Atheist nurse wins fight to end mandatory 12-step addiction treatment for health staff in Vancouver

[yortsed snacilbuper]

B.C. health authority settles human rights complaint with Byron Wood, who lost his job after quitting AA

Health-care professionals who work in Vancouver-area hospitals and medical clinics will no longer be required to attend 12-step programs if they want to keep their jobs after being diagnosed with addiction.

Six of AA's 12 steps directly refer to God or a higher power, including one that requires members turn their will and lives "over to the care of God."

"The 12 steps are a religious peer support group, not a medical treatment. They shouldn't be imposed on anyone," Wood said.

"When you're a medical doctor, and you specialize in only one condition, and the only treatment that you offer for that condition involves God, you shouldn't be practising medicine."

link

[malaise]

1. He's right

Rec

Thanks GoCubsGo

[GoCubsGo]

2. He.

The nurse's name is "Byron." And, yes. He is absolutely correct.

[malaise]

4. Ha

Will correct - that is called stereotypical labeling - I read the link but I'm still adjusting to male nurses

[Wounded Bear]

3. It's been a few years now, but they used to be more non-denominational...

As I liked to put it, they were more spiritual than religious, but towards the end of my membership, the meetings were getting more and more Christianized and evangelical. AA is not supposed to recruit or proselytize. I remember one group that basically died because most of the members gravitated up the road to the local super church.

Like I say, it's been over 5 years since I attended a meeting. I know that old-timers grew to resent the court ordered attendance and in many ways I understand that. They got a lot of people going who weren't really interested in fixing their drinking problem. I also know that a lot of rehab centers that grew out of the MADD fad had close relationships with AA and their fellow 12 step programs.

In the end, getting over addiction requires one fundamental step. The person has to want to get over their problem. Once they decide that, how they do it is probably immaterial. They need to find what works for them.

[safeinOhio]

5. Success rate for AA

is between 5 and 10%. The must not be praying hard enough.

[demosincebirth]

11. Where did you pulls those numbers out of? Please teil us

[safeinOhio]

13. The Google.

[Merlot]

29. I've heard it's lower than that.

[fescuerescue]

31. Success rate for any additional treatment

Is pretty damn low.

https://americanaddictioncenters.org/rehab-guide/success-rates-and-statistics

[nilram]

35. And there's lots of other recovery groups

Smart Recovery and Rational Recovery, for two.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

6. just for the record "higher power" doesnt necessarily have to mean an external force or a god, it

can just be your own innate inner wisdom or instinctual drive towards health/wholeness. At least that's the definition I and others in my circle have operated from.

Of course there will be some for whom even that is an alien concept, so I dunno. Is there any one size fits all therapy for addiction? Probably not.

[Mariana]

25. It depends on the group, of course.

Some are explicitly Christian, and make sure that non-Christians, or even Christians of the "wrong" denominations, know they aren't really welcome.

[Marie Marie]

7. SMART Recovery is a secular recovery program using CBET therapies.

[ismnotwasm]

8. There are atheists groups in AA

Most people don’t understand the basic structure of Alcoholics Anonymous, it’s essentially an type of anarchy with a lot of peer pressure.


The reason 12 step groups are required is because they are cheap and available, and provide psychological support for abstinence.

That being said, Washington state, there are mandatory support groups for impaired healthcare workers that are not 12 step based. If those are available, I see no reason why this person should be court mandated to AA. If they are not available, I hope this nurse is able to work with stealing drugs, or working impaired, because that is the entire goal.

Addiction is fucked up. I don’t care how people get clean, as long as they do.

[Hekate]

9. I hope there's a good alternative

[demosincebirth]

12. Doing it yourself?

[RichardRay]

32. What is your experience dealing with addiction? N/T

[demosincebirth]

36. Sober forty years, now, with AA and the Grace of

A higher Power

[demosincebirth]

10. You need a support group after treatment and AA seems like the best option like it or not.

[safeinOhio]

14. Who says you need a support group?

I didn’t. Just a great shrink.

[rurallib]

17. I quit on my own about 30 years ago. It was time.

I have heard many opine that AA replaces one dependency with another.

[demosincebirth]

19. Shrink, equals support

[MrsCoffee]

21. Yeah, shrink equals medical professional.

AA is not.

[safeinOhio]

22. Minus "group"

[MLAA]

27. I am happy you are able to not drink.

I’ve recently learned a lot supporting a sister going through recovery.

One is Medicare isn’t accepted in most rehab facilities. So paying out pocket is between $10,000 to $30,000 per month in Tucson. 30 day programs aren’t as successful as 90 day programs, and even then a good portion of folks need multiple times in rehab for alcohol and or narcotics.

