General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTrump won't step down if he loses
Who is going to make him?
He controls the judiciary, Barr controls the FBI.
He certainly controls the NSA and maybe even the CIA.
He controls the Senate so if Dems win back the Senate will he nullify those elections?
The decent military generals and leaders have resigned.
Who is going to stop him from declaring the election was rigged? He could even declare martial law and I have no doubt it would be enforced.
He has talked several times about going beyond his term limits. He is telling us what he plans to do.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)This is a vindictive and spiteful person with the power of the government at his fingertips.
CrispyQ
(36,478 posts)I don't think anyone does. I think too many suffer from "it can't happen here" even as it's happening before our eyes.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I just can't say what it is.
Norbert
(6,040 posts)The will of the majority will not be denied any longer than that.
LonePirate
(13,426 posts)mitch96
(13,912 posts)And escorting the Old/Vintage/Legacy official out the door...
m
The Secret Service takes their job very seriously.
mitch96
(13,912 posts)If we get a new improved prez that is duly elected by the people of the United States, I hope the
Secret Svs will do their jobs...
And as a aside we better win by large margin in Nov b/c if not the orange shit stain is gonna spin it around, call the election "illegal" or tampered with and refuse to leave..
YMMV
m
tosh
(4,423 posts)for if he steals/rigs & appears to win this election. I also do not think that I want to talk openly about it.
I've been having moments of needing some sense of reassurance and this is not a feeling that I've ever really had before.
trueblue2007
(17,228 posts)trueblue2007
(17,228 posts)Newest Reality
(12,712 posts)Beware the thought police.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Arthur_Frain
(1,853 posts)nt
bdamomma
(63,875 posts)I read your post... ..Plan B. hmmm....
TheBlackAdder
(28,209 posts)dustyscamp
(2,224 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)OhZone
(3,212 posts)dalton99a
(81,516 posts)Rider3
(919 posts)I never thought he'd give up the presidency willingly. That's not his style.
mdbl
(4,973 posts)but of course they are way too stupid to realize it.
maxrandb
(15,334 posts)Dems need to use the power we do have to cut the ever loving fuck out all the funding of the government that they can.
I'd begin by setting all presidential appointees salaries to $1 per year.
We need to wake up. The Retrumplicans, including very senior senators and representatives are going to go to fucking prison when the truth comes out. The only way the truth does not come out, and we don't convene our own version of the Nuremberg trials, is if a new Democratic President is not elected.
The next president will have the power and authority to release the papertrail... and there's tons of paper to bury these criminals.
Think about it. Think of the asspickle criminals in his cabinet. There's paperwork hanging around in desk drawers and computers that will send these folks to jail. That paperwork also implicates a shit ton of senior Retrumplican politicians.
They will fucking murder people in the streets to prevent that.
These are not normal times. We need to stop pretending that they are.
mdbl
(4,973 posts)the the new president doesn't pull an Obama and just look the other way. I hope the dems have learned that lesson.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)...in the US.
There isn't.
bearsfootball516
(6,377 posts)Which is unfortunate. Were smarter than that.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)a lot of these stupid posts are from people who are NOT really Democrats, they just say they are so the can stir things up here!
gab13by13
(21,360 posts)I bet I have done more for the Democratic party over my life time than my accusers here have done. I have held office in a Republican town. Fuck it, I don't need to defend myself, I hope the hell I am wrong but it isn't melodramatic on my part when I see our institutions being taken over by Trump.
dware
(12,399 posts)I gotta just shake my head in disbelief when I read threads like these, they are really, really dumb.
First Speaker
(4,858 posts)No, I don't think he can unleash martial law at will. But if he simply *wants* to--and if he loses, he will--we are in deep shit. Too many people here at DU underestimate the potential for chaos when he loses this November. All our national chickens--conspiracy theories, the radicalization of the GOP, the slow crumbling of the spirit of liberal democracy, vote suppression, racism, 400,000,000 guns at large--will be coming home to roost. The time between the election and January 20, 2021, is going to be the most dangerous period, constitutionally, since 1876.
