Mueller is looking more and more as a less than courageous figure.

[edhopper]

Last edited Wed Feb 12, 2020, 10:50 AM - Edit history (1)

As we see what kind of fascist Barr is, and how he has completely corrupted the DOJ, Mueller in unquestionably following the directions of this "mob lawyer", has not been an example of a Profile in Courage. He could have told us so much more and not spared Trump the way he did.

IMHO

[hlthe2b]

1. I think this may signal Mueller's reticent testimony and halting delivery, along with

attempts by DOJ to have other attorneys involved testify alongside or instead of Mueller, may well suggest he's suffering onset of dementia or related health issues.

I'm not ready to throw Mueller to the wolves. His long history of honorable service does, I believe give us reason to wait for the true answers before we wrrite his ultimate assessment.

[htuttle]

2. I've had that same thought

For the same reasons.

[get the red out]

30. Me too!

And I said so online a couple of times after the report came out and Muller had not even said directly that Trump committed crimes because “a sitting President can’t be indicted”. I got slammed too!

[bluestarone]

5. Wondering if maybe this was the reason Rod Rosenstein picked him?

Take advantage of his possible health problem? Also wonder why ALL of his (Mueller's) people were not brought before the House for testimony? Seems strange to me.

[Scarsdale]

17. Something happened.

I remember very early in the Mueller investigation one of the lawyers told someone "This s-o-b (meaning tRump) is going to prison" Immediately after the investigation began, they discovered damaging evidence. Too bad, after all the work and effort that went into that it was kept under wraps by Barr. The taxpayers need to read the entire, unredacted report that they paid for. The hidden transcript of that "perfect phone call" should be released, too.

[Moostache]

76. Neither the Mueller Probe nor the Impeachment "Trial" were actually completed...yet.

History will unveil all in due time, but for now, Donnie 2 Scoops sails around with Billy Barr and the GOP Senate defilers on the vengeance and petty grievances tour.

Fine.

I LOVE the fact that this shit still eats at his soul so clearly.

He can NEVER make it all go away.
He will NEVER have his impeachment expunged or have history forget that he is IMPOTUS#3 (4-LIFE PLAYA!!)
He will NEVER gain international respect or reverence because he is a shithead who pisses off everyone with a brain.
NEVER.

He will ALWAYS be less of a man than Barack Obama.
He will ALWAYS be less of a president than any of his 44 predecessors.
He will ALWAYS be a crass, nouveau riche, shit head from Queens with an ill-tempered dad who NEVER loved him.
ALWAYS.

Fuck Donald Trump, his whore wife, his asshat kids (except for Tiffany and Baron, who are not even in the same league as the other 3 and their 'significant others' / ex-wives / slut-of-the-moment rentals).

May they all die in agony and be forgotten from polite company before their bodies get cold.

[bucolic_frolic]

19. Rosenstein's been around a long time

Long enough to know there's a lot that can't be revealed for one reason or another. There is never a full airing. A competent, well respected special prosecutor knows a lot but steps lightly.

Lots of things are hushed up. There are still books being published about world war II that reveal new information on the principles and their motives. I'm thinking of the FDR trilogy by Nigel Hamilton. From diaries, records, conversations, events he is deep inside the minds that made the times. Churchill was as much interested in preserving the British Empire as in winning the war. FDR thought self-determination inside a U.N. the basis for long term peace. Churchill was regarded by even his own commanders as a terrible strategist because of his southern European disasters and focus on the Balkans. You'd never know this in the 1960s after Churchill's autobiography. History was about the events for the most part until about 20 years ago. Now, more is coming out, some from USSR records now released.

[exboyfil]

78. Short of info regarding sources and methods

The next administration should dump everything , and even time it to be the most damaging. It is not like his courage and charisma helped win a war. I would shove it up National Review and other conservative's asses.

