Why do you think Dems are refusing to legally punish anyone?

[OliverQ]

All the ignored subpoenas, the refusal to turn over documents, the breach of security by 40 Republicans storming in a SCIF and recording themselves there...

Republicans keep breaking the law because no one is punishing them. Why do you think Dems are refusing to use inherent contempt or the Sergeant at Arms to arrest people?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

1. ????????????????? Leadership doesn't want to???????

Peter Daou former Clinton advisor:

Link to tweet

?s=19

[NurseJackie]

30. I know... this OP is offensive and wrong in so many ways!

I haven't used the "ignore" feature in a long long long time.

[OliverQ]

44. You ignore someone because they ask a question about why something isn't happening?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

49. Constructive criticism is allowed

[sheshe2]

59. We have an Impeachment Inquiry.

We have some that are obeying subpoenas. Every obstruction of justice ie the GOP stunt et all adds to that charge. Intimidating witnesses is obstruction of justice. You thought that this was going to be quick and easy? Seriously?

It's happening. Patience, grasshopper.

The Arc of the Moral Universe Is Long, But It Bends Toward Justice

[NurseJackie]

61. LOL

No. Guess again.

[GeorgeGist]

66. If that was true, you'd have answered the question.

[NurseJackie]

69. OGG! GMAFB! It is true. The question has already been answered.

One only needs to read and look further than the tip of their own nose.

[NRaleighLiberal]

2. it's been baffling me for years.

[whathehell]

39. Me too.. It's making me crazy.

[Jake Stern]

3. Think part of it has to do with optics

Some feel like if the Dems push too hard they’ll drive away voters.

There is some truth to this: apparently the asshole Republicans who stormed the secure meeting room wanted to be taken out by force to make Dems look bad.

[patricia92243]

12. I had not thought of that. Excellent point!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

55. Conversely, not pushing can drive away or at the

least demotivate your own voters. Especially when you add in that we have no election protection law.

[LakeArenal]

4. Ya'all went for weeks hounding for impeachment proceedings..

Then when Pelosi announced it everyone thought wow she played the cards just right.

Now folks are assuming Leaders have no plan for the current obstruction?

[Kingofalldems]

17. Yes. Quite interesting as the goalposts have been moved.

[StarfishSaver]

29. Interesting how that's happening, isn't it?

[ismnotwasm]

35. +infinity

[Codeine]

53. Ah the wisdom and political acumen

of the Internet Rando. Ain’t it great?

[hlthe2b]

5. The ignored subpoenas is a very different issue than the RW storming of the SCIF. The former has

been discussed here quite a bit so I will attempt the second.

Congressmen have immunity against arrest while fulfilling duties in Congress. (YES, I agree that they were not fulfilling their actual duties nor following the rules, but this is why they were not arrested. Schiff (and likely Pelosi) determined that forcing them out via the Sargeant at Arms would only give them a propaganda photo to push their idiocy on Fox and Breitbart, so they determined not to escalate and simply waited until a scheduled vote for them to vacate, which they did. However, it is quite possible that these morons will lose security clearances for this stunt rendering them unable to serve on committees that require one and could even impact their ability to obtain one in future work.

To this end, a formal complaint has been registered with the Sargeant at Arms, the parliamentarian has ruled against Gaetz et all and a request that they loose clearances submitted.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[OliverQ]

11. Two points on this.

According to the Speech and Debate Clause, committing a felony is an exception to protection from arrest. For example, shooting one of their colleagues who gives a speech they don't like on the House floor would not be protected. I imagine breaching national security and recording themselves in a SCIF would fall under that exception, but who knows.

Second, I'm not sure how Congressional clearances work. I was under the impression they automatically get a clearance just by being a member of Congress and it doesn't require vetting. Are there different levels of clearance between say the Intel committee members and a less classified role like Transportation or Education? I wasn't aware members could lose a clearance unless they're expelled from Congress.

[hlthe2b]

15. I don't disagree with the technicalities. I just believe "practicalities" drove Schiff's response

and that he determined not to give these pissants a "win" by letting it escalate, but rather would address punitive action afterwards.

