The losing argument, IMO.

[CTyankee]

Many years ago I had a conversation with a young, white, non college educated man who was busily engaged in starting his own business doing home improvement. I was promoting the Dem candidate (I forget which presidential campaign but I think our candidate was Dukakis) and I used the argument that the Republican Party was for rich guys who didn't care about people like him and here is what he said:

"I'm going to vote for the Republican because one day I will be rich and I don't want to have to pay all the taxes that the Democrats would put on me and my income."

Perhaps that is true today, in addition to the race/gender/class issues we see all the time.

What do you think?

[Ninga]

1. I think you are on to something. I think that the lack of intellectual curiosity and not knowing

our political history contributes to such misplaced thinking. It is also a lack of values and “when someday I get mine I don’t want to contribute to help level the playing field.”

Such folks, simply do not care.

[Eliot Rosewater]

2. Someone who cares ONLY about how much richer they can get as in taxes while people

around him are starving, can fuck right off.

People like that are a lost cause.

Do they do better in EVERY way under democrats regardless of what taxes are paid? Of course and it can be easily proven, but he wont listen.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

3. Absolutely.

That's been the thinking of far too many people for far too long.

It's the same with inheritance taxes. People who will be lucky if their parents die not owing anything and with a pre-paid funeral plan oppose estate taxes because they magically think they will suddenly inherit millions.

[silverweb]

4. Not an uncommon POV, apparently.

John Steinbeck had this to say: “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

[uponit7771]

10. +1, because the poor think owning more than 2 cars is rich ... they have no idea how rich folk

... who are really rich (not like Trump rich) live.

[silverweb]

15. Ain't THAT the truth!

Not just the poor. People in the middle and upper middle class have no idea how the filthy rich live. It's not just buying two Teslas instead of a Chevy, or having a six-bedroom house on five acres instead of a two-bedroom apartment, which is what many people think. It's living 100% in that rarified atmosphere of incomprehensible luxury, excess, and total self-indulgence that people simply can't imagine. I can only partly imagine it -- and it's obscene.

[moondust]

5. "big gubment"

~
As Ronald Reagan and other politicians ginned up anti-government and anti-poor resentment in the 1970s and ’80s, the welfare queen stood in for the idea that black people were too lazy to work, instead relying on public benefits to get by, paid for by the rest of us upstanding citizens. She was promiscuous, having as many children as possible in order to beef up her benefit take. It was always a myth—white people have always made up the majority of those receiving government checks, and if anything, benefits are too miserly, not too lavish. But it was a potent stereotype, which helped fuel a crackdown on the poor and a huge reduction in their benefits, and it remains powerful today.
~
http://newrepublic.com/article/154404/myth-welfare-queen

I think "economic royalist" Republicans were always out to undo FDR's policies. Howard Hughes comes to mind as a big tax evader; he was probably an early model for the GOP.

[safeinOhio]

6. When they win the lottery,

they want it all. Forget those odds are 30,000,000 to 1.

[CTyankee]

7. They have to think that. They don't have a job with decent benefits for when they retire.

It's sad.

[maxsolomon]

8. He was an idiot.

Who doesn't understand marginal tax rates.

The white working class has be inculcated with hypothetical, slippery-slope bullshit about Dems and what a fair tax structure would look like.

[uponit7771]

9. Rich to most middle class is owning more than 3 tvs, Rich to Rich people owning more than 3 houses..

... with helicopter pads on them ... put a physical figure like ... 3 100 foot yachts to "rich" and you'll get the point across better.

Just my personal experience.

Poor or middle class folk don't know what rich really is

[Arthur_Frain]

11. This a bazillion times.

All the time, all day. I try to tell most of the folks I know that “you don’t have any idea what ‘real money’ is.”

I even have a friend who has in passing identified himself as one of “the one percent”. Didn’t have the heart to tell him that if he really was, on the last trip we all went on, he wouldn’t have flown first class, it would have been a private jet, and he wouldn’t have been “sharing” the dive boat with us.

[uponit7771]

12. THIS !!! THIS !!! THIS !!! My goodness, the rich keep their lifestyles away from the common person

... to the degree the rich contribute less percentage of money to charity.

I know some "rich" folk that don't even have the 100 million dollar level rich and yes ... they are NOT like most of us

[drmeow]

13. This is part of the myth

that Reagan promoted and sold. There are a decent number of Republicans who feel this way. There are also Republicans who think the rich shouldn't be taxed even though they don't think they will ever be rich.

[BuffaloJackalope]

14. "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves ..."

“... not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

[CTyankee]

16. This young man now has a wife and a child and he has changed a bit: he's got a kid who

needs health care. He works for himself and is doing well but I wonder how he gets health care for his child. I figure his wife must work someplace that provides it. I wonder if he ever has a few thoughts about how fragile that can be, even if it is "good" health care.

Maybe the guy will get "woke" in the process of figuring this all out.

[Blue_true]

18. So basically, he is one layoff from disaster. Did you ask

whether his wife works for a government (local, state, federal)?

[CTyankee]

20. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if she did.

We don't have any major work that we would call him to do so I won't get a chance to ask him. My guess is that he has an Obamacare option for young healthy adults.

[Blue_true]

22. Have a great new year. Hope you make it to NYC tonight, that is always a good time.

Also, for anyone lucky enough to be in the area (I was one time) on NewYear's Eve, First Night in Boston is great.

Take care.

[Blue_true]

17. He was ignorant.

Historically democratic Presidents have been better for small and large businesses, because they created a more stable economy. He was more likely to get rich in a stable economy than in what Bush II created.

[sarah FAILIN]

19. They all think they will be wealthy one day

Wealth is comparative to the poor. They don't look at how many are above them, they look at how many are below and do all they can to keep that lower income person from getting anything that may have come from their own taxes.

[Wounded Bear]

21. Americans don't think of themselves as poor...

they always think of themselves as temporarily distressed millionaires.

I forget who that quote comes from, but it is true of far too many Americans who don't really understand the situation.