[soldierant]

88. I always thought Churchill's strong point was pep talks,

to put it informally. Here are some quotes from one of his most famous speeches, interspersed with photos which make it into a parody, and I still find it inspiring:

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/1/31/1915353/-PWB-Friday-Night-Open-Thread-We-Shall-Go-On-to-the-End

[DENVERPOPS]

28. It's a wonder

that he didn't suffer from an aneurism while he was investigating Trumps absolute corruption.

He didn't look that great mentally during his testimony.......

During his "softball" discussion on the atrocities "Trump" committed, I got the distinct feeling that he wanted desperately to take down Trump, but was soft pedaling everything, so as to not take down his beloved Republican party..........??????????

[tanyev]

10. Something that jumped out at me while reading A Very Stable Genius

were a couple mentions of Trump’s team trying to meet with Mueller to hash out Trump’s possible testimony (ha!) or the written questions. They were always met by people directly under Mueller. When they demanded to speak to Mueller personally they were told the lieutenants (sorry, forget their names) had full authority to handle the matter. Hmm, I thought to myself. I wonder about a health issue, too.

[hlthe2b]

12. Yes.. I noted that too in the book...

He hired among the best prosecutors/investigators out there so it makes sense they'd close ranks and protect him--believing it did not impact the investigation.

[bluestarone]

33. Those Lieutenants!!

Why were they NEVER called in to testify before the House? That's what i'm wondering!

[PatSeg]

15. I just read about Mueller

in the book "A Very Stable Genius" and I think I have a better overall picture of him and the investigation. It appears that in spite of his abilities and integrity, he may have been the wrong man for this particular time and this situation. It seems that even Barr was surprised that Mueller was reluctant to say Trump had committed criminal offenses. Mueller was going to leave it up to congress and/or the Attorney General to make that decision.

Also there was mention that Mueller's health might be declining.

[Locrian]

24. I'll have to check that book out...

I think he was a cog in a machine that was in a "new game".
And he didn't know how to think outside of that framework.

When it came time for extraordinary courage and sacrifice - he was the "solid and stable" version of someone expecting the "system" to still be functional and he could just follow bureaucratic procedure.

[MontanaMama]

36. Well said.

The game has definitely changed. The “system” has taken on water...we have yet to see if it will stay afloat.

[PatSeg]

51. Oh yes

That is how I took it from what I read. You just said it better than I could.

I recommend the book, as it gives an overall picture of the Trump presidency, instead of just bits and pieces. It is far more alarming when you see it as a whole. I found myself saying numerous times, "He is insane". He's not just stupid, reactive, and incompetent, I think he is crazy.

[brush]

31. It was obvious Muellar was not the Mueller from earlier years.

[riverwalker]

40. I watched videos of younger Mueller

He was amazing. I was astonished at the change at his testimony. It wasn’t just being a few years older, it was drastic. Rosenstein had to know, and I think its WHY they chose him. To take advantage of his vulnerability.

[brush]

50. Yep, Rosenstein had to know. No repug can be trusted. I remember Rosestein standing faithfully...

behind Barr as he presented his dishonest summary of the Muellar Report.

[live love laugh]

3. Never trust a Republican. nt

[Cosmocat]

4. T H I S

He soft balled it cause it was an R/he knew where all of this was heading anyways.

These assholes spent the entirety of the 90s completely up Bill Clintons ass, and for all their digging the best they could do was impeach him for lying about a blowjob.

These assholes spent the entirety of their time in power in congress the last 6 years of BHO's tenure doing little else than working to destroy Hillary over wildly overblown incidents with Benghazi (which happened in some form or so times under W) and e-mails (which most of them are flagrently doing the same now).

Now ... they at best enabling and more so than not full on cheering a coup and the destruction of our once great American democracy.

[live love laugh]

58. Yes and don't forget they spent 8 more years trying to w Obama

RepubLIEcons are despicable.

[mazzarro]

63. Yes indeed - no doubt about that.

[mazzarro]

69. I strongly concur with you completely.

Mueller knew what would happen as he carefully balanced the investigation for reThuglicans to knock down bearing in mind that reThugs have no shame or qualms about being nasty and unruly.

