Trump's crimes are countless. But it's pedophilia that will destroy him.

[Cyrano]

Concentration camps, emoluments, ignoring congressional oversight, obstruction of justice, cooperating with Russia to steal an election, illegal campaign payoffs, and the sheer volume of crimes he's committed while in the Oval Office won't bring him down. Pick any or all of them. It's doubtful he'll ever have to answer for any of them. (And many of them weren't even hidden. He blatantly committed them right out in the open.)

However, his (as of now, suspected) sexual escapades with Epstein's parade of underage girls, ranging from 13 on up, will be the death knell for the orange creature.

Many here will take me to task for stating this (as yet) unproven accusation. But we've watched him for years now, we know he was close with Epstein, and we know that there's nothing, absolutely nothing, that is beyond him.

I believe it's only a matter of time until Trump and many other "high ranking people" are exposed. And there may even be pics or film. Does anyone really believe that Epstein wants to spend the rest of his life in jail, when he may shorten his sentence by giving up others?

(Then again, who would be surprised if he were found hanging in his cell? Without photos or film, his "suicide" would put an end to it.)

Many of his MAGAs would probably stick with Trump even if he ate a live kitten on camera. But I believe there are MAGAs, especially the women, for whom an accusation like pedophilia would be too much.

It won't matter what Mueller says. It won't matter how many of his ex minions write "tell-all" books about him. And he perhaps could really shoot someone on 5th Ave and get away with it.

But this is a stench that will stick with him like shit on your shoe. It's not something he can ignore and walk away from. MAGAs who believe they've found their god will stand with him. But many will slink away and try to make believe they never heard of him.

[dlk]

1. I Think You're Probably Right

Pedophiles are reviled across the political spectrum. I don’t Ordinarily congratulate Republicans but thank you Geoffrey Bergman and your entire team at SDNY. You succeeded in filing charges before Barr could interfere and quash them.

[SallyHemmings]

2. I sure hope you are right.

I’ve given up on a large part of our society. Far too many people, simply aren’t paying attention which concerns me.

I am basking in your optimism.

[barbtries]

29. not only that,

but they have a ready reply no matter how much evidence you place before them. "fake news" - the die hard cultists will simply refuse to believe it.

[in2herbs]

59. I wonder how often the opinions of fake news trumpettes show up in polling and skew

the reality of what America is.

[barbtries]

60. I'm getting really impatient with polls of republicans.

at this point we don't know how many republicans are left. just give me a poll of the people. i don't think trump will fare well.

[Eyeball_Kid]

90. GOPers painted themselves into a box from which there is no escape.

If they oppose Trumpy in any way, they'll be pilloried by his base and/or they'll be primaried. If they move in lockstep with Trumpy, they doom their party to history. Even if they win 2020, they will have destroyed the basis for their legitimacy. They will become a white supremacy party that will not survive. Every GOPer's reputation will be tarnished by his/her association with the White Supremacist in Chief, the White Supremacist Grand Wizard.

I'm worried that the Dems will use the "racist" pejorative to the point that it will become an ambiguous term. "White Supremacist" is far more concrete and emotionally evocative. And truthful.

[barbtries]

97. i agree.

i'm wont to use "Nazi" - to my mind that is what they are. But White Supremacist is good and i do agree - not only are republicans already floating the meme that the word "racism" doesn't mean anything anymore because Democrats fling it around so often, they turn it around (as ridiculous as that is) and claim that if we call them racists, that means we are racists (?). They can't do that with White Supremacist. i mean they can try...lol

[Mike Nelson]

3. His supporters will...

A. Not care,
B. Lie and deny, or
C. Look the other way.

There is no bottom.

[watoos]

7. I disagree,

If there is proof that Trump is a pedophile, he will be the Jerry Sandusky of presidents.

Pedo45 - 2020.

[Pacifist Patriot]

78. Their confirmation bias is off the chart though.

A video of him assaulting a child would be dismissed as doctored.

A confession from his lips would be shrugged off as a joke or coerced.

If they don't want to believe it, they won't.

