AOC's Chief-Of-Staff Wears T-Shirt Featuring Nazi Collaborator

[George II]

https://forward.com/fast-forward/427361/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-nazi-adolf-hitler-subhas-chandra-bose/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Main

The Jewish Forward - News That Matters To American Jews

(JTA) — The chief of staff for Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., is under fire for wearing a T-shirt bearing the image of a Nazi collaborator.

Saikat Chakrabarti is seen wearing the green shirt in a video that aired in December on NowThis News about Ocasio-Cortez’s surprise congressional victory the previous month.

The shirt features a sketch of Subhas Chandra Bose, a dissident Indian nationalist recognized by Adolf Hitler as the leader of the Free India Government. In exchange, Bose enlisted tens of thousands of Indian men to support the Japanese invasion of British India in 1944 and help fight the British in Europe for Hitler. The Indian Legion Bose raised for Germany trained as a regiment of the SS.

He also broadcast propaganda for Hitler on a radio network set up by Bose to encourage Indians to fight for freedom. Bose met with Hitler in Germany in 1942.

(more.....)

[hlthe2b]

1. This guy is REALLY bad news. AOC is really really foolish not to ditch him without delay.

[Wounded Bear]

2. Strange heroes...

[dalton99a]

3. Evidently his knowledge of American and world history is limited

Prior to this job, he was basically a computer nerd working in Bernie's shop

[Maru Kitteh]

45. A Bernie staffer eh? That explains a bit.

[madaboutharry]

4. Saikat Chakrabarti is quickly becoming a liability.

AOC has an opportunity to show true leadership skills by firing him.

[awesomerwb1]

6. She should've shown that leadership by not hiring him to begin with

Chief of staff? lol Any pics of him wearing a Maduro or Pablo Escobar t shirt as well?

[George II]

11. He was probably hoping that no one would have recognized the face, but the Jewish Forward....

....is on top of all these defamatory stories.

[BeyondGeography]

5. This is deteriorating fast

Someone send him a Queen Victoria t-shirt. Quick.

[TexasTowelie]

165. A Victoria's Secret t-shirt would work in a pinch. nt

[marble falls]

7. The self victim of extremely superficial historical learning. He needs to resign ...

with a sincere mea culpa.

[brush]

8. He's a problem. AOC has a decision to make. He's the one who tweeted that the...

certain other Dems are like the segregationists from the 40s.

He's a problem.

[George II]

10. Yes, the certain other BLACK Democrats are like the southern Democrats of the 1940s.

[mcar]

9. Gee, not too subtle with his message there, is he?

[NYMinute]

12. OMG nt

[Igel]

20. Context matters.

It's like saying, "Hey, you liked Castro. He supported the Soviet GULag system and the invasion of Afghanistan, as well as the backers of the North Vietnamese re-education camps. You like Castro, you support oppression, imperialism, and mass incarceration for indoctrination. You hate a free press and free speech. Support for Cuba is support for government concentration camps. Are you really *that* much a Trump supporter?"

Yeah, I don't find that logic very convincing. Except I don't find the *logic* convincing not because it leads to a conclusion I don't like but because I don't find the *logic* convincing because it's flawed. It's not flawed because it reaches a conclusion I don't like. It's simply invalid.

Indian nationalism is a difficult topic because the polarity kept shifting as necessary--much like Arab nationalism--to achieve the all-important goal. The enemy of your enemy is (provisionally) your friend. That meant that you'd turn to whoever was fighting your enemies in order to maybe, if they win, get freedom. It's why the mufti of Jerusalem met with Hitler--in Hitler's fight against the Palestinian's enemies, there was perhaps room to maneuver to cut a deal. Screw *your* oppressors at all costs. It's why there were connections between the PLO and Sinn Fein. Underdogs always have the choice of being morally clean and ethically pure, but often find that their goals of becoming non-underdogs require getting their morals a bit ignored and their ethical standards stressed. Purists like the outcome of that sort of thing, but always despise those who achieve an outcome by that means. Underdogs also aren't always up on all the latest classified intel held by other countries, and often don't care. We Americans *knew* how bad the USSR was--or should have--by 1940, however biased and blind folk like Durant were. And yet we supported Uncle Joe and bailed his genocidal anti-Semitic anti-democratic ass out of trouble. Because it suited out ends to side with a mass murderer worse than Hitler. ("Hey, FDR, what's that about freedoms?" is completely reasonable ... if you like purist logic.)

https://www.france24.com/en/20190426-video-reporters-hitler-free-indian-legion-subhas-chandra-bose-india-world-war-two isn't bad.

Bose was a nationalist. He believed in armed struggle against the British. He is the natural object of admiration by those who prefer a more aggressive form of liberation. Gandhi was into non-violence. They were on the same side--but quite opposed. Both allied themselves with whoever they could, as long as other moral principles were okay.

The idea getting Hitler's help = support all of Hitler's goals is equivalent to saying "In Afghanistan Islamists got Reagan and Clinton's. Therefore, the Islamists supported not just the anti-Soviet rhetoric of Reagan, but also the ideas of free expression, cruise missiles, welfare reform, and the all-important religious freedom. Osama bin Laden liked Clinton's domestic agenda, and was therefore a neoliberal after a brief fling with Reagan conservativism." Yeah, that doesn't fly.

Look past reasons for condemnation, judgment, and feelings of moral superiority. Wearing a Bose t-shirt is a bad PR move, but these days it's a way of saying, "Fuck cooperation and collaboration with the enemy, and every person should take up arms and go to the barricades!" Think of it as "Gandhi was wrong, non-violence isn't the way."

Notice that Bose also would have had problems with Modi's Hindutva. He was more universalist--while he was Hindu and sought inspiration there, he also tended towards secularism and socialism. He avidly recruited non-Hindus to his fight and, I suspect, would have seen Hindutva as promoting an internal division and therefore Indian weakness, wanting Indian to trump Hindu or Muslim.

[femmedem]

25. Thank you for the history lesson.

Last edited Fri Jul 12, 2019, 10:38 PM - Edit history (1)

I know he isn't a Nazi and I appreciate you explaining the context, sparing me having to look it up.


Edited to clarify: "he" refers to Saikat Chakrabarti.

[lapucelle]

43. Bose was a Nazi collaborator. N/T

[obamanut2012]

46. Wrong, was a Nazi collaborator of the worst sort

[femmedem]

124. I should have been clearer:

I meant that I knew Saikat Chakrabarti isn't a Nazi.

[NYMinute]

26. In India, Subhashchandra Bose is controversial

No one questions his patriotism, however, his methods and alliances were widely scorned - even to this day.

When a lot of Burmese refugees came to India and Indians heard of Japanese atrocities there, no one wanted any part of Bose's mission. His mission fizzled out because there was no popular support for it except in some militant Bengali groups.

Hitler could not have helped the Indian freedom movement. Only Japanese could have and they saw Bose as inferior and were only using him as a tool. Even from a logical perspective, if Hitler had won, India would not have had independence but would have become a Japanese colony instead of the British colony - so Bose's logic was utterly faulty.

Chakraborti, being a descendant of Bengalis probably had grandparents who served with Bose and it gives a window into his mindset -- which is scary. Would he take Russian help to overthrow the mainstream in the US because he is passionate about his cause?

