General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNancy, it's time
If this isn't enough to bring impeachment proceedings then we need a new Speaker. Full stop.
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)Attack the Speaker when that happens!
We need OPs that make sense not drama queen hair on fire ones.
pbmus
(12,422 posts)We need responses that reflect clear course, not just attacking
AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)The '20 election will happen.
HiloHatti
(79 posts)Last edited Fri Sep 20, 2019, 09:07 PM - Edit history (1)
And immediately lock them up or at the minimum, fine them.
AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)HiloHatti
(79 posts)Under this process, the procedure for holding a person in contempt involves only the chamber concerned. Following a contempt citation, the person cited is arrested by the Sergeant-at-Arms for the House or Senate, brought to the floor of the chamber, held to answer charges by the presiding officer, and then subjected to punishment as the chamber may dictate (usually imprisonment for punishment, imprisonment for coercion, or release from the contempt citation).
Concerned with the time-consuming nature of a contempt proceeding and the inability to extend punishment further than the session of the Congress concerned (under Supreme Court rulings), Congress created a statutory process in 1857. While Congress retains its "inherent contempt" authority and may exercise it at any time, this inherent contempt process was last used by the Senate in 1934,
Presidential pardons appear not to apply to a civil contempt procedure such as the above, since it is not an "offense against the United States" or against "the dignity of public authority."
triron
(22,007 posts)AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)As have the courts.....This again will be dragged through the courts for yrs. if it's tried.
HiloHatti
(79 posts)wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)You get witnesses first!
pbmus
(12,422 posts)How do you suggest we get him/her without impeachment?
OnDoutside
(19,962 posts)relevant committees will have to go to court to compel their appearance. There are plenty of these cases underway, it is just taking time to go through the courts and it may be that the Trump scum will get to delay (by way of appeals), well into 2020. This is NOT the Democrats fault.
pbmus
(12,422 posts)OnDoutside
(19,962 posts)pbmus
(12,422 posts)OnDoutside
(19,962 posts)threatening court action. If the Whistleblower releases any documents, without authority to do so, then they could go to jail. It's shit, but that's where it's currently at. Democrats need enforceable court wins, which I'm hoping we will start seeing in the next 8 weeks.
pbmus
(12,422 posts)OnDoutside
(19,962 posts)there.
As for the courts, it will take that at least.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)The process is exactly the same.
But they've already started impeachment anyway ...
pbmus
(12,422 posts)In my understanding of impeachment hearings...the house will have more power to subpoena witnesses...
OnDoutside
(19,962 posts)back to the courts.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)And an impeachment hearing doesn't give more power to subpoena witnesses. The House's subpoena power is the same regardless the proceeding. It is thought that courts might be more willing to expedite a request to enforce a subpoena in an impeachment inquiry, but that's not necessarily the case.
Here's a little "primer" I posted a few months ago that you might find helpful.
Let's define our impeachment terminology
Impeachment = a vote by a simple majority of the House of Representatives agreeing there are sufficient grounds to determine that a federal officer's actions warrant trial and removal from office for the commission of high crimes and misdemeanors. An impeachment does not remove the official from office. Only the Senate can remove and only after a trial and vote of 2/3 of the body.
Impeachment Inquiry = a process used to determine whether a federal officer should be impeached.
Impeachment Investigation = a part of the inquiry that gathers evidence to be used as part of the determination of whether a a federal officer should be impeached.
Impeachment Hearings = proceedings in which the committee conducting the impeachment inquiry takes testimony from witnesses. The witness can be fact witnesses, legal and constitutional experts, special interest representatives (civil rights groups, etc.), and others with information or advice relevant to the inquiry. Hearings can be conducted in public or in private.
Although the terms are often (and inaccurately) used interchangeably, impeachment, impeachment inquiries, impeachment investigations, and impeachment hearings are not synonymous. Hearings can be part of an investigation, but investigations do not require hearings. Investigations and hearings can be components of the inquiry but an inquiry can be conducted without them. In other words, investigations and hearings are specific subsets of an inquiry.
Impeachment is the actual vote that a federal officer's actions warrant trial and removal from office.
There is no such thing as "starting impeachment." At this point in time, Congress is considering whether to open an impeachment inquiry that will likely include an investigation and hearings and could lead to impeachment.
...
Impeachment inquiries can take different forms. For example, in the Clinton impeachment inquiry, the Judiciary Committee conducted no investigation, but merely accepted the Starr Report and its deliberations concerned only whether the information in the Starr Report was sufficient to justify impeachment. The Nixon impeachment inquiry was broader, however it, too, relied primarily on evidence and findings elicited in previous investigations and hearings.