[live love laugh]

89. Agreed and he chose the most ambiguous language to muddy

the ability of many to understand his findings.

[AtheistCrusader]

20. This may have more historical precedent than you thought.

Abraham Lincoln was, at least publicly, more interested in preserving the union than freeing slaves, at least at first.

RMueller was more interested in preserving the institutions/dignity/America(TM) than getting the job done (ousting a fascist tyrant).
In fairness, he was trying to do it 'by the book' under the oversight of said tyrant's pet: Barr.

[Liberalhammer]

85. He failed

Now we have king Trump.

[mazzarro]

62. B-I-N-G-O! Especially one that has been cog of the party all along.

[Liberalhammer]

84. Yes exactly

[Generic Brad]

6. Mueller was our fantasy

We so desperately wanted justice that we collectively imagined him as something he was not. Our bad.

[Merlot]

29. It wasn't just "our bad"

It was fed to us by media and democrats who wanted to placate us while they (dems) had no actual power.

[brush]

35. Exactly. Sadly, we put too much hope in him.

[dhol82]

41. Sorry, I kept saying I hoped it wasn't going to another Fitzmas

Had hope but, more importantly, realistic expectations.

[live love laugh]

59. Just like Bolton was a fantasy. RepubLIEcons are the LAST people to trust.. nt

[Generic Brad]

60. You've got that right

It's starting to feel as though we're past the point of no return.

[live love laugh]

64. I hope at least the pattern is more obvious--of dangling these false RepubLIEcon "saviors"

out to those among us who seem blinded by desperation.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

7. The sooner people grasp that there isn't a savior, ever, the better off they'll be.

[empedocles]

48. That is the reality check

[kentuck]

8. I think there may have been health issues with Mr Mueller.

Mental issues of some manner?

[Johonny]

9. That's the rumor.

It's also rumored his staff was not happy with him for not fighting Barr harder.

[PA Democrat]

54. In the book A Very Stable Genius

I came away with the impression that people inside the Trump defense team thought as much. In high level meetings between Trump's legal team and Mueller's team, Mueller was either absent or largely silent.

[blakstoneranger]

11. I DON'T BLAME MUELLER

I'd stay out of this garbage too! Look at what's going on. These people are acting like the law doesn't apply to them. It's like we're all waiting around for some martin luther king to show up and win the day---WONT HAPPEN. This is 1930 Germany all over again. Nobody thought hitler was serious, they thought he would just go away after awhile---HE DIDN'T. He was supported by a bunch of sad, pathetic, hate-filled men who pushed hitler to do what they wanted--they enabled him. And in the meantime, the jewish community just kept doing what they normally do--work--figuring that it would all blow over---it didn't--at least not until over 5 million of them died needlessly. AND NOBODY SAID ANYTHING BECAUSE HITLER WENT AFTER ALL OF HIS ENEMIES BIG AND SMALL. If someone reported to the Gestapo that the local baker in some tiny hamlet criticized hitler at the dinner table--they would place him under arrest and then kill him. Now here we go again, doing what republicans do--repeating bad history. So what do they expect mueller to do, stop it? Trump's dumba*s supporters are so wrapped up in his bullsh*t they don't care what he does as long as he does it. What is mueller supposed to do that will make any difference? He told us the man is a criminal and they still support him. Trumps supporters will turn on anybody who says anything about trump and foxnews and rush limpbaugh will help them do it. He's old, he has a family, and he want's to live a long healthy life. This can't happen messing around with this dumba*s president. I don't blame him there's no reason to be courageous, a hero aint nothing but a sandwich!

WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW THIS JACKA*S IS GOING TO CHEAT HIS WAY BACK INTO THE WHITE HOUSE!!! BECAUSE HE IS GOING TO CHEAT...THEY'RE NOT DOING ALL THIS CRAP FOR NOTHING. THEY'RE CHEATING!!

