General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMass Shooting In Downtown Seattle Tonight
Unknown victims. Right in front of the McDonald's on 3rd Ave. A place my wife says is the most dangerous place in the city.
One of the people in the area told the media "in Seattle crime is legal".
Unfortunately they are right. Crime is legal.
You have to be arrested 50 times before you go to jail here.
Houston we have a problem....
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)is what the local news is saying.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)day all the streets would be safe.
So sorry for those involved in Seattle!
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)to other large cities (plenty of property crime, though). So it's that much more of a shock when it happens.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)DanieRains
(4,619 posts)They don't even arrest people who steal items under $35 from what I understand.
"With a crime rate of 60 per one thousand residents, Seattle has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities. One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 17."
Just fond this in the internets.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)not all communities including the smallest.
Wouldn't most large cities have higher crime rates than small towns?
Here's another point of view. Seattle's overall crime rate has been going down, though the population has been rising. And Seattle's crime rate is lower than COMPARABLE cities.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/crime-rates-down-in-most-seattle-neighborhoods-but-theres-a-big-divide-between-north-and-south/
To be clear, the raw number of crimes in Seattle went up. Between these two periods, the number of crimes reported increased by 13 percent. But the citys population grew even faster, by almost 19 percent. That made the overall crime rate in Seattle dip from 60 crimes per 1,000 residents at the start of the decade down to about 58 per 1,000 in the most recent data.
The decline is due to a lower rate of property crime. The violent crime rate, however, went up 11 percent in this period. Even so, Seattle has a relatively low violent crime rate compared to other major U.S. cities, while our property crime rate remains among the highest.
Farmer-Rick
(10,188 posts)I'm referring to Danie
coti
(4,612 posts)GP6971
(31,170 posts)"You have to be arrested 50 times before you go to jail here".
That's total BS but you knew that.
would you believe 49?
GP6971
(31,170 posts)But I admit I haven't checked the Vegas over/under numbers.
marble falls
(57,112 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)What is and isn't considered a "mass shooting" by the news media is a fraught question. But if it's a high crime area, the national media won't look at it.
TalenaGor
(1,104 posts)It's where all the busses stop......There's defnitely a collection of homeless and mentally ill on 3rd....
But to say crime is legal....yeah no murder is still murder....since the guy from yesterday's shooting wasn't caught there's a chance it was him again....
Seattle is an amazing city....I'm sure the police are doing all they can...
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)TalenaGor
(1,104 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)stopdiggin
(11,317 posts)if you want to have a real discussion ...
(Yes, people are frightened and concerned about crime. That's a real thing. But to come at it by means of just blurting out a bunch of nonsense ... Let's leave that to the windbags and bloviators on talk radio, OK?)
ZZenith
(4,124 posts)Thats the most absurd comment I have read this week and I have read some doozies.
Without knowing anything about the situation you proclaim that.
Sounds like something my Neanderthal brother-in-law would say.
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)It is sad.
Needles everywhere. Mentally Ill People Everywhere. I have no idea what to do about it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/no-charges-for-personal-drug-possession-seattles-bold-gamble-to-bring-peace-after-the-war-on-drugs/2019/06/11/69a7bb46-7285-11e9-9f06-5fc2ee80027a_story.html
They stopped arresting people for heroin possession here. I don't have all the answers for treating drug addicts, but I don't think making heroin legal, with no real opportunity to get help if you want to get clean is the answer. Many have to steal to feed their habit, and they need to steal more every day as they get worse. I have had "stuff" stolen from my over 12 times in the last year. You can't leave anything laying around it will be gone.
I am a recovering drug addict, and not a saint.
Lock Them Up. Sorry. I have little sympathy for the people stalking me, my business, and my home.
ZZenith
(4,124 posts)I didnt think the most absurd thing Id heard all week could be topped but here we are.
GReedDiamond
(5,313 posts)...and locked-up if the non-drug related crime merits incarceration.
At that point, they could be coerced, if not forced, into drug rehab while imprisoned.
If that rehab works long-term, post imprisonment, I don't know.
For the record, I am against all anti-drug laws, and for drug addiction being treated as a mental/physical health issue instead of a "crime."
ZZenith
(4,124 posts)DanieRains
(4,619 posts)I got clean because I wanted a better life. Treatment helped, along with a good family. God knows what it would take for others. Some of my friends can't stay clean no matter what. Others are dead.
If you are afraid of going to jail, maybe one would be more likely to go to treatment and get clean.
One of my best friends just got tired of jail, and has been clean all but one day for 8 years. NA meetings for years and treatment.
ZZenith
(4,124 posts)Youre not as transparent as you seem to think.
ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)Shit is getting very weird.
ZZenith
(4,124 posts)marble falls
(57,112 posts)yewberry
(6,530 posts)rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)GP6971
(31,170 posts)6 shot, one dead.
nolabear
(41,987 posts)Bluethroughu
(5,172 posts)If the Republicans get away with dereliction of duty in the Senate Impeachment trial.
Seattle is suffering from a case of ammo-itist tonight. I hope the contagion can be irradiated, but not until we fight the disease.
Please do something kind for someone you don't know,
we shall overcome.
nolabear
(41,987 posts)Seattle has problems for true but this kind of thing is not the norm.
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)I love this city.
These people need help, but if they don't use the help they need locked up.
Sorry for speaking like a perpetual crime victim.
nolabear
(41,987 posts)We dont know who did it though I know the area has been dreadful.
Im still processing that he was so close...
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)But there was no money to pay for it.
But we do have 10 BILLION to give Boeing.
This headline in the Seattle Times was like 10 years ago.
Maybe Bezos and his buddies could pitch in?
FreeState
(10,572 posts)We dont know who did this or why. Or that mentally ill persons are more violent.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1525086/
Haggis for Breakfast
(6,831 posts)Those of us familiar with Seattle have seen this section of town decline for years. It is well-known to every civil authority in Seattle that there are a large number of less than stable people who "lodge" in that area. If you don't live in Seattle, do not know the area, are unfamiliar with the neighborhood, then you don't have the slightest idea of what is being discussed here. DRain is correct.
FreeState
(10,572 posts)I know the area extremely well (my dad works blocks from the shooting and I have family that lives five blocks in the other direction). The OP is blaming/implying the cause is mental illness in several posts.
22. I Read Years Ago There Was 15,000 People In Washington That Qualified For Mental Help
Haggis for Breakfast
(6,831 posts)acknowledge the facts. That area has been dodgey for years. Even the SPD will tell you that there are problemmatic people staying in the area. Drug addiction, unemployment, homelessness and hopelessness cause mental health to spiral. That is not stigmatizing.
It is a sad statement that there is a lack of sufficient mental health outreach and homeless aid facilities in Seattle, as well as in most large metropolitan cities. For far too long, mental health has been underfunded and ignored. Much of this started with Reagan, who basically shuttered the NIMH when he took office, and defunded many outreach programs nationally. This has taken a terrible toll on our society. But ignoring the truth of it only makes matters worse.
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)I wish I had some answers and some power to fix what I see.
I am just glad I got clean....
Life as a crackhead isn't all it's cracked up to be.
We got trillions for the military but squat for the homeless, mentally ill, or addicted.
Reaganomics.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Irony is bemusing, but often little more.
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)"Calderon had been convicted 72 times; 14 times for assault and had dozens of warrants for his arrest in a criminal history that stretched back to the early 1980s. In a plea bargain, the city attorney agreed to release Calderon back on the street with probation and credit for the 50 days he had spent in jail."
Ms. Toad
(34,076 posts)And nothing in the article suggests he was not sent to jail prior to being arrested 50 times.
He was convicted 72 times and the article suggests he is on the list of people who have been in jail 10 or more times (as opposed to not being jailed until after he had been arrested 50 times).
stopdiggin
(11,317 posts)going on here at all
icymist
(15,888 posts)Link to tweet
?s=20
One of the injured is a nine year old boy.
nolabear
(41,987 posts)Jesus.
Wednesdays
(17,381 posts)then that sounds like a place tRump is planning on retiring to!
Haggis for Breakfast
(6,831 posts)klook
(12,157 posts)It was lovely, all parts of town. Didnt make it to Bizarro Seattle though.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)icymist
(15,888 posts)Real bad part of town. I avoid that area whenever I go into Seattle.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)the police chief hinted at the victims were not the intended targets.
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)Crazy isn't it.
There has to be a better life for these people than rummaging through trash cans and acting out. I don't know the answer but I can see their need for help.
Mentally ill / drug addicted / criminal. Lots of overlap in too many cases.
Ms. Toad
(34,076 posts)liberal city = soft on crime; no sympathy for victims - only for the [fill in the blank target of hatred of the day].
Oh, gee. It took me one poorly constructed google search and less than 10 seconds to find the same trash spouted by right wing jerks.
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)Then there is Aurora Ave N. It didn't used to be like this. Reality, not propaganda.
I blame Reagan, not my mayor.
We use our resources to insure the rich get richer, not to help the struggling.
We all pay the price.
But when someone steals from me, I think they need to be locked up for doing it.
Not a right wing idea.
Ms. Toad
(34,076 posts)- Crime is legal.
