Why Would Putin Advise Trump to Assassinate an Iranian General?

[MineralMan]

That's easy. Putin's goal is to disrupt the United States government. That has always been his goal. He helped Donald Trump get elected for that reason, and he's now helping to destroy Trump for the same reason.

Vladimir Putin is not "Trump's buddy." Trump is just another tool in Putin's bag.

Disrupting US politics is, for Putin, a primary goal. That's because the United States is Putin's largest competitor nation.

So, if Putin was behind Trump's assassination action, you will soon see Putin condemning it. It's all a game of International Intrigue. It's no more complicated than that. Putin has, in Donald J. Trump, a willing, stupid participant in Putin's plan to destroy the United States as a power in global leadership.

It's not complicated. It's as simple as can be.

[MineralMan]

1. "Donald, you should make friends with Kim Jong Un." - Vlad Putin

There's another example of this whole thing. Kim isn't someone anyone should make friends with. He has no friends. He manipulates people and then kills them. Putin's advice to Trump is always aimed at throwing Trump into the gears of international relations. He knows Kim Jong Un. He also knows that Trump will do as he suggests.

[at140]

102. Simple....Putin badly needs higher oil prices.....nt

[evertonfc]

2. I doubt Putin approves

As sourced by the NYT, Trump spent week watching tv and fuming over the embassy attack before ordering strike. Putin isn't crazy. Nationalist to the bone but not crazy.

[MineralMan]

5. I'm quite certain that Putin approves of the effects, though.

See, what Putin says to Trump may well not be what Putin would do. It's what he wants Trump to do, for the results, not the act.

[brush]

61. I would think Putin wants to keep his malleable puppet in place...

though for four more years of the instability, destruction, divisiveness and chaos he causes to our institutions, our nation and international relationships.

[MineralMan]

63. I don't think that's necessarily true.

I don't play chess at that level, though.

[brush]

77. You don't think he wants the trump chaos to continue?

[GreenPartyVoter]

80. Maybe he knows something about who will win the election.

[woundedkarma]

64. Or maybe he's hedging his bets

If trump wins, four more years of all that.

If trump loses, the united states is up to it's ears in war with iran for 10 or 20 years.

Either way, Putin wins.

[Cosmocat]

23. Their relationship is not linear

If he REALLY did not want 45 to mess with Iran he would have nixed it LONG before it reached this point.

My guess is that he does not care as long as we don't light up any of his oil interests there.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

97. I haven't seen much mention of this, but military hardware...

... sales to Iran and Iraq if things flare up. Saddam was one of the USSR's best customers for military hardware, whether considered, "obsolete", or not.

[getagrip_already]

31. Putin absolutely doesn't want iran to be a regional super power.....

He has issues with ethnic unrest at home to deal with. A surging Iran would surely play in his sandbox. He wants iran wobbly and needing him. He doesn't care about iran except as a threat to him and a foil to us. His goal may to turn iran into another syria. totally dependent on russia for protection, split into areas controlled by putins forces directly,

So while putin doesn't want to see us in iran directly, he won't care if they get bloodied up. It's probably even his plan. It will further turn the region against us.

Win-win-win. Are you sick of it yet? Vlad isn't.

[woundedkarma]

65. I think you're right

There are so many parts of this situation that plays right into his hands. But the linking of what will happen in Iran to what happened in Syria... I think you're dead on.

I knew Putin was the big bad for years before trump came out of the woodwork.

People asked Obama why he didn't do more in Syria... he didn't answer but I remember him looking like the saddest man in the world. He saw where Syria was going and he knew that any move he made would play right into Putin's hands. He kept the U.S. out of it for the most part but he couldn't protect the people.

Putin. There's a reason people think he's the boogie man.. he fing is. This guy is a super villain and we have no super heroes to fight him. No James Bond.

[dewsgirl]

101. Trump would not have done it without Putin's approval, you

can take that to the bank. He likely directed it, and Trump being angry with the protesters, who knows what Putin told him about that. Everything leads to Putin.

