Regarding "The Men Acting Badly " Posts

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Aren't we as liberals supposed to believe it's wrong to punish a whole group for the acts of a few. If you replaced males with any other group you would be pilloried and rightfully so if you suggested every member of that group is a predator or a potential predator.

I am reading Barack Obama The Story by David Maraniss and I am at the point where Barack is upset and disappointed by his white grandmother when she comes home and says she doesn't want to use the bus because she was intimidated by a panhandler at the bus station who happened to be be black*. Her mistake, which was born out of cultural conditioning, and not malice was being scared of a scary person because of his race and not because he was scary. Lots of scary people and they come in all colors , races, genders gender orientations, et cetera.

Same with men...

The older I get I come back to the world view I had when I was a kid. There are nice people and not nice people and they come in all shapes and colors.


*on edit. It's important to note he overheard the conversation and his grandfather tried to assuage his feelings. The Dunhams were extraordinary people. They were decades ahead of their times when it came to race. Barack Obama benefits from being the product of such a loving environment.

[seabeyond]

1. who is punishing all of a gender? i hear SOME men saying that is happening when clearly no one is

saying it.

so, please tell me, what thread is punishing all of men.

i may agree.

[cthulu2016]

2. irony

[a geek named Bob]

3. Irony... it can stronger than whisky...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. There Are A Certain Percentage Of Men Who Are Assholes And Potentially Violent

Same for every group.

I can empathize with women that men can be scary because they are inherently physically more powerful but the percentage of men who are predators or potential predators is not large enough to treat all men as if they are predators or potential predators.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. so we have gungeoneers who argue that they should be armed everywhere

because of the massively small risk that they will be faced with a life threatening assault.

They treat all people as if they are potential predators.

1 in 6 women will experience a rape or rape attempt. That is not exactly a small risk, rather it is a real non-negligible risk. The risk factor increases substantially for subsets of the female population, for example women in their 20s. The population doing all those rapes is, for all practical purposes, "men". Women do not have to treat all men as predators, nor do they need to go everywhere armed to the teeth, but they most certainly do have to be aware of the risks.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. Yes. We Need To Be Careful And Especially Women For The Reasons I Cited

But I saw the threads more as an attack on the character of a group and that was what I was addressing.

[raccoon]

65. You rock. nt

[seabeyond]

6. ah... so, you have nothing? gotcha. nt

[hifiguy]

86. + 1 brazillion nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

5. I wonder if ...

all the outrage would be quelled with the addition of a single word ... "some"?

I suspect not; but let's see.

[seabeyond]

7. i try to get that "some" in there. SOMEtimes i forget, lol. or many. or a handful.

i work hard to get a more specific number. but, you are right. it is important to ME in many of my posts to clarify it is not all. so many of the conditions set up for men to live is not held by ALL men, and i know this to be true. there is no way i would give it to ALL men. doesnt benefit them or us as a society.

but, i do not know what thread we are talking, and no one is clarifying.

if the OP is referring to a womans experience on the subway, i think it has been made pretty damn clearly that not ALL men do this.

[seabeyond]

8. catch my edit... thanks. nt

[a geek named Bob]

10. works for me

[4th law of robotics]

12. I recall a thread telling all men what they can do to end rape

not "rapists" or "some men".

Just men.

[Aerows]

17. Well?

You are complaining that people are calling out thieves as being the one's stealing and asking them to stop. Calling out murderers to ask them to quit killing.

It isn't the female community that needs to put a stop to rapes - it's the male community that needs to step up to the plate and do it, because ... you have the physical power and the means to commit, guess what? Rapes. This obtuseness to shed any responsibility for not taking a strident stand for the women in your life and the women you care for is the problem.

If I said "Black people are mostly subservient to white people, it's because they are morally weaker, don't dress properly, and are socially annoying" it wouldn't last either, but that seems to be many men's opinions of women.

Think about it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. I Don't Think Most Guys Think That Way About Women.

If I said "Black people are mostly subservient to white people, it's because they are morally weaker, don't dress properly, and are socially annoying" it wouldn't last either, but that seems to be many men's opinions of women

[4th law of robotics]

25. Excellent retort! Thank you very much!

You are complaining that people are calling out thieves as being the one's stealing and asking them to stop. Calling out murderers to ask them to quit killing.