[tenderfoot]

102. Wingnuts defended Joe Paterno to the bitter end

See a documentary called 'Happy Valley' then get back to us how "real Americans" reacted to Sandusky/Paterno/Penn State Football.

They will not care.

[Nasruddin]

17. D There will be a sudden

outbreak of rampant, brazen pedophilia all over the country, as Mr Trump's supporters normalize yet another criminal and anti-social behavior.

[MadLinguist]

68. and a sudden flood of deepfake easily debunked videos of other unrelated shyte

to provide cover for videos of DJT with children.

[uponit7771]

20. B... It's what they've been doing since the beginning

[ProudLib72]

21. Roy Moore

That's all I have to say on the matter.

[BadgerMom]

30. Gym Jordan

Crickets about the fact he knew young athletes were being abused. Ohio, why?

[Polybius]

80. His accusations were slightly lesser

He's alleged to have made moves on 14-18 year old girls when he was in his early 30's, but he was never accused of paying for them, and they have said that when they refused, he stopped. I don't believe he has been accused of rape at this time. The age of consent is 16 in Alabama to this day, by the way. I'm in no way defending him, but Epstein's crimes are far worse.

[meadowlander]

84. Still got 48.3% of the vote...

[duforsure]

4. The video

Will be devastating, or will the GOP/KGB/kkk/fascist party care? Bet Barr is trying to get his hands on the video's to destroy them for him, and shut their investigations down like he'll be shown to have done to others against trump. Barr's karma will be really , really bad.

[Iliyah]

9. No they do not care.

These young girls were not their sisters, daughters, relatives, friends, human beings.

Barr is a hateful person. He will get his one day and I hope I'm around when it happens.

I see t-rump slipping downward further beneath into purgatory where he belongs. I hope much sooner than later.

[jberryhill]

5. What I find interesting...

...is that there are camps on both left and right who are certain of the existence of a far-reaching conspiracy of pedophiles. They only differ as to the participants.

What's also interesting about it is how the same type of thing is a recurring theme - Pizzagate, the "Franklin scandal", the "Satanic Panic", the Salem Witch Trials, and back to various historical panics which have usually involved Jews poisoning wells or drinking the blood of Christian babies.

Many here will take me to task for stating this (as yet) unproven accusation.

One can state " (as yet) unproven accusations" all day long. I don't know why they are preferable to the proven ones from which they are a distraction.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse

Satanic ritual abuse (SRA, sometimes known as ritual abuse, ritualistic abuse, organized abuse, or sadistic ritual abuse) was the subject of a moral panic (often referred to as the satanic panic) that originated in the United States in the 1980s, spreading throughout many parts of the world by the late 1990s. Allegations of SRA involved reports of physical and sexual abuse of people in the context of occult or Satanic rituals. In its most extreme form, allegations involve a conspiracy of a worldwide SRA organization that includes the wealthy and powerful of the world elite in which children are abducted or bred for sacrifices, pornography and prostitution.

[Ms. Toad]

11. Then there's the Catholic Church . . .

A pretty far-reaching conspiracy of pedophiles (and pedophile enablers).

[jberryhill]

15. Yep

Proven, well-documented, and tons of evidence.

Very much unlike the ones in currency on the left and right, and of which persons in both camps are certain.

[Ms. Toad]

28. Agreed.

But, as to Epstein, we are at the stage of investigation that the investigation of the Catholic Church was in before we had the well-documented tons of evidence. The investigatin has to start somewhere - and until victims start to speak up (at the stage we're in now) it can often seem like a wild conspiracy theory. Same with Sandusky - which is actually more akin to Epstein than the Catholic Church abuse was. When those victims started to speak up no one believed them, either.

That seems different to me than pizzagate, in which no one - to my knowledge - has claimed to be a victim. Somewhat different from the Franklin scandal, as well, in which - although there were people who claimed to be victims, their stories were not credible enough to lead to conviction of any of the accused.

The allegations against Epstein (and Trump) are credible enough - given Trump's known history - that I will not be surprised if they are true. Now, I would be more surprised if they turn out to be true AND convince any of his acolytes to turn against him.