[Clash City Rocker]

3. Distrust of the US pushes Iran closer to Russia

If you’ve read Rachel Maddow’s book, you know that Russia needs to control oil interests to be financially viable. The more of the Middle East Putin can control, the happier he is.

[MineralMan]

6. Yes, exactly.

Now, it's very likely that the Iraqi government will order US troops to leave the country. Whether that will happen remains to be seen, but removing US troops gives Putin more influence in that arena. There will be many other actions negative to the United States due to this assassination. It will damage our influence in the region.

Why wouldn't Putin want to set such a thing up?

[OhNo-Really]

14. Oil? Iran/Iraq have 300,000 million barrels

More than Saudi Arabia

Chaos is a tool, right?

Link to tweet

[MineralMan]

18. Yes, of course. And how does Russian benefit if oil prices go up?

Last edited Sun Jan 5, 2020, 02:47 PM - Edit history (1)

Well, Russia sells oil to European countries. Price increases mean more money flowing into Russia's depleted coffers and into the pockets of the oligarchs.

I do not doubt for a second that Trump had a conversation with Putin before ordering that attack in Iraq. Just checking in to make sure it was OK. Why wouldn't Putin tell him, "Oh sure, Donald. Great idea! You should do it!"

Putin is smart enough to know that the country hurt the most would be the US. Russia won't be hurt at all by the backlash.

[bronxiteforever]

81. +1 Oil Prices Climb Higher On Huge Crude Inventory Draw Jan 03, 2020

Higher prices for Vlad are good news for Vlad.
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Oil-Prices-Climb-Higher-On-Huge-Crude-Inventory-Draw.html

[MineralMan]

82. Yes. Higher crude prices help oil producing companies.

No question about that at all.

[OhNo-Really]

16. Deja Vu Troop Removal

The US and the Iraqi Government sign the US-Iraq Status of Forces Agreement providing for the withdrawal of US troops from Iraqi cities by 30 June 2009 and a complete withdrawal of US forces from Iraq by the end of 2011

Blamed for opening door to Daesh.

We keep rewinding & pushing play

[uponit7771]

11. THIS !!!! Now Russians feel safer with a US government pushed further away from its borders

... looks like Iraq is wanting US soldiers to leave

[SleeplessinSoCal]

52. Does Rachel elaborate on Russian weapons sales?

Turkey made a deal at the last disastrous decision in Syria. Erdogan and Putin have stuff on trump.

[wnylib]

105. For Putin, Iran is a two-fer. He gets Iraq, too,

as Iraq joins in solidarity with Iran and orders US troops out. Trump is Putin's bitch.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. Does Trump know that when he follows the boss' orders,

the boss will then publicly condemn his actions? Is that part of the deal - "Just go along with it, comrade, and Trump Tower Moscow gets built, someday" - or is Trump just too stupid to realize he's being played?

[MineralMan]

9. Occam's Razor says that Trump is too stupid to realize he's being played.

That's what I think.

If you have watched Putin's face when he and Trump are together, you'll notice that Putin tends to smirk when Trump is not looking at him. Donald J. Trump is an easy mark and is easily influenced.

[pandr32]

22. tRump's face lights up like a boy who sees Santa around Putin

I can never forget watching a clip of a miserable tRumpy forced to be in the same room with world leaders who think he's an insufferable moron--and then he sees Putin who just arrived. His face lit up with joy. It was shocking.

[MineralMan]

32. Yes. Putin knows just how to work Trump.

He flatters him to his face, but laughs at him behind his back.

[Leghorn21]

38. Yep

Shocking AND disgusting, p

[pandr32]

95. That's it! Disgusting.

[cwydro]

56. I remember that.

Shocking indeed. And frightening.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

96. +1...

... I have noticed that, too. I am hearing impaired so reading body language, and of course lips and facial expressions are activities I partake of everyday.