I love that you put "men" in the same category as thieves and murderers.

The first is a gender. The other two is a voluntary state that one chooses following the commission of a crime. You conflate the two groups.

Men are criminals by your analogy.

It isn't the female community that needs to put a stop to rapes - it's the male community that needs to step up to the plate and do it, because ... you have the physical power and the means to commit, guess what? Rapes. This obtuseness to shed any responsibility for not taking a strident stand for the women in your life and the women you care for is the problem.

Sure, just like the black community is to blame for all crimes committed by black people. Surely a thread calling out all blacks and telling them what they as a black person can do to end all this crime (ie "black people stop committing so many crimes&quot would be very well received here. People wouldn't find that bigoted at all.

If I said "Black people are mostly subservient to white people, it's because they are morally weaker, don't dress properly, and are socially annoying" it wouldn't last either, but that seems to be many men's opinions of women.

Yes yes men are awful. To the camps with us!

[Aerows]

28. You miss my point

because you want to be outraged at the horrible treatment of men by women. I can't imagine how men have managed to live by being so maltreated by women.

[seabeyond]

31. that is exactly it. and why i do not try to have conversation with a FEW. nt

[4th law of robotics]

41. Strawman fallacy

Women here is what you as a gender can do to avoid using logical fallacies in a debate: just stop using them. It's that simple.

[Aerows]

13. Bingo

I just hear some men whining that they are being insulted because "they are wired differently, and women must respect that" with no evidence that they understand that women are wired differently and men must respect that.

It smells like complaining that they aren't afforded their due privilege.

[4th law of robotics]

14. Not wanted to be labeled en masse as rapists or child molesters

or being held accountable for the actions of other men is "whining"?

I assume when people use broad brush smears to condemn your entire gender you don't "whine" about it.

[Aerows]

19. Ah yes

Here's the defense. "If you claim any man raped you, you are claiming all men raped you!!!11!"

If you claim a white man enslaved you, you are claiming that all white men enslaved you and are inherently racist.

Your reply?

[4th law of robotics]

21. My reply?

Well for starters your retort bore no resemblance to what I actually said.

Not sure how much further I can go with that since you're replying to statements I never made.

Instead I was thinking of threads telling "men" (not some men) what they can do to stop rape. Notably men (all men) should just stop raping women all the time.

Oh and the one about an airline labeling all unescorted males presumed pedophiles and banning them from being near children. Many people (yourself?) had no issue with that since men are assumed pedophiles unless proven otherwise.

[Aerows]

27. If you genuinely want to stop rape

quit telling rape jokes. Quit making "who gets the most women" a goal. Don't sit there and tell me that many men don't do this. Correct your brothers. Help them learn to respect women, even at the expense of your own ego that will take a hit by doing so. Maybe you are one of the ones that is a champion of women, I applaud that. But far too many are too cowardly to stand up to the perception that a man is only as good as those he subjugates, and many times, he turns on women.

Stand up for everyone, not just men. Stand up for gay people, stand up for women and stop thinking that everything is alright while men respect you. If women fear you, society isn't alright.

[a geek named Bob]

29. This assumes that the man you are talking to...

is doing those things.

Not cool on your part. It doesn't win you friends.

[Aerows]

32. You are correct

I just happen to have some in my family that are like that. And I did use a broad generalization, but I wasn't the one that posted it in the first place, nor did I venture into either thread - I just offered my opinion based on some of my experiences.

[seabeyond]

37. what you suggest is a good and needed insights for ALL men to be aware of it they come along any man

that should behave in those manners. we all need men to speak up and out about these issues. it is really the biggest way the issues will be addressed and it will be the most sucessful manner in approaching the issue.

i teach my boys that if they hear these things from their buddies, that it is important they speak up for ALL women, lol.

[4th law of robotics]

57. Do you believe men are responsible for the actions of other men?

That there is some secret dudes-club where we all sit around smoking cigars and deciding rules for our behavior?

Because your post here makes it quite clear that you view the behaviors of other men as the responsibility of all men.

