Damn people. NINE PEOPLE died in that crash.

[LakeArenal]

I understand the tragedy.
Listening to Bush and Geist for another day of love him and Gigi.
“This young girl’s life cut short”
Man, there was another young girl there. A basketball player as well. Anyone know her name?
I googled and this is what I found after googling “who else died”?
How hard would it be to print names? This is like the fourth paragraph as well.


“The victims included Mr. Bryant’s 13-year-old daughter and two of her teammates, as well as parents who were traveling to cheer for the team. A coach whom Mr. Bryant called the “Mother of Defense” also died, as did the pilot, who had years of flight experience.”


All those lives go unmentioned in every teary remembrance I’ve heard. I shouldn’t have to search that hard.

RIP all of you.

[aikoaiko]

1. This article has more details about the 9 who died.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kobe-bryant-helicopter-crash-victims-identified-john-altobelli-keri-altobelli-alyssa-altobelli-christina-mauser/

[LakeArenal]

3. Geist and Bush just threw me over the edge..

Two days and NBC couldn’t grab a ten second clip to mention the others?

Cripes!! They’re a “news” agency.

[katmondoo]

5. Artical only available to a few

[aikoaiko]

11. Are you saying you can't access it?

I figured a CBS online news piece would be open access.

Sorry if its not. It has a brief write up on each person

[dchill]

37. This link works for me.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kobe-bryant-helicopter-crash-victims-identified-john-altobelli-keri-altobelli-alyssa-altobelli-christina-mauser/

[hlthe2b]

2. I'm with you. As poignant as the Kobe story is, I am horrified that the others are not even

mentioned in many or most stories. I fell asleep to TuneIN radio on Friday night only to wake up irritated at hearing the constant coverage that ignores the broader tragedy. Even the Kobe coverage then turned to the sportscasters who wanted to "stand out" from the rest giving laudatory coverage by claiming Kobe was not a "team player" and other less than flattering issues.

RIP to all the victims and their friends/families. Some of us DO care.

[LakeArenal]

4. I'm really shocked by it. I guess I shouldn't be.

[Kaleva]

12. The only reason anyone is talking about the others at all is because of their connection to Kobe

Otherwise it'd be a one and done news story. Like underprivileged kids who get gunned down in a drive by shooting.

[hlthe2b]

13. Issue is for the most part the stories of the first 24 hours didn't even mention there WERE others

killed. Seriously... I fell asleep to the story on radio and woke up to it several times. They weren't even mentioning that more than Kobe and daughter were killed.


And even if national coverage does NOT always give details a helicopter with 9 onboard that goes down DOES get coverage, even if no celebrities are on board.

[LisaM]

44. They had to notify family first. The LAPD chided TMZ for releasing Kobe's name.

I don't know that the others sought publicity, or that their families want to be thrust in the spotlight like this, so I can sort of see both sides (though the stations I'm watching have talked about the other coaches). And if I lost a 13-year old daughter, I don't know that I'd want her name splashed all over the news.

I'm more concerned that three 13-year olds died so that a celebrity could live out a lifestyle of taking helicopters everywhere, instead of finding alternative means of travel. No one's talking about that, but I find it irresponsible. I read that Kobe and his wife knew the dangers well enough that they never flew together in the helicopter. The three girls probably didn't have a choice, and were looking to adults to make this decision for them, and I have a problem with that aspect of it. No one needs to go everywhere in a helicopter.

[hlthe2b]

46. I didn't say they should have identified. They didn't even acknowledge more than two killed

although the pilot would have been assumed as the third. Even AFTER it was known there were 9 killed, most reports only discussed the loss of Kobe (and in most, but not all cases, his daughter), failing to mention there were an additional seven killed as well.

Diminishing a crash killing 9 people (or initially five as some reported) to the one celebrity on the helicopter is not only insensitive, it is despicable.

[LisaM]

53. We must have been watching different news reports.

The numbers kept changing, but I heard 5, then 7, then 9.

[hlthe2b]

55. Damn, Lisa, did you read my posts at all? Apparently not.

and no, I'm sure you didn't hear the same overnight MSNBC coverage on Tunein, followed by a few hours of CNN, NPR and BBC. But, that is not unique coverage. It has ALL been Kobe-centric which is to be expected, but most over the first 12-18 hours limited to Kobe's death in total indifference to the fact they KNEW others had been killed, even if they weren't sure how many. Not even a 3-second acknowledgment that others died as well, even if they were waiting on both final numbers and identification.

DO you really want to defend such practices? I personally feel as though noncelebrity deaths are important too. But, I suppose that I'm old fashioned in that belief nowadays.

[LisaM]

58. I did. Did you read mine?

I think there are reasons not to discuss the deaths of people who haven't sought attention, and I didn't see one report that said it was a single person crash.