[pandr32]

104. I am borderline deaf

I do the same, but even people who have great hearing couldn't miss what is obviously fawning delight on tRumpy's face at the sight of Putin.

[Phoenix61]

7. If no one can get oil from the Middle East

there will be increased pressure to relax sanctions against Russia so they can sell their oil. Destabilizing the Middle East moves that goal forward. Screwing the US in the process is just lagniappe.

[MineralMan]

12. Further, anything that raises global oil prices brings more money

into the Russian coffers. Russia just shut down one of its oil pipelines into Europe. Probably for the same reason. Shortages raise prices.

[GoCubsGo]

8. Yup. To sow more chaos.

[TheBlackAdder]

10. It's not a stretch that a Putin proxy could attack US positions and then Iran gets blamed for it.

[MineralMan]

13. I don't think there's any need for Russia to do that.

Iran is bound to attack US interests in the Middle East now. That will get Trump to go over there and blast the crap out of some Iranian assets. Those are natural consequences that will come from the General's assassination.

Putin can sit back and decry the violence, blame the "evil" United States, and build cred in the Middle East.

Watch.

[TheBlackAdder]

20. True.

I firmly believe that Iran is going to assassinate in kind. Striking an embassy won't exact revenge.

They will find someone close to Trump and no amount of Secret Service protection will save them.

[smirkymonkey]

29. That might not be a bad thing.

Especially if it's Mitch, Barr or one of his other major enablers.

[MineralMan]

33. It could be, but Iran will have trouble acting within the US.

If they do it, it will be somewhere else.

[lark]

49. I'm thinking multiple drumpf properties could be targets?

Along with the military and embassies and their personnel and any American citizens anywhere in the ME, I'd think these would all be high value and the latter easily accessible.

Stupid, stupid drumpf for thinking Iran wouldn't retaliate or for seeking that as all out WW3 - again being told China and Russia would stay on the sidelines, when they would not.

[MineralMan]

50. Maybe. Maybe not.

I don't know what Iran will decide to attack in retaliation.

I have zero insights into that at all.

Most likely, we will just have to wait and see. Iran's resources are concentrated in the Middle East, though. So, I expect most things they do will happen in that region.

Iran will act according to its capabilities, which don't extend all that far, really.

[lark]

51. drumpf has properties in Saudi Arabia and Turkey - those are proximate to Iranian assets.

They are the ones I was thinking of. I too would be surprised if they hit us here - but it could happen. I really have no idea of their capabilities - but I think we are all about to find that out sooner rather than later.

[MineralMan]

54. Most of Trump properties are not owned by Trump at all.

He licences the brand, instead. That brand is becoming more and more worthless, even as I write. Attacking buildings with Trump's name on them is a waste of time, frankly. He doesn't care.

[lark]

58. I really think he cares about the one in Turkey - it's his prize.

How much does he cares about them - well nothing at all compared to stopping his removal from office - obviously. He obviously also cares noting about innocent American citizens in the ME, the thousands of military people, and only cares about showing his dick so his supporters stop his impeachment. He correctly identified that they can't tell the difference between juvenile striking out for no good reason at all and strategic action which benefits us. They won't believe he's wagging the dog, and that he's that care less about AMERICAN lives.

[Scarsdale]

36. The ONLY person tRump

cares about, apart from himself, is Ivanka. Nobody else even comes close. Not the Slovanian slut or Beavis and Butthead. Certainly not Maleria's son, Barron. tRump does not even recognize him as HIS kid. There is nobody that tRump cares about in the government, not a soul. He does love Putin, however, and Russian oligarchs.

[luvtheGWN]

46. Trump loves only himself and his daughter.

He is beholden to Putin and the oligarchs.

[Frustratedlady]

15. I also suspect Putin is the one disrupting the area below us and keeping it stirred up.

The Russians seem to be spending a lot of time down there, whether it is military exercises or what. Venezuela, Brazil, etc., even Cuba. Why? That makes me extremely nervous.