If I see a woman behaving poorly in public I don't grab the nearest other female and blame her for the actions of her sister and order her to get her gender in line. I blame the person doing it.

If you were to argue that every *person* has an obligation to act up when they see another *person* behaving poorly that would be a valid point.

But breaking it down along gendered lines as you do is bizarre.

[seabeyond]

62. you argue so poorly. you frabicate an unhealthy interpretation always. this will be one time....

i seriously take the time to answer any of your posts, though i am confident it will go over your head, because you have no desire at all toward understanding. it is clear in each and every one of your posts.

do i feel a responsibility with the female gender. damn straight. absolutely. do i accept the blame of an individual behavior, nope. do i speak out each and every time. damn right i do. i feel the responsibility to speak out. and i know a woman is going to listen to me before a man. and what she is doing is wrong.

i hear a woman say it is the mans place to pay for dates. have this argument all the time why it is wrong. the hypocrisy of wanting to be equal yet insist he pay her way, ect...

my niece was going after the man who provided the sperm. i was all over her that the baby is 50% of his and she had better make the visits work, always be positive about that side of the dna, because it is part of who that child is. that would be her job to make it work and dont dare make it hard for the father to spend time with that child.

as a christian (in a way) i feel it is very important for me to speak up to fellow christians who promote hate and hurt. more so than any person outside the christian belief.

as a white person i will be all over anothers white persons ass who makes a bigoted response.

as a heterosexual i will challenge and speak out against any homophobic comment.

yes, i feel a social responsibility. and i teach my boys to accept those social responsibilities. i feel that if i do not speak out, i am part of the problem.

[4th law of robotics]

70. Christian is a qualifier you chose for yourself

no one chose to be born male or female.

So believing the actions of other Christians reflects on you is different than believing the actions of others sharing your basic genitals reflects on you. You choose to be a member of a like minded philosophy. You don't choose to be a member of a gender.

I refuse to take blame or responsibility for the actions of another free and mentally competent adult not under my care.

Remember: it's only a small step from group responsibility to group punishment. If all women are responsible for the actions of all other women then isn't it fair to punish *all* women for the actions of *any* woman?

That kind of thinking, entire groups being responsible for the horrible actions of individuals, has led to some pretty nasty stuff in our history.

[seabeyond]

75. i didnt choose to be white, female or hetero, i still feel a responsibility and obligation to speak

out against wrong. i am ok with it.

you refuse? go at it haus. whatever floats your boat.

i CHOOSE to not think much of you for your refusal. not someone i would want in my corner, anyway.

maybe that is why i have people around me that i can honestly say, do not prove out the ugly, but the better of who we are. it is all i allow myself to be around. nothing less.

[4th law of robotics]

77. You chose to feel responsibility for others in that group

there is no legal, moral, or social reason for you to feel guilty for the actions of any other heterosexual (for instance) other than yourself.

i still feel a responsibility and obligation to speak out against wrong. i am ok with it.

Except you didn't say that. If you had meant that you wouldn't have felt the need to add so many qualifiers. "I feel obligated to speak out when someone is wrong" is not the same as "I feel obligated to speak out when someone who looks like me is wrong" .

By your own statements you feel no obligation to speak out against wrongs committed by men, or homosexuals, or non-whites. Meaning you are willing to ignore wrongness in the vast majority of the population.

i CHOOSE to not think much of you for your refusal. not someone i would want in my corner, anyway.

By your logic I shouldn't be in your corner. You're a woman. I'm not.

maybe that is why i have people around me that i can honestly say, do not prove out the ugly, but the better of who we are. it is all i allow myself to be around. nothing less.

Then maybe you should have just stuck with saying *people* should act appropriately. Not white people, or women, or heterosexuals.

[seabeyond]

79. show where i stated i felt guilt? you make things up. done with you. again, you prove

any time put into any post to you is a total waste of the persons time.

[4th law of robotics]

80. And this is the inevitable result of me holding you to your own words

You stated all those things. You just didn't like that I interpreted what you said in a different way than you wanted me to.

You say: I stand up when white people are wrong!