Clearly, we're just talking at each other, so I think we should wrap this up.

[hlthe2b]

60. No one is suggesting discussing more than numbers! To aknowledge others were killed?

damn, how insensitive is this society now that only celebrities seem to matter. It is absolutely shameful.

I hope nothing ever happens to someone you care for, but if it did (and assuming you are not a Kardashian level celebrity either) I would hope an acknowledgement of your loss would not be totally ignored while all focus on the one loss the masses feel actually MATTERED.

[Blueplanet]

62. Use the safest route for the children

The children should have been driven to the event, chances of survival in a vehicle is probably much higher than a helicopter.
Adults can make the decision whether or not they want to fly in a helicopter, not the children. Parents should always think about the safety of their children first.

[jberryhill]

67. Helicopters ARE safer

What makes you believe that a car is safer?

Relative fatality rates:



Lots of people die in cars. Lots.

How about “drive the team on a bus”. Does that sound familiar?

[Mosby]

69. A rate based on time would look much different.

There is also the issue of use, my chance of dying in a helicopter crash is 0, because I don't fly in helicopters.

It's different for people who spend hours of flight time using that mode of transportation.

[jberryhill]

71. You can do time / mileage / whatever

But no matter how you slice it, around a hundred people are going to die today in car crashes. And tomorrow, and the day after that...

Several hundred have died in cars since this helicopter crash. There’s simply no comparison. Cars are orders of magnitude more dangerous.

[Kaleva]

56. Issue is that the story wouldn't have got much play had a celebrity not been involved.

The names of the victims of the White Settlement, Texas church shooting were released but I doubt anyone here remembers the names or if anyone here ever did.

[hlthe2b]

57. Again, again, and again. Helicopter crashes are widely reported even outside the area with the

numbers of casualties. To limit discussion ONLY to one celebrity death without mentioning the numbers killed along with him in an hour-long panel discussion-- no acknowledgment that others were killed at all--may be acceptable celebrity worship in your mind. It is unacceptable and insensitive in mine and most others'. Fortunately so.

[Kaleva]

59. I really don't understand why you are hung up with celebrities.

You spent an hour watching talking heads go on and on about him Why? I had heard that Kobe was killed in an accident from my father-in-law and saw some OPs here but today is the first I heard it was in a helicopter crash. The accident is tragic to the victims and their loved ones and friends but I feel worse for 4 year old Tripp Shaw who was killed by the negligent actions of his father.

[hlthe2b]

63. I'm not. You seem to believe it right that they be the only ones discussed.

I believe all loss of life should be at least acknowledged if you are going to spend hours discussing one person specifically. I would hope that would be the case for someone you cared about and everyone else.

How rich, that you defend total mediae focus on Kobe while not even acknowledging in a two-second statement that others were killed as well and then claim I am the one obsessed with celebrity. Do you understand the meaning of IRONY?

[LakeArenal]

76. Geez. Thanks. Some folks refuse to see another point of view.

At this time over 60 people Dee and appreciate our point.

[Kaleva]

61. But you bring up a fair point. Everyone ought to get respect and be afforded dignity

[hlthe2b]

64. Thank you. I"m glad you now "get it."

[exboyfil]

6. Celebrities like Bryant kind of occupy

the niche of a family member in people's consciousness. That is why the news concentrates on naming them. There were over 8,000 homicides in 1963, but JFK's name is the only one repeated regularly.

Such fame has its downside as well. One reporter put out a story that all four daughters were on the copter. Can you imagine the anguish that mistake caused. Same with the rumor that Rich Fox was on the copter.

[lunasun]

22. The story on TMZ broke before some of thevictim's relatives were notified along with incorrect info

yes there is a downside when everyone wants a scoop or angle

Link to tweet

?s=20

[jberryhill]

28. Ghouls

[ScratchCat]

7. This is probably the reason:

We have the names/identities only from the flight manifest. As of yesterday evening, ME had only identified two or three of the bodies.

[Ilsa]

8. It's also possible that media was waiting

for releases in case other family had not been notified. You nev3r know - maybe there was family overseas or in the military or on vacation.

[LakeArenal]

16. No. In the last two days Geist and Bush had every opportunity.

NBC is “news” not just a gab show. They could have at least said our hearts go out to the other 5, 6 or 9.

[malaise]

9. Several of us posted about all the victims

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212915629

[LakeArenal]

18. I know DU would post.

I’m talking all the remembrances and all the comments by famous people.

[malaise]

19. People are talking about the person they knew

If I died on an aircraft with Usain Bolt, it would be the same.
It is what it is.