[Kali]

27. thanks for that

like most Americans I am woefully uneducated about history, and the rest of the world.

[AJT]

28. Fine...it is complicated, but a tshirt doesn't allow for nuance. You're representing your candidate

so don't invite controversy that requires your candidate to have to justify why you are wearing an article of clothing.

[brush]

109. Yep, don't inject your personal politics into your rep's office where it reflects back on her.

Not rocket science. At least you'd think a Harvard graduate would get that.

Guess not.

[lapucelle]

29. Bose collaborated and cooperated with the enemy...the Axis powers.

How does that shirt say, "Fuck cooperation and collaboration with the enemy"?

[George II]

35. He collaborated with both the Japanese in Asia and the Germans in Europe. He ran....

....a propaganda radio broadcast financed by Nazi Germany.

[lapucelle]

37. Hitler gave him a submarine.

Who trusts Adolph Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, and Hideki Tojo over Mahatma Gandhi?

The guy on Saikat Chakrabarti's tee shirt.

[Jake Stern]

61. One man's enemy is another man's ally

Some folks like to shit all over Ukrainians that collaborated with the Nazis

They had literally just been subject to genocide through mass starvation and killings by the Soviet government and many who were eager to get out from under their thumb felt that working with the Nazis was the best way to do it.

While the allied nations remember the Nazis and the Holocaust, Ukrainians remember the Soviets and the Holodomor.

Considering we helped breathe new life into one of the most obscenely despotic governments in the world to achieve our objectives by supplying them with war materiel, food and other supplies, we really lack room to talk about collaborating with evil regimes.

[ripcord]

86. That is just excusing bad behavior

The Irish of the time hated the British just as much or more than the Indians but they were smart enough to stay away from Hilter when his represritives approached them.

[GulfCoast66]

117. Yep. Except not as you intended. Nothing to like about Castro.

Ran an oppressive one party collective state with no political rights for his people.

Not much to admire there.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. The go to for leftist defending Castro. Free healthcare. Not much of a trade for the loss of all political freedom.

A COS wearing a Castro t-shirt would be just as worthy of derision.

[JI7]

129. His actions were rejected by Indians AT THE TIME . There is no reason to rationalize it now

when even back then it was considered unacceptable.

[Recursion]

136. Err... he was and is popular in West Bengal (nt)

[JI7]

137. maybe that's why West Bengal is in such bad shape

[Recursion]

138. That's probably more the 30 years of communist state rule

I grant it's a political faux pas, but Netaji's face is literally everywhere you go in Kolkata.

[JI7]

141. i have never been there but would like to check it out some day.

people in india seem to support a lot of really bad people. but then again a lot of people that run for office there seem really bad to me.

i think Manmohan Singh is the only one that seemed like a decent person to me .

My problem with CHakrabarti is partly that is not from india. he was born and raised in the US and had a career on wall street and silicon valley. i see his career right now as just part of the same thing in seeing it as a way to make money.

and fuck him for his attack on Sharice Davids. he is a privileged assshole . many indian americans like himself have careers in corporate america and make good money.

but a native american who is one of the first (of 2) only since this year is seen as a problem by him . it's a good thing if people from communities who have had it tougher in this country are making it into more powerful positions in this country. it would help the community overall .

he is a definition of the ivory tower piece of shit.

[Recursion]

147. I get that. The ABCD phenomenon is real

("American Born Confused Desi", as my wife calls it.)

I absolutely agree that the shirt was in horrible taste and probably prohibitive of his continuing. I'm also just amused at how many people are pretending they had heard of Netaji before two days ago.

Do visit Kolkata if you get the chance; it's absolutely glorious and now that they've finally done some economic reforms it's on the upswing.

[Vegas Roller]

13. wow ... just wow

I bet there will be fierce defense of Chakraborti on twitter and some will just condone it.

[GulfCoast66]

112. Hell, he's being defended on this thread'

[Cha]

14. JHC.. can Chakabarti get

any worse than wearing a t-shirt with Subhas Chandra Bose on it?!

What's up with all the nazi collaborator love? Why would he possibly feel the need to sport that?

Thanks, George.

[George II]

16. Why would a "progressive democrat" even consider buying that shirt, much less do it, and then.....

....wear it in a political video for a Member of Congress?

[Cha]

17. Serious lapse

in judgment. Beyond tone deaf. Thinking.. "nobody knows who he is.. I'll just wear him"?

Somebody should ask him why?

[Igel]

21. Why bother?

Everybody knows one fact about Bose, the only important fact about a man's life, and has committed to their judgment without any further hearing or elaboration.

It's 21st century critical thinking. You think just until you can adopt a sufficient line of criticism and condemnation of somebody you have doubts with, in order to solidify those doubts.

(Older varieties would have said, "Gee, he's wearing this shirt. I know this one fact. Surely there must be things I don't know. Perhaps I should try to learn something before I get pissed off in my self-righteousness and call for his head on character grounds. I know that this is a PR problem, but PR and truth aren't necessarily the same--there's a reason that rhetoric and logic aren't synonyms, and we don't house advertising departments in the Science Division at Tier 1 universities." Sadly, the very idea of "there must be things I don't know" and "perhaps I should try to learn something" are now rhetorical tropes and not responses to gaps in knowledge.)

AOC's guy probably didn't know that somebody would search for "Bose" and opt for the worst thing the guy did, in a completely decontextualized way, taking a peripheral detail about the interaction as the central core of the man's life. (In fact, what Bose did wasn't widely known for a long time, and may not be known. But since we can't ask "what don't we know?" obviously it's impossible to ask, "What didn't he know?&quot

[lapucelle]

32. Yes, the fact that Bose collaborated with the Axis powere--the Nazis in particular--

because in his judgement, seeking help from Adolph Hitler to secure a free India was a better plan that Ghandi's plan to accomplish the goal peacefully after the world was saved from a fascist genocidal mass murderer of "inferior" people and races.

Who trusts Adolph Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, and Hideki Tojo over Mahatma Gandhi?

The guy on Saikat Chakrabarti's tee shirt.

[jberryhill]

72. How do you feel about FDR collaborating with Stalin?

[lapucelle]

76. ...

Equivocation (also known as: doublespeak)
Using an ambiguous term in more than one sense, thus making an argument misleading.

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/81/Equivocation

[still_one]

91. FDR was never an admirer of Stalin. Both countries were fighting the nazis at the time, and it was

necessary alliance to stop hitler

and while some may not understand, wearing a t-shirt of a nazi collaborator might actually be hurtful to some

Where have I heard that before?

[lapucelle]

93. Well said.

[jberryhill]

98. Should we demand India rename the Kolkata Arioort?

Yes or no?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netaji_Subhas_Chandra_Bose_International_Airport

Why should we maintain diplomatic relations with India?

[lapucelle]

99. Someone might want to ask them to fix the sign so it reads "airport".

[jberryhill]

102. That's how you say it in Hindi

[lapucelle]

110. Really? How very interesting.

https://www.rocketlanguages.com/hindi/vocabulary/airport-in-hindi

[jberryhill]

115. Lol

Well, golly, you sure showed me. Lol

[Recursion]

140. The Hindi is "vimanashri". Bose didn't speak Hindi.

The Bengali is "vimanavandara"

[jberryhill]

145. I'll be he didn't fat-finger an iPhone keyboard either

[Recursion]

146. If he did he would have just had the iPhone shot

Decisive, I'll give him that.

