Twin Babies Were Found Dead Inside A Hot Car; Their Father Forgot About Them

[left-of-center2012]

Twin babies were found dead inside a hot car in New York on Friday after their father forgot they were in the back seat and went to work about two blocks away, police said. The father, 39-year-old Juan Rodriguez, from Rockland County, was charged with two counts of manslaughter and two counts of criminally negligent homicide, police said.

Rodriguez worked a full day before going back to his car in the Bronx and realizing the 11-month-old boy and girl had been inside the entire day, New York Police Sgt. Mary O'Donnell told BuzzFeed News. According to the New York Times, Rodriguez worked at James J. Peters VA Medical Center. The dad called 911 at 4:08 p.m., O’Donnell said, but the babies were pronounced dead at the scene.

Temperatures hovered around the mid 80s in the Bronx on Friday, according to the National Weather Service. However, temperatures inside a locked vehicle with raised windows in those conditions can quickly soar over 100 degrees, according to a study by San Francisco State University. The study found that when the ambient temperature is 84 degrees, the temperature inside a locked car can jump to 103 degrees within 10 minutes. After 30 minutes, the temperature inside the car can reach 116 degrees.

According to NoHeatstroke.org, an organization that tracks the deaths of children left inside hot cars, 23 have died in the US so far this year. Of the nearly 800 children who have died of heatstroke inside hot cars from 1998 to 2018, most of them — 54% — were forgotten in the car by their caregiver, it said.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/salvadorhernandez/twin-babies-dead-inside-hot-car-new-york

[Me.]

1. They Left Out Part Of The Story

There was also an older child in the car who the father dropped off first then went onto work.

[politicaljunkie41910]

70. Every place of employment should have a sign on every one of their door entrances that says,

"STOP!!!! Did you leave your child in your car today?" I'm sure printing companies would offer their services to print these signs at cost or a negligible amount to ensure that this doesn't have to happen to another child. While this wouldn't ensure something like this never happens again, it would bring awareness to every distracted working parent, which is almost every parent. Also, every employee who has children that they drop off could form a buddy system with another employee, and ask one another, "Did you drop your child off at daycare today?" or "Did you leave your child in your car today?"

No caring parent should be offended or turned off by such a sign on the door of their employment. I would think that they would welcome it.

[defacto7]

103. or pet for that matter.

[Cracklin Charlie]

106. Why can't there be a way to integrate a child seat to an alarm in the vehicle.

Every other damn thing can be integrated.

[mercuryblues]

108. there is

We have been looking at 2019 vehicles and many of them come with a rear seat alarm. Groups are lobbying for legislation to make this mandatory in new vehicles.

[Pachamama]

2. Heartbreaking

[Blues Heron]

3. cars should be required to have automatic vents and loud overheating alarms

we have the technology. Force them to make the cars safer.

[yardwork]

8. I agree. It's unconscionable that safety measures aren't in place.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

17. They exist, but here's why they aren't being used:

In 2000, Chris Edwards, Terry Mack and Edward Modlin began to work on just such a product after one of their colleagues, Kevin Shelton, accidentally left his 9-month-old son to die in the parking lot of NASA Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va. The inventors patented a device with weight sensors and a keychain alarm. Based on aerospace technology, it was easy to use; it was relatively cheap, and it worked.

Janette Fennell had high hopes for this product: The dramatic narrative behind it, she felt, and the fact that it came from NASA, created a likelihood of widespread publicity and public acceptance.

That was five years ago. The device still isn’t on the shelves. The inventors could not find a commercial partner willing to manufacture it. One big problem was liability. If you made it, you could face enormous lawsuits if it malfunctioned and a child died. But another big problem was psychological: Marketing studies suggested it wouldn’t sell well.

The problem is this simple: People think this could never happen to them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html?utm_term=.69871797b8f7

Read some of the other posts in this thread. "People think this could never happen to them."

Oh, yes, it could. It's because of the way the brain processes memory and is affected by stress. But people don't think it could happen to them.

[in2herbs]

19. Maybe they should lobby Congress for immunity just like the gun lobby did and received only this

is a valid exemption.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

20. Even so, people won't buy the alarms because they don't think they'd need them.

"I'd never do something like that!" says almost everybody who doesn't understand how the brain responds to stress and distraction. If you have a normal human brain you certainly could do something like that, but nobody thinks they would, so they don't think they need an alarm to keep them from doing something they wrongly believe they never could possibly do.

[Joe941]

26. Require it in cars - they already have sensors that enable/disable airbags.

[mr_lebowski]

31. Yup, don't give people a choice, make it required (nt)

[blueinredohio]

90. My 2018 Equinox has a reminder when you shut the car off to check the backseat.

[mercuryblues]

109. How do you like your equnox?

We looked at one last week and are leaning towards buying one.

[blueinredohio]

119. I really like it.

I had a Chevy blazer for 11 years and I loved that car. I went to a Chevy cruze because of driving so many miles to work. Now the boy has the cruze at kent state so I bought the equinox when I retired.

[mercuryblues]

126. HAHAHA

we will be trading in the Cruze. I hate it, with a passion. We will be making several long trips out of state in the coming months, my Father in law is very ill. We got back from a 10 hr (one way) drive last week and I told my hubby....I want a new vehicle. If we don't get one, expect to pay for me to fly back and forth. I felt like I had to be peeled out of it.

A Cruze is a good car for around town, but anything over 4 hrs? Forget about it.

[blueinredohio]

131. Yes the cruze was good on gas but

hard on the body after a long trip.