[LakeArenal]

21. Well, I guess I don't like how it is.

[jberryhill]

29. Do the other families want media attention?

Do you know?

Do you care?

[MontanaMama]

10. Thanks for posting this link.

It is heartbreaking, however, to read about these families and what they’re going to go through going for forward. Holy hell, there are a pair of orphaned kids now...whose parents and sister died in the crash! A widowed father with 3 small kiddos at home. And another father who lost a wife and daughter. My goodness. Their stories are as tragic as the Bryant’s. They shouldn’t be forgotten.

[jberryhill]

27. Let's loose a horde of curiosity seekers upon them!

Celebrities are used to dealing with that.

Other people not so much.

Let’s get the pictures of the crying spouse and surviving children. Let’s shine lights on them and stick microphones in their faces.

Because we need to see them!

[LakeArenal]

30. Who said that? Geez.

[jberryhill]

48. Who said the sun comes up when night ends?

Some things are the obvious and regular sequence of events.

You drop a hammer, it lands on your foot. That’s the way things are.

Did the parents of Sandy Hook children ask for what they got?

Bryant’s family is used to dealing with celebrity and has mechanisms for dealing with it.

“Your child is dead and, oh by the way, you’re now famous for that.”

[LakeArenal]

75. Wow. What a sad view.

[cwydro]

72. Thank you.

I find it ugly for people to want to rubber-neck every disaster. It’s creepy as hell.

Ick.

[The_jackalope]

14. "Celebrity significance" strikes again

I didn't have a clue who that basketball player was
I sure know his life story now.

I still don't have a clue who the others were. Maybe there was a medical researcher in the group, we'd never know.

Just to make my feelings perfectly clear, I despise the shallow concepts of sports and boob celebrity.

[getagrip_already]

15. There was a good article on the coach, and another on the pilot.....

https://sports.yahoo.com/christina-mausers-husband-calls-wife-extraordinary-remaining-kobe-bryant-crash-victims-identified-174153225.html

and there have even been stories on the copter itself. Lots of stories, though the one focusing just on kobe and daughter are more frequest.

[Takket]

17. The most famous in a tragedy get the most attention because they touched the most lives

[LakeArenal]

20. That's the problem

So it’s numbers? How do we even know whose lives the others touched. They were coaches. Everyone on earth are influential in somebodys’ lives.

[jberryhill]

25. Their families are entitled to privacy

What is wrong with people?

[LakeArenal]

31. Who said to do that?

[jberryhill]

45. To do what?

You want their names why?

So that Alex Jones and his ilk can weave them into some grotesquery?

[jberryhill]

24. If I die in the company of a celebrity...

...I don’t want a jackass news van in front of my house looking for comment from my wife. Fuck that shit.

[LakeArenal]

32. Who said they should do that?

[jberryhill]

43. They WILL do that

And it will be followed by all manner of freak, ghoul, truther and weirdo.

Getting your name associated with a news story of note is a one-way ticket to a sort of hell that many people simply do not want.

I do not need to know who these people are who have not volunteered for a famous death.

[jberryhill]

23. How hard would it be to print names?

People have privacy - particularly minors.

Who has consented to disclosure of the minors’ names? Do you know?

It’s astounding how intrusive people are.

[LakeArenal]

33. Who said we need to intrude on anyone?

[jberryhill]

42. It is inherent in the glare of media attention

Anyone who gets their name in the media in association with an event of interest attracts freaks, weirdos, truthers, etc..

Simply assuming that everyone wants that when they are mourning the loss of a loved one is completely insensitive and disrespectful.

Many people have no desire for that sort of thing.

[Blueplanet]

65. Good point.

These families are grieving in ways some of us cannot even imagine. Being in the news is the least of their worries.

[csziggy]

35. Even while complaining that the other people's names are not listed

No one here has listed them. From the article linked above:

Kobe Bryant and Gianna Bryant
John Altobelli, Keri Altobelli and Alyssa Altobelli (baseball coach at Orange Coast College in Costa Mesa,his wife and daughter)
Christina Mauser (basketball coach at Harbor Day School in Newport Beach)
Sarah Chester and Payton Chester (mother of a friend of Gianna)
Ara Zobayan (helicopter pilot)

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kobe-bryant-helicopter-crash-victims-identified-john-altobelli-keri-altobelli-alyssa-altobelli-christina-mauser/

[nolabear]

26. They have symbolic value and represent all our losses.

I wish there was more attention paid to the others IF their families want it, but I think we relive important losses to us when someone we feel connected to dies. In large measure we’re all comforting one another over the whole experience of shared loss and it helps.

I’m deeply sad for the coach an the moms and those girls and the pilot too. But I don’t feel their loss as much because I can’t post on this thread and feel connected or alienated, I can’t recall having been touched by them. And that emotion is connected to every one whose loss I’ve felt.