[jberryhill]

166. I want the t-shirt of that

[Cha]

101. Mahalo, lapucellel!

[lapucelle]

113. Mahalo, my friend.

[still_one]

89. I remember clearly how FDR wore a Stalin t-shirt at the Yalta conference

[jberryhill]

90. I thought Stalin had gifted him a Che Guevara

[still_one]

92. Touche'

[George II]

96. You're still getting it wrong - the US and the USSR were allies against Germany and Japan....

....in WWII. Had Bose chosen to collaborate with the US and the USSR this would not be an issue, but he was collaborating, spreading propaganda, and using German POWs to fight against our OTHER ally in WWII, the British.

Have you ever seen this historic photograph?



Or this one?

[jberryhill]

97. Why would an Indian be interested in supporting the US in WWII?

Yes, the US was propping up the British.

From an Indian perspective at the time, that didn’t make the US the “good guys”.

Are you familiar with the massacre at Amritsar?

Are you at all familiar with anything the British did in India?

[George II]

104. You keep trying to meander off course. I'm sure not many really care what Bose did....

...in the 1940s. But this is 2019 and Chakrabarti, chief of staff of a Member of Congress of the United States, is essentially honoring someone who fought WITH our enemies in WWII, i.e. against the United States and our allies.

The rest of that is interesting but irrelevant.

I could ask a similar question of Chakrabarti - is he aware of the Armenian genocide and the fact that the person he teamed up with to form Justice Democrats, was an Armenian genocide denier at the time they did so?

[betsuni]

107. One doesn't hear about "optics" so much anymore.

[PatrickforO]

162. That's not really fair. Gandhi has now achieved a form of sainthood, for sure, but back in

the day, he was one of a group of Indian politicians who had formed an uneasy alliance to get rid of British rule.

We've got to be careful not to impose our 20/20 historical hindsight on Bose, because he did what seemed right to him at the time. Chakrabarti does need to stop wearing the tee, though, and definitely should apologize to Davids and the rest of the Dems in Congress he has insulted. And, AOC should probably fire him.

But gee, how come we aren't focusing on getting rid of Trump. Instead we are splitting hairs about whether medicare for all is the best package or whether we should try to repair the ACA, reverse the GOP sabotage, allow the government to negotiate price and add a public option. That doesn't matter to me, as progressive as I am, as much as simply moving forward on the issue.

Same with climate change. There is no controversy among real scientists. Climate change is real, human-caused and is an existential threat to our species. We are killing the oceans, polluting the air and systematically destroying our environmental equilibrium for the sake of shareholder profits. Sure, I want a Green New Deal. Silly me, I'd rather have my grandkids and their kids be able to actually breathe the air and have enough to eat and stuff, but you know, I'd be happy if we just got back in the Paris agreement, and begin passing legislation that created more incentive toward green energy, conservation and mitigation of climate change. As long as there is forward progress, that's great.

But, no, we have to draw the lines, circle the wagons. Sometimes it is hard to watch, especially when I imagine Trump, Miller, Pence and McConnell laughing their asses off at our internecine battles. Really funny. Not. And really unproductive.

[SidDithers]

59. I'm curious as to the context, further hearing or elaboration...

that excuses "collaborated with the Nazi's and Japanese during the WWII"



You seem to be saying that, sure, he collaborated with the Nazis, but don't let that be the only important fact used to judge his character.

Sid

[George II]

68. I'm sure his wife and children liked him.

[SidDithers]

78. Maybe he was good with pets?...nt

Sid

[greytdemocrat]

131. LOL!!!

Hey Sid...

[EX500rider]

164. Maybe the trains ran on time? nt

[Recursion]

134. Because Bose is a hero among Indian Bengalis?

Hell, the airport in Kolkata is named after him.

[Captain Zero]

153. Right, all the shirts in the world to put on in the morning...

and he picks this one. Doesn't he have like a Hall & Oates or Beatles t-shirt?

[OnDoutside]

15. Well, that's a little awkward ....

[MFGsunny]

18. WTF ...... and AOC has fixed any of this how/when?????

Her credibility gaps may be gaping wider and wider.

[tritsofme]

19. Why hasn't the guy been fired? Not a hard choice here.

[DFW]

22. Where some Indian nationalists may see an Indian "freedom fighter," Jews see a Nazi collaborator.

OK, so which group is more heavily represented in New York City?

If the answer to that one does NOT explain why wearing the shirt was an extremely poorly thought-out move, then there isn't much of an argument left to present to anyone who thinks AOC should keep this guy on.

[brush]

105. Aren't there many Jewish constituents in her district?

[DFW]

121. Exactly!

Which is why having a spokesman parade around with a shirt with the image of a man Jews see as a famous Nazi collaborator is probably not the wisest thing a Congresswoman from NYC could do.

Maybe she wanted him gone anyway, and was just giving him enough rope to hang himself. If so, she has been successful. If she is completely unaware there is a problem, then she is defitely not ready for prime time.

[brush]

122. She's racking up enemies, calling the Speaker a racist and making a lot of mistakes just 6 months...

in—I don't know? She should do something quick about that chief of staff to show her constituents she knows what's up.

A chief of staff for a rep from NYC sporting a T-shirt with a nazi collaborator on it, as if all the Jewish people in the district wouldn't hear about it—that COS is unimaginably arrogant in his stupidity.

This is a test for AOC. She needs to get rid of him or she might face a primary.

[DFW]

125. She SHOULD face a primary

She got in by challenging an incumbent and winning. Why should she get a free ride if she feels so many other incumbent Democrats don’t deserve to? She should defend her nomination the same way her opponent had to defend his last time.

[brush]

152. She just might with this COS issue and Jewish constituents. There was also election day confusion...

when she won. Many thought the primary was going to be in Sept. not June as it was, the reason for the extremely low turn out. Those circumstances won't repeat themselves again.

[DFW]

159. No, they won't

But having turned herself into a minor media celebrity in the meantime will play in her favor. Whichever way the wind ends up blowing, she should at least give the voters in her district the same chance of an option that she so vocally advocates for other Democrats who are not to her liking, maybe even give her Democratic House colleagues the chance to endorse her opponent just as she endorsed theirs. If she is really the choice of her constituency, she should emerge with a stronger mandate. If she loses her primary, then the Democratic voters of her district will have simply indicated a preference for other representation. I don‘t see what objection she could possibly have to a competitive primary race in either case.

[PatrickforO]

163. Wow. I don't know what to say - you really seem to despise her.

Sorry for that, because I don't. I like the way she's speaking truth to power about things like the tax code, and climate change and healthcare. I liked the dance video. She's a year younger than my youngest child.

Like all people in their twenties, she lacks the experience to go with the fire inside. But I'll tell you this - letting her burn is a bad, bad idea. Circling the wagons as if she's the enemy and not Trump, McConnell, Miller and the billionaire Republican donors who created think tanks like ALEC is a really bad move. Believe me, the right wingers - the smart ones who are billionaires - are laughing heartily at our little battle here.

Yeah she should fire Chakravarti. For sure.