You want that to mean that you are a great moral person sticking it to those rambunctious whites.

I ask if that means you give non-whites a pass (if not why add the qualifier "white" at all if you're holding everyone to that standard) and you become indignant.

/and when this inevitably gets alerted on I request the Jurors please read the entire conversation to see that I am not putting words in anyones mouth, or making false accusations or engaging in personal attacks. I am responding fairly to what was stated to me.

[hifiguy]

88. The surest way to shut certain people up is

to quote their own words back to them. Denial is not just a river.....

[4th law of robotics]

63. Out of curiosity

are there any insights you wish ALL women were made aware of that the need to fight against when other women commit such infractions?

Or is it only men who are the broken gender in need of repair?

[seabeyond]

68. i gave you a couple of examples, did i not. nt

[4th law of robotics]

71. No, you did not.

Not at the time of my writing that comment certainly.

[a geek named Bob]

38. And fairly put...

Mind you, my experiences, from growing up..

Were all old school fighter pilots (pre-tailhook nonsense) and technical start up geeks.

NONE made rape jokes, nor "kept score..."

[Aerows]

47. I've learned

that men and women whom are secure in themselves typically don't act that way. Those who are raised with a sense of honor and love for their family don't act that way.

They honor themselves, their loved ones, and treat people fairly.

[a geek named Bob]

59. As I said...

works for me.

[hifiguy]

91. Exactly.

I was taught to be decent, polite and respectful to everyone unless I had a damned good reason not to be. Some people are just assholes, and that cuts across any sub-demographic you care to categorize: gender, orientation, race, religion, whatever. I was also taught to acknowledge and admit when I was proven wrong. Some people around here apparently never got that bit of wisdom.

[a geek named Bob]

102. When I'm wrong, I own up

Unless it's a felony, then I contact my lawyer...

[hifiguy]

104. That's a hell of a lot more honest and responsible than

scrubbing all your posts when you are called out on your transparent bullshit. That is not the act of an honest adult.

[a geek named Bob]

105. Okay...

are you saying I'm scrubbing all of my posts?

When I type, I sometimes screw up my spelling, so I go back and edit. It that the problem?

What part of my posts are transparent bullshit?

I'm confused...

[hifiguy]

107. No sir, I was not referring to you in the least.

I have absolutely no reason to believe you''re not a good guy. The only reason I will not name the person to whom I am referring are the DU rules about calling people out by name. That person has a lot to say on this thread, though.

[a geek named Bob]

108. oh... okay...

I was getting confused, to say the least.

Given my hobbies (model rockets, flying, high voltage experiments) the possibility of someone throwing the book is a problem...

Hence the comment.

Back to the comment.

I have to say that I find some of this thread to be quite interesting, in the perspective of "trust but verify..."

[4th law of robotics]

53. Indeed you did use a broad generalization

that's what this entire discussion has been about.

Broad generalizations such as yours would be immediately condemned as bigotry if directed at *any*other*group.

Re-write your last response to me but instead gear it towards blacks. Or jews. Or homosexuals. Or women.

Does it seem bigoted?

Well guess what: if it's bigoted towards everyone else it's . . . still bigoted against men.

[4th law of robotics]

48. How many rape jokes have I told?

Could you cite one?

Quit making "who gets the most women" a goal

Have I done this?

Don't sit there and tell me that many men don't do this.

And many do not. Some women do horrible things. I don't condemn the gender for it.

Correct your brothers

I have precisely one brother. As far as I know he doesn't do these things either.

Help them learn to respect women, even at the expense of your own ego that will take a hit by doing so

Er. . . what?

Maybe you are one of the ones that is a champion of women, I applaud that

Pretty much I try to live my life and treat people with respect. Call it what you like.

Do you consider yourself a champion of men?

But far too many are too cowardly to stand up to the perception that a man is only as good as those he subjugates, and many times, he turns on women.

How many? Could we get a percentage? And what percentage of those do you think I have control over?

Stand up for everyone, not just men.

By not telling rape jokes. By not raping women. By blowing a whistle every time my sick male brain thinks of raping women. Yeah I read that thread. Great stuff. Not particularly useful but I'm sure someone enjoyed it.