[True Blue American]

44. Many, many

Last edited Sun Jul 21, 2019, 04:52 PM - Edit history (1)

More women have come forth since the Epstein charges were filed. They will also implicate others.

Epstein skated the last time, thanks to corrupt Prosecutors and Acosta. It will not be so easy this time.

I really hope they go after the Attorneys. Barr should have lost his license after the Iran/ Contra cover up.

[jberryhill]

45. How many of them have mentioned Trump?

[jberryhill]

48. That's not really correct

There were plenty of victims of priest abuse speaking out.

"and until victims start to speak up"

And that's kind of what gets me in this. Several of Epstein's victims have been speaking out.

Those victims are ignored by DUers because the Epstein victims who have been speaking out do not confirm the wider speculation (such as the "Katie Johnson" thing).

Moreover that Epstein went after young teenage girls is an established fact, not merely an allegation. While the deal made with him previously is atrocious, it did include him pleading guilty - and many years ago. So, it's not some "recent allegation" concerning Epstein. it is a long established fact.

[Ms. Toad]

51. I misunderstood your earlier post -

I thought you were suggesting the entire Eptstein thing was in the same vein as the wild conspiracy theories.

Sometimes, unfortunately, it takes years of speaking out before anything is done (or anything beyond the tip of the iceberg). The victims of priests were speaking out - but it took years until they reached a critical mass it was (1) discounted or (2) treated as an isolated cases. The reports about the priests started in the 80s, and didn't gain sufficient mass to be taken as more than isolated incidents until the 90s - and it was another decade before the Catholic Church formally took notice and started investigating.

It's not entirely comparable, but the timeline from is consistent with earlier reports against Epstein being swept under the rug with a relatively minor conviction - until now when it seems the SDNY may be willing to pick up the rug and see what, and who, is hiding there.

You are absolutely correct, though, about DU frequently being just as inclined as people on the right to latch onto much wilder conspiracies about all sorts of things - including about Epstein.

[jberryhill]

67. "the entire Epstein thing"

I'm pretty sure that phrase means different things to different people.

[Ms. Toad]

82. Agreed. n/t

[Kingofalldems]

63. Best buddies:

[jberryhill]

66. Yes, and?

I realize you are simply going to accuse me of being a troll, just as you did when you stuck up for "The Great Michael Avenatti" as you called him (while again accusing me of being a troll).

But what, in your mind, does this video prove?

[Arazi]

22. No disagreement from me altho the QAnon folks do seem a bit crazier

The certainty of the belief that there's pedophilia at the top of the opposing political party is pretty striking.

I'm waiting and watching but typically where there's smoke there's fire (and Jeffrey Epstein is definitely a raging dumpster fire)

[jberryhill]

69. Those Q people are right round the bend

But I suppose getting there is a process.

DU has a habit of falling for every flim-flam that comes down the pike - Snowden, Assange, Manning, Mensch, Greenwald, Avenatti... the list goes on and on.

You'd think that after a while, some folks would ask themselves, "Why do I keep buying into bullshit with such certainty?"

[rusty fender]

74. You left out Mueller and

Fitzmas

[jberryhill]

75. Ah, Fitzmas

The never-ending magical belief in a "silver bullet".

[nini]

6. I feel the same.. reminds me of Al Capone

He'll end up going down for something else in the end.

As long as he is taken away I don't care what it is.

[Scarsdale]

65. The REALLY sad part of this entire fiasco

is that a democratic president would have been taken down long ago for any one of tRump's misdeeds. Oh, well, we (D)'s can't help it if we vote for fine, upstanding, intelligent, ADULTS to represent us. The (R)'s scraped the very bottom, if not underneath their barrel to get tRump. He is the most unqualified person ever to run for office. His taint will stick to the (R)'s for years to come.

[nini]

83. For sure

If one of our own even thought of farting in the wind they'd be on trial.

[stopdiggin]

8. without evidence, there is no reason to speculate reactions (nt)

[Buckeyeblue]

10. Maybe. Is Epstein prepared to testify to all of this?

Trump will promise him a pardon if he keeps him out of it. Epstein will be found guilty, sentenced to a prison sentence that is effectively life. But the pardon will never come. At that point, it will be too late for him to be believable.

