I read Trump is regretting getting involved in the vaping problem.

[shockey80]

This is a perfect example of how Trump works. Someone must have told Trump he has a problem with young voters. Young people are into vaping. Trump must not have known this when he decided to do something about vaping. Trump targets all groups and sees what they like and don't like. Then he gives them something they like. He cons them, he pays them off.

Trump the con man, the pretender, does this all the time. It is how he operates. He has done this his entire life. Trump has spent fifty years playing the same game and he has focused entirely on that game. This is the reason he is so ignorant on almost everything in life.

He has only cared and focused on the same game his entire life and it has worked for him.

[dewsgirl]

1. He only thinks about right now, he lives his life in the moment.

[getagrip_already]

2. Actually, he didn't realize big money donors sell them.....

He took a knee jerk position he thought would help with the evangelicals without know big money backers would be hurt.

So he walked it back. And that is how he stumbles through policy. No strategy. No thought. Big mistakes.

[mr_lebowski]

4. The OP's and your hypothesis are really not mutually exclusive ...

It's probably a bit of both, but your idea (money) is probably the more prominent one.

Additionally, to the extent he actually has any 'principals' whatsoever, the principal that 'regulations = bad' is probably one of them. His cult-members probably let him know in large numbers that he was 'acting like a libtard' by proposing 'nanny-state regulations'.

[virgogal]

7. Just curious,how would vaping have anything to do with evangelicals?

[getagrip_already]

9. kids smoking, having sex, DANCING......

Has always pissed them off. That's why.

[tulipsandroses]

3. Trump is ignorant to most things. He is not a man that thinks things through or reads

Now that he's facing pressure from his own base, he's having regrets. If he had been a person well read, he would have known that the vaping industry tends to be mostly conservative. So he was going to alienate his base. Especially the people who own the smoke shops. When he put the ban in place, it was going to affect their business. He did not think about that. Now a lot of his base is angry about their bottomline and how the ban affects the money they are going to be able to make. Lots of little smoke shops that rely on teenagers buying their products. Of course they are going to be mad at the orange Jenius.

[mr_lebowski]

6. The vape shops around where I am have been carding people to even come inside ...

Since long before there was even any laws requiring it. Now they have signs saying you must be 21 to enter, even though the legal smoking age in my state is still 18.

Probably shouldn't spread BS that vape shops let 'teenagers' come in and buy vaping gear. In my experience, that's totally untrue.

Generally the people working at these shops (which often includes owners) seem pretty liberal, at least around here.

The ban on flavors was always a fucking ridiculous idea. I'd even entertain the possibility that the stupidity of it played SOME role in Trump backing away from it.

Why is it so stupid? Well, for one reason, because when it comes to vaping ... even 'tobacco' is a fucking FLAVOR. And it's not even remotely convincing as a flavor, I'd add. It maybe tastes slightly like the smell you inhaled entering a tobacco shop when you were a kid. Which is to say, very little like actual tobacco smoke.

[tulipsandroses]

13. Teens were buying from somewhere, so I am not spreading BS. Kudos to the ones that don't

One of the things owners of shops asked for when they pushed back on the ban was better age verification, so that suggests to me that there are shops that are not so diligent about not selling to teens. Last year CNN did a report that showed that about half of vape shops in CA that did not ID teens. So while the shops that you know of may not. It was taking place.

The Pro vaping community that put pressure on Trump that he wants to appease are not liberals. These are Trump supporters disappointed that their businesses are suffering since the ban and are saying that they are not going to vote for him in 2020. Some have said their businesses have dropped as much as 90%. Had Trump known that there is a significant number of this community that he could potentially lose, he would not have waded in these waters. This includes shop owners and people that use the products. He does not care if it is stupid or the greatest idea ever. He just cares that it may cost him votes. There is quite a lot of reporting on this.



The backlash from vapers and vape shop owners is getting louder as they argue their small businesses and their rights to what some see as a smoking cessation tool are being trampled.

“Rather than just vote a party ticket, they may in fact change their vote for anybody who comes out and wants to have a critical conversation about vaping,” warned Alex Clark, the CEO of the Consumer Advocates for Smoke-Free Alternatives Association, a self-described tobacco harm-reduction nonprofit in Plattsburgh, N.Y.