[joost5]

39. +1 They're projecting how they're going to cheat.

It's pretty obvious that Dems know it too. 3 election security bills were turned down by the corrupt GOP senate. They plan on using the Ukraine/Benghazi playbook, tell the lie, repeat the lie - doesn't matter if it's true, repeat often, muddy the facts.
"Everyone is corrupt so at least the stock market is OK, guns, religion, and whites are in power." These guys aren't going to play by the book. They are going to fight bare knuckles dirty and not care one bit about going against "tradition and norms" in public institutions... heck, they have demonstrated that they don't care about preserving the laws and are actively covering crimes up.

It's a nice Republic, if we can keep it.

[MASW]

13. I woke up this morning with this very thought.

It really seems like Mueller could have spoken up and told America what was going on. He was pathetic. Maybe we were wrong for thinking he'd be a savior...but on the other hand, he did know something close to the truth of what all went down with the 2016 election. Sigh. I think this is one of the most unnerving aspects of this whole mess: how cowardly and irresponsible our so-called "leadership" is. Not the Dems of course, who have proven to be the opposite. But I thought there might be just a few republicans who actually cared about America and democracy.

[exboyfil]

79. His plea bargains were going no where

He traded substantive crimes for admissions to crimes related to the investigation. He also was getting little for those pleas. I thought early on the fix was in, and I still think it.

[BlueJac]

14. Zero Republican will stand up to Trump except Mitt!

Cowards, I am glad they are not in our military now!

[AtheistCrusader]

21. Even Mitt made a 50% show of token support.

He only voted on one article, and he knew no one would follow him.

I appreciate the gesture, but that's all it was.

[redstateblues]

56. Voting on both would not have made any difference to Trump

Any deviation from complete obedience will be met with personal destruction

[AtheistCrusader]

67. I don't mean to sound completely ungrateful, it did poke Trump in the eye.

It's worth it from that standpoint.

[Celerity]

43. Amash nt

[bucolic_frolic]

16. Conflicting goals

His hands were tied, he was charged with investigating, the scope was unclear at the outset, GOP political backlash hindered every turn, a lot of it was foreign, and it's not like we have an MI-6. Good detectives have knowledge of all quarters, I think Mueller did not start from a strong basis but I don't know who would.

On another observation, hard-charging investigations are rarely led by older and wiser men.

[Texin]

27. I agree. I think he knew which way the winds were blowing, i.e., U.S. Senate.

And, of course, the existing DOJ *guidelines* that decree (a sitting POTUS cannot be charged in a criminal offense while in office).

Mueller oversaw the inquiry in much the same manner five star generals conduct wars: delegation to battle-tested officers in the field of battle. They provide oversight and direction in general, but the specifics within the wartime arena are left up to the actual fighters and commanders on the ground or in the air or on the seas.

I don't believe he was allowed to complete the investigation. It was foreshortened by Barr, who directed Rosenstein to shut it down and to shut Mueller down. That's what happened. Barr took the compiled "report" and the relevant documents, deep-six-ed them and penned his own *version* of events. Mueller's testimony before Congress was muted to conform to Barr's DOJ report. He non-theatrically stated that the DOJ *guidelines on a sitting-POTUS* precluded him stating that he had discovered and documented evidence of tRump's criminal activities, but was precluded from making that pronouncement because he would be making an accusation that could not be adjudicated in a criminal proceeding within the parameters defined by the DOJ.

[mjvpi]

91. Bingo

I believe that the first thing Barr did was to tell him to wrap it up. When you see the list of people who were never even brought before the grand jury, it’s stunning. An incomplete investigation. He played by the rules and believed in the process. He wasn’t smart enough to see that the process, with Barr coming in, was falling apart.

[Pepsidog]

18. Republicans are so courageous when picking on women and kids.

Mueller was just such a disappointment. He danced around Trump’s criminality when he could have confronted it unambiguously.

[nevergiveup]

22. Ain't that the truth.

His legacy will always to some extent be tainted with a Profile in Cowardice.