If Putin keeps the Middle East stirred up, then he can sit back and watch it implode.

If Trump wanted to do someone in, he could have made a better choice. Just sayin'.

[Baitball Blogger]

17. Except for one thing.

Putin distanced himself from the assassination by claiming that Trump was under pressure from impeachment and accepted bad advice from his own intel agencies. Wouldn't you think that Trump would feel like he has been had?

[MineralMan]

19. Well, of course that's just what Putin would do.

He advises Trump privately to do a stupid thing that benefits Putin, and then condemns the stupid thing publicly.

Trump is too stupid to know he's being played. He thinks Putin is his buddy and wouldn't advise him badly. If he asks, Putin will just say, "Donald, you know I have to condemn your action, because politics. You did the right thing, though." Never underestimate Trump's stupidity. It's boundless.

Putin lies. That's not news.

[patphil]

26. My sentiment exactly.

Trump is just too stupid to understand international politics, and Putin is one of the best at operating in the international political theater.
You can almost see the strings.

[evilhime]

21. Don't forget Belarus

Putin cut off their oil in the dead of winter to coerce them into becoming another satellite of Putin's and they weren't coming to the table well enough in their economic negotiations. So he cuts off their oil but no one is watching because they are all focused on what the infant in chief is doing in Iran.

[MineralMan]

34. Yes, I noticed that.

[dalton99a]

55. +1. Putin is utterly ruthless

https://apnews.com/f838df5ec695041388b96f4388370b13
Russia halts oil supplies to Belarus in push for closer ties
by YURAS KARMANAU
January 3, 2020

[Martin Eden]

24. Trump is at best a useful idiot for Putin

More likely Putin has long had leverage over Trump, and this POtuS is guilty of treason.

[ecstatic]

25. Also, Suleiman may have been in putin's way.

Removing him increased putin's indirect control over Iran.

[MineralMan]

35. That could well be.

[Captain Zero]

99. This

exactly. And who better to do it than a stupid American President.

[duforsure]

27. I totally agree

And why Putin claimed our intel was setting trump up, and just another indication Putin was involved in this. He wanted higher oil prices to profit from, and to hurt our economy for revenge against us by driving energy costs up. Trump has to do as Putin suggest he do for fear he'll expose many, many things against him. Having trump do this strike also causes a lot more costs which will drive our higher deficit even higher. We'll also know trump lied about a imminent threat from Pentagon officials, and numerous officials recently resigned, so if it comes out trump is trying to go after these people be caused they exposed this, it's telling that trump was aware it was illegal and did it anyway. It's all falling apart on trump and Putin , and backfiring badly on them both for this. I also suspect the nuclear systems buildup in Russia, NK, and in Iran now. is putins doing

[Traildogbob]

28. Other goal....

Is to destroy US in the eyes of the world. Makes us look like war criminal, resource stealing, regime changing thugs run amuck, a proven track record. Everyone will be against US and joining forces to destroy the evil empire through war within and abroad, plus economic collapse. How we gonna finance another credit card war? We owe China. China, Iran, Russia Navy training ops last week. Pootie encouraged it, with no record of conversation, knowing Iran would react, probably with global approval at the endless US aggression, to take resources, install corrupt leaders that wanna play mafia style control of everything. Russia will join Iran and Middle East that dispise US arrogance. NATO will say fuck you trump and US, you wanted it, you broke it, you alienated us, you wallow in the bed you made. MAGA!

[smirkymonkey]

30. +1000

An all around win!

[Scarsdale]

42. I wonder if the gop

has finally realized what a mess they have caused? Putting a person as stupid as tRump into the WH. They wanted someone who was capable of "just signing any bills they sent his way" I wonder what happened to that Grover Nordquist by the way, the brains behind that? Too bad everything got out of control with tRump and his oversized ego. He really thought he actually won the election, and was popular. More like the emperer with no clothes, stupid as HELL. Not only THAT, he brought his just as stupid "kids" along to help him run the country. Total disaster all around, now the gop has to pretend everything is hunky dory because they got lots of cash from Russia. Where is little sniveling Lindsey now? Still golfing at Mar-a-Fatso?