I went with her to an AA meeting. The atmosphere of support was palpable. This particular group used the term higher power frequently.

AA is free (or a very small donation when they pass a hat.). Many can’t afford private counseling.

Again, so glad you were able to address your addiction successfully!

[safeinOhio]

28. I'm all for what ever works.

I went to AA for a month and got tired of hearing that was the ONLY road that works. It's not. I had to change my life and that included going back to school in my 40s and getting a degree in Psych. That taught me critical thinking and looking at things like peer review journals. Can't seem to find any of those that confirm that AA is any better than other methods.

[MLAA]

37. Wow, your determination to stop drinking really did improve your life for the better

giving you a new career ( I assume you continued using your new degree is some fashion of your work either directly or indirectly). Wish I had had some psych education for my 30 years in global business!

[OhNo-Really]

34. So many I know were rehabbed by AA

Not sure why some are so negative about AA.

Individual counseling does not have a high success rate and the co-pays are unaffordable for most.

AA is free! Addiction is never “cured” but controlled. Addiction lurks, it ebbs and flows and can easily be triggered. The addict benefits from regular group support. Those that can afford individual counseling improve their control by also attending a support group.

But with both, if the addict doesn’t work the program, the program doesn’t work. Therefore, success rate score cards are arbitrary.

Here’s a bit of comparative analysis

Another study mentioned in the same publication observed a smaller outpatient sample. The results concluded that over 70% of those who attended a 12-step program weekly for 6 months before the two-year follow-up point were abstinent from alcohol. Another study conducted on those with an untreated drinking problem showed 70% of those with 27 weeks or more in AA were abstinent from alcohol at the 16-year follow-up mark. Moreover, the study revealed those with a shorter duration of time in AA had lower rates of abstinence.11
https://americanaddictioncenters.org/rehab-guide/12-step/whats-the-success-rate-of-aa

Same applies to any addiction. The addict is the only person that can succeed in using tools and faithfully work whatever programs he/she chooses.

There but for the Grace of God or Your Higher Self go you or I!

Outlier Zealots on the spiritual scale can’t seem to help but vehemently argue with each other. The grinding need to “Be Right” is the very basis of being an indignant loudly verbose zealot.

I fear zealots on either side of the issue of Faith the most. Haven’t zealots led the greatest atrocities throughout history?

That said, I hope we all encourage the addicts in our orbit to try & work all the tools available to get the monkey on their back under control.

Addiction is a chronic, life long disease.

Warn the children! My parents warned me and scared me enough that I didn’t start using substances. Forever grateful ❤️

The anti-AA campaign is mystifying.

Could it be fueled by the hugely profitable rehab industry?

[Merlot]

30. AA is free, shrinks cost money. Lots of money.

And if you have insurance, most of the shrinks on their list either don't return your call, aren't taking new patients, or are MA's which is not a shrink.

I had one tell me to download a meditation app and read a book.

[Iggo]

15. LOL.

Someone: 12-step programs are good.
DU: No.

Someone else: 12-step programs are bad.
DU: Also No.

I love this place...lol.

[safeinOhio]

16. Two steps

are easier to follow.

[Iggo]

24. Yep.

1. Stop.
2. Don't start again.

Now, how you get to that realization is a whooooole 'nother story.

[ismnotwasm]

33. I work in solid organ transplant

We sent our liver failure alcohol abuse disorder patients to out-patient treatment and community recovery. We don’t care what community recovery, but AA is easiest. We don’t require them to stay in AA, obviously. AA is great for those last chance types.

So we have a good number who are able to quit on their own prior to their liver transplant work up, we have so many more who run out of resources and time and ability. And the lies, I hate the lies.

Since I work with death from alcohol abuse quite frequently, I don’t care how people get sober. AA works for you? Fantastic? Your able to do it on your own? Fabulous. Another way worked for you? Great.

It’s just in the middle of success is a lot of suffering, a lot of dying, a lot of broken homes. It breaks my heart

I get very angry though, when someone has been given the gift of life, and through the arrogance of inattention, drink again.

[Skittles]

20. huh?

you should not be forced to believe in fairy tales to get treatment for addiction

[Iggo]

23. I kind of agree with you.

Profession of belief should not be required by the courts.

But atheists go into the recovery rooms and atheists come out, and everyone knows it but the judge...lol.

[Hortensis]

18. Glad to hear that. Outrageous that this was court-ordered

more than once -- the one needed to require putting a stop to it. Instead of for decades.

[defacto7]

26. Religions love access to the vulnerable.