Stand up for gay people, stand up for women and stop thinking that everything is alright while men respect you. If women fear you, society isn't alright.

Some people have a fear of dogs. Maybe they were bit when little. Does the entire dog species share the blame for this? As far as I know no women fear me. Or men for that matter. I don't go out of my way to frighten people. So . . . what are you on about?

[Aerows]

58. I'm going to apologize to you, personally 4th Law

Since you seem to believe this was a personal attack designed specifically for you.

I hope that clears up any issues you have with my comments, because they were not directed at you. Other than my saying that, and what I said below, I won't be responding further because I don't think it will do either of us any good, and I'm not interested in points today.

[hifiguy]

94. Well done, Aerows.

You showed real class in this post. Youse good people. There are some who could stand to learn from your excellent example.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. I Didn't Get That Thread

Men aren't wired to be jerks and if I acted like a jerk I wouldn't expect to be excused for acting like a jerk because someone thought I was wired that way.


We are all products of our environment.

[seabeyond]

20. thank you. i know too many men in my life that are not jerks.

they are not wired like that. why would the majority of men NOT be jerks if it was wired. i could figure there would be a handful that are not jerks.... fighting that wiring so, if it was about wiring. but, since almost ALL the men and boys in my life are not jerks, i tend to believe not being a jerk is the nature of who men are.

[ismnotwasm]

44. That's what bugs me about some of the knee jerk responses

I'm married to a decent and honorable man who understands those two concepts. In, fact his 'biology' is interactive; he protects me, I protect him. He honors me, I honor him.

That 'wiring' excuse is just weird.

But, just as an example, my husband doesn't allow disparaging talk about women in his presence. He doesn't whine about the state of manhood, he tries to be a good human being--which means acknowledging the social ills of gender and doing something about it rather than saying "I don't act like that; it's not my problem"

[seabeyond]

52. yes ism. that is all. i was raised with it. i have it in my life now.

i really do not get the other side. it is not and has never been in my world.

[Aerows]

54. An excellent point that can't be stated enough

"He doesn't whine about the state of manhood, he tries to be a good human being--which means acknowledging the social ills of gender and doing something about it rather than saying "I don't act like that; it's not my problem"

Good people do the same in acknowledging racism, sexism, homophobia, or any other type of bigotry designed to keep one element of humanity in fear and subservient.

[4th law of robotics]

11. If you were to swap out any other group . . .

it would be blatant bigotry and would not be accepted here.

/let me tell you about how this black guy made me uncomfortable on a train once and why black people need to learn to behave better in public. Yeah, that would last a whopping 5 seconds.

[LanternWaste]

15. When I come across as post such as "why do Christians hate X so much?"

When I come across as post such as "why do Christians hate X so much?" I ask myself, "do I hate X?" If the answer is no (as it most usually is), I simply infer that the post is referring to Christians who actually do hate X, rather than all Christians in general, and from that, presume I am not a target of the posters' question.

I'd been thinking for a long time that was a pretty standard and default inference to make regarding almost any topic in the world, but maybe many people need additional grammatical and academic qualifiers so as not to feel targeted or punished-- because to be honest, however intently I look for the punishment I receive for being male as you reference, I simply do not see it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. In The Specific Instance

In the specific instance there were four men who acted like jerks on the train and one of the jerks was potentially violent To me these instances were used as examples of normal male behavior as opposed to instances of aberrant male behavior.

[seabeyond]

26. i think it was more a normal womans experience.... not necessarily normal male behavior.

i really did not read anywhere that it was implied that most men acted this way. maybe i missed it. i did not read all posts. i know in that thread i said often.... it is not the majority of men. or said it a couple times anyway.

but.... it is a pretty normal experience for women.

if you interpret that as a norm for mens behavior, that would not be accurate.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. I Read The Threads With Acute Interest Because I Ride The Metro Everyday

There are all kinds of people on those trains and if there were several people on that train I think "Bike Guy" would have been stopped.