[smirkymonkey]

45. They should have know what would happen when they threw their support behind

a two-bit gangster wannabe and his grifting, idiot kids. They have done more to fuck up this country in the last three years than anyone could have possibly imagined. We still probably don't know the half of it. I always knew that if they let him stick around long enough that he would get us into a war, and this one could end up being the one that wipes out half of humanity.

[Nasruddin]

37. Russian goals

I don't know how much influence Russia had over this whole caper. Perhaps we are going to find out.
I think they have roughly 3 goals:
1 - Draw Iran closer. There's an alliance of sorts, but on the surface it doesn't appear strong yet
2 - Reduce US presence in the middle east
3 - Break up the old world order so Russia can re-emerge as a world power

It looks like #1 & #2 are likely. Evicting US troops from Iraq makes US presence in Syria untenable.
Syria & Iraq can be drawn unimpeded into client states of Russian & Iran.

That really puts pressure on the rest of the middle east, particularly Turkey, which is already drawing closer to Russia.

#3 - I am thinking any Iranian response to this caper is going to be in the Gulf, or against the morally bankrupt Saudi kingdom. Not in Europe. Probably not Israel. If the Russians have influence over this process and over Iran, they will try to split up the western alliance. Attacking Saudi hangs the US right on its own policy contradictions.

I'm wondering if we might not see a public alliance announced between Russia & Iran.

I don't think Putin wants more disruption of the US government. It might lead to regime change here.

[relayerbob]

47. Disagree on your last point

They absolutely want more disruption here. They want us to split or end up in a 2nd civil war. Have no doubt about it, Putin wants us reduced to a smattering of third world countries, as revenge for the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

[Still In Wisconsin]

39. Putin seems to be very competent.

By competent, I mean simply that he is good at accomplishing his objectives, not that these objectives are in any way noble or good.

[MineralMan]

41. Putin is a smart man, but an amoral man, as well.

That's a very dangerous combination.

Trump is a stupid man, and also amoral. Putin works him like a cheap hammer.

[sandensea]

40. If any foreign leader persuaded Cheeto to do this, it was probably Nutty yahoo

"You really think this could get me re-elected?"

"Donald! When have I ever lied to you? (you witless dolt)"

[MineralMan]

43. Perhaps. That's another possibility.

However, I doubt that Netanyahu really is very interested in inflammatory influences on Iran right at the moment. He has other issues he's dealing with.

[sandensea]

76. I'd say that Bibi's scandals and likely removal, make a war with Iran MORE likely rather than less.

The very things are motivating his pal Cheeto to try to provoke a war: it's the perfect distraction (plus a great money-making opportunity).

That said, I don't think Iran will bite. They know Cheeto is hoping, wishing, pining, and praying for war - and the last thing they want, is to help him get re-elected.

[oldsoftie]

85. but i think if he did it for the election, he wouldve waited till about Sep/Oct.

The public has a short term memory when it comes to politics. This is a great story NOW, but by June it will be old news.It doesnt make any more sense than those claiming Pres Obama killed Bin Laden for the election, which is what many on the right said back then. That was over a year from the election; he wouldve waited.

[sandensea]

92. Well, we are in an election year already

And unlike an assassination, wars tend to be prolonged - especially any conflagration involving Iran. We'd still be very much in the thick of it in November, should war begin (God forbid).

Cheeto himself has openly mused about much he'd like to be a "war president - like Bush."

He knows it would practically guarantee him re-election, and additional powers besides (his favorite thing in the world, next to money and Ivanka).

[relayerbob]

44. Putin will be the winner in any Iran-US conflict

100% Agreed with the OP.

We've already given them Syria, and soon Iraq. We attack Iran, they will have a permanent ally for at least a generation. They already stage joint naval drills, have used Iranian airbases as refueling stops and sell them advanced arms. Saudi Arabia, despite happily taking our money, appears to have an excellent friendship with Putin and Russia also.