But in the meantime, consider the 86 million millennials who are now of voting age. And the Gen Z who are just becoming of age - their oldest is 23 years at this time. Those are the generation of the Parkland kids. Let me just ask you what they have to be grateful for from the two-party system? Crushing student debt? School shootings? Not being able to afford a car or an apartment? Working in jobs with low pay who gave their employees a $400 bonus to celebrate the tax cuts when they spent millions buying back shares (my son's company) - oh but he got a gift card, too!

This is what I've been saying all along. We need to be working with these kids and not squashing the first ones of them in Congress. Because they have little to lose. They've been screwed by the system every which way but loose, real cash cows. In my state we have 733K people, mostly millennials and Gen Z, who owe an average of over $33K in student loan debt. They can't start businesses, buy a house, and every year their average remittance of student loan payments takes about $24 billion out of the state's economy - money that will not be used to buy local goods and services. But they were told they had to go to college to get the crappy jobs they have now.

This generation is 86 million strong, and begging for someone who can energize them, motivate them, set a vision they can believe in. They don't get that and they won't show up. And, they will turn against this party. Don't say 'we don't need them,' because we do. Really bad. And we are the natural party for them to go to.

But what kind of operational message are they getting? From the Republicans, a simple Fuck You, we don't need you. The Republicans have circled their wagons around old white men.

From the Democrats? We all ought to be thinking about that. Our wisdom literature says the people perish without a vision. Whoever we run in the upcoming election, at whatever level, needs to be talking about a vision - a vision of healthcare, good roads, jobs that pay enough, affordable housing, affordable, debt-free college and a healthy, cool earth their children and grandchildren will inherit.

Piling on AOC, Tlaib, Omar and Pressley isn't helping that. And if we don't set the vision and then DO what we say we'll DO, we risk losing this whole bloc of new voters, many of whom have never cast a ballot.

[Seeking Serenity]

23. Stereotypical Millennials, bordering on parody

The stereotype being that Millennials think that history began the day they were born.

And the constant, damn near pathological, need for attention on social media.

(Says the middle-aged Gen-Xer who shakes her head at her generation for bringing up Millennials to act that way.)

[George II]

24. The shirt, and Subhas Chandra Bose meeting with Adolf Hitler:

Link to tweet

/photo/1

[Recursion]

142. And here's Gandhi meeting with Bose

I still think this is like blaming George Washington for taking help from Louis XVI.

[George II]

148. You're comparing Adolph Hitler to Louis XVI?

Several thousand Americans died fighting against Bose's Indian National Army.

[Recursion]

149. That's the point of my post, yes

Washington accepted help from Louis XVI. That doesn't make him responsible for the ancien regime. Given that the famines caused by the British killed more people in Bengal and Gujarat than the Holocaust did, I don't know that it's easy to judge someone under that rule for reaching out to the UK's enemies.

[world wide wally]

30. Once the Republicans tell people who the guy is, does anyone really think everyone

will run home and research the details and innuendo and history of the guy on the shirt?
Get real already. There is no need whatsoever to let this slide.
'bye, dude.

[geardaddy]

31. Bose not only collaborated with the Nazis,

he also collaborated with the Japanese. He wanted the Japanese to aid the Indian National Army to invade British India.

[geardaddy]

36. Actually, the Indian National Army was the Japanese version of the Free India Legion

Which was the German unit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subhas_Chandra_Bose#1943%E2%80%931945:_Japanese-occupied_Asia

[lapucelle]

40. Right you are.

A 3,000-strong Free India Legion, comprising Indians captured by Erwin Rommel's Afrika Korps, was also formed to aid in a possible future German land invasion of India. By spring 1942, in light of Japanese victories in southeast Asia and changing German priorities, a German invasion of India became untenable, and Bose became keen to move to southeast Asia.

snip==========================================

Intended to serve as a liberation force for British-ruled India, it was made up of Indian prisoners of war and expatriates in Europe. Because of its origins in the Indian independence movement, it was known also as the "Tiger Legion", and the "Azad Hind Fauj".

Initially raised as part of the German Army, it was officially assigned to the Waffen-SS from August 1944. Indian independence leader Subhas Chandra Bose initiated the legion's formation, as part of his efforts to win India's independence by waging war against Britain, when he came to Berlin in 1941 seeking German aid.

The initial recruits in 1941 were volunteers from the Indian students resident in Germany at the time, and a handful of the Indian prisoners of war who had been captured during the North Africa Campaign. It would later draw a larger number of Indian prisoners of war as volunteers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Legion

[geardaddy]

41. I wasn't sure either.

That's why I looked it up!

[lapucelle]

42. Thanks.

[Hekate]

33. I see

This is really bad news for the darling of the Left. Don’t ding me for calling her that, either.
You know she is. Colbert loves to have her on. Bernie loves her and mentors her. She’s a firebrand. She’s pretty and charming and sparkly.

But this young woman is going to have a sadly short career unless she does some real course correction very soon. Like getting rid of Chakrabarti.

[comradebillyboy]

39. She'd have to think there was a problem first.

She doesn't seem to care how many enemies she makes for herself with House Dems. It's almost like it's her goal.

[cwydro]

83. "All publicity is good publicity."

Don’t know who said that, but some people sure believe it.

[Tech]

44. My great grandmother came from Ireland for religious and economic freedom.

My grandmother fought for and helped get the vote for women.

My mother raised 7 kids and then went back to school and got straight A's, got a job teaching, and helped out us all through college.

I slammed into and through a few glass ceilings.

My daughter has strong women behind her, and is continuing on the tradition.

In my family, we appreciate the challenges that those who came before us had. And we appreciate what their sacrifices have helped us to achieve.

In college I lived in an apartment with other young women. We were energetic, we were hard working, we were fun, and we were popular. We had a cute name for ourselves. Did I mention we were young? We all grew up and are still friends to this day. We left that cute name where it belongs, as a fond memory. It had no place in our lives as we grew up and had families and careers. I cringe when I hear them call themselves a "squad".

I had so much hope that all of our hard work was paying off. That women were finally getting a voice. I am not seeing them using that voice wisely. They do not appreciate the sacrifices of those who came before.

I will continue to watch closely. At this point, the negatives are starting to outweigh the positives. Is she helping or hurting? My grandma lived to her 90's, my mom is 91. If I am like them, I still have 30 years of voting left. If she continues to alianate, her career may be over before it has a chance to start.

And that would be a shame, as she has a lot to offer.

[Hekate]

50. Love your her-story. ❤️☘ In context, I thought you were going to talk about another Irish thing...

When I was a youngster, my Mom told me that the Irish had done a spot of serious collaboration during WWII, I was aghast. These were our people; how could this be?

She said: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend. That's how much they hated the British."

That's probably the trap some Indians fell into back then: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Though by now wearing such a T-shirt may seem as harmless as American youth wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt. Plus nobody in America knows, right? So a poke in the eye, but we're too dumb to know.

Except he opens his mouth, calls attention to himself in a big way, and someond does some inconvenient checking. (I've noticed we have a lot of Asian Indians in American journalism in 2019.) AOC's aide is not a college student on a campus any more. Washington DC is the big leagues, where AOC and her staff wanted to be. Different behavior applies.

[Tech]

52. Big leagues with big stakes! Yeah, that British thing, mom was not allowed to watch

anything british. Grandma was a bit more specific, always wanted to know what religion my boyfriend's were.

I hope they get it figured out.

