I'd say the wealth tax needs a provision that exempts anyone that's poor and hits the lottery

[brewens]

for the first time. That might make "Bubba" feel better about it. It might be interesting. What's ol' Bubba do if he just wins a few grand? Pay taxes on it and save the exemption for the big one? I'd say that should be an option too.

[DBoon]

1. The Federal Income Tax system used to have something like that.

It was called "income averaging"

As with many deductions that benefited the working class, Reagan did away with it

[former9thward]

49. The tax bill came from Congress.

Who controlled it?

[Beryllinthranox]

2. Flat tax

Seems more fair, with room for the poorest. Somebody buy me a winner and I'll get back to you.

[PSPS]

3. Flat tax is a giveaway to the top 0.01%

[Beryllinthranox]

6. How so? I don't understand.

I just cut a check for 5500 for this quarter. My neighbor, who doesn't work, will get another 16k as a refund. Again. I know the system is fucked up, but wtf?

[angstlessk]

8. You do your neighbors taxes, do ya?

Sugar, if you are so wealthy you pay $5,500 quarterly in taxes why are you whining?

[Beryllinthranox]

11. Took me forever to get mine. My kids come first.

Level the playing field. These billionaires pay nothing.

[angstlessk]

14. Seems you don't like the poor?

Now it's billionaires?

[Beryllinthranox]

16. Was born poor, ain't gonna die poor.

How about you?

[angstlessk]

18. My family was never poor

being poor when one dies, though, kinda sticks it to the 'man'

Disposing of the body and such.

[Beryllinthranox]

20. I want my last check to bounce.

Stickin' it to the Man is a way of life.

[angstlessk]

22. Now THAT'S a plan

I think that would be the tombstone?

[elias7]

31. I think Trump would agree with that

That’s his way of life

[LexVegas]

34. "My neighbor, who doesn't work, will get another 16k as a refund." Fuckin' made up bullshit.

[Mariana]

46. Plenty of Americans truly believe shit like that, though.

It's a real problem.

[TidalWave46]

37. That's funny.

Completely untrue and hilarious.

[MrsCoffee]

41. Cool story, bro.

[Hoyt]

4. Next we'll hear endorsement of 9, 9 ,9 or some other right wing tax scheme.

[ret5hd]

5. You're a goddamned genius.

[unblock]

13. Nothing fair about it. Its only real appeal is that it's mathematically simple

People have a diminishing utility for money. 17% hurts ordinary people a lot harder than it hurts the wealthy. So what's fair about taxing everyone at the same rates?

If you or I lost 17% of our life savings it would be devastating. It would mean changing life plans, delsying retirement, etc.

Bill gates could lose that much in one really bad day in the stock market, and make it up by doing absolutely nothing over the next year. in the meanwhile, he wouldn't have to change a damn thing.

[Beryllinthranox]

19. You're wrong.

I spent a lifetime making sure the winds of change doesn't fuck me and mine. How about you?

[unblock]

23. You no like tax. Got it.

Otherwise, boring.

[MineralMan]

45. Protest too much?

So it appears.

[edhopper]

44. Because it will be based on "income"

and the rich have always found ways to hide income.
The Flat Tax is a Right Wing dream.

[brewens]

7. Why is it that some people assume a flat tax means they would pay less? n/t

[Beryllinthranox]

26. That's what I want to know.

10%? None of these rich fucks pay that. Let's not bother with corporations. AT&T and Amazon have gotten away with zero taxes paid. Equality should mean everyone coughs up the dough.

Equality never existed, and this is why. If I'm wrong, please clue me in.

[unblock]

9. Here's my theory: if you have $100 million in your bank account,

just shut up about paying a $3 million wealth tax.

Waaaah, big bad gubmint only left me with $97 million.

Doesn't matter whether you won the lottery or invented a cure for a rare disease or you inherited it from your great-great grandfather's plantation.

All anyone needs to know about the wealth tax is that *after* you pay it, you're still insanely rich.

[Beryllinthranox]

12. And you're not.

Do better. I bust my ass for a living and play by the rules. Don't you?

ETA. 300k is insanely rich? Rent a dump in SF.

[unblock]

17. Which wealth tax affects $300k?

I think warren's plan hits $50 million+ and sanders' plan hits $32 million plus.



Nice to know you worked for your money. How do you feel about lottery winners?

[Beryllinthranox]

21. Great! I applaud the suddenly fortunate.

But in the end, we should all pay our fair share.

[unblock]

24. Sure, but it's all about what's fair, isn't it.

[csziggy]

40. Right now federal estate taxes start at $11.4 million

Most relatively simple estates (cash, publicly traded securities, small amounts of other easily valued assets, and no special deductions or elections, or jointly held property) do not require the filing of an estate tax return. A filing is required for estates with combined gross assets and prior taxable gifts exceeding $1,500,000 in 2004 - 2005; $2,000,000 in 2006 - 2008; $3,500,000 for decedents dying in 2009; and $5,000,000 or more for decedent's dying in 2010 and 2011 (note: there are special rules for decedents dying in 2010); $5,120,000 in 2012, $5,250,000 in 2013, $5,340,000 in 2014, $5,430,000 in 2015, $5,450,000 in 2016, $5,490,000 in 2017, $11,180,000 in 2018, and $11,400,000 in 2019.
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/estate-tax

In addition, if a couple jointly owns the assets, any unused estate tax rate can be passed along to the surviving spouse for use on their death.