Skittles
(153,169 posts)Celerity
(43,415 posts)https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/01/presidential-emergency-powers/576418/
snip
But will they? Unknown to most Americans, a parallel legal regime allows the president to sidestep many of the constraints that normally apply. The moment the president declares a national emergencya decision that is entirely within his discretionmore than 100 special provisions become available to him. While many of these tee up reasonable responses to genuine emergencies, some appear dangerously suited to a leader bent on amassing or retaining power. For instance, the president can, with the flick of his pen, activate laws allowing him to shut down many kinds of electronic communications inside the United States or freeze Americans bank accounts. Other powers are available even without a declaration of emergency, including laws that allow the president to deploy troops inside the country to subdue domestic unrest.
This edifice of extraordinary powers has historically rested on the assumption that the president will act in the countrys best interest when using them. With a handful of noteworthy exceptions, this assumption has held up. But what if a president, backed into a corner and facing electoral defeat or impeachment, were to declare an emergency for the sake of holding on to power? In that scenario, our laws and institutions might not save us from a presidential power grab. They might be what takes us down.
1. A LOADED WEAPON
The premise underlying emergency powers is simple: The governments ordinary powers might be insufficient in a crisis, and amending the law to provide greater ones might be too slow and cumbersome. Emergency powers are meant to give the government a temporary boost until the emergency passes or there is time to change the law through normal legislative processes. Unlike the modern constitutions of many other countries, which specify when and how a state of emergency may be declared and which rights may be suspended, the U.S. Constitution itself includes no comprehensive separate regime for emergencies. Those few powers it does contain for dealing with certain urgent threats, it assigns to Congress, not the president. For instance, it lets Congress suspend the writ of habeas corpusthat is, allow government officials to imprison people without judicial reviewwhen in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it and provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.
Nonetheless, some legal scholars believe that the Constitution gives the president inherent emergency powers by making him commander in chief of the armed forces, or by vesting in him a broad, undefined executive Power. At key points in American history, presidents have cited inherent constitutional powers when taking drastic actions that were not authorizedor, in some cases, were explicitly prohibitedby Congress. Notorious examples include Franklin D. Roosevelts internment of U.S. citizens and residents of Japanese descent during World War II and George W. Bushs programs of warrantless wiretapping and torture after the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Abraham Lincoln conceded that his unilateral suspension of habeas corpus during the Civil War was constitutionally questionable, but defended it as necessary to preserve the Union.
The Supreme Court has often upheld such actions or found ways to avoid reviewing them, at least while the crisis was in progress. Rulings such as Youngstown Sheet & Tube Company v. Sawyer, in which the Court invalidated President Harry Trumans bid to take over steel mills during the Korean War, have been the exception. And while those exceptions have outlined important limiting principles, the outer boundary of the presidents constitutional authority during emergencies remains poorly defined.
snip
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Nothing you core even remotely approaches extending the term of office.
Celerity
(43,415 posts)drmeow
(5,020 posts)Volaris
(10,272 posts)The secret service no longer takes orders from him, but from whoever Congress HAS certified.
Unless there are some people willing to stand in their way with loaded weapons, yes I think it would be the Service that would remove him from the building.
drmeow
(5,020 posts)Try to stand in their way with loaded weapons it won't stop the Secret Service - they are bad asses and take their oath to the OFFICE of the President very seriously.
Volaris
(10,272 posts)Aristus
(66,388 posts)in the history of the world?
I like our chances...
malaise
(269,054 posts)or they'll drag him out - sometimes I wonder how the USA got the line home of the brave - the Con is going down
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)He envisioned previous presidents (he named Obama and George W) coming together with Chief Justice Roberts to sort of regain control of events that were spinning out of control.
It sounded appealing but it's rather odd to think about.
