Vindman is a Jew, Not a Ukrainian

[mucifer]

Forget about the specifics of the testimony of Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman in the Ukraine matter and what it might explain or portend. Let’s talk instead for a minute about the specifics of one particular insinuation about him almost from the minute we learned of his existence. Three different Trump-friendly people—Fox’s Laura Ingraham and Brian Kilmeade and CNN commentator and former Congressman Sean Duffy—went on television and offered variations on the same theme. The theme is: Vindman was born in Ukraine, he’s therefore Ukrainian, and so maybe there’s something untoward going on here. Duffy said it best, or worst. “It seems very clear that he is incredibly concerned about Ukrainian defense. I don’t know that he’s concerned about American policy,” Duffy said. “We all have an affinity to our homeland where we came from … he has an affinity for the Ukraine.”

Aside from suggesting for the purposes of deflecting criticism of Donald Trump that a career Army officer might have a dual-loyalty problem, which is one of the lowest things I can imagine any American politician or commentator insinuating, Duffy is committing a category error here. The fact is that Ukraine is not Vindman’s “homeland.” For one thing, he was taken from there by his parents when he was three, and Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union. For another, Vindman was born a Jew, and to promote the idea that the land of the USSR ever constituted any kind of “homeland” for any Jewish person is an infamy.

Jews were subjected to unique persecution in the USSR both because of classic Marxist ideas about “the Jewish problem” and the historical anti-Semitism that was a lamentably common feature of life in Ukraine for centuries. The idea that Vindman would have grown up with any sense of fealty to the Ukrainian volk is patently absurd, not only because he and his twin brother are clearly ardent American patriots who have committed their lives to this country’s service but because I have yet to meet a single Jew who came to America from the Soviet Union who feels any kind of personal or historical tie beyond any relatives who might have been left behind.

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/politics-ideas/alexander-vindman-is-a-jew-not-a-ukrainian-mr-duffy/

If you know any European Jews you probably will never hear us say we are proud to be of Russian or Polish or German etc heritage. You will hear us say our heritage is Jewish or Ashkenazi Jewish which is a catch all term for European Jewish.

Feel free to use this in discussions with deplorables.

[LuvNewcastle]

1. That's an important distinction and I don't doubt Vindman's loyalty

to the U.S., but I wouldn't even care if he considered himself Ukrainian. I would trust the word of a Ukrainian in this matter before I would trust a Russian, and certainly Putin. The Ukrainians are trying to rule themselves and the Russians are invading them and trying to keep them under Russian control. We know where Trump's loyalties lie, and these pundits are highlighting it. I wonder how many of these RW tv pundits are getting Russian money.

[elias7]

2. The bulk of my family came around turn of 19th century from Belarus

But we are Jewish, not Belarusian. Some family members were in Ukraine, Poland, etc. we are ethnically Jewish, however.

I was not aware about Vindman’s ethnicity. Makes the Ukrainian devotion all the more ridiculous.

[Raftergirl]

34. This.

My family came from what is now Lithuania and Ukraine and we are neither Ukrainian or Lithuanian. We only ended up there from being forced to move to “the Pale”. We are ethnically Jews. Even our DNA shows this - identifying us as Ashkenazi. My DNA also shows I have Sephardic heritage - which proves my familiy’s written history of an ancestor that fled Spain during the Inquisition. That ancestor - on my maternal side - went to France then somehow ended up in Lithuania. My father’s family on both his maternal and paternal side were in Ukraine. As late as 1990 - my fathers 1st cousin and his family were still in Ukraine when they left to come here because it had gotten very bad for Jews again. They have never considered themselves Ukrainian.

I found them only two years ago through DNA match. My father and grandfather had believed no one had survived the war as they heard nothing from them after 1938. It was quite the surprise to find them! I only wish my dad had lived to know he had family.

[usaf-vet]

3. CNN's Sean Duffy gets called out again. This time by a commentarymagazine.com contributor.

Three different Trump-friendly people—Fox’s Laura Ingraham and Brian Kilmeade and CNN commentator and former Congressman Sean Duffy—went on television and offered variations on the same theme. The theme is: Vindman was born in Ukraine, he’s therefore Ukrainian, and so maybe there’s something untoward going on here. Duffy said it best, or worst. “It seems very clear that he is incredibly concerned about Ukrainian defense. I don’t know that he’s concerned about American policy,” Duffy said. “We all have an affinity to our homeland where we came from … he has an affinity for the Ukraine.”

