What I really really want someone to tell me is

[malaise]

if these Constitutional violations do not meet the standard for impeachment, what the fuck does a scumbag president need to do to be removed from office.

[empedocles]

1. Legal fictions, or convenient falsehoods, are very common in law.

Also widely accepted, i.e. The concept of 'virgin births' may in some instances be assumed as a sort of reality.

We have in our time, the concept of the 'DOJ Memo' that a sitting President cannot be indicted or charged; a conceptual/'legal' fiction necessary, given the political reality that an indictment of criminal charge would not be 'effective'.

What is needed to be 'effective' in removing a sitting President, is a strong consensus of 'public sentiment' [ala Lincoln and Pelosi].

[malaise]

4. I remember asking my deeply Catholic mom how she would

react if I told her I was pregnant with a 'virgin birth'. Her response still makes me laugh - she said she'd tell me to identify that wretched boy - even she didn't believe a lot of their BS.

[Farmer-Rick]

6. Well put.

But I must add it is Not the teaming masses or the majority of voters that would get this monster of a criminal president out of office.

What is needed is the American filthy rich's public sentiment to change. It is criminal bankers and lying CEOs, its major, major stock holders and minor kings and lords whose sentiment must change.

And so far Gates got a multimillion $ government contract and we are digging for oil in all our once beautiful national parks and not collecting pumping fees. And everyone from the Wal Mart heirs to Google kings got huge tax cuts that we middle class are picking up the slack for.

So the monstrously rich creatures created by out of control capitalism are in charge. They created and allowed Traitor Trump and sniveling Pence. They wanted a Slovenian sex work to represent America. They are happy picking over the bones of our once powerhouse of an economy. Until they are done with us, we are stuck with a cowardly traitor as the representative of all America.

It's the filthy rich whose sentiment counts. Not so much the rest of us. Welcome to a failed democracy.

[KPN]

13. Not a pretty picture. Perhaps history will prove

you right, but until so, I reject the view that the people are powerless.

[Farmer-Rick]

16. I don't believe we are powerless

We just haven't figured out how to use the limited power we now have.

I think attacking the places the filthy rich get their stolen loot from would be much more productive then protesting our political figures.

That's why Occupy was so determinedly crushed by the liberal party. It was impacting stolen loot collection.

[KPN]

17. Places where they get their stolen loot from?

Occupy crushed by the liberal party?

[Farmer-Rick]

19. Well, who was in power when occupy was crushed?

We should have embraced Occupy like the right wing embraced the teabag movement. But the bankers were not happy with the protests.

The collection points are stores, retail outlets like Amazon. Banks are big collection points. Headquarters of corporations and major offices are good points. Transportation interruptions are good. Mass labor strikes are really good. Interrupting the flow of wealth from us to the filthy rich. That is where our power lies now.

[theaocp]

24. I like the idea of pressure points.

They're effective ways to target opponents in a fight, so why not analogize them into anti-democratic opponents as well? Cheers.

[Farmer-Rick]

33. Hmm, I'm not sure what you are saying.

[theaocp]

35. lol sorry

I appreciate where you noted where pressure can be applied in a productive way. It made me feel less doomy and gloomy.

[ancianita]

26. A tax strike is power.

[Farmer-Rick]

34. True that.

[ancianita]

36. So why don't we do it. Fear?

You say we're not powerless.

Yet if we fail to use the power we have, we might as well be because we make ourselves seem powerless.

Yet we are not. But we are if we think we are.

[Farmer-Rick]

45. Well, if you ask me the problem with tax strikes

Is that the IRS will come and put the little guy in jail. They ignore Microsoft and Amazon but the little guy goes directly to jail. Or the fines put him in debt for the rest of his life.

And it is not the government that is really at fault, it is the filthy rich who control our politicians like pawns. Just because the government doesn't get its taxes, doesn't mean that Amazon stops getting subsidies or a tax write off.

There are several liberal (and some rather ignorant right wing) organizations that are attempting different ways to avoid taxes mostly to stop supporting our war machine. But they usually get prosecuted and are done on such a small scale it has no impact.

OK, so now that I researched it I find it probably wouldn't be effective.

We need to do what Unions did in the 1950s. Go to their places of work and protest them there, in their faces stop their businesses. That's why Occupy had such an affect. They were in the stock market workers faces every day, day in and day out.

Yeah, if we think we have no power, we have no power.

For example, if we organised all the airport workers and NO airport workers went to work, capitalism would stop. There is the power.