At the conclusion of the inquiry, the committee prepares and votes on Articles of Impeachment. The approved Articles are then sent to the House floor for a vote. If the full House votes to approve one or more of the Articles, immediately upon and by operation of the vote, the officer is impeached.
It will then be up to the Senate to decide whether the official is removed from office.
...
For those who would like sources, I refer you to the U.S. Constitution; HR 581 (105th); H. Rept. 105-795 (105th); H.Res.803 (93rd);
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-HPREC-DESCHLERS-V3/html/GPO-HPREC-DESCHLERS-V3-5-5-2.htm
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-105hhrg52320/pdf/CHRG-105hhrg52320.pdf
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/30/us/donald-trump-impeachment.html
pbmus
(12,422 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)HiloHatti
(79 posts)The trial would be held on the Senate.
triron
(22,007 posts)DrToast
(6,414 posts)Some times you just have to do the right thing and let the chips fall where they may.
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)Man am I glad Pelosi is a Speaker.
pbmus
(12,422 posts)DrToast
(6,414 posts)Why are you so afraid to do the right thing?
Thank you, DrToast. I am so damn sick and tired of people excusing pelosi's inaction with "you want 4 more years of Trump?" I want 4 more years of a Democracy. I'll say this again and again and again...we didn't hold Bush and Cheney accountable and our Democracy was left broken and scarred by the war crimes, including torture, perpetrated by that administration. Obama said "let's look forward and not back" and what happened? We got this goddamn autocrat. At some point you have to stand up for what you believe and stop the chicken shit responses.
DrToast
(6,414 posts)If the plan is to ignore all his crimes and hope we beat him in the election, why on Earth would you think hed accept the results of an election if were basically telling him hes above the law?
DemocracyMouse
(2,275 posts)Response to DrToast (Reply #15)
AncientGeezer This message was self-deleted by its author.
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)evertonfc
(1,713 posts)The House will do nothing. Maybe release a statement with threats. Trump dosent fear the House. He has ice in his veins.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)If they haven't Nancy isn't going forward.
LexVegas
(6,068 posts)Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)I totally 100% trust Speaker Pelosi to make the right move at exactly the right time that will give the best potential for actual results.
After all this time, if people think she doesnt know what shes doing and how to do the best with whats available.. they havent been paying attention.
LexVegas
(6,068 posts)No experience in the real world?
choie
(4,111 posts)but at the end of the day, she's a politician and does what is expedient, not necessarily right.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)I dont believe that her calculating the best way to move on this president, and the best timing to do so is in any way either convenient or practical given all of the pressure on her to move and move now. Nor can improper or immoral applicable by doing so. Especially given the entire basis on calling for the impeachment is due to the actions of an incredibly improper and immoral creature.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)History will do the judging.
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)her refusal to move forward? If Trump isn't impeached, impeachment serves no purpose and needs to be removed from the Constitution.
coti
(4,612 posts)Glad we have folks like you and Pelosi around, keepin' that ol' powder dry for a day that will never come!
elocs
(22,582 posts)who laud her when she does what they want and when she doesn't they are ready to throw her under the bus.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)because that's what THEY want and she's a weak coward if she doesn't. But they would probably not be quite so eager to have her do this if she was trying to achieve an outcome they didn't want. Then she'd be an overbearing, power-hungry bitch.
DrToast
(6,414 posts)Luckily, even a dumb guy like me realizes what that means. Does she?
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)which will support that Trump engaged in an act of gross abuse.
The House needs that evidence. The Whistle-Blower is unlikely to reveal him or herself, but might
find a way to get evidence into the right hands. Have some patience. This is all new.
The House is still trying to get a look at the complaint. First things first.
Katayla believes the truth will come out. The House needs to have it in hand to proceed.
ancianita
(36,098 posts)grounds of illegally obtained evidence.
That won't happen. The whistleblower and House will both find the way forward.
This democracy is worth it.
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)truth emerges somehow that pressure can be exerted on the DNI to release the complaint and its evidence to the gang of eight. Running with half the truth or illegally obtained evidence will not be good for a potential case that might sink the president, one way or another.
Patience to see things done right is key.
ancianita
(36,098 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,356 posts)Just start with the taxpayer dollars going into golf courses and work your way back to asking Russia to get the missing emails.
There is a mountain of evidence already in the public record which supports impeachment on multiple grounds, including abuse of power, violation of the emoluments clause, obstruction of justice, and even treason.
elocs
(22,582 posts)Skittles
(153,169 posts)it's a bad joke now
coti
(4,612 posts)What, exactly, would it take??
