcohol as active ingredient. I'm in Arkansas and saw no rush to hoard anything. Most had alone gel and/or glycerin.

[hlthe2b]

22. Yes... And while hand sanitizers are handy, thorough soap and water hand-washing is

still the best for many reasons.

Glad to hear there is no hoarding. I always keep a couple of weeks of non-perishables in the pantry. I'll let the demand cool and buy a few more weeks worth to replace the old stock in a few weeks.

[Kaleva]

27. Purell doesn't use isopropyl alchohol. Most hand sanitizers use Ethyl alcohol

[Jirel]

16. This is what it ACTUALLY takes to make a homemade version.

It's not easy and it's not cheap. However, this is what you have to do to make something reasonably effective - it's put out by the World Health Organization. The common recipes online are dangerous woo.

https://www.who.int/gpsc/5may/Guide_to_Local_Production.pdf

[hlthe2b]

17. Again wrong. Isopropyl alcohol is effective. Adding aloe does not in any way inactivate it.

Last edited Mon Mar 2, 2020, 07:03 PM - Edit history (3)

Alcohol is drying and causes damage to the epidermis. It is, for this reason, Purell and other companies add humectants (aloe is a humectant as well) to diminish the impacts. It is, however, the isopropyl alcohol that makes it effective. While I agree with FDA that there is no reason to believe it is 99% effective against all bacteria and viruses, to say it is not bactericidal and virucidal runs counter to the evidence.

While we do not have specific viability testing against disinfectants for this specific Coronavirus, we do know that it s an enveloped single-stranded RNA virus. Since those viruses without envelopes are actually harder to deactivate then EPA has made clear they will allow provisional claims for the activity for those disinfectants (e.g., Chlorine bleach, Lysol, and others) that have been proven effective against these more hardy viruses on an emergency basis.

As to 70% isopropyl alcohol, it has been shown to be effective against adenovirus (common cold) and enveloped viruses, such as BVDV (Bovine Viral Diarrheal Virus and HCV (Hepatitis C virus) commonly used as proxy viruses for testing. So, while one would never suggest its environmental use as a primary surface disinfectant against the hardiest viruses (e.g, polioviruses) there is ample reason to believe it can reduce risk of viral contamination to hands as an adjunct to thorough soap and water hand-washing where the latter may not be practical.

[Jirel]

24. Wrong. You need to read the papers on the chemistry.

There are lots of them from multiple peer reviewed sources.

[hlthe2b]

25. I have. You don't know what you are talking about

You are out of your league on this.

[fleabiscuit]

28. Make sure to use 91% alcohol at that ratio to assure effectiveness. nt

[getagrip_already]

30. make sure it's 90% or higher...

The CDC recommends hand sanitizer be greater than 60% iso. You can still find 91 and 99% on amazon affordably.

You can add some glycerine (5ml in a Llter is enough) to stabilize it and essential oils to scent it (peppermint, etc). And if you have joint issues in your hand, you can also mix in some CBD oil.

[at140]

3. A powerful sanitizer is lurking right inside your house if

you have a large/medium size dog for pet. Dog's saliva is a powerful germ killer, which is why they can heal their wounds by licking. Just show your dog a piece of meat and let him drool on your hands.

[frazzled]

4. That's nothing. There was no toilet paper at Costco today!

Zero. They said it had been sold out since Saturday. I told them that constituted a national emergency.

(We did find some at Target, but it involved a tedious second stop and large schlep through another giant store. )

[at140]

6. If out of toilet paper, use the method from India

I spent first 20 years of my life in India, and never had toilet paper.
It was water only to clean, and actually it felt cleaner than using dry toilet paper.
Things might have changed now since last time I was in India was 1984.

[frazzled]

11. When I lived in France

Back around 1970, the most common “toilet paper” in public places was squares of newspaper. Not pleasant, but you do what you have to do.

I wish I owned a Toto toilet, but I don’t.

[at140]

12. Yes, I wish there was a Bidet in my bathroom as well...

I have never liked using dry toilet paper. I keep using more and more, and after 5 or 6 times,
the paper still shows poop stains. Use water from a long shower hose and clean as a whistle LOL..

[PasadenaTrudy]

9. There were runs on many products this last weekend! n/t

[Jirel]

13. Why? That stuff is junk.

Hand washing is far more effective for many reasons.

When people put on hand sanitizer, they don't usually do a full scrub. It's like hand sanitizer is a magic wand - rub a bit on the majority of the hand, and they're good. That's not how it works. You're leaving a lot untouched that will be covered if you wash your hands correctly instead. All areas of the hand, between fingers, under the nails.

Most hand sanitizers are alcohol-based. You need a minimum of 60% alcohol to do any good. Most do contain that much, at least. However, the less alcohol you have, the less effective the sanitizing will be, and the longer it will take. Also, viruses can live longer than you are dousing your hands in an alcohol solution. For many, about 30 seconds will do it. But do you have liquid hand sanitizer all over your hands for a full 30 seconds? For some bugs, it may take as long as 5 minutes. (See this article on how long it takes to kill, for example, the Flu virus - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-flu-hand-sanitizer/handwashing-beats-sanitizer-for-killing-flu-virus-on-hands-idUSKBN1W42G8) You definitely aren't soaking your hands in it that long. We don't know how long COVID-19 takes to kill at this point.

