Military turns on Trump

[Johnny2X2X]

His meddling in the Navy's inner workings for discipline has really bothered service men and women. These people value discipline and honor, Trump sticking up for a brutal thug has not gone over well. This poll is remarkable.

Link to tweet

[jberryhill]

1. .

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/596

18 U.S. Code § 596. Polling armed forces

Whoever, within or without the Armed Forces of the United States, polls any member of such forces, either within or without the United States, either before or after he executes any ballot under any Federal or State law, with reference to his choice of or his vote for any candidate, or states, publishes, or releases any result of any purported poll taken from or among the members of the Armed Forces of the United States or including within it the statement of choice for such candidate or of such votes cast by any member of the Armed Forces of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.

The word “poll” means any request for information, verbal or written, which by its language or form of expression requires or implies the necessity of an answer, where the request is made with the intent of compiling the result of the answers obtained, either for the personal use of the person making the request, or for the purpose of reporting the same to any other person, persons, political party, unincorporated association or corporation, or for the purpose of publishing the same orally, by radio, or in written or printed form.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 720; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(H), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

[Johnny2X2X]

2. Odd

This was the Military Times, I'm sure they are allowed to poll because they've been releasing polls for years.

[jberryhill]

3. The law is too narrowly drafted, unfortunately

It seems to be limited to "choice of candidate".

However, it strikes me as highly inappropriate to ask members of the armed forces whether they approve or disapprove of the president.

[Johnny2X2X]

5. I tend to agree

But they released these when Obama was President and FOX News ran it in their headlines if it was not good for him.

[marble falls]

10. As a former member of the military I understand exactly what it means to voluntarily ...

and specifically sign away my rights under the Bill of Rights and in a second document sign that I voluntarily put myself under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

I see no problem being asked if I approve or disapprove of any of my commanders; my oath states my obligation to follow their orders and support the Constitution and defend the Republic.

Any military vet can tell you of superiors who were a half bubble off. And we all will tell you the nation and the Constitution "trumps" the loyalty to any commander. Nuremberg makes its explicit: following orders blindly diminishes culpability not an iota.

There's reasons that law has never been enforced. It was written to cut mutiny off at the seed. It was written in response to the "Red Menace". No one has ever attempted to use military units to bring down any commander from outside the military (at least until recently, the neo-nazis and polling probably isn't the worst of it).

[sarge43]

11. In short, must obey; don't have to respect.

As you say, that obey thing isn't absolute either. Just chose your ground very very carefully.

Finally We the People are the sovereign entity of this nation, not the president. That oath to support the Constitution is our first and most important order.

[marble falls]

12. We must have served together in different branches. You said it better than I did.

[bluecollar2]

22. Amen...n/t

[sarge43]

23. Thanks. Nothing shabby about your post.

Retired Air Force E-7, a long time ago on bases far far away (some don't even exist anymore).

As said before, I'm glad I'm not on active duty anymore and extremely ineligible for recall. Otherwise, I'd flapped my mouth and been lucky to walk away with just an Art 15. After that trash photoshop of him presenting the Medal of Honor to a dog, I'd probably been guest of honor at a special court.

Sometimes the ground doesn't matter; you make your stand.

[jmowreader]

21. The purpose of that law is to prevent improper command influence

Let’s say Candidate Smith and Candidate Jones are running for president. The colonel likes Candidate Smith so much he starts dragging guys into his office and asking them who they’re voting for. Ten soldiers claim they’re voting for Jones. Three days later, the colonel finds reasons to bust all ten soldiers back to private, sending a very clear message: you WILL vote the way the colonel wants you to, or else.

[mopinko]

4. dang. that's a little worse than the general public, i think.

the brass hates him, too. my nephew quit a job high up in the pentagon that he worked his whole life for.

[Kid Berwyn]

6. Cadet Bonespurs thinks he's above the law.

That’s unconstitutional and those who know don’t like it.

[Johnny2X2X]

7. I think him interfering with their leaders is a red line

The military prides themselves on honor and integrity. To see Trump stepping on the feet of their leaders trying to enforce their system of discipline and honor is an affront to everything many of them believe.

[Hoyt]

8. Sadly, trump still has better ratings among military than Obama. That's disappointing.

[Johnny2X2X]

15. Yes and no

Obama had lower favorable ratings, but also lower extremely unfavorable by a lot.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/2017/01/08/the-obama-era-is-over-here-s-how-the-military-rates-his-legacy/

[Farmer-Rick]

9. Saw this coming.

Trump trampled on the authority of all Naval Officers. Is he going to be out at sea to make the decisions when the sh*t hits the fan? Or is he just going to make the easy decisions from behind a desk while others do the real work?

Whatever happened to the golden rule of praise in public, reprimand in private? I guess that only applies to non-bone spur-cowards.

[UTUSN]

13. K&R

[Amimnoch]

14. Military spending up, military pay down.

Probably hasn’t helped him with this poll either.

Increased spending to military industrial complex, but lower pay for the troops themselves. I wouldn’t be happy with him either.

[onetexan]

16. spending is up only so the Idiot can puff up his chest to other tinpot dictators of the world

he could give a rat's arse about the livelihood of the service men & women and their families who sacrifice so much in service of the country. The Idiot just wants to usurp them as he does everyone else around him. The man is sociopathic. He is narcissistic & incapable of empathy - the 2 things that make him so dangerous and unfit in every way.

[Baked Potato]

17. The questions on Syria and the Border Wall are even worse for Trump

Last edited Wed Dec 18, 2019, 01:09 PM - Edit history (1)

This poll is remarkable in that Trump touts the Military as one of his go to groups to come out and protect him in his time of need. I have made some opinions here on DU alluding to the Military not really being onboard with this imposter of a commander.

His policies and the way he treats rank-and-file service members from Private to General is disgusting. He interjects himself smack dab in the middle of good order and discipline which is counterproductive. He undermines command authority and destroys traditional control in ways that are insulting and dangerous to morale.

He is a con man and manipulator, but he is no Leader. He can issue orders, but he is no Commander. He doesn’t understand Esprit De Corps, nor does he make a point to do so. It takes awhile for the military to come to grips with the fact their CinC is not putting Country before self.

In the end, this can serve Putin’s goal of weakening the USA. But, not to worry, as the Military is bigger and better than any false leader. We can still depend on our fellow Americans to be professional and perform honorably and admirably when called upon.

[Still In Wisconsin]

18. But just the other day he was boasting about having so many generals...

You know, HIS generals.

[ET Awful]

19. As someone who's been in the military, this tells me two things

1. The people saying "unfavorable" are so disapproving that they are willing to go against the tacit "we don't talk shit about the chain of command publicly" understanding. I have actually be in situations where were explicitly ordered NOT to say anything to anyone in any form negative regarding the CiC. The prime example that comes to mind was during the LA Riots when we received orders directly from division HQ to NOT say anything less than complimentary regarding the President.

2. If 53% are willing to say they disapprove, I'd bet money that there are at least another 5-10% who are too reluctant to state their real opinion. That 53% disapproval is VERY likely to be closer to 60%.

[Baked Potato]

20. I agree with 1. And 2.

Yes.

[sarge43]

24. Yup.

Them What Be In Charge have a bad habit of shooting the messenger, so the subords learn to keep their mouth shut. Any time some flag says "I know what the troops are thinking."; ah no ma'am/sir, you don't because you don't like what they say.

Regardless of time or place, a military is darker reflection of the society that supports it. Tending somewhat to the conservative side, if 60% of the society doesn't like something, pretty good bet that at least 50% of the grunts don't either.