I hope people resist the dramatics and escalations in this manufactured conflict with Iran.

[coti]

The politics of this manipulation into war is so far quite different than the one with Iraq. To invade Iraq, BushCo sabre-rattled and came up with reasons for many months after having made the decision of the invasion.

This conflict, thus far, is nothing so "principled," but much simpler. It's just a tit-for-tat with huge jumps in escalation between steps. And it's a quick scale-up. It's what you often see when both sides in a conflict- stupidly- really want to fight.

It's also incredibly dangerous, and should be resisted. Those trying to stop this war must deny the legitimacy of the conflict itself. Don't accept that we are suddenly "in a war," and therefore must act as such- that's the intended escalation trap. Just as in WWI, this is awful leadership sacrificing the lives of the least powerful of their own citizens, for nothing but their personal political gamemanship. Don't let them pretend there is some kind of important meaning to this beyond that.

[onecaliberal]

1. Iran will retaliate. Do you think the orange garbage will sit on his hands after that occurs?

[coti]

2. No, but it's his fault, and he should stop it before he gets more people pointlessly killed. nt

[onecaliberal]

3. It's beyond stopping now. This is a big fucking deal. Epically stupid on a most grand scale.

There are so many soft targets.

[coti]

4. That's the idea I'm saying we have to resist if we want to de-escalate this. nt

[onecaliberal]

6. We're not in charge of this and if you haven't noticed the people who are in charge, are taking

Victory laps.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

33. This. ☝🏾

[UniteFightBack]

10. This...any American over there is a sitting duck. nt

[onecaliberal]

11. There are many. More than when that orange garbage game into office.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

5. If you think that getting "more people pointlessly killed"

ever concerned him, you haven't been paying attention.

He doesn't care.

We're talking about a man with NO moral compass, NO ethics, NO compassion. A man who rips babies from their mother's arms and locks children in concentration camps AND had no plan beyond that.

[coti]

7. No, I totally agree, but we have to stop arguing the inevitability of war regardless

if we want to do what we can to avoid it.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

8. I'm sorry to inform you, coti, but we are PAST that point.

[coti]

9. No, it's not impossible to not continue to escalate the conflict.

Your insistence that war must happen isn't helping anyone.

[onecaliberal]

12. We have no control over what Iran does.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

13. EXACTLY.

And that is why I said we are past the point.

[onecaliberal]

14. As I also said upthread.

[coti]

15. You're right, but we can control both our own reaction after whatever it is they do, and

we could also, theoretically, swear off the dumbfuck actions of a President that led us to this point.

If we continue on this path, a whole lot of people could get hurt. Or even more than a whole lot. Few seem genuinely invested in avoiding that.

[onecaliberal]

17. Are you asserting that someone can or will control trump?

I’m sorry but there is zero evidence to suggest that dump would listen or care. He literally tweeted a fucking American flag. He thinks this is great. He’s saying it would be “over quickly”. Does that sound familiar. I’d love to think the situation could be de-escalated. It’s naive and contrary to what we’ve seen. Not to mention Bolton must be positively giddy right now.

[coti]

20. I do think that with a strong enough political backlash- though it would have to be a large one-

Trump could change his mind.

But, I think, more than that, I'm saying that it's our responsibility to not be a part of the escalation itself by playing along and agreeing with the inevitably of war with Iran, which- inevitably- will be Trump supporters' ultimate justification of these actions. Which could be absolutely devastating to millions of people.

[onecaliberal]

22. I'm not playing along with anything. More than a third of this country loves what he did.

When Iran retaliates, and they will at the time and place of their choosing, those people will once again be blood thirsty. No one in the Republican Party has the intestinal fortitude to stop the reckless POS.

[McKim]

36. Let's Leverage This Event!

Let’s leverage this event into another reason to IMPEACH!!!! Just turn this event around and use it to our advantage against the “president”. Don’t get caught up in the drama, just use it against him.