[LiberalFighter]

52. Could they make it part of the child car seat?

[defacto7]

104. That's a great idea. When the buckle is inserted it connects

to the auto ccontrols. If there's weight in the seat above the seat's tare weight it makes an alarm if someone leaves the car or tries to lock the door. Other sense devices may be better than weight but it's an idea.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. How this can happen - long article, won a Pulitzer, worth reading.

The charge in the courtroom was manslaughter, brought by the Commonwealth of Virginia. No significant facts were in dispute. Miles Harrison, 49, was an amiable person, a diligent businessman and a doting, conscientious father until the day last summer -- beset by problems at work, making call after call on his cellphone -- he forgot to drop his son, Chase, at day care. The toddler slowly sweltered to death, strapped into a car seat for nearly nine hours in an office parking lot in Herndon in the blistering heat of July.
....

Two decades ago, this was relatively rare. But in the early 1990s, car-safety experts declared that passenger-side front airbags could kill children, and they recommended that child seats be moved to the back of the car; then, for even more safety for the very young, that the baby seats be pivoted to face the rear. If few foresaw the tragic consequence of the lessened visibility of the child . . . well, who can blame them? What kind of person forgets a baby?

The wealthy do, it turns out. And the poor, and the middle class. Parents of all ages and ethnicities do it. Mothers are just as likely to do it as fathers. It happens to the chronically absent-minded and to the fanatically organized, to the college-educated and to the marginally literate. In the last 10 years, it has happened to a dentist. A postal clerk. A social worker. A police officer. An accountant. A soldier. A paralegal. An electrician. A Protestant clergyman. A rabbinical student. A nurse. A construction worker. An assistant principal. It happened to a mental health counselor, a college professor and a pizza chef. It happened to a pediatrician. It happened to a rocket scientist.

The rest: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html?utm_term=.69871797b8f7

[WhiskeyGrinder]

6. This is such an important article.

[LisaL]

22. Sometimes on purpose.

The guy recently got life in prison for leaving the child in the car, jury believed he did it on purpose to get rid of the child. Because everybody automatically assumes it was just an accident, it would be an easy way to get rid of unwanted child.

[Polybius]

28. I believe it's almost always on purpose

You don't "forget" to take your child. Home Alone was more believable, being that it was a larger family...

Edit: Let me retract a little. OK, you can momentarily forget (like a person who runs in a store for a few minutes but gets sidetracked and comes out in 20), but this guy says he went to work and said he thought he dropped them off at a daycare.

[mr_lebowski]

33. People absolutely do ... you couldn't be more wrong on this, no offense (nt)

[Polybius]

41. I don't believe that everybody that leaves their kids in the car is a murderer

There are two sets of these people: There are those that are foolish and believe leaving their baby or dog in 90 degree weather for 10 minutes will be fine, then for whatever reason (long lines, momentary sidetrack) they take 25 minutes, and they find them dead. These people aren't murderers, but they definitely bear some responsibility.

Then there are those like this guy. Let me retract a little. OK, you can momentarily forget (like a person who runs in a store for a few minutes but gets sidetracked and comes out in 20), but not like this guy. He went to work and said he thought he dropped them off at a daycare.

[stopdiggin]

153. you're just plain wrong. but you have a lot of company. (nt)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

34. No. Read #4.

[Polybius]

39. I did

The rich and the poor, males and females do it, I get that. I just disagree that it's accidental.

[essme]

42. you are trying to tell someone

who is either young and dumb, or incredibly arrogant-- that life can happen to them.

I read that- stuff like this scares the crap out of me- I wrote my story below. I KNOW what can happen in an instant. That one moment in time when you walk in to work, distracted...that you forget to turn off the burner in the kitchen....the one time you choose to drive in crappy weather and the weather drops below freezing-

Why do we pretend we are so smart and that everything "bad" happens to others? I don't know.

[Hekate]

63. You ask a good question, essme: Why do we pretend we are so smart everything 'bad' happens to others

For many, it is a defense mechanism, a kind of superstition, to blame others for having misfortunes. As though it could never happen to them because of their personal virtue.

It is horrifying what can happen in the blink of an eye.

[essme]

40. I hope you never have an accident

35 years ago, I had the best dog in the world- Dan. English Setter.

I had to run an errand to a vet clinic. I parked in the shade, and put ALL of the windows all the way down, because Dan was such a smart fella that he would not leave the car. All I was doing was taking something inside the clinic for the doc-- less than 5 minutes.

Did I forget Dan was in the car? No. I rolled down ALL four of the windows- all the way down. Parked in a fairly shady spot. It was around lunchtime- in July. I was not rich enough to have a car with AC.

I was in there for less than five minutes- when I came out, Dan was passed out on the floor board of the car. The ONLY reason he lived was because I was at the vets already. I picked him up, and ran inside crying-- he was immediately put on a table, and the Dr. put ice packs under his "arm pits," (I don't know what you call a dog's arm pits), and started him on IV's.

I genuinely thought for over 5 to 10 minutes that I had killed my dog.

Don't believe life/ accidents cannot happen to you- that is incredibly arrogant, and dangerous.

I had ONE happy ending- Now, when we travel with our dog, I have ice water just for her-- in case we have car trouble. I am not arrogant, I know what can happen.

[LisaL]

45. But you didn't forget your dog was in the car.

You just assumed the dog would be fine if left for 5-10 minutes with windows rolled down. Which was a wrong assumption.
If this was a child, I don't think it would have been considered an accident, but some sort of negligence.

[Polybius]

46. I have plenty of accidents

I am very sorry about your story, but glad it was happy ending. Still, you are different. You thought you were doing the right thing by parking in the shade with your windows down.

I am only talking about the "I forgot" crowd. I am not talking about those that knowingly leave their babies in the car for 5 or 10 minutes, thinking they will be fine. These people are not liars, they just had extreme negligence.