[brush]

53. Yep, Washington is the big leagues and "there's no collaborating in baseball/DC." My apologies to...

Tom Hanks, Madonna and to the screen writer of "A League of Their Own."

[SidDithers]

56. I'm gonna go full baseball movie geek now...

It was actress Bitty Schram that Tom Hanks told "there's no crying in baseball", not Madonna.




Sid

[brush]

58. Sorry, I stand corrected. "Major League" is my favorite baseball movie.

[SidDithers]

60. For me it's still Bull Durham...

though A League of Their Own is a close second.



Sid

[lapucelle]

62. The Natural...

...although as a child, I really liked "Kill the Umpire" with William Bendix.

[brush]

88. "Bull Durham" was good but I swore off Surandon in 2016 so my second is the recent Jackie Robinson..

film. They really captured the '40s period piece ethos.

[dalton99a]

38. Betcha nothing will happen to him

because firing him would be racist

[obamanut2012]

47. For the Bose apologists on this thread

And yeah, that is what you are doing - there is no "nuance." He was a Nazi collaborator of the worst sort. Doing it because he wanted to free India of the British does not excuse it -- the only reason he stopped buddying up with Hitler, Himmler, etal was because he became dissatisfied with how they were helping him, not because he was against Nazism.

Anyway, this is the oath his troops took -- no nuance there:

"I swear by God this holy oath that I will obey the leader of the German race and state, Adolf Hitler, as the commander of the German armed forces in the fight for India, whose leader is Subhas Chandra Bose."

[George II]

48. Thanks for that bit of historical perspective. Bose was NOT a "good guy".

[dalton99a]

51. Yep, the Free India Legion.

Subhas Chandra Bose

[democratisphere]

49. SHE picked him.

[lapucelle]

63. I wonder if she had to sign a contract with BNC.

She was one of their candidates when Saikat Chakrabarti was running the PAC.





I'm glad I got the screenshots before they scrubbed their website.

They are not friends of the Democratic party.

[George II]

65. The bottom of your graphic is not a mistake, they endorsed republican Ryerse in Arkansas.

[lapucelle]

66. Many questions have been raised about him.

Mr. Chakrabarti launched Brand New Congress PAC to raise and bundle campaign contributions for non-career politicians such as Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. He set up Brand New Congress LLC as a for-hire, ready-made campaign organization for the PAC and its newbie candidates.

The key difference is that a PAC must disclose contributions and expenditures the same as a candidate campaign. LLCs don’t have to report or itemize their spending.

Brand New Congress PAC paid Brand New Congress LLC about $261,000 for “strategic consulting” during the 2018 cycle, accounting for the PAC’s 10 largest expenditures, according to filings to the Federal Election Commission.

https://www.apnews.com/7fe67c6bca345aed240897732caedee2

[George II]

67. Looks like "dark money" to me.

[lapucelle]

69. It certainly is a complex schematic.

I would like to see any contract that BNC candidates were required to sign.

[lapucelle]

70. Payments to company owned by Ocasio-Cortez aide come under scrutiny

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.)’s chief of staff helped establish two political action committees that paid a company he ran more than $1 million in 2016 and 2017, federal campaign finance records show.

Brand New Congress LLC, the company owned by Saikat Chakrabarti, was also paid $18,880 for strategic consulting by Ocasio-Cortez’s congressional campaign in 2017, records show. The following year, he worked as a volunteer to manage her campaign, according to his LinkedIn profile.

The arrangement, first reported by conservative outlets, left hidden who ultimately profited from the payments — a sharp juxtaposition with Ocasio-Cortez’s calls for transparency in politics. She has called dark money “the enemy to democracy.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/payments-to-corporation-owned-by-ocasio-cortez-aide-come-under-scrutiny/2019/03/05/ae5045ee-3f61-11e9-9361-301ffb5bd5e6_story.html?utm_term=.1d8ff8c1c5a4

[George II]

74. Justice Democrats (Chakrabarti's PAC) paid Brand New Congress LLC (Chakrabarti's OTHER PAC)....

a total of $605,849.12 in 2017-2018. Curiously Justice Democrats hasn't filed any reports with the FEC in 2019.

Being an LLC, Brand New Congress LLC doesn't have to document what they did with any money they receive.

[Celerity]

85. so glad to see the RW talking points come out

A conservative group alleges Ocasio-Cortez and her allies ran a PAC scam. But there's no evidence of wrongdoing.
While the structure of her campaign and its vendors might be confusing, it's not illegal, campaign finance experts said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/fact-check-did-ocasio-cortez-her-team-break-campaign-finance-n980121

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's congressional campaign has come under scrutiny in recent days for what a conservative group has alleged is a massive violation of campaign finance law. The National Legal and Policy Center filed a complaint with the Federal Elections Commission on Tuesday, alleging that the New York Democrat and her allies used a corporation to skirt campaign finance reporting laws. The complaint comes after a number of conservative-leaning outlets said Ocasio-Cortez broke campaign finance laws when she hired her boyfriend for marketing work.

David Mitrani, an attorney representing Ocasio-Cortez's campaign and the related organizations named in the FEC complaint, pushed back strongly on the reports in a statement Wednesday, saying that the entities "have at all times been conducted fully in compliance with federal campaign finance laws." Ocasio-Cortez herself denied the allegation on Tuesday to Fox News: "There is no violation."

Campaign finance experts, meanwhile, told NBC News that while the structure of her campaign and its vendors might be confusing, there's no evidence of some kind of million-dollar scam as has been alleged in news reports.

snip


Conservative Ethics Group Files Campaign Spending Complaint Against Rep. Ocasio-Cortez and Her Chief of Staff
Lawyers for Ocasio-Cortez say she and other Democrat activists "fully complied with the law and the highest ethical standards."

https://www.snopes.com/news/2019/03/07/aoc-chief-of-staff/

snip

The complaint states that the Policy Center “has found reason to believe [the] Respondents knowingly and willfully violated 2 U.S.C. 434(b)(5)(A),” a provision of U.S. campaign finance law that requires the treasurer of any registered political committee to report the name and address of anyone who receives more than $200 in campaign-related spending from that committee, along with the dates and purpose of that spending.

In a lengthy and detailed statement sent to Snopes, attorneys for Ocasio-Cortez and the PACs accused in the complaint said all their activities had “fully complied with the law and the highest ethical standards.”

snip


Crucially, the attorneys emphasized that the way the committees described the services provided by the company was, in brief, no less specific than the law required it to be: “Brand New Congress LLC received guidance from the Federal Election Commission as to how payments from the PACs and the various candidates to Brand New Congress LLC would need to be reported. Consistent with FEC regulations, precedent and practice, the FEC’s Reports and Analysis Division confirmed that payments by the PACs and candidates to this vendor, Brand New Congress LLC, did not need to be broken out by subcategories of service, nor would subvendors need to be itemized.”

