General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums****LIVE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL 1/30/20 THREAD 3****
Thread 1 - https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212928625
Thread 2 - https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212929057
BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)elleng
(131,121 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)Arkansas Granny
(31,531 posts)They really don't want anyone to hear the whole story.
Mersky
(4,986 posts)Dont think he actually answered the question.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)Kali
(55,019 posts)side issue, not really relevant...will citizens be directed to not violate the ____Act re: foreign policy
edit: Logan Act
BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)YES!
BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)Mersky
(4,986 posts)to follow the law.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)If he's not lying, then this is an admission the House's claims are correct.
If he's lying, this is evidence of their bad faith defense and evidence House is correct.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)Mersky
(4,986 posts)An individual for the wrong reasons?
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)Mersky
(4,986 posts)Please respond to the tRump defense teams answer regarding giulianis role in conducting foreign policy? - Per MSNBC
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)Kali
(55,019 posts)importDavid
(219 posts)Love this man.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)Kali
(55,019 posts)Wednesdays
(17,409 posts)I'm not able to watch or listen right now.
What and how undermined their argument?
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)Rudy was either conducting foreign policy -- illegal for private citizen -- or he was on a personal errand for trump -- abuse of power.
Wednesdays
(17,409 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)blogslut
(38,017 posts)Has that been done so far, senators from both parties asking a joint question?
I must admit, I am old and not as sharp as I used to be.
Mersky
(4,986 posts)Would you agree that almost any action a pResident takes is inherently political? Where is the line between permissible and impeachable political actions?
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)Mersky
(4,986 posts)- FBI Director Wray: No information that indicates that Ukraine interfered
- pResident tRumps Homeland Security Advisor: Its not only a conspiracy theory, its completely debunked
- Fiona Hill: Fictional narrative perpetrated by Russia
- US Intelligence Community and Special Counsel Mueller: Russia Interfered
- putin Benefits from Allegation: Thank God, no on is accusing us of interfering in the US elections anymore. Now theyre accusing Ukraine.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)Mersky
(4,986 posts)Eta: yep, its a lengthy whistleblower SQUIRREL!
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)crickets
(25,983 posts)as well as those trying to out the whistleblower. I love that he pointed out why an intelligence whistleblower absolutely requires anonymity. He shamed them by pointing out that each and every member of Congress should be willing to stand up and be a whistleblower if they see wrongdoing.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)sprinkleeninow
(20,255 posts)makes one ill...
crickets
(25,983 posts)WH counsel has said Rudy wasn't conducting policy. Fiona Hill pointed out Sondland & co were not conducting policy. It was personal political errands.
Is it too much to ask that we follow the Clinton model to hear witnesses (SOU notwithstanding, Super Bowl not mentioned.)
He concludes: we must!
(eta- sorry I am little behind. can skip the WH dude to catch up)
BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)(doing other stuff around the house, etc. and even had to rewind the TV video feed a bunch of times )
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)If the Senate subpoenas any documents, trump would refuse and this would prove the House's case.
If the Senate subpoenas any witness still under trump's control, trump would refuse and this would prove the House's case.
Bolton is the only witness the Senate could call without the risk that trump would prove the House's case by his own action.
Mersky
(4,986 posts)___
Eta: The rather garbled version of the question as seen on CSPAN transcript at approx 4:07 CT - just as an artifact of how this is experienced by some of the public:
The pResidents counsel claimed that if the pResident believes something will help them get elected is in the public interest, that cannot be the type of of quid pro quo that results in impeachment. He had an a hypothetical, I think I am the greatest pResident that ever was and if I am not elected, the national interest will suffer greatly. That cannot be an occasional offense. And there is no remedy to prevent a pResident from conditioning foreign security assistance in violation of the (impoundment)* control act, and recipients willingness to do the pResident a political favor. And if the senate fails to reject this theory, a pResident from withholding disaster aid funding from the US until the mayor endorses him. What would stop the pResident from withholding nearly any oars of the $4.7 trillion annual federal budget to his personal political benefit.
*I added impoundment, as Im pretty sure the word was read out by the CJ.
Heres the clip for the reading of the question: https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4851003/user-clip-cj-reading-question-leahy
BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)Mersky
(4,986 posts)Been there, done that. Call in former gov. christie and aggrieved public to attest to how well this can possibly work out.
sprinkleeninow
(20,255 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)interest.
Example - What would stop the President from withholding aid to a U.S. city if the mayor didn't endorse them?
(sounds like Bridge-gate)
hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)(and had been continually soliciting for the position of AG)
crickets
(25,983 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)Kali
(55,019 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)crickets
(25,983 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)diva77
(7,656 posts)over and over in the media tonight and beyond. Thank you Rep. Lofgren!!
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)crickets
(25,983 posts)Points out a partisan use of impeachment toward Clinton, compared to Nixon impeachment which involved corrupting the government for his own political gain in an election.
Which one compares to Trump? Nixon, of course.
There were several layers to her reply; it was excellent.
diva77
(7,656 posts)ecstatic
(32,731 posts)I knew repubs were scummy, but I'm still incredibly disappointed in the way they've chosen to conduct themselves. They don't give a damn about dismantling our constitution and society. They don't give a damn that they're paving the way for us to become Russia-lite. Maybe they want it that way. It's very depressing.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)crickets
(25,983 posts)Witness testimony and documentation are the life's breath of any court case.
BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)spanone
(135,877 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)elleng
(131,121 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)(the Senate IS the trial)
malaise
(269,169 posts)Did Bob Mueller accuse the Con of Obstruction of justice?
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)malaise
(269,169 posts)select bullshit - let's make them dance
The_Counsel
(1,660 posts)You can't impeach on policy, because it really does become a partisan misuse of the process.
HOWEVER...
Abuse of power isn't that. This isn't a matter of policy, no matter how many times you say it is. It's just not. You abuse your power, you're likely to be impeached. Full stop.
Man...I'm losing faith in this Union with every passing moment. The Senators need to ask themselves: Do you want this to still be a sovereign nation in five years? At the rate we're going, we will not be.
BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)crickets
(25,983 posts)an investigation announcement against an opponent just before election.
WH counsel arguing about this as though the investigation were not a bogus one.
Missed some of Schiff because MSNBC went to commercial.
Schiff: You only have to look at Trump's reaction to see how valuable he thought it was. Also, illegal. Points out this started the very day after Mueller ended.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)How valuable for President to receive an investigation in support of the President's campaign?
BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)crickets
(25,983 posts)He is so lame it's embarrassing.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)Iwasthere
(3,170 posts)What does that mean?
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)Mersky
(4,986 posts)Ya know, argue the law.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)Mersky
(4,986 posts)I dont know how he and the others on the WH team live with themselves.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,847 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,430 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,491 posts)Mersky
(4,986 posts)Why did tRump persist in withholding Ukraine aid when DOD officials were sounding the alarm that the freeze would violate the law and shortchange our ally?