If Epstein doesn't agree, he has an accident while in custody and doesn't make it to trial.

Epstein must agree to Trump's terms and then slip the testimony in unexpectedly.

This whole presidency is nothing but a spy novel.

[Cyrano]

14. NY and other states can bring their own charges. A Prez pardon won't work.

However, Epstein really does require the maximum protection available. It goes without saying that there are many who would like/need to see him gone.

[Buckeyeblue]

19. He will never get a pardon

He may be promised one. But Trump--and others-- wants him put away. He knows too much and seems to be a little reckless.

[AJT]

12. His base won't see him as a pedophile. The girls will be labeled as consenting

teenagers. When I was living in Mississippi our neighbor's daughter got pregnant at 13 and they married her off to the 36 year old father without blinking an eye. The only way I see his base as turning on him is if there are tapes. Seeing him raping these girls is different that an abstract idea of him "having consensual sex" with underage girls.

[trev]

35. It was a teenage wedding and the old folks

wished them well....

Chuck Barry, "You Never Can Tell"

[Martin Eden]

13. "an accusation like pedophilia would be too much"

It will take much more than an accusation of pedophilia; credible proof is needed.

Trump has already been credibly accused of sexual assault by his victims, but that hasn't budged the needle with the MAGA crowd (including evangelicals).

[Locrian]

85. exactly

otherwise it's just "fake news"
short of actual posted video evidence - and even that will be called faked

and even that "fake news" is just code for: I don't care as long as it pisses the "libtards off
at this point it's not a "factual" problem - it's that they only care about maintaining trump as their "power"

[Mr.Bill]

16. A video of Trump raping children

would only raise his status as the ultimate alpha male to his supporters.

[qazplm135]

18. if someone ratted him out yea

but almost no one does. Ever. I don't know what crossroads demon deal with the devil Trump did, but he lives despite absolutely violating every rule about eating or exercising...and he avoids any consequences for his acts despite such a large myriad number of criminal acts crossing decades and literally every part of the criminal and civil codes.

Normally you built up at least some enemies willing to take you down, particularly when you are bad as he is, but somehow, someway, nothing sticks and very few folks are willing to stick out and say anything, and the ones that do are as bad as he is so no one listens much.

[Cyrano]

27. Perhaps Mr. Cholesterol will lay him low

[trev]

36. Antichrist?

[qazplm135]

53. nah

Antichrist would be more competent by far.

[trev]

71. LOL

[shraby]

23. trump won't pardon epstein. He'd never be able to justify it. Not in a

million years.

epstein's fate in prison is fore-ordained. Even in the worst of prisons, pedophiles are on the bottom of the bottom and have to watch the soap at all times.

[LakeArenal]

24. Nah. Caging children doesn't do it.

Neither will that.

[KentuckyWoman]

25. We can hope but I doubt it.

He's a horrible person who knows how to cover himself. I think he walks on this too.

[secondwind]

26. He lusted after his own daughter, when she was a teenager.. you speak the truth!

[Collimator]

47. What he said about Ivanka. . .

"If she wasn't my daughter, I'd probably be dating her." That should have been a red flag to anyone associating with him to clear out and maintain distance.

I don't claim to know what--if anything--is really going on there; but who the hell says something like that, on the public record, about their own child?!

Even a hardcore pedophile with half a brain doesn't make pronouncements like that out loud in front of everybody.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

31. The Magats I know here in red country do not

care what he did before prez.

Have thought about that some..how is he getting his sexual fix? Mara Lago? If yes, we need some infiltrators. Like wait staff who caught Romney.
Guess people would just blame Malaria

[bucolic_frolic]

32. Until someone actually prosecutes him for it

nothing is going to happen. So let's concentrate on the practical nuts and bolts between here and there.

[Loki Liesmith]

33. Get Trump's investments with Epstein if any

As blackmailing into investing with him those he caught on tape with his girls seems to be how his firm made its money.

[redstateblues]

34. Wishful thinking.

Any concrete proof would already be out there

[Cyrano]

37. Give it time. Concrete doesn't float. Shit does.

[Joinfortmill]

38. joinfortmill

I agree. We are about to witness some real ugly, people.

