Another benefit to Universal Healthcare, no more Workers Comp Medical Ins

[edhopper]

Wage replacement would still be necessary, but workers would not have to go through the Dickensian nightmare that is the Workers Comp system.

Everybody is covered, the source of you illness or injury won't matter.

Why aren't business onboard, considering the savings?

[TexasTowelie]

1. So we are going to give a break to the businesses (and corporations)

and pass those expenses to taxpayers instead? It would also remove any incentive for those businesses to have any safety programs and endanger the employees. I'm sorry, but I'm not on board for that since it essentially is a transfer of wealth from taxpayers to the businesses and shareholders (most likely the wealthy).

[edhopper]

5. first, they pay taxes too

second a strenuous OSHA with heavy fines and in certain circumstances, criminal penalties would do.

[TexasTowelie]

6. No, there are plenty of corporations that don't pay taxes

or they pay at far less than the stated rate for corporations because of loopholes.

Second, we can't count on OSHA to consistently enforce worker protections. Enforcement will vary depending upon whether there is a Democratic or Republican administration. Republicans will always try to underfund OSHA because they cater to the business community. Why would we give a permanent break to business when we can only reasonably expect a temporary crackdown on enforcement and safety programs?

FWIW, the same argument could be made that M4A would make it such that businesses no longer need to carry liability insurance. In theory, if someone is injured they could no longer sue the businesses that are either responsible or negligent because of M4A. It transfers the responsibility of those businesses from the private sector to the public sector and more strain is placed upon social service programs which are usually the first in line to be cut when budgets are made. The minute that Democrats regain power history will repeat itself and we will start hearing about budget deficits again.

[edhopper]

7. There is still liability

in every freaking country that has UHC.

And UHC cannot be done without overhauling the tax code.

You sound like you oppose UHC? It's the current system that is untenable.

[TexasTowelie]

9. Why are you trying to bait me with that question?

There is workers compensation insurance in every country that has UHC.

The larger question is whether that insurance is paid for by employers or through taxes. I believe that an employer based system has stronger incentives to protect workers with safety programs than a tax based system. The adage of privatize the profits and socialize the losses comes to mind. Personally, I don't want to subsidize businesses that endanger their workers because of their irresponsibility or neglect with my tax dollars.

Have a nice evening.

[edhopper]

10. sorry

I see what you are saying. I overreacted.

[TexasTowelie]

11. Thank you.

I believe that all Democrats are in favor of UHC and care for basic health coverage. I just believe that everyone participating in health care should have some skin in the game which is why I'm reluctant to give business a free pass by eliminating WC.

I worked for the state insurance department (I was the lead tort reform statistician) and for a large insurance company so I tend to see more of the far-reaching social consequences of the debate about the various proposals to change health care (and yes, I also spent about seven years of experience dealing with WC--both as a regulator and for a company that was regulated).

I've also been a beneficiary of social programs so I certainly want to see those programs protected and I don't want them to burdened to such an extent that they become unfeasible in the eyes of those that contribute and sustain those programs. Like almost everyone, I still have some skin in the game too--for better or worse.

[edhopper]

12. I too have experience in the WC system

It is in need of reform.

[TexasTowelie]

13. I'm willing to concede that point.

However, I'm not sure what can be done since it is run on a state basis rather than a federal basis. The benefits are too low and I had a friend that was screwed about thirty years ago because he was limited to which physicians he could visit. A lot of physicians refuse to take any WC cases while other practices are geared specifically for WC patients, but are involved in fraud and kickbacks from attorneys. I doubt that any system can or will be perfect.

Towards the end of work with the insurance company I was in a position where I should have been a whistleblower to the NLRB and the California WC department, but it would have left me in a precarious financial situation. If I had been at the end of my working career it would have been much easier to make the correct moral choice, but losing severance and unemployment insurance for years while waiting for a case to get through the court system forced me to act against my values. Life isn't always fair.

[edhopper]

14. what you describe is

one of the reasons I think the health care part of WC shouldn't be separate from UHC.

[dlk]

2. They much prefer their mega-tax cuts...

[Eliot Rosewater]

3. Not entirely.

Employers' liability insurance is also called “part 2” of a workers' compensation policy. Because workers' compensation laws don't cover all workers or injuries, an injured worker may sue their employer for work-related injuries; employers' liability coverage provides protection for the employer.Jun 25, 2019

This would be an important part to maintain if we get UHC.

But your point is a good one.

Also you would think large employers especially would like to stop paying huge HC premiums and pay less thru a new tax system.

[Hoyt]

4. Whatever happens with universal healthcare, corporations will likely fund a big

chunk of it. Whatever they are paying on average for WC and healthcare coverage, will be converted to contributions which are essentially a healthcare tax.

I doubt they’ll be much “savings” for corporations. Ones who aren’t providing healthcare will likely pay more than they are now.

[edhopper]

8. But we know from

EVERY other country with UHC that IT COSTS LESS!

[Hoyt]

15. It won't here unless everyone in the chain -- including nurses, physicians, techs, etc. --

we should have adopted it after war, or stuck with England and taken on their NHS.