[JustAnotherGen]

128. Close call

I have a little Maltese I thought followed me inside last weekend (heat wave weekend). Went down to get the clothes out of the washer, refreshed his bowl.if water, called him . . .

Five minutes he was melting. I felt so bad - I can't imagine how you felt.

[Iggo]

43. You're not that stupid.

[Polybius]

47. Thanks, nor am I a murderer

[Iggo]

50. Have fun!

[Polybius]

51. Not having much here today

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

57. That's the most cynical, cruel thing I've read on DU

in a long time, if ever. I’m sorry you have such a dark, sad worldview.

[Polybius]

60. I'm sorry that you feel that way

No cruelty intended. I did say "almost" though, and I believe that in this case, he's a murderer. Bookmark it, he'll be convicted.

Again, no harm intended.

[Crunchy Frog]

149. His charges don't include murder

So I very much doubt that he'll be convicted of it.

[UniteFightBack]

154. It's amazing that someone could make a blanket judgement like that...obviously they must

be deeply familiar with every single case of leaving a kid in the car which resulted in death.

[alphafemale]

137. With Cooper in ATL

Fully convinced that was intentional.

Also fully convinced that little boy was still alive and screamed when his dad came back and threw something in the car at lunch time.

Not the full heat of the afternoon yet.

Full intent.

[JoeOtterbein]

27. Thanks for the clip. I can't read the rest behind the paywall.

Also, I should add that I've also had hamsters, carnival fish and hermit crabs in my car.

I never forgot them either. And I never will.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

55. I'll never forget this article.

[KentuckyWoman]

76. That article is worth it's own OP.

Not only children, but shorter adults, surgical patients, etc can be hurt by the passenger airbag. There has to be a way to turn it off. when the car is turned off and then back on then it can reset automatically to the on position and you have to turn it off again.

I don't understand people who leave kids in the car because I've never had kids, and never had a car seat strapped in my car. A young mom in my complex who is a motivated parent and well educated, said she's done it twice - barely got into work and said "oh shit" and ran back outside.

if she can do it, anyone can.

[JoeOtterbein]

5. I can't believe any driver who "forgot" and left a child, or animal, in a car.

I've driven hundreds of thousands of miles, many times with my children, other children, cats, dogs and ferrets. Never, for a second was I not aware of the presence of life, other than my own, in that car.

I would never even forget a ferret, let alone a child.

No one would.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. Read this article and you'll understand why.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html?utm_term=.69871797b8f7

[JoeOtterbein]

24. Thanks, but the article is behind a paywall. Can you post a few clips? nt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

32. Here:

The human brain ... is a magnificent but jury-rigged device in which newer and more sophisticated structures sit atop a junk heap of prototype brains still used by lower species. At the top of the device are the smartest and most nimble parts: the prefrontal cortex, which thinks and analyzes, and the hippocampus, which makes and holds on to our immediate memories. At the bottom is the basal ganglia, nearly identical to the brains of lizards, controlling voluntary but barely conscious actions.

...

Diamond has found that stress -- either sudden or chronic -- can weaken the brain’s higher-functioning centers, making them more susceptible to bullying from the basal ganglia. He’s seen the same sort of thing play out in cases he’s followed involving infant deaths in cars. “The quality of prior parental care seems to be irrelevant,” he said. “The important factors that keep showing up involve a combination of stress, emotion, lack of sleep and change in routine, where the basal ganglia is trying to do what it’s supposed to do, and the conscious mind is too weakened to resist. What happens is that the memory circuits in a vulnerable hippocampus literally get overwritten, like with a computer program. Unless the memory circuit is rebooted -- such as if the child cries, or, you know, if the wife mentions the child in the back -- it can entirely disappear.”

And why we think we'd never do it and demonize those who do:

Humans, Hickling said, have a fundamental need to create and maintain a narrative for their lives in which the universe is not implacable and heartless, that terrible things do not happen at random, and that catastrophe can be avoided if you are vigilant and responsible.

In hyperthermia cases, he believes, the parents are demonized for much the same reasons. “We are vulnerable, but we don’t want to be reminded of that. We want to believe that the world is understandable and controllable and unthreatening, that if we follow the rules, we’ll be okay. So, when this kind of thing happens to other people, we need to put them in a different category from us. We don’t want to resemble them, and the fact that we might is too terrifying to deal with. So, they have to be monsters.”

[JoeOtterbein]

96. Thanks for the clip. But I think the human capacity for evil is the reason for at least most...

...the cases. Think about those who leave dogs in hot cars. We likely don't believe if in most cases, because dogs make noise. So do babies and children. Even when they are asleep. Breathing, moving about, etc. And two children, as in this case, make twice as much noise.

[Tipperary]

9. I just cannot understand it either.

I have owned pets all my life and would never forget them in a car.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

12. Yes, you could. Everybody could. See post #4.

[Tipperary]

15. I did read it.

A very good read and an important one. It is just not something I would or could do.

I have lived more than half my life already; I can bet with certainty this is not something I will ever do. That being said, just because I cannot understand it does not mean that perfectly decent people let this happen. I simply do not get it.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

18. If you have a normal human brain it could happen to you.

It probably won't, but it could.

[marybourg]

107. You're so right.

I had my children before the age of modern car seats. We mostly had little bassinets and then hanging front seats so toddlers could look out. Other than that, they sat in the front seat. They couldn’t be forgotten. But in the back seat, in a rearward facing seat that would look the same in the rearview mirror loaded or empty. Yes, it’s a terrifying thought, but I could have done that. And I wasn’t even an over-busy, stressed out working parent.

