Shouldn't Pentagon leaders refuse to commit war crimes?

[edhopper]

Like bombing cultural sites and civilian targets?

"Let this serve as a WARNING that if Iran strikes any Americans, or American assets, we have targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture, and those targets, and Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD. The USA wants no more threats!"

[GP6971]

1. As in following illegal orders. n/t

[edhopper]

2. exactly!

[leftieNanner]

3. One would hope so

But I'm not sure there's anyone left at the higher levels at the Pentagon who is willing to defy The Orange One.

[dewsgirl]

29. Your comment made me think of an article a couple weeks ago.

In that week alone, 6 high level Pentagon officials resigned. A poster here, had a nephew that recently resigned from the Pentagon and it appears he was asked, essentially to pledge his loyalty to Trump.😳

[burrowowl]

31. Yes scary

[dem4decades]

4. How'd it work out for the Nazi's?

[dhol82]

10. We might be finding that out shortly.

Why can no one stop this fucker?

[dchill]

11. Why WILL no one stop him?

[dhol82]

12. Yup.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

5. If you think back to the first week of December 2019,

about 6 or so, high-level, long-time, security/military/legal experts at the Pentagon abruptly quit their posts. At the time, I couldn't understand that, it made no sense, given that these people were significant players. Now I understand why. They could not be a party to this.

[edhopper]

7. I remember hearing of that

We are truly fucked.

[dewsgirl]

30. I just posted about this elsewhere in this thread. A poster here

had a nephew that had resigned and was furious, due to the fact he was essentially asked, to pledge his loyalty.😳

[Haggis for Breakfast]

32. This is the United States of America --

We don't pledge loyalty to any president, political party of individual.

We pledge our allegiance to The Constitution, not some jack-off in the WH.

As a veteran, this has me so angry, I can't speak right now, without lapsing into Navy-ese, which aint pretty.

If this trouser stain thinks we're going to support another war, he is DEAD wrong. And assassinating someone based on what they might do in the future violates every tenet we stand for. Every American, anywhere outside the US is now walking around with a bulls-eye on their head. If he thinks Iran is not going to retaliate, he must be reading his own press releases again. Right now, he's talking tough. Believe me, he's a fucking coward and this was a fool's move.

[dewsgirl]

33. It really was, if he thought this would help him, it won't.

We are in completely uncharted territory.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

34. What we need RIGHT GODDAM NOW is leadership from BOTH parties.

Not more ass-sucking sycophants posturing, posing, preening and pandering to a brain-dead lunatic.

[dewsgirl]

35. +1000

[TomSlick]

6. Well, I would expect military officers to defy an order to commit a war crime.

However, I would not expect a military officer to defy an order in a "close call." It will be a challenging time to be the JAG for a combatant commander.

I would really like to see the legal analysis behind the assassination of Soleimani. I have serious misgivings and hope this received the kind of legal analysis it deserved.

[GP6971]

8. My guess is that there wasn't one. Or at least

they weren't given enough time to adequately provide a detailed analysis /opinion.

[TomSlick]

9. My guess is the drones belonged to the CIA - not DoD

and that very little legal analysis was undertaken.

[Takket]

13. he acts more like a villian from a lousy war novel all the time

targeting 52 sites for the 52 hostages? What kind of cheesy ass bullshit is that? This is not a bad novel, it is REALITY. Don't make dumbass dramatic terrorists threats. Talk to your military leaders and take their advice.

[NJCher]

22. my initial reaction to his "52 sites" tweet was

that it was juvenile. Sounds like something written by a teenager on social media.

I like your characterization better though--cheesy, bad war novel.

[haele]

23. The 52 sites comment wasn't his, it was probably Bolton's.

Just "kept in ready" for when it would have been applicable. Bolton is part of the cluster of almost senile old dead-enders yearning for the Cowboy Reagan days. I doubt Trump paid any attention to what was going on in around that time or could even tell you when the Iranian hostage crisis was - unless he very recently saw the movie Argo.

Haele

[NJCher]

26. I'm not sure I understand this

I went to his Twitter thread to check it and indeed it's there, but it has an ellipsis in front of it. Of course we don't know that Trump even knows what ellipsis is.

So you're saying that Trump originally heard this dumb idea from Bolton and then just patched it in at what he deemed an appropriate time?

Come to think of it, I've never seen him be very original. Whatever the source, it still strikes me as juvenile and ....just goofy.

BTW, if anyone wants to check out the responses to his Tweet, there are a lot of them telling him how insane he is.

[Nitram]

14. Define war crimes.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I don't think it is that simple.

[edhopper]

15. Targeting cultural sites for bombing

is a war crime.

[James48]

20. It's very simple.

Under international law it is illegal to bomb cultural sites, or civilian targets, unless they are very specifically being used for military purposes. In short, to even so much as intentionally bombing a Mosque or a Church, or a Museum, or a giant statue of a past Ayatollah would be a war crime, punishable by the international community. (The 1954 Hague Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict is the law applicable to the USA, as we have not become a party to the more recent international criminal court agreements, as 126 other nationals have. Trump refuses).

So is initiating hostilities, like the killing of a military commander of another country, without a formal declaration of war, by the way. (Hague Convention of 1907)

[ArcticFox]

24. To be fair

Our past few presidents have refused to subject the USA to ICC jurisdiction.

[shadowmayor]

16. You're kidding right?

Have we forgotten the he'll we unleashed with shock and awe. Our sanitized for TV version was far from what some of us witnessed first hand. America destroyed the Iraqi civil works and obliterated vast tracts of their country.

[edhopper]

17. Bush and Cheney

were guilty of war crimes too.

[shadowmayor]

18. Damn right they are!

Show me General who refuses to bomb a school full of children and I'll show you a retired General. Show me a General who bombed 2 schools and I'll show you a man who's getting promoted. Bomb the hell out of a country and it's 4 stars and a cush job at Raytheon or CNN.

[shadowmayor]

27. Libya

Another fine mess we delivered via our bombs and bullets.

[DallasNE]

19. Amazing How

These military men will put their life on the line but they won't put their career on the line.

[doc03]

21. Trump just pardoned a war criminal a few days ago nt

[RockRaven]

28. Which Democratic Party POTUS candidate will actually follow through on prosecuting

military personnel for following illegal orders? Cuz I'd at least consider voting for that person, everything else being near equal.

Because for the most part, military and civilian, people get away with violating the law under one administration once the administrations turn over -- a sick "gentlemen's agreement" which is matched in perversity only by imagining how much abuse of that system someone like Trump would engage in if the standard was the opposite.