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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHere's how you fight the "Socialism" bullshit
Just point out that to Retrumplicans (and I can't stress enough that we should use the term Retrumplican...see the rights use of Democrat Party for reference)
But I digress.
Point out that to Retrumplicans, the following is "socialism"
- The Interstate Highway System
- Rural Electricity Grid
- The Hoover Dam
- Social Security
- Medicare
- Aviation Travel
- The United States military
- Interstate Commerce
- National Parks
- Safe Drinking Water
- VA and FHA loans
- Tornado Warning Systems
- The National Weather Service
The list goes on.
Just about everything we have done on a national or community level would be described as "socialism" by the Retrumplicans... even our "socialist" Constitution.
Don't let them define "socialism" by their standards.
Poiuyt
(18,130 posts)Namely government owning the means of production and distribution. NOBODY is calling for that. We all want to work within the framework of capitalism--just keep it under control and let the government help when it's in America's best interest to do so (as you described above).
dawg day
(7,947 posts)"things I don't like".
"Things I like" might well include "my dad's social security, the highways I drive on, unemployment, Pell grants"... but they can't be socialism! I like them!
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)They are for all the things listed in the OP. But they honestly say that industry should eventually be controlled by the state. Or worker collectives which amounts to the same thing because only government could take them from their current owners and give them to the workers.
I dont think they are bad people. Just extremely wrong.
But to your point. The socialist label wont stick with most democratic candidates. They are almost all self proclaimed capitalist.
TwilightZone
(25,479 posts)The politicians referring to themselves as socialists aren't, certainly not in the European sense. Europeans scoff at Bernie being referred to as a socialist.
Regulated capitalism, which is what all of our candidates support, isn't socialism.
"NOBODY is calling for that. "
Actually, the DSA is. They want to blow up capitalism and replace it with real socialism. They debated endorsing Sanders because some of them weren't sure that he could be used to pursue that agenda, because he's not socialist enough for their purposes.
https://www.dsausa.org/bernie-2020-dsa-endorsement-debate-process/
azureblue
(2,150 posts)government "of the people, for the people, by the people". Sounds socialistic to me..
Instead of ruling "by the rich, for the rich."
Which is what we have now..
former9thward
(32,077 posts)He is part of the Democratic Socialists. He is number 2 in most national polls.
SidneyR
(84 posts)That's not a complete definition of socialism. Most people just don't seem to understand that it goes deeper than just "government ownership." A more accurate definition of socialism includes the crucial class component: it means the working class as a whole controls the government. It's a mirror image of what exist now, where the "ruling class" controls the government. Just turning over ownership to a capitalist-controlled government is not socialism.
UpInArms
(51,284 posts)From this article
https://www.salon.com/2019/08/11/keep-calling-him-moscowmitch-mcconnell-is-finally-running-scared/
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)up we wouldn't have to defend anything. His programs could have been described without the social Democratic or Democratic Socialism meme.
ret5hd
(20,518 posts)The right has been decrying every left idea as "communism" for decades.
Social Security
Medicare
Medicaid
Civil Rights
Anti-Trust Legislation
Labor Relations Act
Railway Labor Act
etc etc etc
Captain Zero
(6,823 posts)which comes first the chicken or the egg? Once he was attacked as a socialist he could choose to shuffle off to the side or defend it. He has always chosen to defend it, as we should as it has been outlined here. This is one good way.
TwilightZone
(25,479 posts)Sanders, in reference to his first Senate run:
"Do they think Im afraid of the word? Im not afraid of the word," he said in an interview with The Nation published in July. "When I ran for the Senate the first time, I ran against the wealthiest guy in the state of Vermont. He spent a lot on advertising very ugly stuff. He kept attacking me as a liberal. He didnt use the word socialist at all, because everybody in the state knows that I am that."
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/aug/26/bernie-sanders-socialist-or-democratic-socialist/
Horizens
(637 posts)When you're explaining, you're defending. When you're defending, you're losing.
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)in the service of fulfilling the constitutional mandate to "provide for the general welfare"?