[Polybius]

58. Is that your reply for everyone with a different opinion other than yours?

It's getting repetitive.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

59. Not my opinion. Expert opinions as cited in the article.

If you choose not to believe them, fine, but I’m not making any of this stuff up. It’s science.

[Polybius]

62. Wouldn't it be just a theory

Unless the scientists accidentally did it themselves?

Anyway, let's get back to this case. This guy is beyond the usual "I forgot" answer. He claims he thought he dropped them off at daycare.

[Stargazer09]

66. And according to his brain...

...he did drop them off. Unfortunately, something happened on the way to work that caused his brain to “remember” dropping them off, even though he obviously didn’t.

I’ve read quite a few articles about these incidents. It’s natural for people to demonize the parents/caregivers, but the vast majority of the time, they really aren’t murderers.

A lot of day care centers now automatically call the parents if the kids aren’t dropped off on time, but sometimes, they get busy and forget.

[marybourg]

164. Look up the meaning of "theory".

[Polybius]

166. It basically means an unproven hypothesis

From Dictionary.com:

A proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.

[marybourg]

167. Au contraire:

“A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world.”

[Polybius]

169. However you put it, it's unproven

I'm the one who first mentioned the word "theory" anyway, so it's irrelevant.

[yardwork]

10. I disagree. I can see how this happens.

We go on autopilot. I can't imagine the horror. My heart goes out to these parents. It could happen to anybody.

[JoeOtterbein]

29. I know I've been on auto-pilot for at least hundreds of thousands of miles.

But the thing about being on auto-pilot is that when something changes that normal routine, like adding a child to the mix, it makes it more difficult to forget. Not easier.

[yardwork]

88. Not necessarily.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

14. "No one would." And yet, they do. I encourage you to read the wapo article that the

Velveteen Ocelot posted.

[demosincebirth]

35. Never say "never."

[Tipperary]

65. Is he a single father? It just seems weird to me he would not have a phone text or conversation

during the day with his wife/partner whatever. And it seems so odd that he would not at least think about his kids during the day. Geez, even on vacation, I wonder what my dogs are up to in my absence. I check on them daily with the friend caring for them.

[LisaL]

78. No, he is not a single father. He is married.

I also find it hard to understand how in 8 hours of work he didn't realize he didn't drop off the kids.

[Tipperary]

83. Yeah, seems like they would talk on the phone and she would ask how the kids were.

You know, just ask how they were when he dropped them off. I have asked my dog sitter how my pooches are when she takes them to the vet for me. Are they calm? Happy? Upset? Seems like a normal conversation when one has children.

I just cannot understand it.

[LisaL]

116. One would think that, but I guess one would be wrong.

Not only this guy forgot his children in his car, he didn't realize that for the whole 8 hours he was working?

[Tipperary]

118. I know. It would mean that his kids did not cross his mind all day.

Very odd.

Many daycares even have live feeds so you can check on your little ones. Many people do so throughout the day. I simply cannot understand how he would not think of them, talk to his wife, have some sort of conversation about his kids all day. Not to mention, to me it is odd he stayed in his workplace all day long. In my experience, people leave for lunch, or a walk, a breath of air outside...

[Luciferous]

122. You think the daycare would have also contacted someone to find out

why they hadn't been dropped off...

[Tipperary]

123. Yeah, I thought of that as well, but maybe that is not a thing with daycares.

I have no idea.

I also do not get how two babies were locked in a hot car for 8 hours, yet he got in and drove a bit before he noticed them? Sorry, but surely there would have been some odor?

[Luciferous]

124. Yeah the whole thing seems suspicious.

[LisaL]

135. One would think there would have been an awful smell in there, considering

two children essentially baked all day.

[Tipperary]

138. Yes, and of course they would have urinated and defecated. God the whole thing is awful.

But that smell should have hit him the second he opened the door. Makes no sense that he would drive for a bit before “noticing.” Just weird.

[LisaL]

139. Exactly.

[demosincebirth]

152. Could be he doesn't, normally, take his kids to wherever he was taking them to.

[LisaL]

159. He was supposed to drop them off at daycare.

He just dropped off an older child at another daycare, apparently. Presumably at that time he would have seen the twins again and yet he still forgot they were in the car.

[demosincebirth]

162. What I meant was maybe he doesn't usually take them.

Maybe his wife usually does.

[USALiberal]

145. "No one would"?? Really? So EVERY case was on purpose?? Plain BS. nt

[CTyankee]

11. Every year, we read stories like this.

I just can't understand why. How can anyone "forget" ones own two babies in the back seat?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. See post #4.

[PSPS]

16. The father is inconsolable over this tragedy. I can't imagine what he's going through.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

21. Also, fuck capitalism.

[Joe941]

23. Never leave kids in the car even if your forgot something in the house...

People can get distracted and this stuff happens.

[LisaL]

25. This guy went to work, and apparently forgot the kids in the car while he worked.

[demosincebirth]

37. "Distracted" is the key.

[Polybius]

30. "I assumed I dropped them off at daycare before I went to work"

That's what his answer was to police. So he assumed that he did something that he didn't do?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

36. No. Read #32.

[Polybius]

49. Let me retract a little

OK, you can momentarily forget (like a person who runs in a store for a few minutes but gets sidetracked and comes out in 20), but this guy says he went to work and said he thought he dropped them off at a daycare.

[mr_lebowski]

38. Not necessarily ...

I LITERALLY have no children (never had any) PRECISELY because of how how easily I could inadvertently fuck up like this.

I've literally answered people for 30+ years ... "are you going to have kids?" with these 2 answers ... 1) there's enough children in teh world, and 2) I'd be the idiot who would forget his child in the car and they end up dying, or doing something else forgetful that would have a terrible effect.

