If Epstein didn't have a dead man switch then the death is fake

[uponit7771]

If Epstein didn't have a dead man document switch then the death is fake.

No one in their right mind would not have a way of getting the horrible evidence out to the public upon murder in dealing with all these crooked bastards he was dealing with.

he could have set up hundreds or even thousands of them
world wide so no one could find them all.

this needs to be investigated and their damn well needs to be some DNA confirmed DNA not just from blood but from muscle or heart tissue.

Added

Barr's department of Justice should not be trusted, there's nothing related to bar that is on the up-and-up nothing absolutely nothing

[Dr Hobbitstein]

1. And they say conservatives own the market on conspiracy theories. nt

[uponit7771]

23. Conservatives on the market on gullibility; people trusting when it's obviou they should not

[Dr Hobbitstein]

31. Nah, that's not true either.

One just has to take a cursory glance through GD at all the random unverified Twitter posts to see that.

[harumph]

30. Yes - but...

I know of relations that successfully faked their death back in the 40's - left the country for Italy and then
came back 3 years later. Know it b/c the obit was
printed and they actually came back and assumed another identity. Everyone in the community knew it to.
So sometimes non-normal shit does take place. Not saying that I believe that he faked it or that he
was murdered - only that it is naive to assume a fairly large number of people involved in a crime
can't keep silent for a long time. They can and do.

[Mike 03]

2. Don't forget about his safe.

I have a feeling the contents of his safe was his dead man switch, so to speak. Losing control of that was probably a huge blow to Epstein.

[Kablooie]

9. Could be.

Bit now with Barr in control of the justice Dept the contents will conveniently disappear.

[uponit7771]

25. Yep, I'm just hoping that wasn't the only one Epstein knew what was what

[RockCreek]

3. DNA evidence is only as good as the records you match it with n/t

[jberryhill]

4. Nonsense

While I’m sure it would be fascinating to know what you are on about with the DNA thing, the obvious fact is that this is a man who has led a life of enormous comfort and privilege, and who has been suddenly confined to a prison cell. The apparent prospect was that he was never going to regain his comfort and power, and would spend the rest of his life in a cell.

That some people find it immediately discountable that he killed himself is the strange thing here. “Suicide watch” simply means they check on the prisoner more frequently, and we really don’t know if he was still on it after the incident of weeks ago. I’m sure he would have been manipulative enough to perhaps lead a counselor to believe he was no longer a risk, so that he could get off of it.

This is the most common fate of captured child molesters, but is immediately discounted by most here.

[Merlot]

10. Suicide watch is more that "checking on the prisoner more frequently"

it includes 24 hour cameras.

I find suicide to be unlikely because like most rich, powerful, and well connected men, he would assume he would get out. Am not saying suicide is not possible, just saying that at this stage I'm not 100% convinced. To many people would want him dead.

[Drahthaardogs]

42. Don't they also take everything out of the cell you can hang yourself with?

Like you wear paper clothes

[Eliot Rosewater]

53. He was murdered and it makes me so sad to see that we still havent learned that

we are discussing this as if it was a suicide.

sigh

reminds me when people attacked me for calling rump a traitor ON THIS BOARD

[Caliman73]

60. "Suicide watch" means many things.

It varies depending on the policies of the facility and the severity of intent by the individual under the watch. It could be anything from what jberryhill said, "Checking on the person more frequently" to bedside, arm's distance sitters 24 hours a day. We don't know what level of watch Epstein was under if any. Suicide watch is also not a forever thing, you can be on watch because of an attempt or serious and repeated threats but then be removed because the situation stabilizes.

I personally experienced an almost successful suicide attempt by a person who was under watch. The person was under visual supervision by a staff member at a rehab facility. I was doing visits and came in as the person was agitated and escalating. The person ran to a window, just having missed being tackled by the staff and proceeded to break it and attempt to run their arm across the glass. I was able to grab the person and pull them away and then with the help of the other staff, we restrained the person and put pressure on the wounds until paramedics arrived.

A clinical director of mine who ironically and sadly killed himself, told us a story about a client who was in a jail infirmary with a bedside sitter. The sitter became distracted somehow and the client got up an ran as fast as he could diving headfirst into the bars on a security door, crushing his own skull.

The point of the stories are, as the clinical director said, "If you are determined to kill yourself, you will find a way".

I am not saying that there isn't anything suspicious here, but it seems that people are just diving full on into conspiracy without waiting.

[Nevermypresident]

61. This.

Also, yes, too many people would want him dead...powerful, wealthy, connected people.

[LeftInTX]

14. I totally agree it's suicide. But I feel like Epstein may have bribed a guard to look the other way

[jberryhill]

28. And how would that be arranged?

You think the guards responsible for Epstein won’t be receiving some scrutiny? He’ll just buy a Ferrari and no one will notice?

[LeftInTX]

37. Money wired....I dunno

Link to tweet

Someone noted that Epstein was wearing an orange jumpsuit which means he was not on suicide watch. The NY Post showed pics of Epstein on a stretcher.

[harumph]

47. Are you being deliberately obtuse? I mean seriously.

I don't know what kind of law you practice - but have you every had any dealings with crime families?
Do you live in Mayberry Jberry?