And yes, there are different levels of clearance for those on Intelligence versus those committees not dealing with national security issues. They (members of Congress) don't go through the same clearance process as other Federal employees, including their staff, but they are administered specific security oaths that are different for routine versus highly classified committee work.

So, while Congressional Reps don't have a specific 'clearance" to pull, they could be removed or found ineligible based on this action to serve on those committees.

[onenote]

76. If you can find a statute that says unauthorized entry in the Committee's SCIF is a felony,

I'd be interested in seeing it.

The Intelligence Committee rules govern the SCIF and those rules basically provide that a member that enters the SCIF without authorization will have the matter referred to the Ethics Committee.

I'm surprised that so many DUers seem to think they know more about the law than Schiff and the rest of the Democratic leadership.

[FrankBooth]

6. Simple

Democratic leadership would rather win the war than a single battle. And they will, just watch.

[pecosbob]

7. Republicans are attempting to create the consitutional crisis we all saw...Dems are ignoring them

Since the naked quid pro quo is indefensible in their view they want to escalate their war on the the process itself. All along the House has said they will let the process in the courts concerning the ignored subpeonas play out.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

8. Eyes on the prize.

[DrToast]

9. This.

[Kingofalldems]

10. Looks like an attack on Democrats from here.

[OliverQ]

45. Then you should get glasses.

Asking a question about something many people are wondering about is not an attack on Democrats. If you view any post on this board that involves asking questions about Democratic strategies as an attack on Democrats, maybe you shouldn't post here.

But I do appreciate those people here who gave substantive answers and their thoughts on the matter unlike those who claim they put me on ignore for asking a question.

[shanti]

13. It will get to the point

that it will be taken to the courts on this, IMO. Lawrence (or Rachel? one of them) discussed this last night. When they defy the courts, and they will, it will be a defining moment in our history.

[Locutusofborg]

14. Arresting the opposition creates martyrs

The last thing Dems want is for R’s to become sympathetic victims. Take the scofflaws to court, get civil contempt judgements against them and let them be fined for every day they fail to appear.

[iscooterliberally]

16. I think they're being cautious with good reason.

With all the mass shootings and violence and guns on the street they are right to be wary. Remember that house baseball game a while back? It's not exactly true that no one has been punished. Cohen and Manafort are sitting in jail right now and many others have been indicted. The SCIF thing just happened yesterday and I hope there are serious consequences for that in the near future. Not all the subpoenas have been ignored and many are testifying. I don't think the inherent contempt thing is the right way to go, yet. They're still in investigation mode, collecting facts. Letting the republicans act out with silly stunts only makes them look worse. The Dems are the adults in the room.

[abqtommy]

18. I think that people with a smarter brain than mine are working the strategy that will harm the

reTHUGS politically in the short term. Meanwhile we are seeking legal redress through the courts and
that looks more promising every day. If we can prevent reTHUG miscreants being seen as martyrs and increasing their corrupt support then good. There's plenty of time to take legal action and the reTHUGS know that accomodations for them at Gitmo are in their future. Chill, Nancy and Adam got this.

[NurseJackie]

19. I trust Nancy Pelosi's judgement on this. She knows what she's doing.

That's why she's been chosen by her colleagues to be Speaker. She can easily withstand the sniping and cheap-shots and insults and innuendo from the sidelines.

[Kingofalldems]

21. Excellent.

Clear attack from my perspective. Glad someone else agrees.

[2naSalit]

22. +1

[StarfishSaver]

31. Thank you, Jackie

[NCLefty]

20. Not sure they have the actual power everyone expects them to have.

Is there even a cell in the Capitol? I've heard conflicting things.

And Barr isn't going to be helpful.