- You have to be arrested 50 times before you go to jail here
- They don't even arrest people who steal items under $35 from what I understand.
- They stopped arresting people for heroin possession here.
- demonizing mentally ill people (you have no idea what this city has become. It is sad. . . . Mentally Ill people Everywhere"; the new norm is The New Norm Is Hordes . . . Mentally Ill Everywhere In Downtown Seattle; I Read Years Ago There Was 15,000 People In Washington That Qualified For Mental Help; Mentally ill / drug addicted / criminal. Lots of overlap in too many cases)
- and citing right wing new sites to back up your talking points (KOMO is a subsidiary of Sinclair, a well-known right wing media company that required the anchors of its subsidiaries (including KOMO news) to recite its "fair and balanced" propaganda;and Fox - 'nuff said.)
Observing that crime rates are high is very different from obeserving high crime rates and linking that observation to allegedly lenient crime enforcement policies, the mentally ill, and citing right wing sources to prove your points.
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)I am tired of being a crime victim.
I want help for the disabled, treatment for the addicts (like I got) and jail for criminals that want to keep doing crimes.
Call me normal.
Dude got convicted 73 times. How many victims did dude have? Thousands? Lock Them Up.
When you get tired of jail you stop doing crime. As long as you are locked up you aren't robbing my store.
Ms. Toad
(34,076 posts)I am criticizing you for blaming crime on allegedly lenient policies on crime (with nothing to back up your allegations about the supposedly lenient "policies" or about the connection between the purported policies and crime - except for right wing propaganda sources.
I am criticicing you for blaming crime on the mentall ill.
I am criticizing you for repeating right wing propaganda about the cause of crime.
I find all of that offensive (because it comes from the same kind of mentality that blames liberals for rape, murder, and mayhem because we love "illegals" more than the people they rape, rob and kill) and it has no place on a progressive discussion board.
All you have to do to establish it is not right wing propaganda is to find neutral sources to establish:
- You have to be arrested 50 times before you go to jail here
- They don't even arrest people who steal items under $35 from what I understand.
- They stopped arresting people for heroin possession here.
Then find a study from a neutral source connecting policies like the above with increased criminal activity
If you can't, it's no more than right wing propaganda.
Nothing can save you from legitimate criticism for blaming crime on the mentally ill - you really need to educate yourself and back off of that one.
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)I could go on all night about the problems the police aren't equipped to handle. If someone chooses to do crime, then they should do time when they get caught. If they are mentally ill maybe give them treatment as well as or instead of time. But the crime has to stop. I work too hard to have my stuff stolen by someone who needs another hit. Have you been to downtown Seattle lately? It's like an asylum on some blocks, and in practically every park. It is definitely not as safe as it used to be.
We can spend trillions on war, but nothing for mental health. Reaganomics.
Ms. Toad
(34,076 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)including small towns.
When compared to those of other comparably large cities, Seattle has one of the lower rates.
I think you're right. Fox has an interest in painting a city run by Democrats as a mess.
Ms. Toad
(34,076 posts)are right wing.
And it takes no effort at all to find an article in a prominent right wing source - that was immediately picked up and echoed by tons more as gospel truth.
Alleging high crime rates is one thing (but I agree comparing it to small towns is apples to cucumbers). What really bothers me is alleging that outrageous leniency is actually policy, followed by tying the purported lenient attitude toward crime to an increased crime rate. That, and demonizing mentlally ill individuals.
TimeMachine68
(1 post)What is most shameful about mass crime is that it seems some of our representatives really believe that guns in the hands of law abiding citizens are most responsible, and they ignore the ease with which they are acquired. Most of those weapons are not held or acquired legally, and bottom line, bad guys will alwsys get them - even where the law prohibits. We have just changed the law and nothing but words on paper has changed. There are ample examples of mass crimes which did not rely on or even involve guns. Our representatives who are getting the most airplay support unwriting the second amendment. The ones who get near zero airplay from the likes of MSNBC, CNN, and CNBC all have more common sense approaches. That said, it is extremely evident that we are in a bad spot as a group, we Democrats. We need to charge the party with the responsibility of allowing the candidates to make their run without being group shamed for their strength or their interest in international diplomacy, etc. As a lifelong registered Democrat, I have never voted a strict ticket. I never will. This is not a high school popularity contest. We are not robots. I fear that the next few mid-terms will cull our ranks in the House and widen the gap in the Senate. I will remain a Democrat unlike so many of our representatives who have switched sides for political expediency. I applaud those who have done so as a matter of principle. Thoughts?
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)a good time to advocate for splitting tickets.
herding cats
(19,565 posts)I have lots of thoughts on this post. So very many!