[jmowreader]

39. Unfortunately...

“Democraps love pedophilia! They didn’t investigate Hitlery over Pizzagate. Everyone knows the terrible things that were done to innocent children in the basement of that pizza parlor. You were okay with that so it’s obvious this is just another witch hunt against our great president. MAGA! Trump 2020!”

Yes folks, many of Trump’s biggest fans are really that stupid.

[defacto7]

40. In the long term yes. In the short term probably not.

[Cyrano]

41. As Yoda would say: "Strong is the stupid in this place."

[Iggo]

42. It had better.

I'm really losing faith in my fellow Americans.

[Cyrano]

49. "Patience and time." -- (Leo Tolstoy: "War and Peace")

[DallasNE]

43. There Is Already That One Clip

Showing Epstein and Trump at Mar-A-Largo with what is described as cheerleaders where Trump grabs one of them around the waist, pulls her back sharply then swats her butt with his right hand. Odds are that there are more photos showing even worse stuff and people are just waiting for the right time to release them.

[alittlelark]

46. I would guess Epstein has a 'Dead Mans Switch'

Most ppl think he is primarily a blackmailer. As such his life would be at great risk if he did not have a dead mans switch - likely many backups as well. My guess is that those he is blackmailing know full well about it.

It will be interesting to see who does what during this time. tRump could pardon him, but crimes here in New Mexico are not pardonable, and his ranch here had many young girls.

[FakeNoose]

73. We don't know that Epstein is blackmailing, but he doesn't seem to have a real job

He claims to own investment companies and nobody knows what the companies are doing. The only wealthy client he had was Wexler who (supposedly) cut him off 10 years ago when Epstein was convicted in Florida. OK so he owns very expensive properties in the US and Europe, he has an island in the Caribbeans, he flies his own jet ... where is the money coming from?

It's all a mystery, and people are starting to make suppositions. Who knew there was so much profit in owning a modeling agency? Well there isn't, unless you turn your models into sex slaves and kompromat creators. If that's the case then yeah, Epstein must have quite a collection of photos, videos, and other documents stored away on his island.

BTW I don't believe he'll get a pardon from Chump on any federal convictions. Whatever NYS convictions Epstein might get, Chump can't pardon him for anyway.

[Javaman]

50. I would like to think that, but his moron supporters will rationalize even that. nt

[NCjack]

52. The Dynamic Duo -- McConnell and Bar -- will protect him thru a 2nd term IF

we fail to defeat him at ballot box.

[Locrian]

86. correct

If the gop wanted to - they could take him down any time.

trump will only go down when their finished with him
He's too useful at passing extreme agenda - even with all his gaffs.
And they're building a base now: A vocal Brownshirt - white supremacist base to insure that the country stays far right and counter any progressive ideas like healthcare, climate change, etc

Of course they're playing a dangerous game - but they really don't care as long as they maintain power.

[Wounded Bear]

54. Too many of his base want to be just like him...

[uponit7771]

55. Nah, MAGA occultist will blame the children

[yaesu]

61. it wouldn't surprise me if MAGA's offered up their young daughters to their god tRump.nt

[appleannie1]

56. I hope you are right but would be willing to bet a fair percentage of his base think

that is normal family bonding.

[Dan]

57. I remember reading a charging document

somewhere, where Epstein and Trump were arguing about which of them would take the cherry of the 13 year old girl (the one that accused Trump of rape, but later withdrawn...you can speculate on the reasons) - but Trump subsequently won (if you can call it that).

Wish I could remember where I read the document....

[PufPuf23]

58. What if Epstein is a long time intelligence asset who manages honeypots

to entrap and blackmail powerful men?

This does not mean Epstein is not a pedophile himself but that he is an expert at manipulating underaged girls and identifying, befriending, influencing, and maintaining blackmail targets.

Eager to see how far the investigation goes and the impacts or whether there is a premature and incomplete conclusion.

Trump loves this shit and is thick with Epstein (as he was with Casablancas of Elite Models.).

[Kingofalldems]

62. Great post.

Too bad the thread hijackers stepped in.