I 100% KNOW I'm too absent-minded to be a competent dad, and that is 100% why ... I have no kids.

Well, that and because there's enough kids already.

[LisaL]

48. If you actually have a concern that you might forget children in the car, there are numerous things

you can do to prevent that from happening.
Simple one, put your briefcase/cellphone, handbag or whatever you have to carry to work in the back with the child. You are not going to forget that for long.

[mr_lebowski]

53. Yes but you can forget to put the handbag in the back with the child in the first place ...

I think non-forgetful people ... don't quite understand the phenomenon

[Hav]

61. I think it's similar to these "helpful" advices:

Put a knot into your handkerchief to remind you about something you shouldn't forget. I was never persuaded that this is how it worked.

[LisaL]

113. Well, if you forget everything, then I guess not having children is a good idea.

There are numerous things that someone can do to prevent this. But if they are not going to be able to remember any of these things, then yes, they shouldn't be having children.

[John1956PA]

84. You and I are of the same mind on this subject n/t

[smirkymonkey]

102. I agree with you. I could easily see something like this happening to me. Not because I am

cruel or irresponsible, but because I am just in my head most of the time and don't think I would be a very good or attentive parent. When my nieces and nephews were younger, my siblings were always reprimanding me for not keeping a good enough eye on them or being aware of what they needed. My heart goes out to this man and others like him. It's just very tragic all the way around.

[UpInArms]

44. Tragedies

Where lives are destroyed... and ended ... with no path through the darkness

... I weep for them ...

[LiberalFighter]

54. If it was someone that parked their car and spent the day or nite in a bar.

I would consider it different.

Based on some of the other posters here. The circumstances would make it easy to do what the guy did unintentionally.

[Mariana]

110. Why?

He says he thought he dropped off the kids. If that's true, what difference does it make where he went afterward?

[bedazzled]

56. Part of the problem might be that cars are so big now...

I had a corolla, and my son was always in sight.

If you had a larger car, and kid wasn't visible...exhausted and on autopilot...

These folks don't need punishment. They will spend their whole lives punishing themselves.

[Everyman Jackal]

64. I am 76 years old.

I have driven places with my children in the car, my grandchildren in the car, and my great-grandchildren in the car. With my dogs in the car, my cats in the car and my hen in the car. I have never left a child in the car to even run into a store to get them icecream. The longest I have ever left an animal in the car is when I mail a letter and I am parked within 5 feet of the mailbox. To me and it is just my opinion if you leave a child in a car and forget to drop him or her at school, you don't care enough of that child to even have one. If you are more worried about your job than keeping your child safe you should not be taking care of that child.

[Stargazer09]

69. That isn't fair

You’ve been fortunate enough to never have this happen to you. I’m as thankful for that as you probably are.

However, you may not have had the same stressors that other people have had. Many of these parents and caregivers are exhausted and pushed to their limits.

In addition, today’s infant and toddler car seats face backwards, and given the way car rides tend to put babies to sleep, it’s ridiculously easy to forget to check the backseat of the car when you get out. Add to that some sort of stress at home or at work, or a road-rage incident, or an unexpected detour on the way to the daycare, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Blaming the parents isn’t going to fix the problem.

[Stargazer09]

74. Excuse me?

I never said I was perfect.

[bedazzled]

85. Yeah you just never make mistakes

Got it

[renate]

91. I think the "you" was generic, in response to #64

And yeah, like you, I'm kind of aggravated by those who say "I would never...." because almost nobody has ever done this deliberately. The guy had a demanding job at the VA--he surely didn't have time to call his wife and chat about how the kids were when he dropped them off.

If there were a public education program that taught parents to leave their left shoe in back with the kids (if they drive an automatic), or their phone, or their work uniform, or their purse or briefcase--anything--in back with their kids, the way we all know now not to leave them to sleep on their tummies, this wouldn't happen as often. But that's not to blame the parents; this is almost never the parent being selfish or stupid, I'm certain.

[Tipperary]

117. No time to call his wife all day long?

Not buying that.

[renate]

129. My husband doesn't call me (well, hardly ever)

Different couples have different routines that work for them. He’s too busy. I actually wouldn’t even particularly want a call to just say hi, although I can totally understand how many people would find that to be nice.

I would bet that a social worker at the VA is absolutely swamped. Plenty of people have jobs at which they can’t call a spouse to ask how the day-care dropoff went, even if they wanted to.

It’s interesting to see how some people are absolutely certain this could never happen to them and some can see how it could. I’ve always been a hypervigilant parent, to the point of overdoing it to be honest, but I can see how an exhausted parent on autopilot, possibly preoccupied with the stresses of a high-pressure job like his, maybe after being up at night with one of his five kids, could make a fatal mistake like this. Fatigue can really affect the brain. There were times when I was practically hallucinating from lack of sleep.

[LisaL]

134. Do you have small children?

[renate]

161. They're not small any more....

I do miss those days.

[LisaL]

75. Seriously? Nowdays you have to be fortunate to not forget your darn kid in your car?

[Stargazer09]

77. I did not say that

I said that it’s not as black-and-white as people want it to be.

[LisaL]

81. Not sure why everybody would just automatically believe the children are truly forgotten.

Like I said, it had been done on purpose in the past.

[Everyman Jackal]

86. My post was about people who have truly forgotten their children.

As for your post, I totally agree with you. Kind of like someone saying that they were bathing their baby when the phone rang and they didn't know how long they were away from the bathtub and when they got back their child was dead and they are just so upset.

[Stargazer09]

87. It may have been on purpose once

But from what I read, the majority of the time, it was accidental.

