David Frum: Trump was not "democratically elected" - he lost by 2.9 million....

[ehrnst]

[Grasswire2]

1. Thanks, Frum!

53.7 percent of all votes were for someone OTHER THAN Trump.

And then he needed foreign assistance to rig the EC.

He's a squatter.

And the stupid "oh you're disenfranchising Trump voters" is a crock.

[CaptYossarian]

18. The squatter resides in the WH, therefore, he's Resident Trump. Not presidential.

And the term for his (s)election is Republicanally elected--he cheated.

If we had any patriots on the GOP side of the Senate, he'd be Constitutionally removed.

[maddiemom]

31. Trump lost, overall, by closer to nine million votes.

[lame54]

2. So post-Trump Frum is now against the electoral college

[ehrnst]

4. Um... no... Frum's pointing out that the very thing Trump supporters claim makes him a "legit" POTUS

is also the very thing that gives Congress a "legit" reason for impeaching him...

[Hortensis]

9. Frum's one of the thoughtful moderate conservatives

who reject what the Republican Party's become and whom we must ally with if we are to bring our nation through this. Nicolle Wallace, very popular around here, is another example of conservatives we agree with on most things.

Frum warned several years ago on TV that the battle for power was enormous. It's about the soul of our nation, and Trump's a symptom, a metastasis that threatens to kill by itself, but not the big cancer. Frum's very enlightening Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic was published in 2018, which means it's now very affordable secondhand. But many of his writings are free on line also.

“Maybe you do not care much about the future of the Republican Party. You should. Conservatives will always be with us. If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”

The white (Christian) male Republican leadership already had, years before Obama's election lit a fire under many millions of conservative voters forced to realize the comforting, secure Ozzie and Harriet America they loved to believe in had "disappeared." Many still don't realize it never existed, but their anxiety at learning that would not help anyone. We have to hold through this transition, and reestablish widespread security and hopes for future prosperity, until their descendants who don't know what all the fuss is about outvote them.

[lame54]

10. Would he say his former boss...

GWB was constitutionally elected and his lying us into war was impeachable?

[ehrnst]

11. What is it about the OP that is getting you so upset?

[lame54]

13. Frum is one of the architects of Trump

[ehrnst]

14. What is the data behind your claim?

And again... do you disagree with what was said in the OP and why?

[lame54]

15. He was Bush's speechwriter...

You know Bush
Like Trump he lost the popular vote
Like Trump he cheated to squeak through the electoral college

He lied us into a war which Frum was fully in support of

For years there wasn't a Republican talking point Frum wouldn't defend

[ehrnst]

16. Again... do you disagree with what was said in the OP?

I mean, by your standards, why would anyone have believed John Dean?

Or John Bolton...

Or anyone who hired Tad Devine?



But humor me... what about the OP is wrong?

[lame54]

22. Bolton would be under oath...

Unlike Bush who was mouthing Frum"s words

[ehrnst]

35. Again... do you disagree with what was said in the OP?

I understand that even acknowledging idea the WH was stolen from HRC, rather than her being a "poor candidate" goes against a particular favored narrative of particular groups here....

Is that the issue?

[Martin Eden]

43. +1

Though Frum is now saying things we agree with, we should never forget he wrote speeches packed full of lies pursuant to war crimes in Iraq.

He's trying to stay relevant and keep his career alive. At least he didn't pursue that ambition by aiding and abetting Trump, which he could have done.

[ehrnst]

36. "Architects of Trump"

That could be said of others who get quoted a lot here...

You've made your pique known, so now tell us: do you disagree or agree with what was said in the OP?

[lame54]

37. I agreed with those who said it 3 years ago...

Don't need to hear it from him

[ehrnst]

42. I think it's a good thing for us when conservatives turn on each other - especially when it's Trump.

And think it should be pointed out and promoted whenever possible, especially when they turn arguments that WH laywers are pushing in the impeachment hearings on their heads.

BTW - who was "pointing out 3 years ago" how bribes and obstructing congress were protected by executive privilege??

[irisblue]

17. Hortensis, Frum is no moderate. There are no moderates in their party and affiliations

"moderate republicans" no longer exist as political group.

We need to no longer use that term.

Frum wrote the Axis of Evil Speech, he has blood on his hands

[Hortensis]

21. Frum is no longer a Republican, like many moderate conservatives

who have not abandoned their intellect, morality, and balance.

Balance is a good thing, critical to intellect.

Btw, most of those, like Scarborough and Wallace, believe in progressive government. Progressive as a radical label is spiting, denying, and refusing to work with all who don't belong to one's own divisive group. As a reality for real believers in progressive government, it means very much the opposite.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

23. Former moderate? Agree they are now 100% monolithic

[luvtheGWN]

29. Frum is a Canadian conservative,

a quite different brand of conservative politics. And yes, he's a dual citizen and has been for several years.

[Hortensis]

30. Sure, why not. But conservative is a personality type first

which comes in a very broad range and complex mixes and in some overlaps with liberalism on one end and in some with RW-LW extremism on another. And that is the same no matter what part of the world one comes from. Moderate forms are moderate, not hard core. Honest, thoughtful people are that, and dishonest, dishonorable people are what they are. No label will make a dishonest or mean person anything but what he is. Hatemongering and small mindedness are the same whether one identifies as a Democrat or with Erdogan's neo-Ottomanism. The label's only a general guide at best.