The FEC’s website itself stipulates that “strategy consulting” is an adequately specific description of services rendered in return for PAC spending. Whether the activities of the PACs or the company violated campaign finance law, or whether the complaint has any merit, will be matters for the FEC to decide. A spokesperson confirmed to Snopes that the FEC had received the complaint but said they were legally prevented from offering any further comment.

snip



I say RW talking points because it was a RW started complaint and is 90% plus covered by RW sites











Rightwing targets Saikat Chakrabarti, chief-of-staff of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
AOC denies any impropriety in campaign financing and says “there is no violation,” and “I am 100 percent people-funded”

WASHINGTON, D.C. — The conservative media that has obsessed over Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D.-N.Y.) since the 29-year-old progressive firebrand’s advent on Capitol Hill, warning that she’s a dangerous radical socialist, are chomping at the bit after a far-right watchdog group on March 4 filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission accusing Ocasio-Cortez’s chief-of-staff Saikat Chakrabarti of illegally funneling campaign donations to a company he owned.

Led by the likes of Fox News’ prime-time line up of President Trump’s acolytes—Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham—the conservative media pilloried Ocasio-Cortez, branding her a hypocrite for her mantra of calling for transparency in politics and that dark money is “the enemy of democracy,” even as her top aide was hiding these transfers of nearly $1 million from two political actions committees he established to his Brand New Congress LLC in 2016 and 2017. During this time period, both PACs had raised about $3.3 million.

The Fox triumvirate also made the giant leap of declaring that Ocasio-Cortez and her man Friday, Chakrabarti could go to jail for these violations, although FEC officials dismissed such dire predictions and explained that any such indictments could only be pursued if it were proven that the complaint had merit and the alleged conspirators “knowingly and willfully” violated campaign finance laws.

Ocasio-Cortez buttonholed by reporters as she was leaving her Capitol Hill office on March 5, denied any impropriety, saying, “There is no violation,” and asserting that “I’m 100 percent people-funded.”

snip

[George II]

100. I'm sure if you wanted to you could have found non-right wing sources for most, if not all...

....of that. And many of them have quite a bit of truth.

As for the money "angle", most is readily available in the filings on the FEC.gov website.

[Celerity]

103. you are a busy bee, lolol

feel free to read my reply to the top one of your replies

[George II]

106. Both of those screen shots are responses to posts of yours, so I guess you're just as busy a bee....

...as I am.

The facts in the Washington Post story are true, and the Washington Post is not a right wing publication. If donald trump said this morning that the sky is blue, are we to disagree because donald trump is a right winger?

[Celerity]

114. nope nice try, here is my full reply to you on the other thread, this whole story is RW spew

WaPo reported on it AFTER the story from came out from RW sources, and it was a RW non profit who filed the complaint.






The National Legal and Policy Center

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Legal_and_Policy_Center

The National Legal and Policy Center (NLPC) is a right-leaning 501(c)(3) non-profit group that monitors and reports on the ethics of public officials, supporters of liberal causes, and labor unions in the United States. The Center files complaints with government agencies, legally challenges what they view as abuse and corruption, and publishes reports. The NLPC is described as conservative in nature.The NLPC's current chairman is Peter Flaherty.

The NLPC was founded in 1991 following the release of the Senate Ethics Committee report into the Keating Five.

snip

Lawsuit v. Hillary Healthcare Task Force

NLPC was a plaintiff in the successful 1993 lawsuit to open the meetings and records of Hillary Clinton's health care task force.

On February 24, 1993, Hillary Rodham Clinton and the six Cabinet members serving on the task force were sued under the Federal Advisory Committee Act (FACA) in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia by NLPC, along with two other groups, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons and the American Council for Health Care Reform. FACA requires government task forces to conduct its affairs in public if non-government employees, or "outsiders," take part.[5]

On March 10, 1993, Judge Royce Lamberth ruled that the task force had to open its meetings to the plaintiffs and the media.[6] Lamberth ruled that the "official" members of the task force, meaning the First Lady and the Cabinet Secretaries who comprised its membership, could not meet in secret because Clinton was not a government employee. But Lamberth also ruled that all the other people working on the plan, who were organized into "sub-groups," could continue to work in secret, because FACA was never meant to apply to staff.

Lamberth's ruling was appealed by the White House, and was overturned on June 22, 1993 after the task force had supposedly already disbanded on May 30. Justice Department lawyers argued that since Hillary Rodham Clinton "functions in both a legal and practical sense as part of the government," her participation in the task force should not trigger FACA. A three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit agreed.


snip

Auto Bailout and 2014 General Motors Recall

NLPC was a high-profile critic of the bailout of the auto industry by the United States government. NLPC’s spokesman was Mark Modica, a former Saturn dealer business manager and wiped-out GM bondholder. Following a demand by NLPC, General Motors in 2014 recalled 1.3 million vehicles with a steering loss defect uncovered by Modica.

Senator Robert Menendez

Senator Robert Menendez (D-NJ) was indicted in April 2015, along with Dr. Salomon Melgen, his largest campaign contributor, partly on the basis of information made public by NLPC through a front-page New York Times story on February 1, 2013. Melgen is a wealthy south Florida eye doctor who was born in the Dominican Republic and is a naturalized U.S. citizen.

The charges related to Menendez’ attempts to derail a Medicare fraud investigation into Melgen’s practice and securing visas for three Melgen “girlfriends.” The indictment also alleged that Menendez pushed a port security deal in the Dominican Republic that would have provided a windfall for Melgen. In return, the indictment alleges Melgen provided Menendez with private jet ride rides, Dominican vacations, and donations to his legal defense fund. Information on the port security deal was provided by NLPC to the Times.

The Justice Department chose not to retry Menendez after his trial ended in a mistrial on November 16, 2017. On August 8, 2018, NLPC filed a Freedom of Information Act request for documents pertaining to the prosecution and the decision not to retry Menendez. Then-NLPC Chairman Ken Boehm suggested that Menendez was the beneficiary of political influence by pointing out that Menendez’ lawyer is Abbe Lowell, who also represents Jared Kushner, President Trump’s son-in-law. Kushner and his family are longtime donors to Democratic politicians in New Jersey, including Menendez.

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

NLPC filed a Complaint with the Federal Election Commission on March 4, 2019 against Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) and her chief of staff Saikat Chakrabarti, alleging that they orchestrated an extensive operation to hide hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign spending during the 2018 campaign.

Rep. Maxine Waters

NLPC filed two Complaints, currently pending, against Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) with the Federal Election Commission alleging campaign finance violations in relation to her so-called slate mailer.

The first, filed on July 26, 2018, alleges that Waters violated federal election law by accepting a payment to her campaign fund from the Democratic State Central Committee of California (DSCCC) in the amount of $35,000 for the inclusion of then-Senate candidate, and now Senator Kamala Harris, on Waters’ slate mailer. Whereas candidates like Harris may legally pay Waters’ campaign for the proportional costs of their inclusion on her slate mailer, it is not legal for such payment to be made by a third party like the DSCCC.

The second, filed in October 2018, alleges that Waters violated federal election law by accepting a $25,000 payment to her campaign fund from a group called “Families and Teachers for Antonio.” The payment was to include former Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa on the mailer, who was running for Governor. Whereas candidates like Villaraigosa may legally pay Waters’ campaign for the proportional costs of their inclusion on her slate mailer, it is not legal for such payment to be made by a third party.[26][27][28]

Rep. Elijah Cummings

On May 20, 2019, NLPC filed a complaint with the Internal Revenue Service against the Center for Global Policy Solutions (CGPS), a nonprofit headed by Maya Rockeymoore Cummings, wife of Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD). Mrs. Cummings is also the principal in Global Policy Solutions, LLC, a for-profit Limited Liability Corporation that the Complaint charges is “impermissibly entwined” with the nonprofit.