Bettie
(16,110 posts)he will always side with Trump. Always.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)of enough of the People that it wouldn't be possible. There would be a demand for him to get out. The political will isn't there and his base isn't big enough. The population seems dumbed down, but the idea of a dictator and total abandonment of the Constitution will not play at all.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,624 posts)Other than frivolous lawsuits, Trump has no power over the electoral college, or the certification of the results. Unless we have another nail biting cliffhanger like Bush v Gore, the results will be certified, and Roberts (or any judge) will swear in the new president.
There is no legal way a president can nullify an election by edict.
Yes, he will make a fuss, and try his best to cling to power (the lame duck transition period will be especially risky), but if he loses, he is gone.
Feel free to detail the evidence based details of how Trump would block a new president from taking office- martial law is not one of them.
Mosby
(16,319 posts)Trump fills the White House with crazy gun toting supporters like the proud boys etc.
Then the SS will be faced with the prospect of shooting americans (with cameras rolling).
In the meantime all the crazy (literally) trump supporters will decend on washington to prevent a perceived coup.
Meanwhile all the crazy hate radio freaks will create a conspiracy theory about the election, using Soros and others as the villain to create a narrative that proves they the election was rigged, by the NWO people.
All the chickenshits in Congress won't know what to do, because we can't allow a civil war, or a war on the white house, so they will "work to find a compromise".
Done.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,624 posts)The SS would not allow crazy gun toting supporters anywhere near the White House.
If Trump refused to physically leave the White House, the new president would still be sworn in, and the new president would order the SS and US Marshalls to physically remove him. No cameras would be rolling inside the residence.
All the crazies could descend on DC, and the RW media hate machine could go into overdrive, it still wouldnt stop a new president from taking office - did they stop Obama?
Done.
Mosby
(16,319 posts)I'm speculating.
Maybe you should read up on the bonus army and how it destroyed president hoover.
People don't like it when americans are shot at by the government.
Keep in mind that a full third of Americans think the MSM is lying to them all the time and consider trump to be doing God's work.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,624 posts)So what was your point?
Waco and Ruby Ridge didnt cause a revolution either.
Trumpsters might cause a ruckus, but they wont stop the transfer of power.
sarisataka
(18,663 posts)Evaluations that RW gun toters are overweight cowards who would drop their guns and flee if a firecracker went off? And even if they did stand up to fight, the army would mop them up in an afternoon with tanks and drones.
Now they are effective enough to occupy the White House and all of DC unopposed? They will force the government to back down like Mussolini's march on Rome?
That doesn't add up.
Mosby
(16,319 posts)The republicans in Congress and/or the scotus will intervene.
That's why it could work.
Could, I'm just speculating.
sarisataka
(18,663 posts)On Americans, at least that was the previous prediction many made. I tend to agree with you that the military wouldn't, though I am not so sure about the SS if armed people tried to get into the White House.
I cannot vision enough radical Trump supporters making the trip to DC. Even if they did and managed to take over the White House with Trump, Congress and SCOTUS don't have to do anything. They simply swear in the new President who then orders Federal Leo's to arrest the trespassers. A siege ensues but it won't be long before they have to surrender due to lack of food.
The building is a dwelling, it doesn't give the occupants any special authority. Would such a scenario be embarrassing? Yes, but it would not stop the transfer of power.
Mosby
(16,319 posts)I honestly think it might come to this, ffs these people have lost their minds and we shouldn't underestimate them.
That's really all I'm saying.
Jose Garcia
(2,598 posts)He could barricade himself in there, but the new President would still have all presidential powers.
Mosby
(16,319 posts)But Republicans are basically evil and stupid, which is why my conjecture sounds so implausible.
a republican filed a complaint today against Pelosi for violating the gov record retention schedule when she tore up trump's speech. The complaint only makes sense to crazy people.
There are no rules anymore. They make up rules as they go.
ms liberty
(8,580 posts)To be in, have control, or possession of the White House in order to take or hold office.. On 1.20.21 at noon, the winner of the electoral college will become POTUS. If it is not Comrade Dumbass, the Presidentin' will occur elsewhere while the trash is removed and the building fumigated.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)about?
"Small dicked Cowards, & costumed morons" are gonna take over the white house, and all of Washington DC?!?