[ancianita]

27. Including any of the 6,650 troops we'll have there real soon.

[OldBaldy1701E]

38. How?

Other than endangering the lives of those who live/work over there, how is this going to affect us over here? Other than the oil that we are being forced to keep using and the profits that go with it, how? (We went from no ability to get near the atmosphere to a moon landing in ten years and yet we are still using fossil fuels and centrally located power supplies? Bullshiat, this is so because the oligarchs keep it this way). I want to know just what you think they are going to do during this 'retaliation' except attack oil interests, which would maybe force us to finally stop listening to the oligarchs that run this country and are about to get us into another foreign quagmire over their profits, profits that most certainly will not apply back to us. They cannot reach us militarily, so what are they going to do? I say it again, we need to stop playing god with the rest of the planet, and tend to our own knitting. Of course, that is not going to happen. Neither is the single fact that we need to worry about our own first. Until we have no homeless, hungry, hopeless people here at home, we don't need to be sticking our noses in others business. Especially when the need to stick it in there is superfluous at best, and usually initially caused by us in the first place at worst.

[roamer65]

16. On AlJazeera...multiple guests advising Americans in the region to get out now.

[onecaliberal]

18. Yup

[LudwigPastorius]

19. "It's just a tit for tat"

In an al Jazeera article, Hillary Mann Leverett, who served in the State Department and National Security Council under three presidents said that killing Soleimani is equivalent to the Iranians assassinating the American Secretary of Defense or the commander of the US Central Command.

So, consider how we would respond in such an event, because I believe that is what we can expect.

[coti]

21. No, I agree that was an enormous escalation on Trump's part. And a deliberate provocation

to fit with a nice "inevitable war" narrative.

[onecaliberal]

23. Yes, people who know are saying America better look at this as an act of war because Iran is.

We damn sure would.

[Mersky]

24. I cannot accept full on war as a foregone conclusion

At this point. Am hoping for countervailing efforts by the peoples living under the varying extremist/nutball leaderships who do not want war.

And if this was, as it seems to be, an unnecessary escalation carried out by the tRump regime, then I have to stay prepared to peg him for what he and his minions have done.

I cannot help but be hacked-off over the timing of Iran, Russia, and China conducting naval drills last week, followed by tRump’s phone call with putin on Sunday.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212817085

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/29/kremlin-putin-calls-to-thank-trump-for-help-on-terrorism-090430

There has to be another way than letting tRump try to force conflict with Iran to get away from his impeachment trial in the Senate.

[ancianita]

28. Pretty sure Congress isn't going to just play along, either.

[Mersky]

29. Yep. I think they'll pushback.

Going to war against Iran isn’t acceptable. Is ridiculously horrendous against the backdrop of impeachment of the worst pResident ever.

[ancianita]

30. If EVER this shit-for-brains needs congressional oversight, it's right now.

[Mersky]

31. Absolutely. Without a doubt.

[Crowman2009]

25. You and me know that Orange fuckface started this war to begin with.

When he decided to attack Iranian militias.

[Stonepounder]

26. And just don't forget that Trump wants to play with his nukes.

Remember him asking repeatedly, "If we have nuclear weapons why don't we use them?"

[McKim]

32. Resisting this War is Our Duty

Resisting this war is our duty. I am going to a demonstration tonight in my city. I called my senators. After 17 years in the Peace Movement I know the drill. My brother in law died in Vietnam for a lie and I have seen this movie before and where it ends, in family tragedies for all.

[Crowman2009]

34. Not to mention all the shitty country music that goes with it.

[Sloumeau]

35. 1, 2, 3, 4, we don't buy this fake news war. eom

[duforsure]

37. I hope the American people

Turn against all media that let's trump change the news cycle to war by turning their channel away unless they continue covering his impeachment , instead of repeating his propaganda trying to redirect away from him being exposed. This war crisis he's instigated is just another phony ploy to play the media, and we can't let him get away doing that any more. Before long even republicans will be begging he be removed from office. He's no republican, he's no successful businessman, just a career con man and a liar and a criminal waiting for justice to finally give him what he's always deserved, consequences.

[Nitram]

39. So far most responses seem to be right on the money: shocked, dismayed, angry...