[NurseJackie]

23. Many people have the "video game" or "hollywood movie" perception of how things work...

... or how they fantasize about how they'd LIKE them to work. And when our thoughtful and competent politicians don't engage in kneejerk reactions or showboating or other theatrics (because they're focused on something more important) well, that's what motivates outright insults and smears... or backhanded comments and "innocent questions" like those contained in the original post. The implication is, of course, that our leadership is incompetent or afraid... and that's just wrong. Things like this serve no good purpose. It's just how impatient people react when thing aren't happening fast enough for them. I wish it was happening faster too... but at least I know enough to trust our experienced leadership.

[onenote]

77. +1

[Skittles]

42. strange how repukes always seem to have that power

[BumRushDaShow]

64. Did Lyin' Ryan call the Sargeant-at-Arms or Capitol Police

to haul Democrats away when this happened -





The issue here is who ends up "firing the first shot" that might start a "real" war. One side keeps egging it on and instigating, which is a "tactic", where the hope is the side they instigate ends up falling for it and goes that next step... and then that will justify them using the next step in the fullest to their advantage in the future because the other side "started it". Sortof like how in football, a wily lineman might make a brief (barely legal) move that seems to suggest to the opposing line that the ball was snapped (but it wasn't) causing that opposing team's defensive line to suddenly surge forward and get penalized with an "offside" (I think they call that "drawing an offside" ).

[musicblind]

70. Republicans arrested Democratic Congressmen?

I must have missed that.

[Skittles]

72. Dems do not behave like repukes

if they did, do you think they'd do NOTHING about it?

[mcar]

24. You do realize that yesterday's Pizza Patrol

wanted and asked to be arrested, don't you? They wanted the optics.

You can question all you want. I trust Pelosi and Schiff.

[Tom Rinaldo]

25. We are using the big gun now with formal impeachment hearings

That is as serious as it gets. That is where the focus now needs to stay. I see no point now in debating former water under the bridge. This is where we are now. Game on.

[NurseJackie]

32. Thank you!

[Tom Rinaldo]

37. You are welcome.

United we stand.

[Lars39]

26. They decided not to buy tickets to the new circus act in town

[StarfishSaver]

27. Maybe because the people most familiar with all of this know it's not as simple as people who don't

know as much as they do think it is.

[onenote]

78. Exactly.

[guillaumeb]

28. This is not reality television.

The good guys do not win at the end of the episode.

The legal process takes time.

[NurseJackie]

33. Excellent analogy!

[guillaumeb]

38. I liked your longer form reply as well.

I was a union representative. To take a case from the beginning to as far as arbitration could easily take 1-2 years.

[ecstatic]

34. I don't know. But I just came on DU because I'm

ready to see somebody locked up!! We have all the evidence, time to start arresting folks!

[whistler162]

36. Unlike what you seem to believe this

is not a 30 minute or 1 hour TV show that wraps up after a single episode. This reminds me of the whining about Pelosi about 1 month ago.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

60. ??? Steve Cohen and others introduced Articles of Impeachment

In 2017. Hardly 1 hr and 30 minutes since then. Trump has committed impeachable crimes continually during his term.

[JudyM]

40. It wouldn't bother me if we'd prosecuted shrub and cheney.... I'm now wary of the pattern...

[StarfishSaver]

41. People complained that Bush wasn't impeached. And now you're complaining because the Dems

who are working their brains and asses off to impeach Trump are refusing to let a few two-bit nitwits goad them into shifting their attention away from that effort?

Speaking of patterns, "Dems are damned if they don't and damned if they do" pattern evidenced in this thread is as plain as day.

[JudyM]

73. I'm not doing anything of the kind.

[Skittles]

43. Dems never held repukes accountable for lying their way into a war

why would they bother with anything else?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

48. +1,000,000

[Generic Brad]

46. All in good time, my pretties

All in good time.

[Joe941]

47. Been wondering too.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

50. Lots are.

[Kaleva]

51. I let Speaker Pelosi think and strategize about stuff like that.

Frankly, I have no choice in the matter anyways and no one here does.

I'll spend my time on things I can have at least some influence on the outcome.

