Nasa chief fired as Trump administration wants moon landing to occur during his 2nd term

[Demovictory9]

This is dictator type stuff

https://news.yahoo.com/nasa-chief-fired-trump-administration-140743406.html

Nasa chief fired as Trump administration vents frustration over moon landing delays
The Independent
Christian Davenport
,The Independent•July 12, 2019

The sudden removal of Nasa’s head of human exploration William Gerstenmaier on Wednesday is a clear sign the White House is increasingly frustrated with the agency’s efforts to return humans to the surface of the moon by 2024.

Donald Trump‘s administration is laser-focused on that date, which would come during a second term of his presidency, should he be re-elected.

But despite the mandate, Nasa has continued to struggle with delays and cost overruns that have threatened the programme.

And the ousting of one of the longest-serving stalwarts in the agency shows how far the White House and Nasa’s politically appointed leadership are willing to go towards disrupting Nasa and attempting to break through the bureaucracy many think has stilted its exploration efforts for years.

In March Mike Pence, the US vice president, fired the first warning shot, announcing a new, expedited timeline for Nasa’s moon landing plans.

Instead of getting humans there by 2028, he said, its new charge would be within five years. He put Nasa leaders on notice, saying if they could not complete the mission, they would be held accountable.

[Liberal In Texas]

2. The hurry up and launch mindset is what killed 3 astronauts on Apollo 1.

The people doing the science should be deciding how soon a mission should happen.

This is nothing more than some sort of "win" for the Siberian Candidate. WTF would he say if the mission killed the crew?

This is insane.

[DavidDvorkin]

8. Yes

Exactly right.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

12. What would he say if the mission killed the crew ?

He'd so what he always does: He'd lie, he point fingers, he'd assess blame on everyone else.

[Demovictory9]

44. he would deny that he pushed for the launch date regardless of documentation to the contrary

[JI7]

56. blame Obama and mexicans

[Haggis for Breakfast]

70. And Hillary's emails.

[RHMerriman]

23. And, arguably, both Challenger and Columbia were lost because of operational decisions that

And, arguably, both Challenger and Columbia were lost because of operational decisions that either pushed the designs pst their safety envelopes, designs flaw that were known and never addressed, or both...

[mnmoderatedem]

58. additionally, regarding the Challenger

the NASA engineers were unanimously opposed to the launch, due to unseasonably cold weather that particular day, by Florida standards. The potential risk to the O Ring explosion was what was feared by launching in that weather and that's exactly what happened. But the pressure to launch ASAP superseded safety.

I'd say we should learn from our mistakes, but cripes, we're talking about the Trump administration here.

[rampartc]

51. i was thinking of the challenger

launch had to be a prop for Reagan state of the union despite weather conditions in florida.

if there is a strategic reason to risk lives and money i'm ok. domestic politics not so much.

[eppur_se_muova]

61. Not to mention the Challenger disaster -- specifically due to WH pressure for a billion-$$$ photo-op

Truly, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[SunSeeker]

3. So we don't have the resources to give caged kids soap, but we're going to the moon for no reason?

[sheshe2]

11. Good point, SunSeeker.

Didn't we already do the moon? I seem to remember that we did. I watched as a kid.

Donnie has nothing better to do than golf and mooning us. What is the point of all this? I don't get it.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

15. The point, sheshe2, is that Spanky is desperate

to have ANYTHING to point to that says his administration had AN accomplishment. Because, even after 2 and 1/2 years, he's still got nothing. And he's NEVER going to get a second term and he knows it.

[AJT]

36. Been there, done that

It's not a breakthrough of any sort.

[SunSeeker]

40. Yes, we already went to the moon, over 50 years ago. Why go again?

How about we spend our money combatting climate change instead, so we can continue to live on EARTH?

[Demovictory9]

45. Trump wants to tweet "American astronauts just landed on the moon. thank you Mr. President"

"we have never done this before I was president. Obama didn't do it. blah blah blah"

[brewens]

54. But, but.. all that back in the 70's was a hoax! Everyone knows that. Trump taking us to the moon

would be a spectacular, YUGE, accomplishment!

[onecaliberal]

4. What are they going to do? Kill them? Yeah, that will get you to the moon.

The irony of breathtakingly stupid people putting unrealistic demands on rocket scientists.

[rampartc]

52. +1

[RHMerriman]

5. Gerstenmaier actually understands system engineering and program management;

Last edited Fri Jul 12, 2019, 11:45 PM - Edit history (2)

Gerstenmaier actually understands system engineering and program management.

Bridenstine/Pence/Trump just want a stunt, because Trump is dying for anything that can be labelled an accomplishment. In March, the Administration cut the development time for a human return to the Moon by 48 months, from a target date of 2028 to 2024. Gerstenmaier was one of those who argued it could be done, reasonably safely, by 2028.