Never would have guessed it.
jayfish
(10,039 posts)working out for us over the last 5 years? Not that it's possible to prove a hypothetical but;...
The Alarming Scope of the President's Emergency Powers
It would be nice to think that America is protected from the worst excesses of Trumps impulses by its democratic laws and institutions. After all, Trump can do only so much without bumping up against the limits set by the Constitution and Congress and enforced by the courts. Those who see Trump as a threat to democracy comfort themselves with the belief that these limits will hold him in check.
But will they? Unknown to most Americans, a parallel legal regime allows the president to sidestep many of the constraints that normally apply. The moment the president declares a national emergencya decision that is entirely within his discretionmore than 100 special provisions become available to him. While many of these tee up reasonable responses to genuine emergencies, some appear dangerously suited to a leader bent on amassing or retaining power. For instance, the president can, with the flick of his pen, activate laws allowing him to shut down many kinds of electronic communications inside the United States or freeze Americans bank accounts. Other powers are available even without a declaration of emergency, including laws that allow the president to deploy troops inside the country to subdue domestic unrest.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,624 posts)Not even through the use of the Emergency Powers Act.
Aaron Pereira
(383 posts)Republicans threatened to send their EC delegates as a slate determined by the Florida legislature instead of the election outcome. Of course the Supreme Court would rule on the legality of that if Trump managed to convince Ohio or Florida to take an approach like that in 2020.
Doubt he'll succeed but it wouldn't surprise me to see him try.
sarisataka
(18,663 posts)To ignore the popular election results and send electors to vote for a different candidate, it would be perfectly legal in all but a handful of states. SCOTUS would not need to rule on it.
New Breed Leader
(624 posts)bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)"That will make for an awkward scene when Chasten and I are moving in!"
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)Theres not enough tangible material assets to hoard and fall back on with a scenario of total breakdown. He controls a lot, but he doesnt control those unseen powerful forces.
Drifter
(4,751 posts)as long as he takes away all of our rights for the good of the country.
Cheers
Drifter
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)obnoxiousdrunk
(2,910 posts)like these that make DU look dumb as ...
gab13by13
(21,360 posts)with that said, people laughed at Bill when he predicted that Trump was going to win. Bill also predicts that Trump will not concede the next election if he loses.
Why the hell is this a ridiculous post? Fucking look at the laws that Trump has broken and the precedence he has ignored and no one is stopping him now. Obamacare would be dead were it not for patriotic John McCain. Trump has violated and is still violating the emoluments clause of the Constitution. No one made him produce his taxes. He gave 1.5 trillion dollars to rich people with no expiration date while working class people's tax break expire in 2024. He strong armed the Fed to kick in another 2 trillion dollars just to keep the market soaring and he wants the Fed to contribute more. He is building his multi-billion dollar fence which will cost billions to maintain. He is in the courts right now working to kill pre-existing condition protections. He is cutting Medicaid and food stamps. He has spent more money in 1 year on Secret Service protection than president Obama spent in 8 years, but we don't know that for sure because he is holding up the release of that information. The NSA is sitting on documents that could have helped Schiff in the impeachment hearing, these are documents that Congress is entitled to see but Trump won't allow it.
I can go on, but laugh at me at your own peril because I see no one curbing Trump's abuses. Who has stopped Trump from doing as he pleases? Even the military couldn't stop Trump from doing as he pleased, the good people resigned, we have a lobbyist running the Defense department.
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,480 posts)As an asshole believe them and get away from them asap.
The abusing asshole sociopaths have been trying since we had a Constitution to kill our democracy .
dware
(12,399 posts)Just stop with this nonsense.
If the Mango Menace is voted out, he will leave, willingly or unwillingly.
budkin
(6,703 posts)It's going to be ugly.
mokawanis
(4,442 posts)He'll leave if he loses. Simple as that. He'll leave office and spend his days on twitter, screaming about the rigged election.
struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)See https://history.house.gov/Institution/Electoral-College/Electoral-College/
The House and Senate must agree, on any suggestion to put aside and not count any particular electoral votes
If no candidate receives a majority, the House decides (with one vote per state) who will be President
If we win the electoral college, The Don has no way forward
sarisataka
(18,663 posts)Jarqui
(10,126 posts)Rigging elections is what Trump does.