[seabeyond]

34. true. but, that really wasnt what was being discussed. you stated you felt that the thread was

saying ALL men behave this way and i dont think that is what the thread or posts said at all. that the majority of women have experienced this. but, not that all men behave like this. further, there were a handful of men that actually considered what they would do in that situation. i found that conversation interesting. and i know ALL the men i know would have done something to step in. i do not see a majority or even a strong majority of men act this way.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. There Are Live Video Cameras On The Metro.

I know on the buses there are live video cameras and a emergency response button. I almost saw a guy pull a gun on the 78 route one early evening.

If it went too far I might have hit the emergency button. There would have been sheriffs at the next stop.


Who knows if "Bike Guy" was a sociopath. He sounded like one.


But if there was other guys on the bus "Bike Guy" would have been stopped.

[LanternWaste]

42. That's what you inferred, which may or may not be what was actually implied

"To me these instances were used as examples of normal male behavior..."

That's what you inferred, which may or may not be what was actually implied. I read the post you reference and did not in fact, infer her illustration was an example of how all men acted. Bear in mind, how we may interpret a thing often illustrates our own biases as well as any biases implied by the author.



(e.g. literary critic Jane Resh Thomas once wrote that Watership Down by Richard Adams (one of my favorite books, and how I was introduced to her critiques) "draws upon an anti-feminist social tradition..." This is how she inferred it, rather than how Adams implied it, as per his own essay-response to her original piece.

[hifiguy]

96. Context is everything.

And equally as important is who is making the statement.

[seabeyond]

23. it seems to be with all issues (not just some) but, this issue with SOME men. lol. women use men

as a wallet.

easy enough for me. i get that some women do. and i would have a discussion how i feel about women that use men as a wallet.

maybe that is why this argument that we are not clarifying SOME with every post doesnt do much for me. though i try to respect the need for SOME.

[Scout]

85. well that is probably because you are reasonable and logical.

"When I come across as post such as "why do Christians hate X so much?" I ask myself, "do I hate X?" If the answer is no (as it most usually is), I simply infer that the post is referring to Christians who actually do hate X, rather than all Christians in general, and from that, presume I am not a target of the posters' question."

excellent post, thank you.

[liberalhistorian]

33. You have a very valid point and I agree,

especially as the mother of a wonderful young man who deserves to be judged by his character and personality and not gender.

But let me ask you, though: Do you feel the same way toward the men here (and I can even name specific posters, but won't due to the rules) who consider child support to be "male enslavement", women who receive it to be "greedy whores", and who don't believe in date rape? And who are quite vocal about it?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. No Means No

And child support should be the primary responsibility of the parent most able to provide it, regardless of gender.


I hope nobody here defended "date rape". That's messed up.

[Zoeisright]

43. Wrong.

Any man who fathers a child is legally required to support it. And child support payments are RIDICULOUSLY low. The average is only $280 a month. And how much does it cost to raise a child? $840 a month. Which is borne by most single women.

http://www.amptoons.com/blog/2006/01/18/mens-rights-myth-typical-child-support-payments-are-insanely-high/

[liberalhistorian]

51. Thank you. I was awarded an amount even lower than

$280 a month and was lucky to get that several times a year. Meanwhile, his wife taught him how to game the system, get a job, then quit just as child support catches up with you, get another job, lather, rinse, repeat. She didn't want him to have to pay one dime of either support or help with other things (clothes, school supplies and fees, etc., etc.), but let her own ex be one day late with his payment and she'd be hollering across the state. And, as we all know, kids cost a HELL of a lot more than $280 a month.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

55. Let Me Rephrase It

Both parents should contribute to the raising of their offspring.


But I would hope if either parent is earning significantly more than the other parent that parent should contribute more to the upbringing of that child, in fairness to the child.

[datasuspect]

90. that's why the decision to have children should never be taken lightly

by either participant.

[hfojvt]

35. except that the thread in quesion in not about "men behaving badly"

it is about the experinces of women, which men, not having actually lived as women, would not otherwise know about or understand.

Often they seem to hate it though, when it is suggested that men have many of the same experiences. They, after all, do not know what it is like to live as a man.

Neither do I, in general, having only lived my own particular life with my own peculiar characteristics and locations and events. So I have no idea what all men experience, and can only share my own.