[ancianita]

47. Only one little guy at a time. Do you know how many millions can be mobilized? I have a plan.

[KPN]

44. That has been my thought. If this goes south,

that would be our most effective tool. But some won’t have the ability to stop withholding. Perhaps many or most. ... It will take more than that ...

[ancianita]

46. I have a plan for that. I'm just thinking that DU would think it too extreme. Yet, if we don't

at least talk about it, then we've proven we're too afraid to even think about using our power.

I don't mind being censored, but only for the right reasons. Any talk of how WE the people can defend rule of law should be okay around here.

[KPN]

50. Too extreme? Hopefully, we are needlessly all just feeling

glum in the face of a wanton power grab by a would-be single party national governing authority that is treacherously close to completion. We may not know fully until the election, but if that is not the case, frankly, I think it will ultimately take massive and potentially violent revolt. It would have to be along the lines of what we saw in Eastern Europe in the late 1980’s and especially 89 ... which was triggered by the economic collapse of communism. Is capitalism reaching a similar stage? I just don’t know.

[ancianita]

55. It won't happen. We'll wait him out and restructure later.

Any violent revolt has to face the biggest militarist force on the planet.

In the meantime, a tax strike is a more preferred non-violent way for The People to speak.

[KPN]

56. Tax strike isn't possible with corporations administering

the vast majority of payrolls. You can only strike by withholding. Not everyone will be able to do that. No?

[ancianita]

57. It doesn't depend on corps. It depends on 141 million

I’m out right now, only on my phone but will get back later.

[Farmer-Rick]

60. Agreed violent revolts like our Revolutionary War and the French Revolution

Are no longer possible because, like China, most governments can easily crush such revolts with excessive overpowering force.

But a tax strike will only hurt the government. It won't affect the filthy rich who use our government to do their dirty work. It wouldn't stop corporation from stealing every avenue of economic independence from us.

If we were to organize transportation workers it would stop the flow of wealth into their coffers at least for awhile.

During that government shut down Trump created going into January 2019, the FAA shut down numerous checkpoints due to lack of security workers. Soon after, Trumpy signed a bill to reopen the government even though he didn't get funding for his wall. All because of delays in transporting people and packages.

Stop them from making money by even a little and they scream. Don't attack the government, it is only an agent of the filthy rich.

[ancianita]

61. I get that we can't use the means of the revolutions but the REASONS are actually the very same.

No taxation without representation.

That simple.

But this time, the means for winning against more global forces will be more tricky and will take coordinating millions rather than some battalions or ship crews.

Bear with me here, because I don't pretend to know how to make this work, but it's along the money producer/taxpayer end that broadly outlines what people do. It's the scale of it that can fail. Not the motivation, just logistics. And maybe fear. The tax strike also will take from one tax deadline to another. A year.

Let me get back with a few ideas later.

[Wabbajack_]

63. They'll just cut food stamps

[ancianita]

64. Not sure who "they" is or how this fits in. Why do you say this?

[Wabbajack_]

75. The goverment,

if there is less money coming in what do you think they would stop funding? Sure as shit wouldn't be the military machine, vulnerable people will suffer. The government shutdown? Who did that hurt, federal workers, who largely hate Trump. Refusing to pay taxes and getting yourself in trouble is the last thing you should do.

Well the second to the last thing, THE last thing would be a hunger strike.

[Farmer-Rick]

80. Yes, I've come to agree with you.

[OldBaldy1701E]

79. The entire system is two-tiered...

the justice system is, the economic system is, the healthcare system is. Why would any of those slime ever change a thing? They have got it made.

[livetohike]

2. I would like my Republican Senator (Toomey) to answer

that question. He’s not up for re-election until 2022.

[Freedomofspeech]

37. Gawd...

He is our Senator, too. I cannot stand the man.

[dewsgirl]

3. If the Yovanovitch plot can be proven, I would think

that certainly would, of course the GOP will just shrug it off, even if they would have pulled it off. We have crossed a red line somewhere in the last couple of months, where what used to be satire is now reality and that is terrifying.😳

[Joe Nation]

5. Wait! Republican or Democratic President?

Because it seems to really, really matter.

[Lonestarblue]

14. It absolutely does.

If you’re a Democrat, you can be impeached for no misdemeanors at all and if you’re a Republican you can’t be impeached for anything. I guess if Trump strangled a staffer to death in one of his temper tantrums, they might consider impeaching him. On reflection, probably not. Republicans would just say that the staffer choked on something and died—not a crime.