[AverageJoe]

23. Mueller could have been a hero. He chose otherwise.

I don’t pretend to understand his motives, but for one reason or another, he decided it was not his job to save America from trump. Just another Republican following orders, I suppose.

[Locrian]

26. I thinkk the reality is ...

that he was just "average" bureaucrat.
In a "system" that rewarded that type for person for going "by the book" and "playing the game" / respecting the office, etc.

He's not a maverick - he just wasn't hired for that nor was his career.

We wanted him to be something he just wasn't.

[AverageJoe]

45. Sounds about right

Just another functionary.

[exboyfil]

80. He got his law practice up and running again

Right after leaving the SP job. Seriously how much fu---ing money did he need. Some Elliot Ness. You got far more commitment from $20k/yr. Teachers.

[jalan48]

25. What if there had been an investigator who could have brought Hitler down before he ever became

so powerful? An investigator who had access to information no one else had like Hitler's incriminating personal financial records? And that investigator, when the time came to take Hitler down backed off and cited an obscure "memo" as his reason for not doing so. A memo that stated Hitler could not be indicted for any offense while he was in office. Would history look favorably upon that investigator? Would the public acclaim if it hadn't been for that memo we could have stopped Hitler?

[BlueIdaho]

32. When it was time to tell truth to power...

He blinked.

[zentrum]

34. Same with Bolton.

Big blustery "Patriot" who should have have stepped up and testified.

[Baked Potato]

37. I think Mueller's role was to uncover crimes so another authority can dispose them.

I think Mueller was used to dig up all the dirt so it could be compartmentalized for disposition. This disposition could be:

Destroyed
Watered-down
Redacted
Changed
Used for blackmail
Used for bribes

Sad state of affairs.

[Alpeduez21]

38. Another way to phrase it

Is he looks more and more like a repuke. Never forgive and never forget what repukes chose for America. Get out the vote. Vote blue no matter who in EVERY election

[ChiTownDenny]

42. +1

Yup! Expressed the same sentiments since his "sleepy" testimony.

[Ilsa]

44. I'm guessing he doesn't want trump harassing his

grown daughters or their families.

[JoeOtterbein]

46. We where wrong to expect a Repub (of any stripe) to do a...

...good job.

[Vinca]

47. I just finished the chapter in "A Very Stable Genius" about the Mueller report and I now think

more than ever that Mueller was not up to the job. Other lawyers working with him strongly objected to the wording in his final report that wasn't even a slap on the wrist for Dear Leader. They also mentioned a suspicion of health issues around Mueller which might account for his crazy statement that it was unconstitutional to indict a sitting president.

[czarjak]

49. Cheat, call it winning, brag about it?

[COLGATE4]

52. In assessing Mueller's less than stellar performance

you have to take into account these factors:

1- He's a lifelong Republican
2- He's an intimate friend of Barr's. The wives go to church school together.
3=He's a strictly "by the book" kind of guy who does not question superior authority, no matter.

Given that, his letdown with the 'investigation' wasn't a total surprise.

[Nature Man]

53. He's a republican

eom.

[samplegirl]

55. I think someone got to Mueller

who knows what they threatened him with!

[Hearthrob]

57. Another view

1. The dems threw him to the wind for the testimony-nothing was set up to help him even to know what pages the dems had set up for questioning, having no knowledge or help in the location of who was questioning him-having to look around helplessly.
2. Remember that he didn't do the report of what??a thousand pages. As I recall the guy in charge of this was sitting behind him and was not allowed to testify?
3. Having to read thru and respond to slides or monitor as questions were quickly thrown at him at the same time as the slide appeared and then has to respond to a questioner- location unknown. Sure would make many of us discombobulated.
4.His and his families safety. Who would give their own opinion to an Al Capone court. Opinions were not acceptable-just the facts. And it was congresses job to judge facts. They had the cover to hide in their numbers. And who in any case has heard that an opinion convicts.
5. The SOB AG,his 'boss' had been lying since appointed. Thousands of people who could have had his back did nothing. Who's the coward?
6. The stress of having to save democracy took its toll in his physical appearance and demeanor. He was visibly exhausted. Maybe he correctly assumed
that it would consume him. Maybe that's why he didn't want to do any of this. And gee, so many people volunteered to pass the buck.
7. And after all this crap he was pilloried for trying to save our sorry asses.

