Does a high school REALLY need a $60,000,000 football stadium?

[derby378]

A little bit of background, and I beg the moderators' indulgence because I want this thread to be about education and communities more than about sports (re: Forum purpose). I remember the Texas town of Allen from back in the 80s when it was a fraction of its current size. You never heard that much about it on the local news; it sat just north of Plano in southern Collin County and minded its own business for a long time. I used to have a couple of friends up there who were brother and sister; it was neat to look up at the night sky with them and see the stars in the clear night.

However, with suburban sprawl in northern Texas being what it is, the growth that took place in Plano began to spill over into Allen, and the entire city began to expand and develop. The most recent evidence of this is Allen High School's new football stadium. Even though my alma mater is North Garland High School, I wouldn't mind catching a game of the Allen Eagles at the new stadium sometime. But a price tag of $60 million? How much of that $60 million could have been invested in academics to produce more physicists, more doctors, more artists, more innovators in business and technology?

Having said that, read on:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-high-school-football-team-plays-game-60/story?id=17134822#.UELA9dZmR9t

The stadium, which was built as part of a voter-approved $119 million bond package that passed in 2009, boasts some major league amenities, including artificial turf, a multi-level press box, a weight room, a wrestling room and seats for 18,000 people.

Including the standing room crowd, there were 21,000 people at the game Friday night.

While students and their parents seem to be thrilled with it, some Texans are less impressed.

"It's lamentable that people want to do this with their own money and the money of their community," said Tom Palaima, a professor at the University of Texas, Austin, and a former representative of the Coalition on Intercollegiate Athletics, a faculty organization that monitors sports expenditures on college campuses.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

1. No.

The moment the bond passed armies of psychologists should have descended on the town.

[loli phabay]

2. if the people voted for it and took up the bonds then its really none of my business as i dont live

there.

[smackd]

70. agree n/m

[tjwash]

3. I wonder how much they pay the teachers there.

I also wonder how crowded the classrooms are.

[Firesidechat]

24. Not enuogh pay for teachers you can be sure

We value sports and vicarious thrills in this country more than foundational pillars like education.

We have to face the cold hard truth that many of our citizens are intellectual equals of Ricky Bobby in Talladega Nights.

Actually, Ricky Bobby has one up on them probably.

[HiPointDem]

56. It's an upscale area. Median family income 2000 = $82K

Teachers:

Starting Salary: $42,890
Average Salary: $48,638
Salary Raise Last Year: 0.8%
Salary Raise Last 10 Years: 26.8%

http://www.teacherportal.com/district/texas/Allen-Isd

[Drale]

4. I usually don't have a problem with schools

spending a little extra for nice football seating because my school used the field for assemblies and such and bleachers suck, but 60 million dollars is just ridiculous.

[Bigmack]

5. Texas ranks...

....43rd in per-pupil expenditure in its schools, 49th in verbal SATs, 46th in math SATs, 36th in high school graduation....

[Terra Alta]

9. And yet they keep electing idiots like Dumbya and Governor Goodhair to lead their state

Maybe Texas deserves what they get, but their children sure deserve better.

[Confusious]

36. 1st in expendatures for football! WooHooo!

[WI_DEM]

6. It's insane but in Texas Football is king.

[Terra Alta]

7. spending $60 million on a high school sports stadium

When there are countless children in Texas wondering where their next meal is coming from, and many end up going to bed hungry. Talk about fucked up priorities.

[loli phabay]

10. yup i agree but if thats what they want to spend their money on then i cant argue

might think they are nuts but as someone said in texas football is king.

[Panasonic]

12. Football should NOT be king.

Should be dead last in terms of Texas.

Education and understanding of why GOP continues to fuck them up in the ass should be #1 priority and Texas needs to remove all their remaining fascists out of the government and replaced with true progressive Democrats who will lead the way to what is needed for Texas.

Football is not king, and I don't give a shit about football.

60 million is a waste of money. What did they do with that money - line the whole fucking thing in 24k gold?

[loli phabay]

14. point is you dont care about football, obviously the people who bought bonds think differently

I may not agree with them spending this money but if they wanted it and paid for it then why should they care what i across the country think. I sure as hell am not going to tell them that they cant raise money and spend it how they like.

[Panasonic]

18. Dude, 60 fucking million dollars for a stupid stadium for a high school?

Hell, my local high school has a practice football field, and that's it.

The actual games are played in a maybe $250,000 stadium that the public school owns. Holds maybe 5-10k fans.

Here's a satellite view of All City Field - home of the Denver Public Schools football games.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&safe=off&q=1450+S.+Franklin+St.+denver+co&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x876c7e5b52c7ac8b:0x38af99caea0cd0db,1450+S+Franklin+St,+Denver,+CO+80210&gl=us&ei=1MxCUK3GKarj0QHTlICgDA&ved=0CB8Q8gEwAA

As you can see. two football fields, a baseball field and a couple of tennis centers.