[Codeine]

52. To make sure a segment of DU

has some silly shit to whine about.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

67. Don't forget the 70+% of Dems

[Mr. Ected]

54. The media hasn't exactly been our friend in all this

You could fully expect the media to put the Dems on the defensive if arrests and imprisonment had been employed. It's not a place we want to be. I'm not overly optimistic about our chances, truth be told, but I don't argue with our method. Those pustules may look like something you want to lance, but let's set our sights on the root ball.

[RandySF]

56. DOJ said they will not enforce subpoenas

[Laura PourMeADrink]

57. So one guy (Barr) can control everything that an entire

Department does?

[OliverQ]

58. Congress has inherent contempt power.

They can put people in jail for contempt of Congress on their own.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

62. Last I heard they were studying that. I thought so anyway. Steve Cohen

had said he didn't think anyone was looking into it though. ??

[uponit7771]

63. I understand, Republicans would have no mercy but our cases need to be air tight

[Hortensis]

65. I think it's because they have very good reasons.

Why not do those who also wonder a service and go find out why and start a post with that? It won't take you long. Hint: Begin with finding out who controls the senate. Our votes matter. Give the government to the corrupt extremists controlling today's Republican Party and they will act like corrupt extremists with enormous power.

Btw, I always "refuse" to accept the theme that Democrats could stop the Republicans if they didn't just "refuse" to, or weren't too incompetent. It's usually paired with hostile companion themes that Democrats are therefore responsible for everything conservatives are doing and that Democrats are really no different from Republicans.

[KentuckyWoman]

68. My guess is "picking your battles"

If I'm on the task force and one of the stooges runs a red light on his way to crime central and doesn't know I'm tailing him, then I don't pull him over. I keep following.

And then you have the fact the R's are basically less mature than a 3 yr old having a slap out fit in the middle of the store. Sometimes you just leave them in the floor and walk away. No point rewarding that shit with negative attention.

[customerserviceguy]

71. I suspect

that in all of American history, there really has been no effective mechanism for compulsion to comply with a Congressional subpoena. This worked as long as the political party being investigated cared enough about their reputation with everyday Americans to at least offer some semblance of cooperation, but with the current regime, there is no such feeling of duty to honor the process, even minimally.

The USA is in strange territory, indeed.

[The Mouth]

74. I think it's because it would give them exactly the optics they want

Seeing republican congressmen being perp walked by cops would inflame their base to a degree we can't even comprehend.

Better to punish later, but not give the martyrs.

[itcfish]

75. I guess it sets

A precedent for future inquiries? Or simply do not want to waste valuable time. I wish I knew the answer.

[Bettie]

79. I think it is a good call not to arrest the Republican tantrum with the SCIF

however, I do think that at some point they are going to have to play hardball with those who ignore subpoenas.

But, I guess for now, there are some who are agreeing to testify and it doesn't sound as if it is good for Trump and his minions.

But at some point, there needs to be a consequence for lawless behavior, not just for Trump but for others as well.

[forgotmylogin]

80. Hopefully building up a pile of paperwork evidence when the hammer does come down. (n/t)

(fingers crossed)

[RobinA]

81. Picking Battles,

strategery sic, optics. Despite what seems to be the current thinking, it isn't necessary to fight every possible battle to win the war.

[LanternWaste]

82. The Long con often confuses the short-sighted.

When done right, the victim doesn't even know he's lost until the game is long over.

We're far into the mid-game, and you're asking a variation of "why open with 1.Nf3 instead of 1.e4?"

[Baked Potato]

83. The spectacle of Democrats

handcuffing the poor, innocent, persecuted Republicans is just what they want. It plays into the old “we’re being persecuted” handbook.

Adam Schiff and company are driving them crazy with their steel eyed investigations. Democrats perform real oversight, not the fake BS Republicans do.

We don’t need spectacle. We will win with honesty and integrity and dignity.

[cutroot]

84. I recced this simply because I believe that the issue is weighing heavily on everyone's mind

The responses are enlightening. May cooler heads prevail. Let's not get ourselves stuck in the quagmire of the process. The mud will eventually stick to those that are making it.