They will publicly condemn all the US actions, while provoking Trump to be more and more insane. They'll play "good cop" and make us appear as the rogue aggressor nation. Putin's playing 4-D chess, while Trump is playing with blocks in his high chair. I don't believe for a moment that they are upset with the assassination.

Their longer term goal is to split the US into pieces as happened to the USSR. Sadly, it's working, and a large number of US citizens are so blind, deaf and dumb that they will let it happen.

WW3? It's already on, kids, and we are losing badly. No WMD required.

[Warpy]

48. Because it's a win-win for Russia

Soleimani was a pretty old dude and was in the crosshairs of a lot of countries, whether or not they admit it, chances are his replacement, hand picked and well trained in chaos, stepped into place the second the news broke. IOW, the loss would have been catastrophic 25 years ago but isn't now.

NATO is further weakened by Dumdum's idiocy, shooting his mouth off to his stupid children and assorted riffraff at Mar a Lago but keeping Congress and our allies in the dark.

Iraq has already voted on a resolution to expel US troops and is said to be considering a draft, getting us out of the region except for a couple of bases in the UAE, and those are getting a little shaky, also.

So Putin gets a weak NATO on the edge of fracturing, the US out of most of the Middle East, our government in a constitutional crisis, and everybody else fighting us on his behalf. It's so obvious who Dumdum is working for. I'm astonished so many people just don't get it yet.

[MineralMan]

57. Well, he wasn't really that old.

It's all symbolic, really. Of course there are people to take his place. But, that's not the point, really. A martyr has value because he's dead, not because he's alive.

Trump martyred him. That increases his significance exponentially. Symbolism is more powerful than individuals.

[Warpy]

67. That too, another very good point

and both Iraq and Iran are playing it up as much as they can, even though a lot of Iraqiis are likely relieved he's out of the picture permanently.

[gordianot]

53. A mid winter war in the Northern Hemisphere is really good timing.

Russians understand how that works.

[Voltaire2]

59. We appear ridiculous when we insist that Putin is calling all the shots. NT.

[MineralMan]

62. Are you including yourself in that "we?"

Trump is well-known to ask Putin for advice when he plans to do something. He likes to get his approval.

Pretty much everything here is speculation at this point. I can play in that game, too.

[Voltaire2]

66. If I do that then yes.

If you have evidence that Trump consulted with Putin about Iran please provide it. But you don't of course. Russia was part of the Obama era Iran nuclear deal, and it has been an Iran ally for quite a while, including in Syria where Iran, Syria, and Russia worked together to both block US efforts to overthrow the Syrian government and to destroy ISIS. I think it is actually absurd to think that Russia wanted this mess. This is all on us, on our awful president and his uniformed bully-boy world view. It is not puppet-master Putin, we don't get off the hook based on stupid conspiracy theories.

[MineralMan]

69. You know, I think I'll just keep right on posting as I see fit.

You can do the same.

[Voltaire2]

71. That is the essence of discussion.

[MineralMan]

72. ..

[2naSalit]

60. Is it possible that it could be

a joint effort? I actually see two possible scenarios to what the back story is and the two may intersect somehow as well.

One involves pooty directly as he was one of the three big guys who were having military practice together ...and guess who wasn't invited. The other is that this could benefit SA and Bibi, specifically, so there's that. I think it's a lot about SA as the war on that peninsula is costly and they want revenge for the recent oilfield attack. You can't go around disrupting the flow of oil money so that was just too much for the MBS murder regime. Pooty and MBS are buddies, -45 doesn't belong to that club though he'd sell everybody on earth's life and soul to belong to it.

It was for attention, probably both for the "squirrel!" effect on the news cycle but also as a temper tantrum thing because he wasn't able to play with the big boys last week. Children with his line of thinking will do outrageous things without regard to consequence and won't recognize the consequence unless it obstructs their behavior personally. It's the only consequence they recognize.