Someone would have to be extraordinarily cruel to murder a child that way.

[LisaL]

105. We don't know how many times it has actually been done on purpose.

People claim they forgot, and it would be pretty hard to prove otherwise. As far as I can tell, most of these people are either not charged or not convicted.

[MontanaMama]

67. I hope this family gets some counseling.

Especially the surviving older child. Imagine losing your siblings to a tragedy caused by your parent? The grief has got to be overwhelming. My husband has a friend who accidentally backed over his young child with his truck and killed him. It was his only child. He and his wife stayed married...I’m not sure how they accomplished that. Many marriages don’t survive the death of a child let alone a death caused by a parent.

[bobbieinok]

68. Every yr there're a few reports like this. I just don't understand how you forget a child!

[TexasBushwhacker]

71. I saw a good suggestion

Parents driving with kids in the back seat should take off their left shoe and put it in the back seat beforecthey start their journey. They can drive with just their right shoe on, but they aren't going to walk into work or a store without getting their left shoe in the back seat.

[bedazzled]

73. That is a really good idea

Cheap, too. I can't imagine how stressed out people with small children are now. It was bad enough 20 years ago...

[OhZone]

79. Doesn't work for a manual transmission.

Yeah, this lady drives a manual. And I used to have a Harley too.

[Tipperary]

100. Please, then they can put the other shoe in the back. Or a purse. Whatever.

Dayum, Am I the only one who drove cars barefoot? Manual transmission included.

[OhZone]

120. Oh, I've done that -

but I don't like it. Better than heels or flip-flops, though! Ha! But I like flats or sneaks for driving.

On the other hand, it doesn't look I'll ever have a kid anyway so it doesn't matter. :/

[Tipperary]

121. Ha! Flip flops are the worst!

Yeah, I have outgrown my barefoot driving days, sadly.

[Iggo]

80. Looks like they found our outrage-of-the-day.

Last week it was little girls with bad haircuts. Yesterday it was the definition of rape. Today it's dead babies in cars.

We're predictable.

And easy.

[LisaL]

82. I guess there is nothing outrageous about baking your kid in your car.

Got it.

[Iggo]

163. Why do you guess that?

[zackymilly]

95. I thought yesterday was pitbulls. nt

[Tipperary]

89. The article says he was "greeted by cheers and high fives" when released. WTF?

Cheers and high fives???

[UniteFightBack]

94. It was his family because I guess they believe him. nt

[Tipperary]

97. Two babies dead in the most horrific way. Not a time for cheers and high fives.

Sorry. That is just wrong.

[UniteFightBack]

99. It was strange but maybe it's what the guy needed since he was non stop bawling all through

the proceedings. ???? I really don't know but that is my best spin on it.

PS His wife was there to pick him up.

[LisaL]

112. I thought it was awful.

Doesn't seem there is anything to cheer for in this situation.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

92. This is an important issue, and not just because of kids left in cars.

The reasons a parent forgets their kid is in the car are the very same reasons pilots crash airplanes that are in perfect working order: distraction, stress and fatigue - the latter also having been identified as a major factor in the Chernobyl, Challenger and Exxon Valdez disasters. I used to teach this stuff in a university aviation safety course, and the Washington Post article I cited in this thread was required reading in my class because of its direct application to aviation accidents. The NTSB database is full of reports of plane crashes that happened because the pilots were distracted, or tired, or stressed, or some combination of those things.

For example, a pilot working for a major airline once landed an airliner with the landing gear up despite repeated aural warnings from the landing gear and ground proximity warning systems; he was distracted by a personal matter and didn't "hear" the warnings. The pilots involved in human error-related accidents almost always had perfect records - no accidents, no violations - but their brains failed them in this particular instance in the same way the brains of the parents who left their kids in cars failed them. This is why airlines require the use of checklists, why pilots' working hours are limited by regulation, and why pilots are required to ground themselves if they are unwell or fatigued.

But even with these precautions, accidents resulting from the imperfect operation of the human brain still sometimes occur, in aviation and in other industries. Anyone who has a safety-related job knows how human factors affect their operations; these studies have been done for years. But parents don't have any such requirements, and there are no safety warnings - because, unlike pilots, who know they need checklists and warnings and are trained in how to recognize fatigue and stress, parents (and judgmental observers) don't think they need these things, because of course this would never happen to them. Until it does.

[LisaL]

115. Considering the world is over populated, it doesn't happen to vast majority of people.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

125. Plane crashes don't happen very often either,

but when they do, the accident matters a hell of a lot to the people involved, as it does when a kid is left in a car. Both occurrences are tragedies that can happen because of the way people's brains work (or sometimes don't work), and the magnitude and suffering aren't dependent in the slightest on whether or not the world is overpopulated. Are you suggesting that the death of a child is no big deal because of overpopulation? I sure hope not.

[LisaL]

130. No, what I am suggesting is that vast majority of people manage not to forget their children in

their car.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

132. The vast majority of pilots don't crash their airplanes, either.

This doesn't mean we can or should ignore the reasons for those fortunately rare instances when these things do happen. We have to understand the effects of stress and fatigue on the mind in order to be able to prevent these occurrences even if they are uncommon.

[LisaL]

136. If you forgot to stop at the red light and caused a crash that killed someone,

do you think police would just let you go free? Because you forgot you are therefore not responsible for whatever you have done? That seems to be an argument here.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

140. Forgot what?

You can't forget to stop at a light because that's a present situation, not a thing that happened in the past. You might not see it because the sun is in your eyes (which might mitigate your fault); or maybe you did see it and decided to run it anyhow, in which case of course you would be completely culpable. But that's a bad analogy; there's no forgetting involved in that example. The issue, which you might understand a bit better if you read the article I cited in post #4, is whether and under which circumstances stress, distraction and fatigue can override the brain's ability to process information, leading a person to believe they had performed a task that they had done many times, but in that particular situation failed to do while believing they had done it that time because they'd done it so many times before.