[ramen]

61. Hang on, we are throwing Mueller under the bus now?

For Barr's gross corruption?

[edhopper]

66. No

for not coming forward about Barr's corruption.

[LessAspin]

65. Merry Fitzmas

A little reminiscent of how so many got their hopes up about Patrick Fitzgerald holding Dick Cheney accountable.

Clearly looking back on it that was never in play. Libby what's his face served as the fall guy

[live love laugh]

90. Yup nt

[Proud Liberal Dem]

68. slightly OT

but if anybody remembers when, in 2017, Congressional Intelligence Committee members were shown/exposed to certain information and came out looking shell-shocked, I'm still hella curious what THAT was all about.

[edhopper]

70. The were shown that Trump is controlledby the Kremlin.

GOP don't give a shit.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

71. But we do

Wondering why we can't/haven't acted on it?

[shanti]

72. They are FRIENDS

How could anyone think Mueller would do otherwise?

[krissey]

73. I never bought into that. Nor Comney, or Kelly.

[Karma13612]

74. I know, but what can we do about it now?

We keep hoping for more whistle blowers and more leaks.

How do we get back our normalcy if Trump wins?

Well and truly scared.

[edhopper]

75. Hope the American voters

WAKE THE FUCK UP!!

[Karma13612]

96. I hear ya! nt

[Kurt V.]

77. I'm confused. when did ever look like a courageous figure?

[UniteFightBack]

81. They knew exactly who to pick and how Mueller would react. THEY KNEW. nt

[Dopers_Greed]

82. He could have gone down in history as a hero

But instead decided to meekly follow the letter of the law.

[Liberalhammer]

83. I agree

His entire purpose was to save the Republican party.

He's a typical Republican. 99% will betray their country for power.

[Azathoth]

86. Mueller is an establishment Republican and a possible early dementia case

He was never going to be the hero America needed.

[Dorian Gray]

87. Yeah....

you're right. sigh.

[Cetacea]

92. And what of the bulk of his team?

Mostly democrats. Cowards?

To trash Mueller on the same day that Trump is trashing him is...interesting.

There were many things that happened that Mueller had absolutely no control over. (like having him testify a few days before congress took a six week vacation....)

He summed up his testimony by saying that Russia is attacking us "even as we sit here", and that it is "something every American should be alarmed about". Is anyone doing anything about that?

Did anyone go after Trump for the ten counts of obstruction that were outlined in his report?

And did he not report that he was lied to and obstructed every step of the way?

Barr was called in to clean up the Iran/Contra mess and he performed the same function in the Russia debacle. That is where the blame should be. A week after he took over it was announced that Mueller was ending the investigation.

We still haven't seen the report. His fault?

A complicit "liberal media" echoed GOP narrative that his investigation was going on for too long (two years as opposed to six+ that Ken Starr had, and Starr had far more sweeping powers)

Who wrote the Special Counsel rules? Who endorsed them?

And yes, he did appear to be a shadow of his former self. Perhaps some empathy is in order.

[edhopper]

95. You have made

some good points.

Especially the last.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

93. I still find Mueller to be an admirable and honorable figure.

The problem was, he was a very “by the book” person sent to investigate people who were most definitely not “by the book” and his efforts were inevitably frustrated because of it.

But his report is far more damning than most people think or want to admit.

[StarfishSaver]

94. "his report is far more damning than most people think or want to admit"

Most people I've encountered who criticize Mueller have never actually read his report.

[ElementaryPenguin]

97. One of the biggest let-downs in history!!! I wish he was like De Niro played him!!!