Constitutional Challenge to Mueller Authority

NLPC is providing financial and logistical support to a constitutional challenge to Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s appointment and authority by Andrew Miller, a former aide to indicted GOP operative Roger Stone, who has been subpoenaed in the case. Miller is represented by constitutional and appellate attorney Paul Kamenar, who is working on a partial pro bono basis.

NLPC Chairman Peter Flaherty told the New York Times on June 28, 2018, “The founders feared exactly what we see in Mueller: a runaway federal official. We hope to see Mueller’s operation disbanded, once and for all.”


snip


AOC’s chief of staff ran $1M slush fund by diverting campaign cash to his own companies

by Alana Goodman
| March 04, 2019 03:34 PM <<<< BEFORE WaPo and a RW rag

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/ocasio-cortezs-chief-of-staff-ran-1m-slush-fund-by-diverting-campaign-cash-to-his-own-companies


also before (I can go on and on)

WND
COMPLAINT: OCASIO-CORTEZ'S CHIEF OF STAFF RAN $1M SLUSH FUND
FEC alerted to alleged diversion of campaign cash to his companies
Published: 03/04/2019 at 6:27 PM <<<< BEFORE WaPo and a RW site

https://www.wnd.com/2019/03/complaint-ocasio-cortezs-chief-of-staff-ran-1m-slush-fund/



and going deeper (and this is what kicked off the RW firm to file a complaint in the first place)


PAC aligned with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez paid boyfriend $6G for marketing work
Published February 21
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pac-aligned-with-ocasio-cortez-paid-6g-her-boyfriend-for-marketing-work


these RW POS keep running with all this bullshit even though most all of it is bebunked

here is a debunking BEFORE Fox New ran with that last one


No, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Didn't Hire Her Boyfriend Riley Roberts As A Staffer

ANDREA GONZÁLEZ-RAMÍREZ
LAST UPDATED FEBRUARY 15, 2019, 8:00 PM

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2019/02/224559/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-boyfriend-riley-roberts-congress-staff-email

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez found herself at the center of another right-wing Twitter conspiracy Friday morning, after a Republican strategist falsely claimed that she had employed her longtime partner Riley Roberts as a paid congressional staffer. The New York congresswoman and her team corrected the record, saying this is not true.

Conservative podcast host Luke Thompson first made the claims. Taking a screenshot from an unknown source, he tweeted: "While you were having a nice Valentine's Day, @AOC decided to put her boyfriend on staff - drawing a salary on the taxpayer's dime. Nice to see her adapting to the swamp so quickly." (The tweet was temporarily taken down because the screenshot, which includes Roberts' email and phone number, was said to be in violation of Twitter's terms of service.)


Ocasio-Cortez was quick to debunk the claim, clarifying that Roberts obtained an official House email address in order to get access to her calendar. "Actually this cal designation is a permission so he can have access to my Google Cal. Congressional spouses get Gcal access all the time. Next time check your facts before you tweet nonsense," she tweeted.

Link to tweet

snip


the whole thing is RW bollocks from the start

[0rganism]

54. AOC needs to drop this guy like a handful of molten lava

nothing positive he does for her is remotely comparable to the damage he's causing
let him sort out his ignorance and priorities on his own time

[stonecutter357]

55. WOW !

[TheRealNorth]

57. Nazi collaborators

Never stopped the Republicans from cozying up with them in Eastern Europe. Hell, from what took place in Charlottesville they are cozying up with American Nazis today.

I think this is a case of "My enemies enemy is a friend". Not always the best strategy, but I don't know if it makes you more guilty of the holocaust then say, Ukrainian Nationalists that fought on the eastern front with the Wehrmact and were pretty active participants in massacres of civilians and the concentration camps.

[nini]

64. She needs to get rid of this person yesterday.

Now he's going after Sharice Davids and others. Fuck him sideways.

AOC needs to get rid of him and right away. She's looking just as bad as he does for not jumping on this.

[struggle4progress]

71. Bose may be a hero to some in India, but he won't ever be a hero here in the US

Chakrabarti should know better

[RHMerriman]

84. Chakrabarti was born in Fort Worth, graduated from Harvard, and is 32 years old...

Chakrabarti was born in Fort Worth, is a US citizen, graduated from Harvard, and is 32 years old... and he is chief of staff to a member of the US Congress.

One would think he'd past the "wearing an edgy t-shirt" stage of political activism.

Bose was an ally of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan - both of which were the declared enemies of the United States from 1941-45.

Some 418,000 US citizens died in WW 2, including some 3,700 dead in the China-Burma-India (CBI) theater, where the enemy forces included the Indian National Army forces under Japanese command.

[link:https://www.nationalww2museum.org/students-teachers/student-resources/research-starters/research-starters-worldwide-deaths-world-war|]

and

[link:http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/Casualties/Casualties-1.html|]

Here are a few of them that fought in the CBI and survived:

[link:https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/08/29/last-reunion-for-famed-us-wwii-unit-merrills-marauders/|]

[George II]

111. Yes, Bose's Indian National Army was fighting against the United States during that time.

[RHMerriman]

126. Correct.

Correct. Bose was an Axis puppet, and every INA soldier who took up arms, anywhere in Southeast Asia, meant there was one more Japanese soldier available for the front lines in India, Burma, China, and points east.

Does Mr. Chakrabarti think - for example - it would be appropriate for a Congressional staffer to wear a t-short with an image, of, say, Robert E. Lee?

[struggle4progress]

128. Yes, Chakrabarti should know better

How an Indian nationalist like Bose should have considered a war involving the UK at that time is a different question

Dharasana Satyagraha was a protest against the British salt tax in colonial India in May, 1930. Following the conclusion of the Salt March to Dandi, Mahatma Gandhi chose a non-violent raid of the Dharasana Salt Works in Gujarat as the next protest against British rule. Hundreds of satyagrahis were beaten by soldiers under British command at Dharasana. The ensuing publicity attracted world attention to the Indian independence movement and brought into question the legitimacy of British rule in India.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharasana_Satyagraha

[RHMerriman]

144. As a traitor by the British and their Indian allies;

As a traitor by the British and their Indian allies; as an embarrassment by the pro-independence Indian nationalists, presumably.

After the experience of the Okinawans, Taiwanese, Koreans, Manchurians, and Chinese before 1941, and the Filipinos, Indochinese, Thais, Malayans, Indonesians, Burmese, and Indians after 1941, it's not like the record of the Japanese Empire regarding their fellow Asians was unknown.

Bose was a puppet of the Japanese, and given that roughly 2.5 million people from the Indian subcontinent served in the Allied militaries and merchant marines during WW2, and roughly 90,000 died fighting the Axis - both the Italians and Germans in the African and Mediterranean/European theaters and the Japanese in the Southeast Asia and the Pacific - one would think even Indian nationalists in the 21st Century would understand the legacy of that service...

As an obvious point, the post-independence armed forces of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh all trace their histories and traditions through the organizations that fought the Axis in WW 2.

But that's hardly pertinent - the reality is that Mr. Chakrabarti is a native-born US citizen, with an excellent education, and is surely enough of an adult to understand what this nation lost to defeat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

And yet he think it is "edgy" to wear a t-shirt with a picture of an Axis puppet army's leader... has he explained that one yet?