We've seen it with the evidence Mueller collected on Russia and we've seen irrefutable proof of it with Ukraine.
If Trump loses the 2020 election, there is a very good chance he'll die in jail because a bunch of what he's done will come out. He and his legal team and those implicated know that. It is a key part of the reason why they voted as they did.
Prepare yourself for the dirtiest election ever. Every dirty trick in the book and then some will occur. If he's losing, one of two things will occur:
1) he'll fly to where he cannot be extradited
2) or more likely, they'll stink up the count/results, etc making legal challenges and unlike Al Gore, not concede until they've dragged it out through the courts. And even then, they'll try to further poison the results.
When jail is the alternative, he's guaranteed to do something like that ... if they're unable to hack or steal the election before it comes to that.
Zolorp
(1,115 posts)He will.
jmowreader
(50,560 posts)The Constitution is very clear on this: The term of a president ends at noon on January 20 the year after the election, if the president was not reelected or has run out his eligibility. And there is absolutely no provision for a president to nullify any election.
Trump currently believes he is the only one who knows anything about the government. My prediction is, if Trump loses the election he and Pence will resign that night so as to throw the government into chaos. In reality, if Trump and Pence resign at the same time then Nancy Pelosi becomes president...my prediction is, she will appoint Hillary Clinton as Vice President, get her approved, then resign and go back to her own job, leaving Hillary as president. Hillary can make a couple phone calls and get President Obamas cabinet in there for a couple months until the new president is inaugurated.
mahina
(17,668 posts)His shit will be packed up and out the door and federal Marshalls will escort him off the property.
Even Barr has limits. Remember their big fight?
bobGandolf
(871 posts)I hope to god there are contingency plans ready if needed for that.
dware
(12,399 posts)then the Federal Marshal's would remove him, willingly or unwillingly.
onecaliberal
(32,864 posts)dware
(12,399 posts)whether willingly or unwillingly.
Runningdawg
(4,520 posts)He becomes the leader of the Great American Insurgency. The village will have their idiot more directly at the helm than ever before. I am sure the usual person will be along shortly to tell me I am full of it because the militia is only full of old overweight dudes.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,841 posts)Every. One.
I even entertained the idea myself with GHWB but I was young and naive then.
Runningdawg
(4,520 posts)Gidney N Cloyd
(19,841 posts)Runningdawg
(4,520 posts)First Speaker
(4,858 posts)...who is clearly a psychopath and an authoritarian, with no respect at all for constitutional norms. I don't know if he can "stay in power" if he loses. He certainly is capable of creating a massive constitutional crisis. If he loses, he *will*. Not may, will. The worst since 1876, at least. Even if he leaves at the end, the damage he can, and will, do to our constitutional processes is incalculable.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,841 posts)He'll go. And there may be violent trouble afterwards. Why not-- we have that now. But he'll go.
standingtall
(2,785 posts)Even if Trump refuses to leave the White House the new President will be sworn and will be the commander in cheif of the U.S. military and will order Trump removed if he wont leave willingly.
Even if hypothetically that all the republicans in Government conspire with Trump to stay in office and he loses an election. Blue States would not should not recognize the legitimacy of such a government. Then we would be talking a full blown civil war and there is more people against Trump then for him and those people on average are a lot younger than Trumps cult members.
blueinredohio
(6,797 posts)dware
(12,399 posts)the US Marshal's Service?
LastLiberal in PalmSprings
(12,586 posts)That's why he wants to take control of them away from the non-profit League of Women Voters and hire a commercial firm to run them.
And to make sure he wins. And gets a box to stand on.
Progressive Jones
(6,011 posts)On his own power, or in 'cuffs, or in a bag. That's his choice.
samnsara
(17,622 posts)dem4decades
(11,296 posts)He alluded to Barr and Durham today, they're going after people that ste in the government.