So We the People need to make sure that recognition takes place.

[NCjack]

68. Putin senses that the useful idiot may be near early expiration. So, Putin

has put #45 into stumblebum mode and put him on a course to provoke a war with Iran. Purpose: weaken the economy and patriotism of USA.

[MineralMan]

70. That's a possibility, too.

I don't know.

[stillcool]

73. I think it's very interesting...

that Iran, China, and Russia had joint military exercises, for 4 days, starting on Dec. 27th.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/27/asia/china-russia-iran-military-drills-intl-hnk/index.html
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/12/china-russia-iran-joint-naval-drills-191227183505159.html

My imagination no longer has boundaries. The only thing i know for sure, is nothing is as it seems. I don't know whose country I'm in.

[MineralMan]

74. There's so much we don't know, and won't know.

It's interesting to look at what might be or what might have occurred.

[stillcool]

75. that it is...but my crash...

course on the Middle-east during the Bush years, has me not wanting to go near that Pandora's box. The learning curve is endless.

[wnylib]

106. So if Putin encourages provocation of

hostilities between Iran and the US, Russia gets to back Iran. Rising oil prices and increased weapons sales to Iran benefit Russia. Russia gets to fight a proxy war with the US, and America loses status and leadership in the world.

But there are US elements who have been itching for war with Iran since the time of W and his neocons in accord with the PNAC. So this could have origins right here in the US. If Putin sees long range benefits for himsrlf, he won't mind Trump acting like the ass he is.

Certainly Trump knows that Russia and Iran are allues, in Syria at least. And for sure Trump would not do anything to alienate Putin, so it's plausible to me that Trump would consider Putin when assassinating an Iranian general

[stillcool]

107. what if the goal is to....

usurp the U.S. influence in Eurasia? Coax the U.S. into a war we can not win, at a price we can not pay. Russia, Iran, and China...and others...like the Saudi's...would be a formidable coalition. Maybe this is the axe in our coffin. Probably not close to reality...but then, what is?

[wnylib]

108. It's possible. Certainly the US has been

declining in world leadership, first under W snd now under Trump, with a brief interlude of respectability under Obama.

Republican 'values' are more in line with those of Trump's dictator pals than with Americsn constitutionsl orinciples. So that's how Republicans operate and is the direction they take us in.

We need some very strong leadership to turn the country around. Pelosi, Schiiff, and Nadler are doing a great job, but their power is limited to the House. Biden is the most experienced candidate for that job, but I wish we had someone now of the ofature of FDR at this moment in history.

So many people are placing hope in the election outcome, but due to Russian interference, I fesr that an honest proceds is in serious doubt. I felt ctushed when W got his second term. There are no words for how I would feel if Trump is not defeated tgis year.

[DBoon]

78. Being kicked out of Iraq leaves an opening for Russia

I also believe Russia wants to weaken Iran so as to better dominate that nation and to ensure Iran does not challenge Russia.

[totodeinhere]

79. I think it remains to be seen whether or not this move will "destroy" Trump.

Suddenly impeachment is off from the front page. That can only help Trump. Putin may be evil but he is shrewd. He may be advising Trump to play the "wag the dog" game for his own political benefit.

[MineralMan]

84. Well, I think Trump will lose in 2020.

So, he'll be gone then, if not before then. That's how things look to me right now.

[totodeinhere]

89. I hope you're right. But you better believe that his Russian friends will be

doing everything they can to see that what we are hoping for doesn't happen. You know I even heard the ridiculous rumor that they are grooming Don Jr. to succeed him in 2024.

[MineralMan]

90. Well, there is that.

However, I think they'll muddle through, even if we win in 2020. They have lots of tools in their toolbox for causing disruption.

Things shift around all the time, but the trends are maintained. We pushed Russia back, and now they're pushing back again at us. And so it goes. I can't imagine a world without that essential conflict, really. If such a world ever exists, I expect China to lead it.