So if the couple's net worth is $5 million when the first spouse dies, the remaining estate exempt from taxes can be applied to the surviving spouse. If the assets increase drastically (and if the tax rates remained the same), the surviving spouse will have an estate tax amount of $17.3 million.*


*$5 million jointly owned = $2.5 million in taxes exempted, leaving $5.9 million in exempt estate from the first spouse. $11.4 million + $5.9 million = $17.3 million in estate exempt from taxes.

If the assets are not jointly owned, it gets a little more complicated. A spouse's share is considered 30% of the estate, which is not taxed until the surviving spouse dies. So if a husband owns all the assets of $5 million, the wife's exempt share would be $1.5 million and the exempted part of the husband's estate is $3.5 million. The rest of the $7.9 million estate exemption would go to the wife's estate, giving her a possible exemption of $19.3 million.


**** I am not a tax professional or estate attorney. What I have written above is from what I have read on the IRS site and what I have learned from dealing with the estates of my parents and my mother in law.

[StarfishSaver]

15. "Waaaah, big bad gubmint only left me with $97 million" IKR?

[Dan]

27. Curious about that...if you start with $100 Million and then

the wealth tax is 3%, leaving you $97 million.

New year - assuming no change in status, are you taxed on the $97 Million, thus reducing your wealth by 2.91 Million or leaving you with 94.09 million.

And does that continue until you reach the $50 Million at some future point?

Just curious.

[unblock]

28. Yeah, but that's assuming your wealth produces zero income

So if you're completely hoarding it, sure. But then, it's not bad public policy to get that wealth back in circulation through a tax.

In reality, that wealth is easily earning more than 3%.

No billionaires are being broken by this tax.

[elias7]

32. So that means they'd rely on capital gains not to be taxed down to zero?

[unblock]

33. wealth lets you make money many ways.

interest, capital gains, ordinary income.

if you have that kind of money you can make all kinds of extra money.

but yeah, the idea of a wealth tax is not only that the wealthy can more easily afford it, but also that it encourages wealth to be in circulation rather than hoarded.

if i have a private art collection that's hugely valuable but no one can see it but me, that's a waste and contracts the economy. a wealth tax would encourage me to set up a gallery so other can see it, or to more actively trade in art in order to pay the wealth tax. or it takes a small portion of my other money for the privilege of hoarding.

so it would really be a problem only for billionaires who keep it all stuffed under the mattress. in that case, $1 billion, after 40 years of being taxed at 3% would be left with roughly $296 million. i still can't feel sorry for someone in that situation.

wealth tax proposals i've seen only affect stashes of millions, like $50 millions in warren's proposal. so not "zero" in any event.

[TidalWave46]

38. Far too many people don't understand the difference between labor and capital. NT

[muriel_volestrangler]

36. No, it means they'd rely on capital gains and various income not to be taxed down to 50 million

Why is it so hard to use the figures already in this thread than a strawman of "zero"?

The various income being dividends, employment income or maybe direct rent from properties (though I'd guess people with $50 million in assets have organised that as a company so it's a dividend).

[Dan]

43. No, maybe not broken by tax but

The monied class will move ....

[lettucebe]

10. IRS takes 24% off the top, then you are taxed based on your tax rate

So, depending on how you elect to take the prize, you have to report the winnings as income and pay taxes like everyone else.

If things change, then they pay the new rates. Personally, it'd hurt to pay them but hey, you just won a ton of free money! Don't see why rules should be different for gambling winnings

[Beryllinthranox]

25. Sounds like it doesn't pay to be either successful or lucky.

The lottery is nothing but a tax on people who suck at math to begin with.

[flotsam]

29. Truly?

Then try being poor.

[Mariana]

47. You pay some tax, and you keep the difference.

How do you interpret that to mean "it doesn't pay to be either successful or lucky"?

[brewens]

30. It's that I've heard idiots that have nothing justify tax cuts for the wealthy because they don't

want to have to pay a lot of taxes when they hit the lottery.

[fescuerescue]

35. IF you start carving exceptions

then you'll never stop.

I can hear it now "The government rewards some dumbass lottery winner, but punishes the person who works hard for 30 years to actually earn it"

[Happy Hoosier]

42. Unless you are worth hundreds of millions....

you ain't paying a wealth tax. The point of a wealth tax isn't just fairness. It's to keep money in the economy working. The wealthy park their money in the capital markets where it is very inefficient at producing economic activity. Less wealthy people pay a higher percentage of their income in basic necessities and consumer transactions tend to multiply economic activity.

I work hard too. I seek to look after my family and children. I want my daughter to benefit from the fruits of my labors. But I don;t feel the need to stick it to poor people to do it. And I want to pay my share towards a just a fair society.

[fescuerescue]

48. I support the wealth tax

But I have no illusions that it will be limited to the very very wealthy, any more than the income tax stayed limited to the very very wealthy.

Within a couple decades or less, it'll be down into the middle class range just like all taxes are.

Gotta remember, the Democrats aren't always in charge. 50% of the time Republicans are making tax policy and you can bet they will be sure to push that down the rest of us.

In 50 years it'll probably be upside down, with the wealthy not paying wealth tax and the Middle class carrying it all.

[TidalWave46]

39. Not only no...

But as is current practice, the “tax man” should be at the table as they are collecting in order to get their first payment and to educate “Bubba” on the responsibilities of his new found wealth. And to congratulate him, of course. Maybe even wear an Uncle Sam outfit to the meeting.