[jberryhill]

75. Do you think he got lucky with the first guard he picked?

Or do you think maybe he had to ask a couple before he got lucky?

Since you know so much more about the subject, perhaps you can explain it to me.

What happens if the first guard he asks says no and reports the attempted bribery? Kind of a risk there, no? Or is it taken as given that they are all equally corrupt?

The payoff, of course, has to be coordinated with people on the outside, who are unconcerned with getting caught.

[uponit7771]

22. There is no rational reason to trust anything related to bars doj

[jberryhill]

29. ...which indicted Epstein in the first place

Oh, okay, so one must reflexively disbelieve anything the DoJ says? Got it. So Epstein must have been innocent, since it was the DoJ which indicted him and PUT HIM in that jail cell.

[uponit7771]

33. So? They needed to get closer to Epstein to keep him from talking. I don't trust Bill Barr

[jberryhill]

65. Oh, so the whole arrest and indictment was a set up

So that they could very publicly take him into custody and have him die under intense public scrutiny instead of just killing him some other way.

The idea was to “keep things under wraps” by increasing public attention to the activities in which he was engaged, and THEN kill him.

Geniuses.

[uponit7771]

68. Maybe, I don't trust Bill Barr ..

[jberryhill]

79. Who told you Epstein was dead?

Why do you accept the “official story” that he’s dead? Where did that information come from?

Same place.

But you believe that part, right?

[triron]

52. So they could 'take care' of him (like the mafia).

[uponit7771]

69. +1, I'm blown away that Bill Barr's DOJ is given ANY benefit of the doubt on anything

[smirkymonkey]

72. So am I. I don't know what really happened to Epstein. Looks to me like a suicide, but

with this gang in the Trump administration, anything is possible these days. Nothing is too far fetched.

[uponit7771]

73. +1, the presidents best friend was a pedophile child trafficker should be the head line for 100 yrs

... but it's not because the Trump admin is so damn crooked and evil on so many other levels.

[Beartracks]

85. Trump in 3, 2, 1: "I never met the guy. I'm told he was a nobody."

[Gidney N Cloyd]

43. Still, most captured child molesters don't have a long list of powerful co-molesters to flip on.

A list which no doubt goes beyond what we've heard so far.

[jberryhill]

48. "No doubt"

The best faith does not doubt.

So, why does Ghislane Maxwell not have this list?

I’d love to hear why the quite alive co-conspirator of Epstein does not have this knowledge.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

62. Maybe she does have all or part of it but if she hasn't been indicted why would she flip on anyone?

[harumph]

45. This isn't your run-of-the-mill predator - he had serious connections.

Obviously no one can say what happened at this juncture - and maybe never. I believe the cell was under CCD
surveillance - and it needs to be released. Due diligence demands the incident be investigated thoroughly instead of just
writing it off as another "molester suicide" in jail. Not that you're implying that.
He may have killed himself according to his own volition. He may have
killed himself under threat. Does he have children? A quick search turned up nothing. However, he may of the record as he
was apparently keen on spreading his "seed." If so, might family have been threatened? Are either of his parents Pauline and Seymour or his brother still living?

And although some have stated that he was "taken off suicide watch." Such an action - irrespective of a any story he might have told
a counselor - would be HIGHLY inappropriate in his case. In fact, it would be absurd to take him off (if that happened) - I have not
seen an official statement that the jail took him off.

[rzemanfl]

5. Bookmarking. n/t

[malaise]

6. Let me put it this way

This is big time fishy

[uponit7771]

21. +1, William Barr doj makes it fishy even if it was pictures and videos

[demmiblue]

7. ...

[JaneQPublic]

8. Still alive but getting a new face?

Someone on Twitter offered this theory.

Link to tweet

?s=19

[2naSalit]

12. ++++++!

[jberryhill]

13. The sky is the limit

Back in the day, people used to post to DU about how no actual airplanes were involved in 9/11.

Anything goes!

[Codeine]

16. I heard Bill Clinton

strangled Epstein to death with his dick.

[Ghost Dog]

17. That event was an obvious inside job.

N/t

[Codeine]

26. 9-11 conspiracy posts

are not allowed outside the Creative Speculation folder.

[Ghost Dog]

27. Yes sir/madam. N/t

[uponit7771]

34. That's almost as strange as people intimating anything related to Bill Barr is trustworthy

[Kingofalldems]

39. Got a link on that?

[jberryhill]

44. Yes, several.

Good to see you’re back from posting El Paso “fake victim” updates.

Try this one:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x92790

Axiomatic Proof that No Planes were used in the 9/11 attacks

[jberryhill]

46. I'll post them as I go...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x73867

The no-plane theory for 9/11-- why it may not be as crazy as you think


https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x134998

Whatever hit the South Tower was definitely NOT a commercial aircraft!

How many would you like?

[Kingofalldems]

49. One TS'ed another can't find

as they haven't posted here since at least 2011.

Really disingenuous to compare the 2 events (911 and Epstein killing himself in Trump's custody), IMO. Don't know why you would do that.