A) You said: "What is most shameful about mass crime is that it seems some of our representatives really believe that guns in the hands of law abiding citizens are most responsible, and they ignore the ease with which they are acquired. Most of those weapons are not held or acquired legally, and bottom line, bad guys will alwsys get them - even where the law prohibits. We have just changed the law and nothing but words on paper has changed." Are you saying it's not the gun lobbies, who pushed to flood our markets with guns and created thus current glut? That they are not responsible for what they caused and shouldn't be regulated?
B)You said: "There are ample examples of mass crimes which did not rely on or even involve guns." What other mass crimes are you speaking of here? It's the massive deaths we Americans are concerned about in regards to guns. Just to be helpful here.
C) You said: "Our representatives who are getting the most airplay support unwriting the second amendment. The ones who get near zero airplay from the likes of MSNBC, CNN, and CNBC all have more common sense approaches." When, and where are MSNBC, CNN let alone CNBC (have you ever watched CNBC?) been advocating the repeal of the second amendment? Citations and links are always welcome here.
D) You said:As a lifelong registered Democrat, I have never voted a strict ticket. I never will. This is not a high school popularity contest. We are not robots. Voting for anyone not on the Democratic ticket here is a deal breaker, we're just funny that way. It's actually in the TOS you agreed to when you just now signed up. And, yes, we're adults and not playing HS (that's a common acronym for high school here) games. Most of the members here are decades beyond that, and we're well aware of what's going on in the world right now.
E) What are you talking about when you said: "I will remain a Democrat unlike so many of our representatives who have switched sides for political expediency." We've added around 600 (or more) total Democratic seats since 2016 across local, state and national races. It looks like we're kind of kicking Republicans asses at the moment.
F) You said: I fear that the next few mid-terms will cull our ranks in the House and widen the gap in the Senate. Whew! Lucky for us we don't have another midterm until 2022. Here in the US we have a General Election coming up this year. Dodged a bullet there.
I'm not saying everything is ok here. It's not, not even close. We're currently fighting foreign influence in our elections and the Republicans, who have been benefiting from it, are stonewalling us on this MAJOR issue.
Hey... I just had a wild idea here... hear me out, ok? Maybe you could take up the mantle of fighting the Russians meddling in our elections here, on US soil, rather than spend time on this trope? I guarantee it'll win us more seats in the next midterm, and even in the upcoming GE!
Are you in?!
Mike Niendorff
(3,462 posts)Live here, born here, raised here, you literally couldn't pay me to live anywhere else.
Seattle is having huge issues with growth (primarily because freeways and housing are beyond capacity), and yes there are also bad areas just like any other city.
But "crime is legal?" "50 times"?
Seriously, that's just insanely false.
MDN
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)Michael I have read story after story of people IN SEATTLE that have been arrested and or convicted dozens of times, and are not in jail. If you don't go to jail crime is legal.
https://crosscut.com/2019/10/whats-seattle-doing-solve-its-shoplifting-problem-nothing-really
It is really bad.
I am not saying there is no police, but there is no penalties. Unless you have a job then you have to pay.....
Try to report a hit and run in Seattle. Go to their website and report the crime. You can't.
It's bad.
AJT
(5,240 posts)for a state income tax. The problem of homelessness, drug addiction and mental illness has become overwhelming. Seattle needs to deal with the problem.
This is also why dems have a reputation for being soft on crime. If you believe there should be drug rehab, prisons that help reform and train prisoners, and help for the homeless then do it. You can't just let people who've been arrested off then expect people to become some kind of model citizens. There are good people who are victims and there needs to be strong consideration for them.
samnsara
(17,622 posts)...i dont know whats worse..driving over the pass in ice and snow or spending the night there
Blues Heron
(5,938 posts)houston, indeed we have a problem.
Yeehah
(4,588 posts)Is crime "legal" in Utah also? Why aren't you spouting off about Utah?
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)And I don't know how you take care of your mentally ill, or drug dealers/users/criminals but I didn't see hoards of them like I see here. Maybe there is enough $$ in Utah to help them. There isn't enough here by any measure.
There has to be an easier way for people with problems to get by than rummaging through garbage cans downtown.
icymist
(15,888 posts)@SeattlePD
#king5news
Link to tweet
?s=20
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)How many violent crimes does it take to get a gangster off the street in Seattle?
https://q13fox.com/2020/01/23/sources-seattle-police-identify-two-suspects-in-deadly-downtown-shooting-that-killed-1-injured-7-others/
TalenaGor
(1,104 posts)There are cops everywhere..... Just being present....
3rd avenue is empty.... Except for the cops....
Drastic difference....