The FDA just nailed Purell, which has about 70% alcohol, for making false claims about its effectiveness (see https://wkdq.com/feds-warn-maker-of-purell-hand-sanitizer-not-to-claim-it-can-kill-viruses-flu/). The FDA

Experts recommend (see https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/28/hand-sanitiser-or-hand-washing-which-more-effective-against-coronavirus-covid-19) that you do NOT use hand sanitizer for a number of reasons. Instead, wash your hands effectively for 20 seconds, about the time it takes to sing "Happy Birthday." No waste, easier on your skin, works better, doesn't chap your hands so that you actually have a greater chance to catch something through irritated skin.

[frazzled]

18. The problem is that sometimes you do not have access to a bathroom or sink

right away. Say you are taking the bus or train to a meeting, have to stop at the post office first and drugstore first and then ... you get the picture. Because people inadvertently touch their face, isn’t it better to take the intermediate caution of hand sanitizer until you can get to a real sink? That is what is being recommended by most of the authorities here.

Besides, public restrooms are often hideously unsanitary.

[hlthe2b]

19. On this one aspect, I agree. Thorough handwashing is effective & in many cases BETTER

than drying alcohol-based sanitizers or antibacterial containing rinses. I agree totally. The drying damage to the epidermis is no small thing and predisposes to MRSA infection and other complications especially in the health care setting. But, while out and about, carrying hand sanitizers is a realistic alternative to reducing contamination. Should it be relied on for environmental decontamination alone? No. But left in contact for 20 minutes or more (allowed to dry on hands totally) it DOES reduce viral load and bacteria counts. 99% as Purell wants to claim? Hell no.

Again I've long argued soap and water's mechanical effects are more important ultimately. And I certainly don't advocate for triclosan which has even more issues. Unfortunately, even health care workers are bad about ineffective hand-washing and could benefit from some reminders:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213036276

[PasadenaTrudy]

20. Can't you read? n/t

[Kaleva]

29. CDC, WHO, Mayo Clinic say otherwise.

[Jirel]

32. LOL, no.

They very mildly support hand sanitizer... as maybe better than nothing... on some organisms... under some circumstances... with lots of warnings about how it’s not effective a lot of the time.

So hey, if you want to call that a recommendation, knock yourself out.

[Kaleva]

33. From the Mayo Clinic

"Alcohol-based hand sanitizer works just as well as soap and water for cleaning your hands, as long as your hands aren’t visibly dirty. For example, if you’ve been gardening or working on a motor vehicle, then you do need soap and water. For most other situations, hand sanitizer is fine.

Put about a quarter-sized amount of the sanitizer on your hands and work it in, covering all the surfaces. When the alcohol is dry, which takes about 15 to 20 seconds, your hands are clean. If you’re cleaning your hands quite often during the day, hand sanitizer may actually be a better choice than soap and water because the sanitizers usually have moisturizers added to them, so they tend to be gentler on your hands than soap and water."

https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-q-and-a-keeping-hands-consistently-clean-one-of-the-best-ways-to-avoid-getting-sick/

A ink to the CDC about hand sanitizer

https://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/pdf/hand-sanitizer-factsheet.pdf

[Jirel]

35. From the CDC - Often Not Effective.

https://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/show-me-the-science-hand-sanitizer.html

The CDC, Mayo, and others will put out materials for basic consumers that urge using hand sanitizers versus nothing. That doesn’t mean they say it’s useful against lots of pathogens or in all circumstances. You have to read further than the shopping mall version of the PSA.

[Kaleva]

36. Washing hands isn't effective unless properly done either

From your link:

" But if soap and water are not available, using a hand sanitizer with at least 60% alcohol can help you avoid getting sick and spreading germs to others. "

https://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/show-me-the-science-hand-sanitizer.html

You stated that hand sanitizer is junk yet the sites that you provide links to say otherwise.

[sl8]

34. Have you timed yourself singing "Happy Birthday"?

CDC recommends singing it twice.

[Brother Buzz]

23. Crazy as it sounds, my Dollar Store in SOLANO County is chock full of it

The cashier at the check-out counter was actively pushing it; she had a stack of it parked behind her. The irony that it was manufactured in China somehow amused me.

I passed on it, mostly because I'm one of those old school hand washer kind of guy. That, and my wife just made a concoction, using her old nursing school recipe.



She's also working on another idea that may have merit:

3-in-One Vodka and crushed garlic

You can use it as a hand sanitizer, a gargle, and diluted, as a neti-pot nasal rinse

It might also serve as a personal space barrier, which is a HUGE plus.

[Historic NY]

31. Mommie and Daddie must have some high end vodka...

stashed, remember the real good stuff.