[loli phabay]

20. dude if the parents raised the money through bonds then it dosent matter what it cost

i might not agree with them but if they raised it to build it then they can do what they want.

[Bigmack]

21. Of course they can. They can also advertise to the world that they have fucked priorities. nt

[former-republican]

25. Don't bonds have to be paid back?

[loli phabay]

28. yup i think so, but even though i think its nuts the voters didnt.

[former-republican]

33. So the posters saying so what it was their money?

How is 60 million going to be paid back when the bonds hit their maturity date?

Property taxes by the residents of the town?

[loli phabay]

35. probuably but thats what the residents voted for so i got no problem with it.

[former-republican]

37. How much you wanna bet residents will be crying about their new mill rate a few years down the road

stupid hurts sometimes

[loli phabay]

40. yup but you cant help stupid, just watch amused.

[sammytko]

61. They usually hold several rounds of open meetings to discuss the bonds

We just passed one for a new football field plus classrooms. It's put to a vote and it passed by a large margin. Taxpayers know how much their property taxes will increase.

[former-republican]

67. You would be surprised how many residents don't go to meetings

Also you don't have to be a property owner to vote only a resident of the town.
When new tennis courts were voted in my town more than half of the people that voted were not property owners.
They were renters.

Also when you say property owners know how much the mill rate will increase is not correct.
The feds have money allocated to districts , small towns etc...

When you receive your new mill rate there is a column what your mill rate in the town would be if the state didn't receive all the money it asked for from the feds. These monies will not always be available . Like it or not there will be cuts in the federal budget in the next few years. Mill rates will surprise many property owners that voted for silly things like 60 million dollar high school foot ball stadiums

[sammytko]

68. I know you don't have to be a property owner to vote on the bonds

And as for the meetings, the opportunity to be heard is there.

It's not a big secret.

[former-republican]

69. I know you don't

Last edited Sun Sep 2, 2012, 03:57 AM - Edit history (1)

You don't have to be a property owner to vote on any town budget meetings
Towns that have more renters than property owners . Property owners sometimes get shafted hard.

[Terra Alta]

15. don't get me wrong, I love football

but some things are more important than football. Making sure children are fed, clothed, have a roof over their head, and educated well should be their top priorities. I hope those who voted for the $60 million stadium can live with themselves.

[loli phabay]

16. yup im not into football and i dont get this, but if they raised the money then they get to spend it

[gopiscrap]

62. I totally agree

In fact I think they should eliminate all sports and send that money to raise teacher pay and a part of it to fund the arts to a greater extent!!!

[Incitatus]

8. I wonder where the money leads.

Contractors with friends that facilitated this?

[Tom Ripley]

26. +1,000,000 (THAT is always the case)

[cynatnite]

11. They think this is an investment in the students and their future...

This was said during NBC Nightly New's piece about it earlier tonight. It's tragic because Texas ranks so low in education nationwide.

Nope, the money didn't go to education...it went to a fucking sports stadium.

[derby378]

22. Even if you're good at sports, what do you do when you hang up your cleats?

Roger Staubach transformed himself from a Dallas Cowboys quarterback into a very successful businessman. Not every football player can do this - just look at the personal and financial mess Terrell Owens finds himself in nowadays.

Academics can guarantee you a life outside the gridiron. It may not be as glamorous as your football career, but you'll have a steady job and good wages to support yourself and your family.

[WillowTree]

50. Perhaps you missed the fact that the bond was for $119,000,000.

They put about half of that into the stadium and the rest into the rest of the school's needs.

[cynatnite]

54. Yes, I did miss that. Thank you. n/t

[Odin2005]

59. That reminds me of a scene from the movie "Friday Night Lights".

In the scene a caller on a radio show said they should de-fund academics to pay for school sports.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. No, but you are talking Texas

where football is a religion.

[Terra Alta]

17. and, apparently, educating children is just an afterthought.

If Texas keeps this up, they'll have more Dumbya Bushes and Rick Perrys and less Ann Richards and Molly Ivins. Education first, then athletics.

[tammywammy]

41. The bond also included a new performing arts center.

Allen has very good schools.

[snooper2]

47. 85% of graduates there go on to college

[Comrade_McKenzie]

23. Hell no. I find school sports programs troubling as is. nt

[Tom Ripley]

27. I pity my fellow progressives who live in that fucking hellhole of a place

[brewens]

29. A friend of mine said they have 600 kids in their band and it takes 18 buses

to haul them to games. He lives not too far from there.

[derby378]

32. For a high school?!?

I'm all for encouraging musical instruction for students, but you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. Wow.