[Ferrets are Cool]

21. Or hung himself

[Farmer-Rick]

48. Damn right it matters a lot

But when we get Democratic control again we have to continue to pressure the filthy rich.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

7. If Trump viciously attacked a highly revered Republican.....

or spoke in favor of tax increases that would do it for the GOP..... .....Those are about the only sins to them.

They act as if Reagan's 11th Commandment is enshrined in our Constitution......

More seriously, it would have to be something almost inconceivable such as Trump ordering the bombing of Mecca or shutting down the IRS for Rethugs to get on board.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

41. Trump has already viciously attacked a highly-revered Republican, John McCain.

It caused some furrowed brows and expressions of "concern," but that was all. He could piss on Ronald Reagan's grave and nothing would happen.

[Farmer-Rick]

49. Yeah, he does it to anyone who criticizes him, even GOP.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

8. We are staring at a mountain of impeachable offenses..

Picking just Ukraine not best option in my opinion. It allows other side to say "just one lousy phone".

[Kid Berwyn]

9. Ukraine Affair has everything.

Bribery - Using Office for personal gain.

High Crimes - Engaging Epstein-Barr, Moscow Mitch, Moo Moo Nunes in a criminal conspiracy to raise and use foreign money in American politics; destroying the careers of excellent public officers to advance said conspiracy.

Misdemeanors - Government by Falsehood, Smears, and Libel.

Treason - All roads and tentacles lead to Putin.

Yes, this Ukraine business is what impeachment is for.

[panader0]

10. I know what would happen to me if I ignored subpoenas.

I'd be in the Cochise County Zoo, staring at the ceiling.

[ehrnst]

11. If there was any way to legally remove a POTUS from office other than impeachment or the 25th

believe me, the GOP would have used it to get rid of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.

So the answer to your question would be him doing something that the GOP Senators think would be a deal-breaker for their constituents so they think they will keep their jobs if they convict him in the trial, or he needs to do something to alienate the VP and most of the Cabinet to the point of invoking the 25th amendment.

Since Pence wants to be elected POTUS, rather than get the job by default, invoking the 25th is out of question.

I found out recently that the GOP wanted to remove DT as a candidate, and asked Pence if he would step in. Pence said no, because he wanted to be the candidate that was selected by the base.

His ego is without bounds.

[defacto7]

28. If Pence turned down the nomination

It would have been on religious grounds. You can't buck God's choice iow.

[mgardener]

12. Blow job?

And then say, "I did not have sexual relations with this woman".

That would do it.

[empedocles]

22. Technically, B Clinton argued, and had a poll of college students to support his

argument - that the 'sentiment' [my humored word here], that oral was like french kissing, penetration, but was not regarded as sex per se.

Voter 'sentiment', however, was that intimate oral penetractuib contact was 'oral sex'.

[rzemanfl]

32. Please check spelling. n/t

[mr_lebowski]

54. He used 'sexual relations' specifically because it is a legal term of art with a specific definition

To whit, it means 'penis in vagina'. Exclusively.

So what he said was true (apparently) in legalese, but not in the parlance of our times.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

42. That only works on Democrats.

His Lardship has already lied about doing a porn star.

[ManiacJoe]

62. When you say that lie in court

under oath, it is called perjury. Illegal in every jurisdiction in the country.
Virtually every lawyer in the country recognized the evidence was overwhelming against Clinton.
Also, virtually every lawyer in the country said the Senate would not convict Clinton, via jury nullification, and were correct.

The Repubs usually get away with the lies because they make sure they don't do it in court.

[kacekwl]

15. Be a member of the

Democratic Party. Or named Clinton.

[sl8]

18. I thought this might be about a Spice Girls reunion.

"I'll tell you what I want, what I really, really want"

[kag]

20. Not sure about the scumbag type...

but if you're really good at the job, have lots of class, dignity, integrity and intelligence, all you have to do is be black.

Orange just doesn't rise to the level of impeachment, I guess.

[zaj]

23. Be a Democrat

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

81. Lol, that's what I was thinking

Rules only apply to democrats.

[zaj]

83. It's not a joke either. That's what authoritarians do. That's what the GOP is now.

[The Wizard]

25. Shooting someone on 5th Avenue

is off the table.

[Mike 03]

27. Nicole Wallace had an answer but I can't remember it exactly...

"A strangled prostitute at the bottom of the Potomac."

But honestly, I don't think that's nearly enough.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

43. It would have to be several underage male prostitutes.

Preferably dismembered.