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/politics-ideas/alexander-vindman-is-a-jew-not-a-ukrainian-mr-duffy/

Aside from suggesting for the purposes of deflecting criticism of Donald Trump that a career Army officer might have a dual-loyalty problem, which is one of the lowest things I can imagine any American politician or commentator insinuating, Duffy is committing a category error here. The fact is that Ukraine is not Vindman’s “homeland.” For one thing, he was taken from there by his parents when he was three, and Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union. For another, Vindman was born a Jew, and to promote the idea that the land of the USSR ever constituted any kind of “homeland” for any Jewish person is an infamy.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

4. I beg to differ.

Are you saying there are no persons of Ukrainian ethnicity who are also Jewish and aren’t proud of where they come from to the point of identification? Because I know of multiple ones, down to the country’s President himself.

Also, it’s certainly unintentional, but this article sends a terrible, terrible message. By this logic, Jews living in the United States don’t identify as Americans, and that only fuels anti Semitic hatred against them.

I understand the traditional Jewish practice of wanting to trace one’s roots to their ancient ancestral homeland, but to ridiculously over simplify things and claim they can’t also identity with other ethnic markers is foolish and does not help the conversation in the least.

[Celerity]

7. [phone]

[Joinfortmill]

10. The Pale of Settlement

In an ideal world, I would agree, but the history of the treatment of the Jewish people in Russia/USSR reflects a different reality.

[mountain grammy]

15. I can only speak of my own experience

My mother’s Jewish family came from Poland, 1911, with my mom being the first child born in America. They never thought of themselves as Polish because Poland didn’t consider them Polish.
I never heard a single relative ever say we were Polish, we were not Polish, we were Jewish even though the family had roots in Poland going back many generations. I was a teenager when I found out Poland was our country of origin.
My uncle, who escaped from Russia after seeing his parents murdered during a pogrom, never considered himself Russian.. he was Jewish first, and American second.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

36. How one identifies him/herself can be a complex thing.

I can understand how people such as your relatives might take personal experiences into account when choosing to identify one’s self, but it’s not necessarily a hard and tight rule. Consider that you have a lot of descendants of slaves in this country and it’s not a question of them not identifying as Americans.

The fact is, many people are able to identify themselves in different ways depending on the situation, and not even consciously think about it. Just as a personal example, I was born and raised in Maryland. I now live in Florida, where I’ve lived for quite a while. I have an affinity for both places. But sometimes I will find myself referring to me as a Maryland, and other times I will call myself a Floridian. And it’s not even conscious on my part. Usually it is dependent on who I might be talking to or where I’m at.

In his written statement Vindman appeared to speak with pride about his Ukrainian roots. He also identified himself as a Jew. It didn’t seem mutually exclusive to him, as it’s not something that is mutually exclusive to a lot of similarly situated folks. The bottom line, however, is that he did what he did not because he was Ukrainian or Jewish, but rather for the love of the country that he serves today. And that cannot be lost amongst all of this.

[mountain grammy]

39. Thank you.

This is such a thoughtful and eloquent response that I’ve had to read it several times before I answered.
I think you understood what I was saying better than I did. Gave me a new perspective.

[abqtommy]

17. I agree. If we see all witnesses described by their ethinic and religious backgrounds then we can

relax and say that this use of the word "Jew" is more of the same. But if not, as is the case here, then
use of the word "Jew" is a dog whistle to haters. Due to that it's good to have this discussion.

[Sgent]

23. In many of those countries

Jews weren't even considered citizens until the USSR (which concurrently eliminated all religion). They were often and forcibly removed depending on who was in power.

[guillaumeb]

28. Well said.

[safeinOhio]

5. All FOX news commentators

lead to Putin.

[dewsgirl]

27. Indeed.

[VOX]

40. FACT.

It’s a sad but inescapable truth.

[PCIntern]

6. The subtext from these RWers is that he's a Jew,

And thus can’t be trusted.

When you’re appealing to NAZIS it makes all the sense in the world.

[Jillgirl]

8. That may be what comes across but I doubt that it's what they mean.

The piece's author, Podhoretz, is Jewish, and the publication, Commentary Magazine, has Jewish leanings.

[karynnj]

22. Commentary is a right leaning Jewish magazine

The author of this wrote a book with the thesis that Jews, if they considered their own needs, should vote Republican.

