Do Trump/ICE raids equal Kristallnacht?

[woodsprite]

Hadn't registered in my mind until just now triggered by a recent pic.

"Also known as The Night of the Broken Glass. On this night, November 9, 1938, almost 200 synagogues were destroyed, over 8,000 Jewish shops were sacked and looted, and tens of thousands of Jews were removed to concentration camps."

[MineralMan]

1. Hmm...perhaps...

[brooklynite]

2. You're not going to like this answer: there's nothing illegal or improper about what ICE is doing...

I'll admit that Trump is engaging in symbolic action to rev up his base. BUT, unless yoo endorse a policy of open borders, then these people don't have a right to be in the Country AND have all been through the judicial process. ICE is picking up and deporting people for whom the Courts have issued deportation orders.

[bigbrother05]

3. While that may be true, it's the scope of the action that's frightening

Their clear intent is to terrorize not only the targets, but the entire immigrant community.

Sweeping raids that will likely result in collateral injuries or deaths across the country is a message to even the documented aliens to keep their heads down.

Given the numbers they will be looking for, how many mistakes (i.e. similar names, old addresses, etc.) will drag innocents into this disaster?

[TheRealNorth]

5. There was nothing illegal about Kristalnacht either

Hitler and the Nazis had stripped Jews of any rights by then.

Once you start playing the "well, it's not illegal" game, we have already lost because one way or the other, they will make it legal.

[hack89]

8. People with judicial deportation orders have no right to stay

what rights are they being deprived of?

[TheRealNorth]

11. The right

Not to be stuffed in cages like the Nazis stuffed the Jews in train cars.

[hack89]

22. Hopefully they are taken straight to the airport.

I agree there is no need to prolong the process.

[TheRealNorth]

24. Cool story, bro

Hope you get on the plane too.

[hack89]

31. How do you think they deport people?

How hard is it to have a plane ready to go? Not like they haven’t had plenty of time to plan this.

[lame54]

6. Legal cause they say it is - they can't dictate what is proper...

Your response disgusts me

[jcgoldie]

17. +1

[brooklynite]

21. Bask to the first point: do you support an open border policy where anyone can come and stay?

If so, your policy is inconsistent with every Democratic office holder.

If not, how do you propose to enforce the laws on the books? Again, these people have all had immigration hearings and have all been ordered to be be deported.

[obamanut2012]

14. Kristalnacht was legal

[backscatter712]

15. Illegal, no. Improper, yes.

ICE has become the fist of the new Jim Crow. There's nothing proper or decent about what they do.

[Thomas Hurt]

26. The Conservative morality: If it isn't illegal it is moral, now lets repeal laws and regs...

to make more things moral.

[comradebillyboy]

4. It's easy to over do the Nazi parallels.

[TheRealNorth]

12. Are you waiting until you wake up one morning

And when they're all wearing swastikas, and then you will be comfortable with calling them fascists?

Granted there are different degrees to their actions and what our responses should be, but to not see the parallels is willing blindness.

[backscatter712]

16. Yep. The Nazis didn't go all the way to murdering 12 million people overnight.

They built up to it.

So yes, I'd say we're about the same place as Germany was in about 1933 or so. The death count wasn't in the millions yet at the time - they were still in the deport-the-Jews phase. The "showers" and ovens came later.

[Igel]

20. A lot of people sound like Soviet revolutionaries did c. 1906.

That doesn't mean that in 12 years they're going to take over the US and in 23 years we'll start purges.

[Turin_C3PO]

25. We're a lot closer to 30s Germany

than 1906 Russia. There’s currently not a communist threat but there damn sure is a fascist one. But I think you know that.

[Thomas Hurt]

28. Trump and his admin have nothing to with Nazis...

Nazis were of a certain time and place in history.

Trump is a modern day American fascist.

A fear mongering, scapegoating, racist, misogynistic, religion co-opting, militaristic, ultranationalist, fascist.

[hack89]

7. No. ICE has been arresting and deporting people for a very long time. nt

[highplainsdem]

9. No.

[dixiegrrrrl]

10. The round-ups occured before and after Kristallnacht, all over the country

so that comparison is somewhat limited to a single event.

Another "night" that we could see repeated in history is Night of the Long Knives.

The purge of Nazi leaders by Adolf Hitler on June 30, 1934. Fearing that the paramilitary SA had become too powerful, Hitler ordered his elite SS guards to murder the organization's leaders, including Ernst Röhm.
Also killed that night were hundreds of other perceived opponents of Hitler.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Night-of-the-Long-Knives

[Celerity]

36. Who would be the targets in a Night of the Long Knives redux?

Trump, to duplicate that, would have to go after Rethugs, not Dems, as it was an internal Nazi purging. Only thing (and it is not totally congruous) I could think of would be military leaders who were tested and refused to go along with a true Rump/Rethug military coup that would install him as dictator for life (to be followed by Ivanka perhaps).

[dixiegrrrrl]

37. I see the closest similarity to the Brownshirts that hitler purged

as the right-wing armed groups, which, at this point, trump still sees as helpful goons.

[Celerity]

39. Well, the Sturmabteilung had 3 million members at its peak, and were a fullblown paramilitary force.

The ragtag neo-nazis and white power/nationalist scum (the 'organised' ones), in the US are nowhere near as numerous and certainly not equal in organisation and military power. Their threat level to overthrowing Rump (the SA was deffo a threat to having a coup versus Hitler, as the official army, the Reichswehr, was limited to only 100,000 standing members) pales in comparison.

[TheRealNorth]

13. Good point

I mean, this is political theater that is trying to get people "used to" these sudden raids and round-ups of "undesirables". Its not like they couldn't accomplish the same goal of arresting the undocumented immigrants over a longer period of time.

[Raine]

18. No nt

[Everyman Jackal]

19. No

One difference is that some cities I don't know how many are refusing to give ICE any help which is their right under the Constitution.

[AncientGeezer]

23. No

[Va Lefty]

27. No, but I'll reserve final judgement

[Thomas Hurt]

29. It isn't Kristallnacht, but it is fascist.

[bearsfootball516]

30. No

[Sneederbunk]

32. No.

[Behind the Aegis]

33. No.

Stench of appropriation.

[JI7]

34. +

[DeminPennswoods]

35. Similar to the Palmer Raids of the 1920s

when Americans were terrified of immigrants after a bombing on Wall Street said to carried out by Italian anarchists.

As I understand it, there were also regular raids on homes of Italians and Germans during WWII because of fear they would somehow signal Germany and Italy.

[UniteFightBack]

38. Why would you even make this comparison??? Why is this even a question? nt