So I make scrambled eggs for breakfast and I always turn the stove off when I'm finished cooking. But maybe one morning I'm running late and as I'm cooking I get a phone call from an angry bill collector; then I drop the eggs on the floor as I take them off the stove. I try to clean up the mess but I'm late for work so I run out of the house without turning off the stove. I'm preoccupied all day with my bill problem and no breakfast but it doesn't occur to me that I failed to turn off the stove because I always turn off the stove, but when I get home the pan has melted and the whole kitchen is about to catch fire. Am I guilty of attempted arson?

[LisaL]

141. How is it a bad analogy?

In fact since car crashes happen much more often than plane crashes, how is your plane crash a good analogy?
Why exactly can't you forget to stop at a red light? You are talking about someone being distracted and not paying attention. You are claiming distracted people can't run a red light? This never happens?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

142. You can't *forget* to stop at a red light because it's right in front of you.

You might run it because you were looking down at your phone while sending a text, but that's plain old negligence, in which you chose to be distracted by your phone. It's not the same as failing to accomplish a task that you always do every time (extend the landing gear, drop off the kid at day care) but on this one occasion you didn't do it on account of fatigue, stress or other distracting factors, while assuming you did it because you always do it.

[LisaL]

150. But you can forget the children who are right behind you?

And it's not just one child, it's two. Neither was making any noise? And it's not just momentary forgetfulness, because he didn't realize for whole 8 hours that he forgot the kids.

[stopdiggin]

160. you don't want to believe that this can happen

despite multiple efforts to steer you toward evidence that it can (and does). The human mind is a fallible system. The evidence is legion. Our "memory" is much more malleable than we like to think. The implications of these failings scare the hell out of us (and probably should) .. therefore we deal with them by means of denial, or ignoring them (which we probably shouldn't). Welcome to the human condition.

[Tipperary]

144. The Challenger? Huh?

That was not caused by distraction.

In your other example of a pilot landing with gear up...was there no co-pilot present?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

146. I said fatigue was a factor in the Challenger explosion, not distraction.

The space shuttle exploded just seconds after its January 1986 launch, killing all seven crew members. According to a 1988 report, certain managers involved in the launch had only slept two hours before arriving to work at 1 a.m. that morning. The Presidential Commission on the accident admitted the danger of this deprivation in its June 1986 report, writing, "The willingness of NASA employees in general to work excessive hours, while admirable, raises serious questions when it jeopardizes job performance, particularly when critical management decisions are at stake."

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sleep-deprivation-accidents-disasters_n_4380349

The NTSB report on the gear-up landing states:

The topic of the captain’s conversation indicates that his attention was directed
outside the cockpit as he assessed the weather’s effect on his tennis plans. It would have been
unlikely for him to detect the momentary illumination of the “MASTER CAUTION” light,
especially if he was using a side window to view the rain on the ground. The first officer may
have been distracted by the captain’s statements, or by his own concern about the ATC speed
request. It is possible that he was examining an approach plate or the cockpit instruments to
evaluate his position relative to the outer marker. It is also possible that he detected the
momentary illumination of the “MASTER CAUTION” light, but assigned it no significance
because the blue “SLATS EXTEND” light was illuminated, providing a positive cue of system
function. The failure of the flaps to extend to 5 degrees was an important cue that the hydraulic
system was not properly configured. The detection and diagnosis of the flap problem at this
stage of flight could have prevented the accident. Although the Safety Board was unable to
determine the specific reason why the flightcrew failed to detect the momentary illumination of
the “MASTER CAUTION” light or the zero flap gauge indication, it concludes that the captain’s
distraction from his duties as pilot-in-command and his disregard for the sterile cockpit rule
contributed to the pilots’ failure to detect their hydraulic system configuration error when they
selected 5 degrees of flaps.

The first officer's failure to try to prevent the accident was attributed in part to a previous incident in which he had been disciplined:

The first officer’s failure to assert himself and overtly challenge the captain’s
decision to continue the approach must be evaluated in the context of the strategy he had
developed after the A-300 incident in 1994 when he was removed from duty for 60 days and sent
to a psychiatrist for evaluation following a captain’s complaint. The first officer described the A300 incident as “terribly damaging” to him personally and professionally. He told Safety Board
investigators he believed his career would be in jeopardy if another captain complained to
management about him. Therefore, after the incident, he adopted a cautious and deferential
mode of interaction with captains to prevent a recurrence, even though this style of
communication could on occasion conflict with the CRM training he had received.

The NTSB also found that "the pilots failed to detect the numerous cues alerting them to the
status of the gear for the same reasons they failed to perform the landing checklist—
preoccupation with the flap extension problem and their high workload during the final minute of
the flight."
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR9701.pdf

[Tipperary]

147. Thanks for the links.

The Challenger disaster was because of the O-ring failure, and the fact the people in charge did not want to delay that flight. It is pretty well documented.

Back to this father - how did he not smell what must have been an awful odor inside that car? How did he get in and drive before noticing? That is one hell of a distracted person.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

148. It was the o-ring failure that did it, but fatigue was cited as a contributing factor.

People who have had only two hours of sleep sometimes fail to notice things or exercise good judgment.

[NutmegYankee]

151. I appreciate your efforts in this thread.

People like to make the world simple and don’t want to admit that we can make glaring mistakes even when presented with clear clues. We really don’t take all information in and process it equally, and will ignore some information if another idea/thought has our brains attention, even if it’s someone yelling at you to get your attention.