When I was in a synagogue, we tried to have a book discussion on this -- the big problem - ALL of us were in the same position - voting Jewish values MADE us liberal Democrats. To have a good discussion, a professor, very liberal, opted to argue his points - such as they were. It was a pretty whiny book.

[choie]

33. You beat me to it, Karynnj

I was just going to post the fact that Commentary is a right leaning mag. I wouldn't trust a word that podhoretz writes.

[waddirum]

9. how does being Jewish make one not a Ukrainian?

They are not mutually exclusive anymore than being American and Jewish.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

13. Exactly. It's a terrible argument.

“Vindman couldn’t have been done what he did because he was Ukrainian, because he was actually a Jew!”

It’s a pointless, fallacious and counterproductive argument to make.

Vindman did what he did because he was an American citizen and member of the US Military who valued his love of country over some personal duty to a man who calls himself the President.

Period.

Full stop.

[Lefta Dissenter]

30. + 100,000,000 n/t

👍🏼

[IronLionZion]

11. Plenty of deplorables hate Jewish people and question their loyalty to America

they'll exploit Jewish support for Israel and the worst deplorables will believe in conspiracy theories.

[gordianot]

12. In that case the Orange Monster can fantasize planting Vindman under a Star of David.

I hope this soldier protects himself from the delusional followers of a delusional President who seems willing to turn America into a war zone.

Trump is the definition “enemies foreign or domestic” we are warned in various oaths of service.

[Timmygoat]

14. What in the world

Does it matter what country someones family come from. I have not heard anyone talking about Trump's family heritage, draft dodgers brothel keepers and con men.
This gentleman seems like the kind of person who loves this country and is truly honest and has fought for the country, which is more than any Trump has done.
And look at the Trump kids, and Kushner, all grifters and con-men.
They are not fit to tie this gentleman's shoelaces.

[Danmel]

16. My maternal ancestors were Jews from Belarus/Ukraine

They fled pogroms in the 1920s. They weren't considered byelorussian or Ukrainian by their government or their neighbors and considered themselves to be Jews and later, Americans.

My father survived Auschwitz. My grandparents did not. He was from Poland, not far from Krakow. He was an American Jew from the moment he arrived here. On New year's eve in 1949, he went to Times Square to feel American.

And Vindman is a hero.

[gordianot]

18. Yes Vindman is a hero.

In the view of most Trump supporters they need a distraction to vilify him as an other. Ukrainian, Communist, immigrant any designation that would stick. Anti Semitism would not be out of the question when Trumps central theme is hate.

[JudyM]

21. That story touched my heart.

My grandparents (all 4 of them) loved this country from the moment they set foot on Ellis Island, too. The pogroms were horrific over there in Ukraine... they happily, wholeheartedly become Americans. Communications with family who remained there went silent during WWII and were never regained. What trumpism has shown the world is that 1/3 or more of America is of a similar, albeit politically constrained, ilk.

[Roy Rolling]

19. Apples and Oranges

This conflates a religion with country of birth.

He is always Ukrainian by birthright, he’s also a member of the Jewish faith.

Bad analogy by whoever came up with this—it’s weak.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

20. I am an immigrant.

I was born in the UK, and came to the US when I was six. I am proud to call myself an Englishman (Gilbert and Sullivan's " target="_blank">For He Is An Englishman is going through my mind as I write.

However, I am first and foremost an American. All my education has been in the US, and I have been a US citizen since 1958. I have served in the US Army, where I was a junior infantry officer in Vietnam. While I have positive feelings about my English birth, my loyalty is to the United States of America.

[GulfCoast66]

24. Seems like a damned good American to me!

But what do I know.

[roamer65]

25. Vindman is an American hero.

[Hekate]

26. And his family were refugees from the USSR, of which Ukraine was a part--an important point.

Thanks for bringing this up.

[elleng]

29. Born in Moscow (I think,) he and family left when he was 3.

I was born in Manhattan, lived in Brooklyn til my mother died, left NYC @ age 8 for Long Island; with Russian, Polish, and Roumanian ancestors, always Jewish, I am an American NewYawka, living in Maryland.

[lanlady]

31. Nonsense! President Zelenskyy is Jewish and a proud Ukrainian

and I know plenty of Ukrainian, Belarusian, and Russian Jews who are attached to their homelands.

[dawg day]

32. I definitely caught the dog-whistle of "dual loyalties".

(Used by the same types who expect American Jews to be primarily loyal to Israel and vote Republican, of course-- confusing.)