[cloudbase]

30. The answer to the question

"How much of that $60 million could have been invested in academics to produce more physicists, more doctors, more artists, more innovators in business and technology?"

is none of it. Teachers are paid out of the maintenance and operations tax rate, while bonded indebtedness is paid from the interest and sinking tax rate. Bond money cannot be used to pay teachers or to cover administrative salaries and operating costs.

Bonds in Texas got a bit more expensive because the state fund that guaranteed each school district a AAA rating is now broke, so the school districts will have to pay market rates.

I live in a school district that has the bond money to build schools yet cannot because they can't afford to pay to staff them.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

31. I don't see the point to organized sports in high school

Intense physical activity, yes, like daily gym, for good health, and maybe mandatory intramural teams where everyone gets a chance to participate to learn the values of competition, but all the rituals, theatrics and sexual dance surrounding jocks, teams, cheerleaders, homecoming, proms, etc. to me should be pursued by those who like that outside of school on one's own time, like they do in Europe. To me, high school sports primarily service the sports and entertainment industries whereas schools should be dedicated to learning. If you want to become a professional athlete, join a sports club and learn after school like they do in Europe.

[Odin2005]

60. School team sports are a way of instilling obedience to authority into kids

[gopiscrap]

63. Yup I totally agree

many sports teams and fans blinly follow authority...it's scary and it's one reason I can't organized sports

[CK_John]

34. Not a very good long term venture. Tonight's news just had a story

about a young student who dropped dead at their first practice. Also schools are finally worrying about injuries from the increased size of young players.

We already have several rural area schools that have dropped football due to budget cuts and high cost of insurance. HS football is on the way out.

[gopiscrap]

64. Good

most football players I knew in HS were brainless asshole jocks

[Prometheus Bound]

71. Same experience I had.

One example stands out even to this day.

I was sitting in the stands in the gym with some of my track and basketball teammates watching the volleyball team practice. They were the best in the city and fun to watch. In walks the football team on the way from the practice field to the changing rooms: "Hey, let's watch the faggots play volleyball. Har Har," says one in a sort of low, hoarse caveman voice. The rest of the team howls in laughter and heads down to the showers. Everyone in the stands just looked around at each other and shook their heads. Happily, Volleyball and basketball games would see packed stands and the football team would get sparse crowds of friends of the players.

[demosincebirth]

38. I just knew it was in Texas!

[Historic NY]

39. Its freaking nuts...........

even the US government did pay that much for the prep school fields AT USMA

[liberal_at_heart]

42. All the other departments really suffer when one

department receives such a large portion of the money. My daughter is pretty upset with her school right now because they spend a lot of money on their athletics and almost nothing on art, like most schools across the country.

[tammywammy]

43. The bond that paid for this stadium, also paid for a performing arts center

http://www.allenisd.org/pac

[liberal_at_heart]

45. well I guess that is something

I was more referring to dedicating money to making sure the classes are available, not the physical structures themselves. Sometimes there is not enough money to even offer the class, so the entire class is cancelled and the kids have to wait until some future semester to take the class.

[tammywammy]

46. I don't think they're having that issue in Allen. n/t

[liberal_at_heart]

49. don't be so sure

We live in an affluent neighborhood with good schools and loads of local tax dollars, PTA fundraisers, and even local businesses chipping in. We even have a non profit fundraising company dedicated to nothing more than raising money to help fill the gaps when state funding falls short. My daughter had an art class she wanted to take but there was only one class available. She had already taken that class and they would not allow her to take again. Meanwhile, many of the sports fields including the football stadium, baseball fields, and tennis courts all get plenty of money to maintain them. And my daughter's personal favorite. We just got a digital billboard for announcements. I guess it was too hard to have someone replace the letters.

[snooper2]

44. Was hanging out with my buddy and his boys with my daughter tonight..

He said traffic was FUCKED in Allen tonight LOL...

Guess they didn't plan for 18K people coming down Main

[Fire Walk With Me]

48. That depends upon who would gain from it, money and power.

[liberal_at_heart]

51. +1

[patrice]

52. No.

[AverageJoe90]

53. This IS Texas, though.......what did one expect?

BTW, I grew up in Rowlett and there were negotiations for something far bigger than this some years ago.....the new Cowboys Stadium, in the middle of town, no less! . Of course, it fell through but I do wonder what could have been....get my drift?

[lastlib]

55. Well, OF COURSE they do!!

After all, we cain't be spindin' that kinda money on ejimicashun--that's the librul eleetist way. Next thing yaknow, them kids'll be bleevin' in EVILOOTION if we go spendin' money on books an' teacher pay an' stuff....






in case someone needs it:

[liberal_at_heart]

57. certainly can't expect them to give any money

to those evil teachers unions.

[Odin2005]

58. I knew this was going to be in Texas.

[Scootaloo]

65. They need some bread to go with that circus

[Odin2005]

66. I'm sure there are concession stands.