[dalton99a]

165. 'I totally forgot she was in my car,' Intel engineer tells police after 6-month-old daughter dies

https://www.oregonlive.com/hillsboro/2015/03/i_totally_forgot_she_was_in_my.html
'I totally forgot she was in my car,' Intel engineer tells police after 6-month-old daughter dies
Updated Mar 4, 2015; Posted Mar 3, 2015
By Rebecca Woolington | The Oregonian/OregonLive

Joshua Freier got the call at work. His wife asked, Where's Jillian?

Their 6-month-old daughter wasn't at day care when she arrived to pick up the couple's baby and older brother.

At that moment, Freier realized what he had done, according to newly unsealed court records.

He knew where he could find their daughter.

Freier jumped up from his work station at the Intel Jones Farm campus in Hillsboro with so much force his shoelace, caught on his chair, tore off one of its wheels. He gripped the wheel in his hand as he raced to the blue Nissan Leaf he had parked outside.

(Prosecutors later dropped all charges calling the incident a "tragic and unintentional accident" )

[Loki Liesmith]

93. No.

Have to trash thread for sanity.

[Fla Dem]

98. There are ways to remind yourself there is a child in the back seat.

As many have said, leave an article that you need (purse, wallet, cell phone, briefcase )back there with the child so even if you walk away from the auto forgetting the article, at some point you will look for it and realize you forgot your child. But people say you may forget to leave the item on the back seat when you buckle the baby in. So nope that won't work.

So how about putting a big red, wide, red ribbon bow on the back of the child seat. Right at the top. Make a big bow so it's noticeable when you put the child in the seat. Then leave a big long length of that ribbon to drape over the front seat. When you finish buckling the child all safe and secure, just take the nice long red ribbon and drape it over the front seat, or through the separation between the 2 front seats. Sure would be hard to miss.



I'm always forgetting to do something when I'm out and about, so I make a list and tape it to my dashboard, right in front of me. How hard would it be to get one of those "Baby on Board" signs. Leave it on the front drivers seat, so whoever is driving will see it after they secure the baby and will pick it up and put it on their dashboard.



Or how about just getting a timer. If it normally takes 10-15 minutes to get to the daycare, or wherever the child is to be dropped off, set the timer for 20 minutes. If the timer goes off, bingo! you forgot to drop the child off. This one will stick right on the dashboard.



I know this is a very heartbreaking situation for families. I'm certainly not perfect and said I forget things, but maybe just taking a preventative step might prevent it.

[honest.abe]

101. Horrific. I have a two year old and it just makes me ill to even think of this happening.

However, I would not be quick to condemn this man. We as parents of young children are overworked, overstressed, sleep deprived and we sometimes make mistakes although this mistake is a huge one. I have read he is a loving caring parent and simply forgot his children were there for some inexplicable reason. Not intentional, not negligent, just forgot. I suspect the jury will have mercy on him.

[unitedwethrive]

111. Of course the minority was charged. There have been so many white people who do the same

and never get charged. A case in point...the man who left his baby in a car at the BART parking lot in El Cerrito, CA several years ago while he was at work. Same thing - forgot to drop off at daycare - but he isn't criminally charged. If I have time, I'm going to look into this from a minority angle. It's a tragedy, and I personally think all negligent parents should be charged, but I hate that it is done selectively.

[EllieBC]

114. Put your cell phone, your wallet, your purse, your pit bull, your laptop

in the back next to the car seat. Whatever you will think of more than your babies because apparently they are that easy to forget.

[JustAnotherGen]

127. I have a 2017 Turbo Bug

It reminds me to not forget my cell phone.

I really like the idea of a mandatory sensor. Cars are intelligent enough these days to do it.

[JennyMominFL]

133. I forgot my kids in a grocery store once

I brought 2 of my kids with me. They were 8 and 5. I was tired and stressed and totally forgot that i brought them with me. I left, went and got in the car, started it up and got ready to leave when I saw them running to the car.
My kids are happy healthy adults now and I still cannot believe that i did that.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

143. This is *exactly* the kind of situation I've been trying to explain throughout this thread.

Thanks for posting it; I hope you don't get slagged for having been a terrible mother, since some here have been insisting that they would never, ever do such a thing as forget their children. Thanks for the reminder of how normal people and good mothers can be so tired and stressed that they can, indeed, do such a thing.

[UniteFightBack]

155. Thanks for sharing. Not sure how people 'can't understand' how something like this can happen and

not on purpose.

[LisaL]

156. Do you think it would have taken you 8 hours to realize you forgot your kids in a store if they

didn't run after your car?

[JennyMominFL]

157. no

No I would have realized it pretty quickly, i think. But bad things could have happened in that 5 minutes. Kids disappear in seconds and it would have been my fault.

[LisaL]

158. Well this guy went to work, worked there for 8 hours,

and apparently hasn't realized he never dropped off the kids during all that time.

[Meowmee]

168. It is hard to believe you can forget all day

And then not notice them in the car when you get in. It is a good reason not to have so many children or any at all. A lot of people just should not have any children. I know of a few events- family leaves one of their many children at a rest stop and doesn't remember until 1/2 hr later after driving away- child was ok. Family sends 7 year old child with 12 year old sibling to the beach. Child tragically drowned. Family goes on vacation with 3 children, one a toddler, toddler tragically drowns in the hotel pool with family members and numerous people present.

Cars need to have sensors to warn people about this, although some people will not notice them as well. I remember a story where a man left his baby in the baby seat on top of the car and drove away. Other drivers warned him and by some miracle the baby was ok.