I wish that weren't so, but I'm not particularly hopeful. The United States is currently in it's own battle for internal power. While that is going on, there's lots of room for others to poke at us. We need to get our own nation stabilized and soon.

[Gothmog]

83. Putin wants chaos and trump is delivering

Last edited Sun Jan 5, 2020, 03:21 PM - Edit history (1)

[MineralMan]

86. That has always seemed to be Putin's goal to me.

He can't build power based on economics. He can't build power based on military might. He can build power through chaos, though. Disabling the United States was a goal, even in Soviet days. That hasn't changed, from the Russian point of view.

[BumRushDaShow]

87. Don't discount Saudi and MBS

because Sunni vs Shia is really a thing.

[MineralMan]

88. Yes, that's an additional destabilizing force in the region.

There's no shortage of things that tend to destabilize there.

If it weren't for the oil and some other resources, nobody would bother with the Middle East at all. However, it makes a good place for proxy wars between the major powers, because of the oil.

[BumRushDaShow]

91. For someone who has had 6 bankruptcies and declared himself the "King of Debt"

Saudi was a perceived bottomless pit of $$$. In essence a possible "Do us a favor though..." from Saudi.



But then it seems the "best laid plans" may not have been the "best".

Aramco Undergoes Stern First Test Less Than a Month After IPO
By Filipe Pacheco
January 5, 2020, 7:46 AM EST

Saudi Aramco’s status as an oil-producing behemoth located in one of the world’s most turbulent regions always marked it as likely to suffer bouts of volatility.But few could have expected the stock to face so stern a test less than a month after the company’s historic $25.6 billion initial offering.

The world’s most profitable company tumbled 1.7% Sunday, the most in more than two weeks, as the U.S. killing of Iran’s most prominent general last week triggered fresh concern of a wider conflict in the Gulf region. While Aramco performed better than Saudi Arabia’s benchmark Tadawul index, the sudden rise in geopolitical tension comes just as the end of the stabilization period for the shares nears following the Dec. 11 sale.



“The risks will remain over the near term as both the United States and Iran aim threats at one another,” said Jameel Ahmad, a markets analyst at FXTM in London. The drop in Aramco shares “is a natural reaction to the coordinated risk aversion that has swept global sentiment since the events at the end of last week.”

The drone attack that killed Iran’s General Qassem Soleimani, ordered by U.S. President Donald Trump, was a reminder of the risks of investing in the region. In September, Saudi Arabia’s oil production was cut by half after a swarm of explosive drones struck at the heart of the kingdom’s energy industry. The U.S. and Saudi Arabia blamed Iran for the attack, while Yemen’s Houthi rebels claimed responsibility.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-05/aramco-undergoes-stern-first-test-less-than-a-month-after-ipo

[MineralMan]

93. If Trump were not in the White House, he'd be the butt of everyone's jokes.

But he is, so he has enormous power he has no idea how to use to the benefit of anyone, including himself.

And so, he uses that power in the most stupid ways possible.

The 2016 election was a disastrous one for this country. It's total cost will not be known for some time.

More's the pity.

[Polybius]

94. Everything is recorded that a President does

No way would that phone conversation take place, especially since Trump knows how the Ukraine one leaked. Even he's not that stupid.

[JonLP24]

98. I think Putin is behind a lot but not everything

Trump still has his ego & narcissism.

[Enoki33]

100. I suspect, in fact am convinced, that while Putin wishes to diminish

the international influence and reputation of the US while creating as much turmoil politically and socially here in his quest to resurrect the old Soviet sphere of power, there is much more to his plan. Putin views any functioning democracy as a threat to his one criminal man supported by oligarchs rule. His current plan for the US also involves installing a not too benevolent form of dictatorship. In this tRump is much more than a useful idiot, and we think of him in those terms at our own peril. He is unfolding before our vey eyes a very sophisticated autocratic plan that we do not sometimes want to see.

[Kurt V.]

103. no.