I mean, calling his fellow Democrats - including respected members of the CBC, for example - as what amount to Uncle Toms is an idiotically offensive and tone deaf move, but does he really think the Axis are the side to commemorate when it comes to the Second World War?

[brush]

156. Well said. Let's see how AOC deals with the arrogance of her COS paying tribute to a nazi...

collaborator. Especially since her district has many Jewish constituents.

[struggle4progress]

157. I can't see any reason for anyone anywhere to admire Bose today

especially given what we know about the Germans and Japanese as conquerers in that era. So I'll agree that it's entirely idiotic of Chakrabarti to wear a Bose t-shirt.

I'm generally unsympathetic to hardcore nationalists but I do think the Bose story might look very different to Indian nationalists. India's experience as a colony was not always pleasant. The Foreign Office had some reputation for encouraging local tensions as part of a divide-and-rule technique; extraction of Indian wealth may actually have bankrolled the industrial revolution in England; and the local population sometimes suffered terribly:

The Bengal famine of 1943 ..was a major famine of the Bengal province in British India during World War II. An estimated 2.1–3 million, out of a population of 60.3 million, died of starvation, or of malaria and other diseases aggravated by malnutrition, population displacement, unsanitary conditions and lack of health care. Millions were impoverished as the crisis overwhelmed large segments of the economy and social fabric. Historians have frequently characterised the famine as "man-made", asserting that wartime colonial policies created and then exacerbated the crisis ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943

[jberryhill]

73. So this explains why AOC is a fascist, yes?

[George II]

75. Who called her a fascist? I haven't seen that anywhere.

[jberryhill]

77. Oh, okay

I thought that was the point.

So the t-shirt doesn't seem to be having an effect on her?

Time was that certain Indians were none too pleased with the British. I guess one's feelings about the British in WWII might have depended on how many of your loved ones the British had killed already.

I suppose next you'll try to convince me that a prominent Democrat collaborated with Stalin during WWII.

[AncientGeezer]

79. Yeah....but I get your point....I think

[George II]

81. You seem to have overlooked the fact that the British were our ally during WWII....

...as was the Soviet Union. Nazi Germany and the Japanese Empire were our enemies.

[jberryhill]

82. Yeah, and?

The British were certainly not the “allies” of the people of India at that time.

So, you are okay with Stalin t-shirts.

Got it.

[George II]

87. Who is talking about Stalin t-shirts except you?

[mcar]

94. Whataboutism!

[jberryhill]

95. Antidisestablishmentarianism!

Bagism, Shagism, Dragism, Madism, Ragism, Tagism
This-ism, that-ism, is-m, is-m, is-m

I shouted my word louder, so I win!

[betsuni]

80. K&R

[grossproffit]

116. Thank you so much for posting this. Utterly disgusting.

[GulfCoast66]

118. I can't believe no one has brought up the real reason he was sporting the Bose T-shirt...

You think these folks know all the history we have read on this thread? Maybe, but I doubt it.

Dude was a Socialist. That is the explanation.

It’s where their admiration begins and ends.

Like leftist wearing Castro T-shirts.

[JI7]

130. i think you mean the Che shirts they buy from Hot Topic

and feel like they are some revolutionary

[Recursion]

143. The ones made by child labor and sold at a profit to bougie teenagers?

Yeah, I never cease to be amazed at that.

[GulfCoast66]

150. Actually I meant Castro. But Che is a good analogy as well.

[brush]

155. A socialist perhaps but the nazi and fascism affiliation takes it way past just that.

Last edited Sat Jul 13, 2019, 01:06 PM - Edit history (1)

AOC's district has many Jewish constituents and she's got a problem.

[GulfCoast66]

160. Oh, certainly not excusing wearing it.

I just think they really think these things thru.

And there is s price to be paid.

[DashOneBravo]

119. That will go over well in labor union halls

[LAS14]

120. Why does a Bose tee shirt even exist? What...

... do wearers think they are promoting?

tia
las

[dalton99a]

123. Bose is revered by Hindu nationalists:

Link to tweet

[Recursion]

135. The airport in Kolkata is named after him. He's considered an important freedom fighter

He's incredibly popular among Bengalis in India

[LAS14]

158. Ah. OK, then, remembering us and STalin and the things that...

... happen with alliances, I think I'd give the wearer a break for his politics, but I would give him no excuses at all for incredibly bad judgement in wearing a complicated, never to be expalined in the U.S, tee shirt in public while holding his position. Stupidity is a good reason for dismissal.

[JonLP24]

127. I don't know him

I do know India was under British rule that they wanted out from under.


The attitude of the Legion's soldiers was similar to that of the Italian Battaglione Azad Hindoustan, which had been of dubious loyalty to the Axis cause—it was disbanded after a mutiny.[7][8] In one instance, immediately prior to the first deployment of the Legion in the Netherlands in April 1943, after the departure of the 1st Battalion from Königsbrück, two companies within the 2nd Battalion refused to move until convinced by Indian leaders.[37] Even in Asia, where the Indian National Army was much larger and fought the British directly, Bose faced similar obstacles at first. All of this goes to show that many of the men never possessed loyalty to the Nazi cause or ideology; the motivation of the Legion's men was to fight for India's independence.[37] The unit did allegedly participate in atrocities, especially in the Médoc region in July 1944,[38] and in the region of Ruffec[28] and the department of Indre during their retreat,[39] and in addition, some elements of the unit undertook anti-partisan operations in Italy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Legion#Perceptions_as_collaborators

[JI7]

132. Bose wanted ruthless dictatorship in India, Met with Mussolini during Trip to Europe

<Netaji Bose, by his own admission in his book, "Indian Struggle" (published in 1935 in London), believed India needed a political system that was a mix of fascism and communism — something that he called samyavad. Netaji made a special trip to Rome in 1935 to present a copy of his book to Italian dictator Benito Mussolini, whom he greatly admired and whose ideals he would follow for the rest of his life. Bose’s reactionary views naturally brought him into conflict with the pacifist leaders of Congress, most notably Mahatma Gandhi and Pandit Nehru. But the friction didn’t happen in 1935, it happened much earlier. >


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Netaji-Subhas-Chandra-Bose-wanted-ruthless-dictatorship-in-India-for-20-years/articleshow/46980513.cms

[Liberal In Texas]

133. She's going to have to address this.

She will have to realize that she's a politician, and may have to throw this guy under the bus.

Reality is a bitch.

Just saying.

[Recursion]

139. I've gotta be honest, I'm in Kolkata often enough that I wouldn't blink twice at a Netaji shirt

And then when I do argue with the uncles about his collaboration they'll bring out the pictures from the Bengal famine and point out the British killed more Bengalis with famine than the entire Holocaust.

Freedom struggles make strange bedfellows; it's not like George Washington was somehow an apologist for the ancien regime of France, but he took their help.

[kcr]

151. So AOC will explain that

And everyone will say, "Oh, okay then. That's a perfectly reasonable explanation to have a Nazi collaborator on your CoS's t-shirt. Carry on!" Because that's how it always goes. Dems have it so easy like that.

[mrdkitch]

154. The Rules

Just trying to understand the rules here. Are Wernher von Braun t-shirts okay to wear or not?