Gotta look at the individual. None of us are labels.

[dalton99a]

3. Fact.

[Different Drummer]

5. That's gonna leave a mark!

DD

[ehrnst]

6. Indeed. (nt)

[oasis]

7. Good point!

[lpbk2713]

8. He lost even with Putin's help.

And the hacked voting machines.

And nothing has been done about it so it will happen again next time. Just on a larger scale.

[in2herbs]

25. I can only hope that if the fraud takes place on a larger scale in Nov. it will be more difficult

if not impossible, to conceal.

[StevieM]

12. He wasn't democratically elected because of what James Comey did to hand him the election.

Seriously, all this talk about the popular vote just changes the subject from James Comey's actions.

The media acts like it was one of many factors, but the evidence tells a different story. Comey dominated that race from start to finish, from placing a presidential candidate under public FBI investigation, to the July press conference, to the last minute reopening of the case.

Without the fake email scandal Hillary would have destroyed Trump.

[patphil]

27. Comey's words and actions were a huge part of the 2016 election.

I got the feeling he was very much against Hillary being president, and so he deliberately torpedoed her campaign.

[crickets]

33. What he did was unprecedented, and

as you point out, a deliberate torpedo to her campaign. There were a lot of factors that brought her down, but his actions were what gave that last little tip Trump needed. I will never forgive him for that.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

19. We should say stuff like that on TV. Forget

The messenger!!! The excellent point could have been made a thousand times.

[SuprstitionAintthWay]

20. The term I choose to use is "electoralcolleged"

...to differentiate the four presidents who were "elected" by a handful of hyperpartisans cherrypicked by state-level pols, in defiance of the expressed will of American voters.

Bush II and Trump were electoralcolleged. Actual voters chose Al Gore and Hillary Clinton.

If Trump gets into office again, it'll be because he's re-electoralcolleged. No way are voters gonna choose him this year either.

[in2herbs]

24. I tried to find the article and couldn't, but the other day a news source wrote that when the

votes of independents, etc., were included in those who voted for HRC, that trump lost by 8 or 9 million votes.

[Grasswire2]

26. 53.7 percent of total votes were for SOMEONE ELSE.

Other candidates, or write-ins.

[yuiyoshida]

28. He sure is a SMUG BASTARD.. look at his face...

I wonder how Smug his face will be when he is locked in a Prison cell some day. I look forward to that day..

[Remington]

32. Has happened before

Five times a candidate has won the popular vote and lost the election. Andrew Jackson in 1824 (to John Quincy Adams); Samuel Tilden in 1876 (to Rutherford B. Hayes); Grover Cleveland in 1888 (to Benjamin Harrison); Al Gore in 2000 (to George W. Bush); Hillary Clinton in 2016 (to Donald J. Trump)

[smirkymonkey]

34. Welcome to DU Remington!

[Cha]

38. KR!

[colsohlibgal]

39. No Doubt

The Electoral College is a right wing scam pure and simple. We were founded with a one person one vote concept but this silly system blows that up....and it works totally for the Republicans.

It’s just ridiculous. The last Republican to actually win the popular vote was Poppy Bush in 1988.

And now it’s given us this stupid evil man now almost certainly in mental decline with not a lot upstairs to decline from.

So maddening.

[zackymilly]

40. Why does it work totally for Republicans? How is it a right wing scam?

Our candidates need to do a better job of getting the votes from the red states.
President Obama was able to do it twice.

[ehrnst]

41. Obama wasn't running against Russia.... And Comey.... And 25 years of false smears....

And misogyny on both the left and right....

And a highly focused misinformation campaign on FB that successfully targeted Democrats to continuing to support his primary opponent...

And the statistical improbability of a single party holding the WH for more than two consecutive terms...

And voter suppression of Demcorats in three key states that pushed his opponent over by a sliver of a percent...

And she still got more votes than anyone not named Obama...

The EC was created to give wealthy white landowners in more sparsely populated areas the same weight in decisionmaking as the more populated urban areas.

It's doing the same thing now.

[keithbvadu2]

44. In 2012, Donald Trump tweeted that the electoral college system was a 'disaster for a democracy.'

In 2012, Donald Trump tweeted that the electoral college system was a 'disaster for a democracy.'

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-described-the-electoral-college-as-a-disaster/

After losing the popular vote, President-elect Donald Trump has decided that the Electoral College is a pretty smart way to elect a president after all.

http://fortune.com/2016/11/17/donald-trump-electoral-college-hillary-clinton-popular-vote/

[The Wizard]

45. 10 million voted third party.

[zentrum]

46. Then why the hell

.....haven't the Democrats been yelling to the rafters to end the EC?

Why haven't they been introducing bill after bill, that would get news coverage, to end this racist-based voting system?

There should have been a lot more than grumbling, sighs and scolds since the day he was "selected".

[bucolic_frolic]

47. This cabal violates property rights - thievery, budget shuffling, asset sales to cronies,

elections, judgeships, oversight, trials, rule of law, etc, etc, etc.

Now they can do anything.