Political groups are noticing that vaping is an identity, not just a hobby. Conservative powerhouse Grover Norquist, whose Americans for Tax Reform group hosted over 200 vaping advocates last month in Washington, D.C., cautions this is an electorate Trump should not ignore for 2020.

Vaping activists have already claimed success in a handful of races. Now some advocates say this burgeoning anger could shape the votes of the nation’s more than 10 million adult vapers and 20,000 vape shop owners.

“Are there enough vapers to swing states like Michigan?” added YouTube vaping influencer Matt Culley. “Absolutely
][link:https://www.rollcall.com/news/congress/vape-vote-vaping-crackdowns-politicizing-vapers|

While an industry poll states that 45% of vaping industry members skew conservative, John Dolan, the owner of Smooth Vape stores in Pennsylvania who voted for Trump in 2016, estimates that anecdotally, that number is more like “70 to 80 percent” of those in the vaping community voted for Trump, and would likely revoke their support in 2020. “I’m a Trump supporter, so I was very, very let down [by the announcement of the ban]. My reaction was that I absolutely will not vote for this man,”

[link:https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/vaping-rally-washington-dc-donald-trump-flavors-ban-910474|

At least 200 small e-cigarette manufacturers and self-described "mom and pop" vape shops hit Capitol Hill this month to plead with lawmakers to soften the looming flavor bans in favor of other measures like higher taxes and better age verification at stores. The Vapor Technology Association, which organized the lobby day, declined to say which lawmakers they felt were ready to defend the industry from impending regulations.

The small business argument holds sway with a number of conservative groups. Free market think tanks and vaping advocates are building the case that Trump’s move will turn millions of vapers in key election states against him. Americans for Tax Reform has circulated a document on the hill estimating the numbers of vapers or shop owners in those states that could turn against the president in the upcoming election because of this ban.

[link:https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/01/vaping-crisis-republicans-regulation-016526|

[mr_lebowski]

14. Uh huh ... just like every time someone under 21 has a beer or under 18 has a cigarette

it's because they walked into some shady store and personally bought the booze or cigs. It's THE ONLY way, right?

Leaving that aside, if the argument is 'little vape' convinced Trump to change his stance, that I could maybe believe. Liberal vapers will not vote for him period, but there's plenty of cons who vape, so ...

Big Tobacco however is hostile to 'little vape' and I'm sure would love a 'flavor ban'. Thus he wouldn't flip flop if BT was his main factor.

So perhaps I misunderstood your argument in that regard.

[getagrip_already]

10. It's long been said that trump believes...

Whatever the last person he spoke to or watched on fox said. He is incapable of analysis. Details anger him. Vengeance drives him.

And that is how he stumbles through life.

[Indykatie]

5. I Don't Think Trump's Flip Flop is About Young Voters

That's a demographic he knows he's going to lose. This is about big tobacco and their $$$$. Most of the Vaping companies are owned by tobacco companies now. I believe the plan was to bankrupt the others so big tobacco would own 100% of all of them. By the way, has anyone heard any more about people dying from using the JUUL product? I haven't. It ends up the problem wasn't with JUUL system but the mixture of vaping fluid being used. JUUL paid the price though.

[mr_lebowski]

8. Nobody died from using JUUL ... nobody died from just using nicotine vaping products period

JUUL or otherwise.

The 13% that SAID they only used nicotine products ... lied.

The problem was tainted THC-containing liquid, sold through dealers on the street ... who used bad 'cut', vitamin E acetate to be specific, to raise profits.

Never had anything to do with legit nicotine vaping products.

That said, I'm not sure how your hypothesis makes sense. Why the flip-flop in this case? The small mom and pops would've been devastated, and JUUL would have lived on just fine.

The more logical tack for Trump would be to push the ban if this were the motivation.

[flotsam]

11. You are 100% right

about the cause of what they are calling "vaping" illnesses and injuries. In nearly half of the states vaping THC recreationally is illegal making the fact ONLY 13% deny it surprising. Vitamin E is fine topically or ingested-turns out badly when inhaled...

[kozar]

12. I truly wish shockey,

He would regret running for office,,make his damn knee jerk decision and just leave. But I digress


Koz