[kentuck]

29. Jason Crowe (D-CO) on CNN...

said that if a president cannot be charged with abuse of power, then that is saying that he is above the law, and there is no checks and balances.

[lark]

30. That's easy - be a Democrat - that is the only reason repugs would ever impeach anyone.

All they care about is power and money for themselves and the other oligarchs. To get this, they will do anything with care about nothing and using every flimsy stupid lie there is. They care nothing, NOTHING, about the constitution, laws, the country or it's working & poor classes, rich white straight males only need apply.

[kentuck]

31. That's right!

If he was trying to bribe Zelensky to get dirt on Mitch McConnell, it would be a different story.

[malthaussen]

38. You're not asking the right question.

IMO, your question really boils down to "what do we have to do to get politicians to act for the good of the country, rather than their party interests?" And I do mean all politicians, granting that there must inevitably be a few isolated exceptions who do have something more than party interests in mind. In the current case, party interests of one side happen to coincide with the good of the country, but if that were not the case, I doubt many Democrats would put country above party.

-- Mal

[malaise]

40. Unfortunately party over country is a major weakness of liberal democratic countries

with two dominant parties.

[Dukkha]

39. Appoint a pro-choice judge and propose gun control

That's all it comes down to for a cult that desperately clings to guns and religion.

[liberalhistorian]

51. Be a Democrat who

gets a blow job from a woman other than his wife? Be a black Democrat who wears a tan suit? At least, according to Republican and media logic.

[beachbumbob]

52. need to be a democrat and then GOP be all over it

otherwise , GOP has ZERO problem with a crook

[MLAA]

53. i wonder if tr*mp having same sex sex in the Oval Office would do it.

My guess is no. On the upside, the evilgelicals would find a way to finally embrace LBGTQ community.

[Skittles]

58. the president needs to be a Democrat

that's what

[trof]

59. I think we're in 'live boy or dead hooker' territory if..

it's a repug senate and a repug senate.

Naw, on second thought not even that would do it.

[spanone]

65. we've got video of dershowitz & lindsey graham saying it doesn't have to be crime to impeach

and they both are now arguing the exact opposite.

republicans have learned to just lie when the truth is uncomfortable....crazy shit.

[malaise]

66. It's hilarious

fugging hypocrites and liars

[spanone]

67. it's also maddening....

[TheBlackAdder]

68. The right question.

.

.

[CaptainTruth]

69. Be a Democrat.

[Brother Buzz]

70. An ex-president told us all we need to know about impeachment

"An impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history." - Gerald Ford

[Richard58]

71. That depends.

If you're a Democrat you can be impeached for a blowjob. If you're a Republican---nothing. Trump could opening say he is handing this country over to Putin in exchange for money and burn the Constitution on the White House lawn and the GOP and the MAGA morons would still support him and claim he did nothing wrong.

[Marie Marie]

72. Well we already know that even murder won't do it.

[vapor2]

73. Douchebag dershowitz is throwing shit

against the wall hoping it will stick. Impeachment does not require a crime and Bolton will most likely bring this prez down.

[JGug1]

74. The Line In The Sand

Well.......we already know that shooting someone on 5th Ave won't get him out.

[pioche4]

76. A Democratic Majority in the Senate!!!

That's what's needed! And America needs that to be able to save the utter stuffing of the courts by the Republicans ---not to mention the Supreme Court.

[KentuckyWoman]

77. The answer depends on 2 things.

Which political party is the president?
Which political party has the most members in the Senate?

I would like to believe the Democratic Party will hold one of their own accountable. We did push John Edwards off the big stage and all the way to jail for far less than what this admin has done.

The Republicans will scream bloody hell and investigate if a Democratic President so much as sneezes. But you find a rich white guy that spent years trashing the Republican party but then decide to throw in with them last minute, can get a foreign government to tamper with our elections, thumb his nose at Congress and pretty much every law ever written anywhere, and brag tweet about war crimes and human rights atrocities - well you'll find the Republican will run around and call THAT "caring about people".

There is absolutely positively NOTHING any Republican president could ever do to get the Republican party to hold accountable. The party is nothing left but hypocrites, liars and thieves. Anyone with the tiniest bit of decency has already quit or died - and even those folks weren't much to write home about.

[MasonDreams]

78. If the 2020 election doesn't work, the office of President will no longer exist and the States won't

Be United.

[Baltimike]

82. Be a Democrat. That's all. nt