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)They are examples of good governance. Framed like that a large majority of Americans are for them.
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)Tax Cuts for the Rich
Bank Bailouts
Subsidized Oil ,Gas and Coal
Tax Cuts for the Corps
Endless War for endless MIC
and make the worker pay for it
taxes are for the little people
grumpyduck
(6,255 posts)if socialism is about production and distribution being owned by the government, the list above is pretty much pointing to what's going on right now: the government easing its way into controlling production and distribution.
MiniMe
(21,718 posts)secondwind
(16,903 posts)Public schools
Airports
Post Office
Public transportation
Food stamps
Buses, public transportation
Sewage disposal
Etc.
Trueblue Texan
(2,440 posts)Postal Service is self-supporting from proceeds of services and goods. Have been for decades.
dflprincess
(28,082 posts)"It is not Socialism to suggest that Americans may benefit from the same kinds of programs other western Democracies have had for decades."
HotRod Deluxe
(86 posts)Ask a retrumplican, if your house catches on fire, do you call a contractor to come down and give you an estimate on putting it out?
Sucha NastyWoman
(2,754 posts)The use of federal lands for grazing cattle on. Although they technically pay a fee/rent it is a very small, token payment, far cheaper than rent for privately owned land.
calimary
(81,466 posts)A Day in the Life of Joe Republican
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2012/05/21/1093478/-A-Day-in-the-Life-of-Joe-Republican
ooky
(8,929 posts)boogeyman image they are afraid will bury them.
Locrian
(4,522 posts)has been brainwashed to think they are the cowboy that accomplished everything on their own.
So "socialism" makes them weak and like those "foreign" countries - like a frenchman for goddsakes!!
Meanwhile they're too weak to argue for their fair share of the wealth and let the rich take it from them while they blindly talk about responsibility and being "left alone" - bootstraps and responsibility and all that
Social Security is a good example: they have already PAID into it - and it's supposed to be THEIR money. But they'll whine about it being a ponzie scheme and that it's a terrible burden - letting it get cut, reduced, etc and not fighting for what is rightfully theirs ie not a "handout".
Alpeduez21
(1,755 posts)about cutting Social security cutting my social security tax is never mentioned
Locrian
(4,522 posts)They see it as a handout
When in reality it's THEIR money, specifically itemized and paid in over time.
And for some reason they want to just lay down and let them take it.
And you're right, they never mention either giving back or reducing FICA
Crazy... they really are the example of the weaker monkeys giving up their bananas to the "stronger" monkeys.
JHB
(37,161 posts)Go right to the heart of the matter:
"You guys call everything you don't like 'socialism'.
You guys go on and on about 'European socialism' like you're talking about Warsaw Pact police states, and in the next breath you'll talk about us being the "leader of the free world", and it's the same damn countries!
Your definition of 'socialism' is so wildly over the top it covers this country during the entire freaking Cold War."
struggle4progress
(118,338 posts)Yavin4
(35,445 posts)They're evidence of Social Democracy at work. FDR adopted Social Democratic reforms to Capitalism which created the huge American middle class that we saw in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Gothmog
(145,554 posts)Link to tweet
-- FOR EXAMPLE: Take MEDICARE FOR ALL. When asked about supporting Medicare for All, and hearing it described as guaranteed health care coverage regardless of income, and every Americans health insurance would come from a single government-run plan, 41% favor it, 55% oppose and 4% are unsure. When Republicans start describing it as causing doctor shortages, longer wait times for urgent care and delays in access to the latest drugs for cancer and other serious diseases, the numbers move to 34% favor and 60% oppose.
-- THE GREEN NEW DEAL is actually above water when described as a plan that would work to address climate change and income inequality, and transition the United States from an economy built on fossil fuels to one driven by clean energy. 48% favor, 46% oppose and 7% are unsure.
