General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNBC Weekend News: Second WB emerges. So, first one had
only 2nd hand information, but this latest one evidently has 1st hand. That's more reassuring. But hasn't dump committed enuff impeachable offenses even b4 the Ukraine issue to qualify?
CountAllVotes
(20,875 posts)TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)to put together a winning case.
sprinkleeninow
(20,249 posts)frosting on the cupcake. Are we aiming for an airtight case, or just as close as we can come in our offense.
stopbush
(24,396 posts)Thought I heard that.
the 1st Wb had 1st hand knowledge on some stuff. 2nd hand knowledge on other stuff.
This Wb has 1st hand knowledge. On what, I don't know.
sprinkleeninow
(20,249 posts)mercuryblues
(14,532 posts)There's rumor of another WB out there. this one from the IRS claiming trump tried to interfere with his taxes being audited.
sprinkleeninow
(20,249 posts)RainCaster
(10,882 posts)How many government employees have seen crooked things that pissed them off, or made their skin crawl? Come out of the woodwork please!
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)and the die hard Trump supporters would not care. That is the brilliant simplicity of the "fake news" meme, which evolved from the "liberal media" meme.
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)blueinredohio
(6,797 posts)and he was impeached.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Or maybe she was.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)supposedly was closer to the action and has even more first hand info.
sprinkleeninow
(20,249 posts)Garrett78
(10,721 posts)sprinkleeninow
(20,249 posts)The dirty side are putting it out there that the longer the process takes, the better off dump'll fare. Snakey evil.
sprinkleeninow
(20,249 posts)"So, so corrupt. A joke. A hoax." Yah, we know you are. Knew it all along besides.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Last edited Sun Oct 6, 2019, 10:52 PM - Edit history (2)
If it's out in the open, it can't be a crime.
It's not political; it's about fighting corruption.
Biden's the corrupt one, and Ukraine colluded with the Clinton campaign--it wasn't Russia colluding with my campaign.
There's nothing wrong with having private conversations with foreign leaders. (Except for that pesky Presidential Records Act.)
So-and-so told me to do it.
It was just a joke.
And so on.
As silly and just plain false as those arguments are, Democrats do need to be vigilant about controlling the narrative by pointing out how wrong the arguments are *and* - I would argue - by pointing out what tactic is being employed. Because as obvious as it is to some of us, I guarantee many people aren't going to recognize that Trump and his minions are attempting to convince people that their transparency (never mind that it was forced by the whistleblower) equates to innocence. 'I'm not hiding this, so it can't be wrong.' When he says on live TV that China should investigate Biden, Dem leadership should hold a press conference and spell out exactly what he's doing, which is two things. First and foremost, he's committing an impeachable offense. Secondly, he's trying to fool the public into believing that crimes committed openly can't possibly be crimes. Dear American people, don't be fooled--transparent illegality is still illegality. And remind the American people that there is still much that *is* being hidden, including transcripts of calls that have no business being stored on a server meant for highly classified records. And remind the American people that making threats to whistleblowers is witness intimidation and a crime. Never underestimate the ignorance of the American people; they need constant reminders.
And Democrats also need to avoid taking too long, as the public could get bored. At the same time, to have any chance at flipping any Republicans (let alone flipping enough to get a conviction), Schiff and Co. have to gather a mountain of damning evidence. Since there's little chance they'll get the documents or the testimony they've requested -- subpoenas and judge's orders mean nothing to this administration -- Schiff and Co. are reliant upon more and more whistleblowers coming forward. Also, they need public support for impeachment and removal to continue to rise, which is where controlling the narrative comes into play.
I suspect even audio of Trump engaged in clear quid pro quo with Putin (such as doing Lord Vladimir's bidding in exchange for him not releasing tapes of Trump engaged in heinous acts) would not be enough to flip 20 Republican Senators. Those assholes are so corrupt, so bent on bringing about fascism and so ethically bankrupt that I'm not sure anything would sway them to remove Trump from office. I don't give a shit what Biden says, there are most certainly not "a lot of really good Republicans." Maybe, just maybe, more whistleblowers coming forward and public support for conviction continuing to rise will convince McConnell and Co. to persuade Trump to resign, but we can't count on that. This is not the Republican Party of 1974 (not that those Republicans were all that great).
sprinkleeninow
(20,249 posts)Garrett78
(10,721 posts)For instance, I think Pelosi and Schiff should have immediately pounced when Trump publicly called for China to investigate Biden, but I can accept that someone might feel differently.
But something that is definitely not happening that I've been saying for a long time should be happening is Dems explaining (in very simple terms) the tactic that Republicans are employing in order to discombobulate the masses. Let's face it, most people need help understanding not just the what but also the *why* behind various lies and misleading statements. If prominent Dems, those with a platform, continually point out these tactics, eventually it'll register in the public consciousness. But it requires a dogged persistence. Repeat, repeat, repeat. That's how Republicans made "liberal media" a household term, and that has had devastating effects on the public consciousness and the media itself.
As I wrote yesterday, here are some easy-to-understand ways in which Dems could address various tactics:
Trump wants you to believe that crimes committed out in the open can't possibly be crimes. He's wrong. Crimes out in the open are still crimes. He is committing impeachable offenses and hoping you'll fall for his tactic. Don't.
Republicans have for many decades employed the strategy of accusing Democrats of the very thing they are doing, so as to muddy the water and inspire false equivalencies (something the media loves to promote). The American people need to recognize this tactic for what it is and not fall for it.
Republicans are employing the Gish gallop, which is defined as "a technique used during debating that focuses on overwhelming an opponent with as many arguments as possible, without regard for accuracy or strength of the arguments." In other words, they're trying to drown their opponents in so much bullshit that one doesn't even know where to begin in responding. Well, we're not going to play that game. When they are ready to join the rest of us in the land of fact-based reality, then and only then can we have an honest discussion. In the meantime, don't fall for their tactic.
These tactics will continue to work unless Democrats repeatedly shine a light on the tactics themselves.
sprinkleeninow
(20,249 posts)compels them to have such a knack for spewing such bull scheisse. It may be that they gave place to The Evil One and are doing its [his] bidding.
sprinkleeninow
(20,249 posts)I appreciate how you express all....