[harumph]

51. No shit - he is trying hard - he gets points for that I guess.

[Kingofalldems]

54. It's hard work.

[jberryhill]

63. So what if he was tombstoned?

He wasn’t the only one, and the only difference between a batshit spouting troll who has been tombstoned, and one who hasn’t been tombstoned yet, is time and the weight of opinion at DU.

But, sure, you’ve been here since 2004 and have no recollection at all of the batshit stuff people used to post about 9/11. Riiiiiigghhht.

Epstein is walking around with a new face. Yeah, let’s go with that.

[harumph]

50. Yes - this is just like 911 "without planes!!!!" conspiracy

Exactly the same.

[jberryhill]

59. Sure! He's walking around with a new face!

Whisked from his cell to a waiting team of plastic surgeons, he got a makeover to look like Leonardo DiCaprio and is walking around lower Manhattan looking for a diner to get a cup of coffee right now.

Yeah, that’s nothing like no 9/11 no planes theories. It’s not even backed up by a grainy YouTube Video Of Truth.

Wait till he starts popping up like Elvis.

People are going to be picking him out of photographs from Cuba.

[cwydro]

66. Lol! DU is hilarious when it gets on these conspiracy bents.

I need to make some popcorn.

[NYC Liberal]

71. Don't forget that DU also thought Bush had a secret earthquake machine

that caused the tsunamis in the Indian Ocean...

[Codeine]

74. Oh goodness, those were the days.

Mind control satellites and HAARP.

[uponit7771]

18. Possibly, that bastard was crooked

[demmiblue]

19. Jesus H. Christ on a trailer hitch.

[USALiberal]

11. Belongs in creative speculation forum! nt

[uponit7771]

20. Barr's department of Justice should not be trusted

[Codeine]

15. I think I'll check out for a few days

until the conspiracism and paranoia die down.

[uponit7771]

24. I don't trust William bars department of Justice

[harumph]

55. Dude, has anyone in your family faked his death by leaving his shoes

on a bridge in upstate NY - and then left for Italy - and then remarried - and then
come back under a new name? IF NOT, then save your patronizing.

Weird shit happens - and a jail murder (or coerced suicide) isn't even that
original.

[Codeine]

57. . . .

[Nevermypresident]

64. +1

[cwydro]

67. Cool story, bro.

[uponit7771]

77. +1, Most on DU don't give Barr's doj any benefit of the doubt.

[jberryhill]

80. But you take Barr's DoJ at their word that Epstein is dead, right?

Is there a guide to when to believe them and when not to?

[uponit7771]

81. Nope, ... ANY ... means ... ANY benefit of the doubt not one iota. I don't trust Barr

[jberryhill]

84. So he's not dead?

So, basically, you have surrendered control of your opinions to the DoJ, by reflexively taking the opposite view of any information tainted by association with the DoJ, thus sparing you the burden of forming your own opinions?

[H2O Man]

32. Recommended.

[albacore]

35. I don't believe the switched body thing... and I'm not paranoid..... but....

I believe it's important to pass along every unfounded rumor... every scurrilous, paranoid delusion, every crackpot theory... about this mis-administration.
It's a tactic that has worked pretty well for the trump people against HRC. Why not partake.
Besides, the trump people are already blaming HRC for killing Epstein...

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/08/trump-appointee-busted-for-using-her-personal-instagram-account-to-blame-hillary-clinton-for-epstein-suicide/?utm_source=push_notifications

[uponit7771]

38. Trump people are extremely gullible they are not a standard of sound thinking

[albacore]

41. Even Progressives... even DUers... are subject to the law of the Big Lie...nt

[harumph]

56. Could you elaborate on what the "Big Lie" is?

[albacore]

78. I didn't invent the term.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie

[uponit7771]

70. Of course, no one is perfect but democrats are more fact based ... by polling alone they are

[cbdo2007]

36. If he did we may not know about it for weeks/months.

[uponit7771]

40. +1,

[harumph]

58. You may never know.

Some people go overboard with conspiracy theories - but this can't be equated with 911 truthers and such as
a poster previously attempted. Jail cell murders happen - not frequently - but they do happen. Accordingly,
such speculation along with "coerced suicide" cannot be discounted. If someone tries too hard to poo-poo it - they
probably have an agenda, or, are just hopelessly naive. How many times have good hearted Democrats been
horrified to learn that some Republican operative is dumping ballots, leaving back doors to electronic voting machines
unsecured, etc. The naivete pisses me off. I think some of it comes from a place of fear - we don't want to believe the
lengths that rich powerful people will go to to protect themselves or their position. These people didn't get where they
are by taking time to smell the roses. Many of them are ruthless.

And another thing: I'm Goddamn tired of some long term posters pretending to be the "voice of reason." Could anyone have predicted 4 years ago that we would be in this shitstorm? If you actually read up on career criminals, they have secrets. It is common practice to
co-opt law enforcement. There are very bad people out there who are capable of doing seemingly outrageous things. So wake the fuck up.

[mucifer]

76. oy vey . nt

[pbmus]

82. Epstein is dead under the Cons administration...

[uponit7771]

83. +1