IT SINKS when Republicans start describing it as potentially costing 93 trillion dollars and hiking energy bills by $3,000. It goes then to 32% support and 61% oppose. Polling memo Poll deck
Gothmog
(145,554 posts)Link to tweet
You add up things like packing the Supreme Court, getting rid of the electoral college, the Green New Deal and Medicare for none and you have a prescription of turning America into something it never has been and never should be, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said recently. So we intend to be on the offense in running our races."
Were going into the war with some socialists, Trump told a fundraiser in April.
This could be the defining debate of the 2020 election. Trump is so happy with that. Sanders is fine with that. The rest of the candidates arent so sure. But given the way this debate is shaping up, they may have no choice but to pick a side.
kairos12
(12,872 posts)Privatize profits and pass debt and default to the public.
HardLineDem
(26 posts)The correct term is "the Trump Cult". There is no longer a Republican Party.
mathematic
(1,439 posts)To summarize:
Liberal Democrat:
Believes public works and public welfare are a responsible and just way to run a capitalist economy.
Democratic Socialist:
Believes public works and public welfare are an effective tactic to eventually abolish capitalism in favor of social ownership.
Revolutionary Socialist:
Believes in voting for Trump et al in order to hasten a collapse in which a radical socialist government can take over and abolish capitalism.
It gets confusing because actual socialists and right wingers are both in favor of muddying the waters around these definitions in order to recruit more people into the socialist movement or defeat liberal democrats, respectively.
It stays confusing because liberal democrats and democratic socialists often share immediate policy goals, at least when contrasted with right wingers, despite having opposing long term goals.
It doesn't help that lots of democratic socialists like to talk about "revolution" too, even when they advocate for a gradualist, non-revolutionary approach. I guess they just like the sound of the rhetoric. You should take these people seriously but not literally, as the old expression goes.
Ginger42
(59 posts)Husbands coworker is a staunch Republican. Shes also on a huge list of government programs food assistance, housing, heating, healthcare. The father of one of her kids is dead so she gets social security for him. And shes always going on and on about freeloaders* getting socialism* from the government. In her mind shes not one of the freeloaders because she deserves what she gets from these programs but other people* dont. Why should I pay for stuff for other people? It never occurs to her that other people are paying for stuff for her.
There was a ballot measure to increase property taxes a while back to repair our crumbling high school. She told Husband he had to vote for it because her kids needed a better school. Husband saw his chance. Thats socialism. I dont have kids in that school. Why should I pay for stuff for your kids?
She was furious. Didnt have a good answer but just sputtered a bit and stomped off and wouldnt talk to him the rest of the day.
Husband: If I had known it was that easy to get her to stop talking to me, I would have done that ages ago.
We supported the ballot measure, but he keeps telling her we didnt because then she gets mad again and wont talk to him. So why would we want to help other people anyway? Whats wrong with us? 1. The school was literally falling down with the gym off limits because it had caved in, and 2. A stupid, uneducated population isnt good for anyone. It just breeds more Republicans.
*freeloaders = people who get the same stuff she gets but arent her
*socialism = stuff that other people get
*other people = black and brown people. Mostly brown because were on the rez.
Democat13
(4 posts)Wow! The woman whom you describe sounds like the vast majority of people who live in my area. They complain about the people who might be getting some type of help from the government, while they ignore the fact that they themselves are getting some type of help from the government. If they vote at all, they vote Republican. It is impossible to point out to them that they are voting against themselves. They look down upon anyone who is "poor" because they buy into the Republican lie that people "choose" to be poor. They consider themselves to be "middle class" while they are barely surviving -- usually while working at two or three jobs!
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)Where is Politico coming up with these numbers? Politico carries no weight with me.
Joe941
(2,848 posts)Capitalism is the real enemy.
Pachamama
(16,887 posts)I never get a correct answer.... I also ask them to define the difference between socialism and communism....again - never a correct answer....
Interestingly enough - most Democrats I ask, know the differences most of the time and can define what socialism is.
Then I tell them which countries are "Socialist" vs "Communist"....
WillowTree
(5,325 posts)Those are not examples of socialism. They are earned benefits that workers pay into all their working years and can only collect if they have paid in.
I hate it when people suggest those are socialistic programs.