I do believe Trump is involved with Epstein.

[Victor_c3]

64. Not to be a downer, but we've seen how pedophilia, republican candidates, and their base mix

Look at Roy Moore. The republicans didn’t care and still voted for that asshole.

[DangerousRhythm]

70. I truly hope you're right, but...

I don’t have too much faith in the process anymore. I feel all I can do is vote and convince others to vote, too. ☹️

[doc03]

72. I think if there was a video of Trump raping a 1 year old his base

would say it was faked.

[Guilded Lilly]

76. I'm to a point where I believe the low level of humanity of his...

followers can always get worse. There is no bottom level for him.
History won’t be kind to him or his heinous supporters.
But it will also be unforgiving of those who could do something and chose not to.

Whatever breaks this man, I hope it happens today.

[lordsummerisle]

77. Is it possible for Barr to quash this investigation? n/t

[Polybius]

79. Is there hard evidence linking Trump to Epstein's underage girls?

Your post strongly implies that there is, however nothing is proven or even close to being proven yet. I know they were friends, but Epstein had a lot of rich friends. Is every one of them guilty of pedophilia?

[jberryhill]

81. Faith is belief in things unseen

[The Wizard]

87. How many of those children

at the border are being sold to human traffickers?

[Kingofalldems]

88. Kick this one.

[Eyeball_Kid]

89. Trumpy had a modeling agency. Underage girls from Europe.

Some were assigned to attend Epstein's parties. Some of the parties were thrown to engage in prospective clients for real estate deals. The girls were enticements. Trumpy was a major player in a sex trafficking network.

[Hotler]

91. I agree. I think there is a deep, wide and dark ugly river dirtiness underneath the Epstein case.

And if there is true sunshine cast upon it we will find lots of powerful and rich people. I could be a shock to the nation.

[mwooldri]

92. Is that why his supporters are saying "But Bill Clinton..."?

Or is there something unsavory that we need to know? Methinks it's the RWNJ's trying to cover someone's ass...

[Pantagruel]

93. You overate the integrity of "Trump women"

"Many of his MAGAs would probably stick with Trump even if he ate a live kitten on camera. But I believe there are MAGAs, especially the women, for whom an accusation like pedophilia would be too much. "

Infidelity and predatory behavior didn't move them but you think pedophilia will-I seriously doubt it.

[Texin]

94. Sadly, Cyrano, I don't think so.

There is no bottom with his *base*. They'll follow him anywhere. And there are enough people out here in the hinterlands that don't vote at all. Never have never will. I just don't have the conviction that he can be "voted" out of office. And as long as William Barr is AG, there will be no legal glove that will ever personally touch this psychopath because Barr will not allow any Federal Prosecutor to proceed.

[smirkymonkey]

95. I'm not going to hold my breath.

I have no idea how someone so stupid and incompetent manages to be such a successful criminal.

[bloom]

96. See: Donald Trump & Jeffrey Epstein Rape Lawsuit and Affidavits

https://www.scribd.com/doc/316341058/Donald-Trump-Jeffrey-Epstein-Rape-Lawsuit-and-Affidavits?fbclid=IwAR15FJJTOkYQoxcNmocDJZEH8vQUCpCbsgsR5OKxVsyuQi3RvZkTqFx1m1E

[certainot]

98. turned limbaugh on for a bit and guess what. he associated epstien with democrats only

mentioning the clintons and other high donation democrats - no mention of republicans.....

happens limbaugh is a palm beach guy too! and a friend of trump's!

do you think epstien can reduce his sentence by enough to make it worth his while? he's in his mid sixties so i guess if he can get it down to 10 years he might cooperate, but would hius victims go for a 10 years sentence? i suppose it's not up to them but there might be some outrage.

[Blue_Tires]

99. I wouldn't count on it...

The way things are going, Trump could be on video molesting a child and all that means is the next day the GOP and Fox News start normalizing pederasty among their cult, just like how they've normalized everything else.

[Kablooie]

101. But Barr has control of the evidence...

And he is sure to block any evidence that Trump was involved.
Trump may go down for this but not during his presidency.