2024 is unrealistic, at best.

Looks like Ken Bowersox, a former astronaut and aerospace industry exec is in; he's probably promised Trump they can do a flags and footprints mission by 2024, which is - aggressive - to say the least. The launch vehicle doesn't exist, the lunar lander doesn't exist, and the command and service module has been tested, without a crew, in low earth orbit and safely recovered exactly once.

[link:http://nasawatch.com/archives/2019/07/bill-gerstenmai-1.html#more|]

Basically, this is the result of Gerstenmaier telling Trump et al that waving their hands and saying "Moon!" doesn't create the capability of landing a crew on the Lunar surface and returning the safely to the Earth, much less creating the systems, spacecraft, and infrastructure to achieve much of anything significant once on the Moon in terms of research work.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

16. Perfectly said, dear Merriman.

[RHMerriman]

19. You are very welcome...

You are very welcome.

Setting aside any question of the overall policy directive, it's pretty clear Gerstenmaier is one of the experts telling Trump want he (Trump) does not want to hear.

Trump and his superstitious fellow travelers, most of whom have never invented, researched, designed, engineered, or built anything more demanding than a mixed drink, are going to put lives at risk.

[Volaris]

66. 'The launch vehicle doesn't exist'

I was just going to ask how the hell they're supposed to get back up there ...

Oh ya, that's right..'America's great-ness' is also rocket fuel now.

I hope all of NASA just outright refuses to attempt this, and says so publicly...from the admin staff all the way down to the peeps who clean the bathrooms.

'the launch vehicle DOESNT EXIST.'

Donnie has THE BEST brain, tho...WAAAAAY better than all those dumb libtard NASA guys.

[Takket]

6. good luck finding an Astronaught willing to get on that ship.......

no one is volunteering for a hastily thrown together mission designed to placate a dictators ego.

[sheshe2]

14. I got it. I got it!

We send trump and his hatchlings there and have engine failure and they will remain there forevermore.

Hey Houston? Problem solved.

[raccoon]

55. You beat me to the post. Nt

[fescuerescue]

18. There would be no shortage.

Astronauts are like that.

John Glenn's Mercury/Atlas had a 40% chance of exploding on launch. 40%. And he did it anyway. American Hero I say.

But we don't need to put peoples lives at risk just to satisfy Trump's ego.

[Ghost Dog]

50. "designed to placate a dictators ego" - ¡Bingo!

In 2024 the dictator intends to either be running for and assured of a third term or to have simply decreed no further elections.

The Reconquest of (America's) Moon and the American Space Command will be part of the new Emperor's show, as will be, probably, the use of tactical nukes and compulsory citizens' digital ID by then.

I think he intends to go full-Mussolini.

[rampartc]

53. there is never a shortage of young men willing to risk their lives

you just may not get the smartest or fittest volunteer for a mission with such low level of confidence,

[watoos]

7. What's the rush?

Why not go in Trump's 3rd term?

[Dan]

9. I think that if Trump gets a second term

We as a people should do everything we can to encourage ‘Dear Leader’ to be the first POTUS to step on the moon - with the next trip there. Encourage him and tell him, just imagine what the history books would say. If he forces this though and is willing to ride that rocket to the moon then I will vote for him to have a third term.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

10. Another tantrum by the dotard

[Rhiannon12866]

13. I thought he wanted to go to Mars during this term

I think that's a much better idea, please send him ASAP!

[sheshe2]

20. Hell is hotter.

May he roast in hell.

[Rhiannon12866]

28. I figured since he demanded it now, why not grant him his wish??

I realize that NASA would require a few more decades to perfect bringing any earthlings to and from Mars, but since Trump has insisted they get it done before the next election, I'm sure he'd be more than willing to volunteer.

[sheshe2]

30. Bwahahaha.

Miss ya in MIRT.

[Rhiannon12866]

49. Awww! Thanks so much!

I sure miss you, too - but I am keeping my eyes open, just can't help myself.

[fescuerescue]

17. I would strongly welcome a return to the moon

and I'm saddened that we gave it up 50ish years ago.

And frankly I'm glad that Trump is apparently putting it as NASA priority. Stopped clock is right sometimes.

But 5 years is -ridiculous-. An entire industry needs to be spun up. We can't even build a clean sheet automobile in 5 years. In the case of Apollo, Kennedy gave us 8 years, but we already had 5 years in the rearview as much of the Saturn V was well underway.

We need to go back to the moon, but we need do in a way that makes sense and doesn't get a bunch of people killed for his ego.