[datasuspect]

39. all sex is rape

and all men are rapists

[seabeyond]

45. link to any thread or any comment any duer made that all sex is rape and

all men are rapist.

just one.

i know this is something repeatedly lately, regularly. but, i have yet to see any poster say all sex is rape and all men are rapist.

[datasuspect]

50. i don't have the time to data mine DU

but that is the smell i get from some of the extreme viewpoints.

on a lighter note, the intrenets would be more boring if it wasn't for identity politics.

[seabeyond]

56. you would be wrong. i have yet to see one woman state, ever, that all sex is rape. or

that all men are rapist. everyone would be on the posters ass.

not one.

it may be how you interpreted a post. and i would suggest you did not interpret it accurately.

[datasuspect]

60. well, suggestions are like assholes

everyone's got one. or something, you must forgive me, english is not my mother tongue.

if i had a dime for every suggestion i got, i'd be as rich as Mitt R-Money.

sometimes though, you have to read between the lines, and the more extremist opinions have the "stench" of what i was alluding to.

see, there's a difference between what is literally said and what is meant. sometimes the meaning of what someone says isn't necessarily contained in what they are specifically saying.

I know it's tricky.

[seabeyond]

66. mmmm. that does not work for me, to accuse someone of something that i do not know is true or not

i can think it is possible, but it does not make it true. i ask, or i let it go. but, i certainly dont post it as a fact.

i have not met one woman, in a lifetime, that has ever suggest, hinted or stated that all men are rapists or all sex is rape.

i have to figure that if in all of my life, i do not know one person that believes that, it is not true. and if you are saying it is merely your guess thru your interpretation, i wont take that as a fact.

[a geek named Bob]

103. The original post in question

assumes that men need to be told not to rape, in a variety of circumstances...

that's a pretty heavy suggestion.

Either the poster is attempting (badly so, in my opinion) to "start a conversation" (which usually means a "guided conversation&quot

-Or-

They actually believe those statements

-Or-

They are trying social control via assigned guilt.

None of these is a worthy endeavor.

[4th law of robotics]

67. Unless you're trying to be clever

(how do you see someone say something? ha ha) that is a strange comment.

This very sentiment has been expressed by a number of radfems.

Perhaps you haven't seen these rad-fems. But surely you've been made aware of them?

Sometimes they will qualify "all sex is rape" with "under the patriarchy". But given their definition of the patriarchy (everywhere and always) that is a pretty useless qualifier.

/and you were active in the porn = rape wars not so long ago. Given that 80% or more men use porn . . .

[seabeyond]

69. he was talking about posts on du. link, or it did not happen. nt

[4th law of robotics]

72. You said:

you would be wrong. i have yet to see one woman state, ever, that all sex is rape. or

One woman. Not one female DUer.

Don't blame me for your comments not being specific. I didn't write them.

[datasuspect]

84. wrong again bubba

my initial post didn't reference anything related to DU.

just the smell in the wind where these types of posts are concerned.

that's all.

[MadrasT]

97. Oh, horsefeathers. You specifically referenced DU in post #50.

i don't have the time to data mine DU but that is the smell i get from some of the extreme viewpoints.

That's all.

[datasuspect]

100. that wasn't my initial post

and it was in response to someone else referencing DU.

try harder.

[seabeyond]

101. no one on du, no one i ever met, no one you ever met, but hey... some woman in this world said it.

and that is what your outrage is about?

really?

[Warren Stupidity]

64. Then you should retract your implied assertion that this has been seriously stated here.

It is your responsibility to defend your assertions with the substantiating data. if you do not have the time, don't post crap like that.

I get a smell too. Smells like MRA.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

73. What's MRA?

[seabeyond]

76. this is the meme from mens rights activists. all men are rapist. all sex is rape.

then, they can dismiss, discount, ignore any conversation on the issue.

[4th law of robotics]

78. You're aware of where that originated right?

People didn't just make it up out of the blue to smear rad-fems.

Frankly if they had it would have been too outrageous to gain any traction.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

87. I Don't Like Those MRA Guys

They want to punish a whole group, in their case women, for the actions or perceived actions of a few.