They just don't want to admit the reality that immigrants to the United States (especially those like Vindman's family who fled oppression) are usually more appreciative of the US and its ideals than most native-borns. Look at the difference between the Vindman family (three brothers serving in the military) and the native-born Trumps (none of them ever serving anything but themselves).

But Trumpers look at him and see ... I don't know. They say they think he loves America, but I think they know they're lying.

[eppur_se_muova]

37. Actually, I did see someone(s) on Fox using that "dual" or "divided" loyalty language already.

I thought at the time "don't that realize that phrase evokes memories of anti-Semitism in a lot of viewers"? Silly me -- OF COURSE THEY DO !! That's WHY they used it. They WANT 45's base to hear that particular dog-whistle.

[Retrograde]

35. And - he's also an American!

People can have multiple identities if they want. I'm not going to tell anyone what they should call themselves or how they should identify. If Vindman wants to identify as a Ukrainian (or former Ukrainian, or Ukranian by birth, or whatever), that's his business.

BTW, countries in Eastern Europe changed borders frequently, so people in the area identified themselves by ethnic group. My forebearers came to the US long before the country of Poland existed, yet identified themselves by their ethnic identity - Polish - rather than their official nationalities -German or Russian.

[Behind the Aegis]

38. As evidenced by previous comments, don't expect many non-Jews to understand this.

Jews from other countries identify as members of those countries, just as you and I identify as Americans. However, many Jews who fled Europe (prior to and after WWII), Africa, or Middle Eastern countries (after WWII), often identify as current nationality, Jewish, then the 'other' is often described as "being from some place (the "Old Country", without ever saying which one). They almost describe in ancestral terms, much the same way I "am Scottish and Irish", even though they are recent immigrants. You can also see the ignorance in that many still think of being Jewish as only a religion, when, for many, it is also an ethnic identity, but for some, to acknowledge that 'ethnicity' creates problems for the non-Jews.

Given the number of high-profile Jews involved in the Ukrainian mess, you can be damn assured our people will come under attack.

[VOX]

41. Another favorite MAGAt dog-whistle: "globalist"

Anyone with a modicum of knowledge of 20th Century history knows that the term “globalist” — a favorite slur frequently uttered by Trump’s team—means, in a derogatory sense, “Jew.”

For example, philanthropist George Soros, a Jew, is often called (among other epithets) a “globalist” by the right.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/555479/
The Origins of the 'Globalist' Slur
President Trump recently used the epithet to describe his outgoing National Economic Council director—but the seeds of its disparaging use were firmly planted 75 years ago.
The Atlantic
By BEN ZIMMER, MAR 14, 2018
After National Economic Council Director Gary Cohn announced his resignation last week, President Trump offered a back-handed compliment to his departing adviser: “He may be a globalist, but I still like him.” Mick Mulvaney, the director of the Office of Management and Budget, chimed in with his own statement: “I never expected that the co-worker I would work closest, and best, with at the White House would be a ‘globalist.’”

Despite the seemingly joking use of the term “globalist” by Trump and Mulvaney, many were quick to point to the word’s unseemly past as an anti-Semitic slur, embraced in alt-right circles before spreading into broader political discourse. As the Anti-Defamation League’s Jonathan Greenblatt put it, “Where the term originates from is a reference to Jewish people who are seen as having allegiances not to their countries of origin like the United States, but to some global conspiracy.” Greenblatt said it’s “disturbing” when public officials “literally parrot this term which is rooted in prejudice.”

While the latest round of “globalist” name-calling may stem from the likes of Steve Bannon and Alex Jones, the word has a history that long predates the Trump era. To understand the complex roots of the “globalist” epithet, let’s turn the clock back 75 years, to 1943.

With the U.S. deeply mired in World War II, “globalism” and “globalist” could, at least early on, be applied to Adolf Hitler’s rapacious expansionism combated by the Allied effort. Ernst Jäckh, a staunchly anti-Nazi academic who taught at Columbia University after fleeing Germany in the 1930s, published a book on the battle against “Hitlerism” titled The War for Man’s Soul. Jäckh used “globalism” to describe Hitler’s world-conquering ambitions:

Hitler … reaches out for the sun itself. He has set out to conquer the world to make the globe a German possession! He aims at more than military or economic and political conquest. He has embarked on a “holy war” as the God-sent leader of a “chosen people” bred not for imperialism but for globalism—his world without end.
<snip>