Skittles
(153,169 posts)it would take new leadership
Response to The Hitman (Original post)
Post removed
Falcata
(156 posts)reads posts from anonymous posters on very obscure forum?
Catch2.2
(629 posts)to do the right thing!!!! Impeachment is long overdue! If they don't, maybe it's time for new leaders.
Moostache
(9,895 posts)Our Democratic Party is becoming a punchline, a joke of ineffective nothing....sure pass a ton of bills in the House and then what? NOTHING.... hold a bunch of committee meetings for "investigations" and then what? NOTHING....except for a thumb in the eye from scum like Lewandowski and no shows by anyone who feels emboldened by a Trump's lawyers' letter claiming privilege.
Fuck it all already. What the hell good is a majority or chair of a subcommittee if it produces exactly squat?
I am beyond discouraged, I am questioning why I should even care so much that it hurts my soul physically.
In all honesty, I fully expect to lose in 2020, to watch helplessly as Trump flaunts the law and his own crimes and in the end, we will have a smoking husk of a Democratic Republic and all is lost.
I wish a bolt of lightning would strike him dead, NOW! And if not, please strike me instead so I no longer have to bear witness to this shitshow reality.
Saint PeLSU
(24 posts)-.-
warmfeet
(3,321 posts)Don't pretend to be an interested party to the future of this country if you can't be bothered to support impeachment of the criminal currently occupying the white house.
Sometimes, one must make a stand - regardless of consequence, regardless of outcome.
It's time - to - make - a - stand.
Hit the man, right where he stands.
RainCaster
(10,884 posts)How much rope do you really need to pay out for him and his posse?
Every day we hear of a new scandal and any one of those would have sunk a previous president, Democrat or Republican. I won't waste your time trying to list them all. You know the drill. There will come a time when I will lose all respect for our party, because they have not stood up against this. Please don't let this happen DNC Leadership.
Yeah, I was a conservative decades ago, but the level of corruption, hypocrisy, and self-serving eventually got me to the point where I left the Dark Side. How soon before I leave the DNC because of their ineffectiveness? The bar is damn high, and it may be a long way off, but I never thought I would have to consider what that could be.
I may be yelling into an empty canyon, (echo echo echo), but I'm hoping that there is some intelligence out there in DNC-land that knows my desires and plans for a huge change in 2020.
* Death penalty for treason, and for those who aid & abet.
* Federal disbarment for those who enable treason (an alternative to the death penalty- if those MF's end up begging on street corners I'm OK with that)
* Total reset of everything that has occurred under DFT's rule (I'm still waiting for a correction on habeas corpus that Baby Bush gave us, my biggest disappointment with Barack)
* Impeachment of those DFT appointed to all courts
* Rejoin the climate accord
* Rebuild the State Department by offering all former employees their jobs back, along with an apology
* Repair our relationship with all the countries he has offended (these are legion)
* Make women's rights a permanent issue
* We are a nation of immigrants- let that be known by our actions
* We fucked over the natives of this land. Biden has a great plan to fix this, which is a good start.
Mazeltov Cocktail
(569 posts)I believe in her wisdom and her grasp of the situation.
That said, its time!
The only rock bottom that exists for Trump is the one Nancy creates. Trump proves on a daily basis there is no depth to which he will not crawl.
Its time to impeach!!!
Saint PeLSU
(24 posts)It's like a football needing to score to win the game now. It's first down we're in scoring position but we kneel to run out the clock hoping to win the superbowl next year.
Enoki33
(1,587 posts)and have no good reason to doubt her political savvy.
Demonaut
(8,919 posts)myohmy2
(3,163 posts)...if trump possibly tried to barter assets of the United States to bribe a foreign power to meddle in our election on his behalf by digging up dirt on his political opposition isn't impeachable, then what the hell is impeachable?
...it's time to use our dry powder, it's time to defend our frayed Constitution, it's time to stand up for America...
...time to get serious and time to impeach...
Sunsky
(1,737 posts)It's passed time. She's trying to hold onto power with a losing strategy. The blue wave is drying up because we have squandered our political capital, by being too cautious. People are not being incentivized to vote Democratic, because one of the key motivating factor (holding Trump accountable) has been taken off the table, leaving the Republicans looking strong but wrong and the Dems right but slight.
We have to show strength in order to motivate people to vote for us. Some will say, what's the use if nothing gets done. I hear this a lot. Excuses won't help us win elections. We need our leaders to wake up, this is why we've put them there.
We are playing into Trump and the Republican's hands.
I was a Pelosi fan but not anymore. I wish we had chosen someone else, for such a time as this.