[Demovictory9]

46. Trump doesn't have the ability to think long term, to plan for events that might happen after he's

out of office or even after his lifetime, to plan for projects that benefit people who are not born yet. He can only think about himself.

[Stallion]

21. This Feels Like Deja Vu All over Again

Trump would inevitably claim that he is greatest President of all time because he got Man to the moon in 5 years and it took Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon 10 years

[smirkymonkey]

39. When it's already been done before, what is the accomplishment?

He (his administration) is just reapplying technology that has already been proven. They aren't going beyond.

[fescuerescue]

62. To be fair here

If we are going to go beyond our accomplishments in 1969 - we are going to have to repeat those accomplishments first.

We can't do it in one or two terms anymore than Kennedy could. We have to get ourselves back to 1969 levels of human space flight ability THEN go beyond it.

We junked an entire industry and a furloughed a generation of engineers. To rebuild all that will take lots of time. To rebuild it requires retracing some of the success of prior generations.

Trump doesn't have enough time to even just reapply the technology in 5 years. It would have to be done by his successor, and then moving beyond it to say Mars...well that will be by his successors successor or beyond.


Maybe that's what makes manned space flight so hard. It's always going to be a multiple administration accomplishment and it takes a President who is willing to make a hero of the likely opposite party. (i.e. Kennedy setting up Nixon and skipping Johnson)

[ProudLib72]

22. Well Donwald, we have a cardboard refrigerator box and a bunch of leftover fireworks

If you want to volunteer for the mission.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

24. If they can hurry up and send Trump to the moon I'd be fine with that

as long as they leave him there.

[sheshe2]

25. What second term? nt

[sandensea]

27. +1

In Ft. Leavenworth, they must mean.

[sheshe2]

29. Ha!

Love it. Along with his ilk.

Jail House Rock!

[sandensea]

32. Ojala and knock wood

These con men and perverts deserve it.

Personally, I don't think Cheeto - with his 300 lbs. and 239 cholesterol - will live long enough to see jail time.

But Ivanka and Prince Jared are still very young.

Ten bucks say they flee to Dubai in 2021.

[sheshe2]

34. Good call. Dubai.

Russia is to cold for them.

Though they will be welcomed with open arms in either place.

[sandensea]

38. Yeah. They'll have lots of friends to share all those kleptocrat stories with.

"And then I told papá: 'not on top of the money, daddy - I'll have to get it laundered!' "

[sheshe2]

41. OMG!

[sandensea]

26. No chance

The aliens already there would never allow a Cheeto-led incursion.

Can't say I blame them. They know who they're dealing with.

[triron]

31. Send Trump to the moon permanently.

[Cracklin Charlie]

33. Can not wait to see this price tag.

How about the president goes first?

[struggle4progress]

35. "We'll have a big military parade on the moon with the newest Sherman tanks!"

[greyl]

37. It's NASA.

"Nasa" is wrong, and all of sudden reminds me of "Nazi".

[snort]

43. A capsule full of dead astronauts should do the trick.

America's first all hispanic space mission could get his base fired up. Think of the deportation jokes they can enjoy.

[TeamPooka]

47. They are going to kill some astronauts. nt

[Beartracks]

57. "A lot of people don't know the moon has a dark side..."

"There's a side of the moon that never faces the sun. It's on the back of the moon. Which is part of Mars. Exciting stuff, people. These NASA guys are smart, smart people. Not as smart as me, of course, which is why I'm the President, you know, but still... Pretty smart. Pretty talented. And moon rocks! We hope to bring back some moon rocks, which has never been done before. Wouldn't you like to have a moon rock? I know i would. Brave Americans, flying all the way to the moon! Maybe I could go along, too. What do you think? Take this beautiful, incredibly beautiful American flag up there (steps to side and hugs flag). Hey, mybe we need a Trump golf course up there, too. Y'know? What do you think?ǹ
=========

[tanyev]

59. Jared will do a little internet research and then he can take over.

[Demovictory9]

68. exactly.

[PA Democrat]

60. I nominate Ivanka to lead Trump's lunar mission.

Maybe NASA could design a special spacesuit with ruffles.

[malaise]

63. Send the Con to the moon

What a fool with delusions of grandeur

[rockfordfile]

64. Trump will be gone by then. Trump should be in jail now.

[dalton99a]

65. Kim Jong-Un's pro tip: "You REALLY want something done? Threaten them with the death penalty."

[spanone]

67. Safety is not their concern, political expediency is.

[misanthrope]

69. This thread points to Trump's ego but I didn't see mention of the other chief motivation

This is being done to divert funding away from NASA's climate change-related science. Actual right-wing power brokers who empower Trump don't care about his ego. They care about continuing the status quo, about maintaining their power. Possible exploitation of natural resources would be a distant concern but mostly it is about making sure people are distracted.