[virgogal]

34. I posted similar thing Sunday.

[LakeArenal]

36. Thanks and two days later Geist and Bush still don't mention them.

[barbtries]

38. i've googled

who else died with kobe every day since it happened. so far i have only found a total of 7 people, but had not looked today yet.

yes. they ALL matter, and ALL of their loved ones are in a living hell right now.

[applegrove]

39. Yes. Kids get me especially. They had so little time on this earth. 3 girls

living their young lives to the fullest.

[Mersky]

40. Thinking about that tragedy has stopped me in my tracks

Off and on ever since I heard about it. Is awful, and I mourn for them and their families as I go through these days.

[maryellen99]

41. The Today Show interviewed the husband of Christina Mauser yesterday nt

[pangaia]

47. THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!

I have wanted to writre something like this dof a couple days. but too cowardly to say. SO WHAT if it was a famous p[erson?

Othe people died. BUT their neames donm't sell advertising...so why bother..

Most 'reporters' and news readers ar just like lemmings.... and sheep....bleating, gasping for air, running after the first bleater who takes off....

And you know what? I don;t need to hear any more about that crash, no matter WHO was in it.
Some 2 year old girl was probably hit by a car this week. Who cares?

bryant was tall and one of the most brilliant at what he did. He died recently. So did Mariss Jansons! One of the greatest conductors who ever lived! Outside the classical music field, who knows about it?

[stopdiggin]

49. respectfully. I think the story (and the victims) have been treated well

for the most part. (TMZ, et al are going to be their usual sleazy selves). Bryant is one thing because of his super-star celebrity status. And I think a roll call for the other names (which did eventually come about) is in an entirely different category .. both in good reporting, interest to the public, and respect for the families of the lost. I just don't see this as a sign of disrespect.

[cwydro]

50. If I die in some celebrity crash or whatever...

I’d just as soon my name stay out of it.

Does knowing the names mean anything to you? You don’t know who they are.

No thanks. I enjoy my privacy, and I sure wouldn’t want it violated when I can do nothing about it.

[Raine]

54. That's the way I feel too

the families of the others might want to remain private and not want their names splashed all over the media.

[jberryhill]

68. Same here

[Ohiogal]

51. Yesterday

F—-g Yahoo put a photo of Keri Altobelli on the feature article on their home page yesterday ....
In a low-cut bathing suit! Obviously taken when on the beach somewhere. Headline about “Coach’s wife killed in Kobe helicopter crash”.

I don’t know what’s worse....

[usaf-vet]

52. I know this post will get me in trouble but... If the citizen of this country spent 1/2 the time

they spend watching, talking and dreaming about their favorite sports team and instead involved themselves in local, state, federal and even international affairs. Watching the slow-moving but directed destruction of the things that have made this country great we would all be better for it.

It's never failed to amaze me that you can ask the average person on the street what is your favorite team, who are the key players, what is their current standing and when was the last time they won a national trophy? What you will likely get is a stream of stats that would impress a statistician.

But ask them who, their mayor is, who are their school board members, who is the superintendent in their kid's school, what is the community annual budget, what is the school district's annual budget and you will likely get a blank stare.

Now the real test. Who is the President, VP, Speaker of the House, Senate Majority leader and of course who are your Senators and Representatives? Same blank stare.

Part of the blame for this failure is we stopped teaching Civics in public schools.

In this recent tragedy, the world knows the sports star and his daughter. But that is where it stops. Seven other victims are mostly still unknown.

[YOHABLO]

78. I totally agree. Ask people who their Rep is, or Senator is: not a clue.

[Tipperary]

66. Why do you need to know?

When the Titanic went down, the famous were mentioned first. Pretty much the definition of “famous”. The other names came out later. Do you know any?

Why are you so interested? Sounds like morbid curiosity to me.

[SaschaHM]

74. Some people can't help but turn everything into an us vs. them situation. nt.

Celebrity + Black = The DU Bitterness brigade is going to rise from the swamps.

[Hekate]

70. Thank you

[SaschaHM]

73. There's a difference between a private citizen and a public one.

Of course, others died in the tragedy. However, given the private space that they occupied in life, most people would feel awkward talking about them and subjecting their family to that. They're getting the same privacy in death that they had in life.

Kobe was a public figure so the treatment of him and various aspects of his life including his death will be different. No one has any qualms about mentioning that he died and reminiscing about his public life.

It's not disrespectful to refuse to subject grieving private families to having to read headline after headline about their private families members because they had the misfortune of of dying near a celebrity.

It's not a competition. It's an acknowledge of the spheres that each individual occupied and a respect for it after death.

[Kurt V.]

77. wtf?