Then those in the press.
dware
(12,399 posts)Brawndo
(535 posts)If your answer is somewhere along the lines of, "that would be illegal" then I submit to you the events of the last 3 years and pose my question again.
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)allegiance sworn to the constitution, not a president. US Marshalls will remove trespassers from the WH
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Who thinks up this stuff?!?
Codeine
(25,586 posts)(in my defense I was 22) and the Republicans said the same of Obama. Save the apocalyptic fan fiction for a Mad Max sequel.
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)ProudMNDemocrat
(16,786 posts)Trump would be no better than Madauro.
WyattKansas
(1,648 posts)It would quickly evaporate like that 'Glorious Tank Battle' that Baghdad Bob was excited about.
The Powers that Be do not want to deal with a 'dumb ass' ruining the Golden Goose.
After all, they have been winning 'hugely bigly' for 40 years.
pansypoo53219
(20,981 posts)moniss
(4,257 posts)the number of people on this thread claiming that the military will not fire on Americans. The military front line in this country is the National Guard. Are you folks so bogged down with the latest reality shows that your brain fails to register Kent State? They can and they will and when confronted over having done so they will lie and refuse to take responsibility. Organized labor history in this country is replete with soldiers firing on citizens. Ask indigenous people about being told that they are US citizens and then being slaughtered at Wounded Knee for example. The military's own General who investigated three days later was horrified when he found that women with babies were found dead riddled with bullets as far away as 2 miles from the main site. The soldiers weren't content until they had chased down unarmed women and children and slaughtered them. The US cavalry and much of American thought at the time was that the indigenous people were animals or lower. Ask yourself how leftists, progressives, Democrats, minorities and LGBTQ people are spoken of today. Do you really think that there's not a whole lot of people in the ranks of military and police who are itching to open fire?
kskiska
(27,045 posts)There'll be no one who could replace him, but after he's gone, if he's not in prison, he'll continue holding his rallies as an anti-government evangelist to his cult worshipers. And he'll still have Secret Service protection.
dustyscamp
(2,224 posts)kentuck
(111,103 posts)The options must be taken away.
ProudMNDemocrat
(16,786 posts)That would create anarchy for sure.
Stuart G
(38,436 posts)Gidney N Cloyd
(19,841 posts)gab13by13
(21,360 posts)I didn't mean for it to be so divisive. I just think that so many people don't realize the awful state we are in. Barr/Romney/Trump aren't done with Ukraine. Russia hacked Burisma and whether it found any dirt or not, Barr is going to come out with a concocted fable of Biden.
I also remember Trump saying, or hinting, that he may need more than 2 terms.
Someone convince me that I am wrong but right now Trump is above the law. People here cited the Constitution, Trump never read it, he violates the emoluments clause every day and gets away with. People here cite laws, Bill Barr and Mitch McConnell will handle that. Remember also, the new president doesn't take over until January.
dware
(12,399 posts)that's when it's over for the Mango Menace and he will leave, either willingly or being escorted out of the WH by either the Secret Service or the US Marshal's Service, but leave he will.
This nonsense has been pushed since GWB, by both sides of the political spectrum, and it's been proven wrong each and every time.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)Blue Owl
(50,427 posts)I'm sure he loves all the attention...
PBC_Democrat
(401 posts)When he loses, it's over. Period. Hard Stop.
There is nothing he or his supporters can do to keep him in office.
The Secret Service will politely, or impolitely if necessary, from the WH into a waiting limo.
The military takes an oath to the Constitution, not the President.
I'm sure that the DC police and the Capitol police can handle the 20 or so folks that show up to 'keep him in office'.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,841 posts)bdamomma
(63,875 posts)what will happen from now until November, but as we all know, he is really not in the best of shape, he's a drug abuser. He was rushed to Walter Reed okay once that we saw.
Anything can happen also now we are faced with the Coronavirus. He's that stupid that he probably thinks that's a hoax too.
Hmmm.....anything can happen.