[seabeyond]

89. i was for the groups when they first started addressing real issues in a real way. the last decade

and a half they have become a hateful group. there are still issues that men have that i am all for speaking out with them. but, what i am seeing today is a real concern. and it is a concerted effort. and the nets allows it to grow.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

93. I Just Didn't Understand The Acronym

I am familiar with them and a lot of their arguments, especially when it comes to custody cases. They disagree with the presumption that the mother is always the most fit parent. IMHO, it's simple. The most fift parent is the parent that can demonstrate he or she is the most fit parent. The court has to use their wisdom to what constitutes a fit parent.

[seabeyond]

95. agreed. and that is pushing aside the societal gender roles that create a non truth as a truth.

that would be an important issue.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

98. I try Not To See Race, Color, Gender, or Gender Orientation

It's seems cliched but I judge folks by the "content of their character".

[seabeyond]

99. sigh...

hear ya. i do oppose the conditioning though. it creates a self that is not authentic, who we are. there is no freedom in that. i am raising two boys. i trust they can figrue out who they are much better than all of society put together.

[4th law of robotics]

74. Smells like the Metal Roofing Alliance?

Well yeah I guess standing out in the sun on a metal roof all day would tend to generate an odor.

But it's not really their fault. Let's see you smell lie roses doing that job 8 hours a day.

[datasuspect]

81. or MRSA

posting on the internet is not like defending a dissertation.

it's like scribbling on a truck stop wall.

[Dash87]

82. Even Dworkin did not believe that, and her

Views were considered extreme.

[datasuspect]

83. i just report the news

i don't have a pony in any of these races. in other words, people who get all passionate about internet posting are all a bit off kilter (it seems).

seems like i stirred up a kettle of turds today.

oopsie!

[snooper2]

40. So there's more to this than just pissing outside?

[seabeyond]

46. lmfao....

and why... always a tree. my kids were naked in summer in back yard until they choose not to be anymore. always a tree. why?

aim practice, lol

[lapislzi]

61. Most men are just fine.

I have no problem with most men, although sometimes many act in ways that I do not understand.

The problem lies in the simple fact of being born female. You just don't know which men are going to be the problem. They're not wearing signs, and you never know when you're going to encounter one, or how bad he's going to be.

So you're on your guard. A lot. In ways that people who are born male do not necessarily have to be.

Example: I often have to work with the public at trade shows. As a representative of my company, I'm expected to dress nicely and present myself in a way that reflects well on the company. So, what's going through my mind as I walk into the Javits Center to start my day?

"Is this skirt too short?"
"Am I showing too much cleavage? Not enough?"
"Is that jerk from yesterday going to pinch my butt again?"
"Will the boss be annoyed if I'm not sufficiently dressed up?"
"Stop asking me if I have a boyfriend! Can't you see my wedding ring?"

My male colleagues are wearing suits. Nobody comments on their mode of dress, and nobody pinches their butts. Nobody asks them if they have a girlfriend or if they want to go for drinks after the show. Nobody asks what hotel they're staying at.

This is NOT the norm. Maybe one man in a hundred is a problem. But, you never know which man it's going to be. So you're cautious. You try to prepare. You always look for an out.

I am perhaps citing an example that's extreme, but plenty of women have similar questions running through their minds all day long. On public transportation, I prefer to sit alone or with another woman. When driving, I avoid eye contact with male drivers. When walking, I try to avoid eye contact with men. Is it because I am antisocial? No. It is because I do not wish to engage with strangers unless it is on my terms. It's because you never know which man is eyeing you and thinking that you're public property, an object to be ogled.

I would expect that DU men have a much lower instance of the behaviors I've described above, but I'm pretty sure that most women have come into contact with at least some of them, and have their own plans of action to avoid them.

[LadyHawkAZ]

92. Yes, it's wrong

How other people treat us is not our responsibility or our fault. How we treat other people IS.

[treestar]

106. You're right, I believe that

no one should be judged on their gender. It is too easy to fall into that.

Present company always excepted! I do love to debate how things are better for men in life but that's from what I get from right wingers and others who always insist men naturally have these advantages and it always has to be that way due to biology and hard wiring. But I'm only debating those who claim that stuff.