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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsUnreliable reports of U.S., Russian Sub Battle
Not a good source, and hope isn't true, but...
Debka: Urgent Consultations in Washington, Moscow on Reported US-Russian Submarines in Firefight
NOTE: DEBKA has been proven unreliable in the past but at times they do get things right.
Jul 2, 2019 @ 22:24 Diane Shalem
First reports reaching DEBKAfiles military sources say that a US submarine intercepted a Russian nuclear sub in American waters opposite Alaska. The Russian sub escorting the nuclear submarine responded with a Balkan 2000 torpedo and scuttled the US vessel. Urgent consultations in both the White House and the Kremlin were taking place on Tuesday night. US Vice President Mike Pence called off an appearance in New Hampshire after being recalled to Washington for a conference called by President Donald Trump without explanation.
Russian President Vladimir Putin cancelled an engagement and headed for the Kremlin to confer with Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and military chiefs, after learning that 14 submariners died in a fire that broke out on a nuclear-powered experimental submarine in Russian waters. This account carried in Russian media varies in most respects from the first reports reaching this site and may refer to a separate incident. They report between 14 and 17 members of an AS-12 nuclear powered submarine died of poisonous fumes caused by a fire aboard the vessel. The submarine was described as experimental and unarmed but often used in spy missions. It is unclear how many of the 25 crew survived. Local media suggest four or five are receiving treatment in Severomorsks military hospital for poisoning and concussion injuries. Another news account said the majority of the officers died in or on their way to hospital. These reports do not cite the cause of the fire.
https://www.debka.com/mivzak/urgent-consultations-in-washington-moscow-on-reported-us-russian-submarines-in-firefight/
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,586 posts)orangecrush
(19,611 posts)it will turn out to be untrue.
Tanuki
(14,920 posts)I have to laugh to keep from crying. I feel like the whole fucking world is about to blow up thanks to the incompetent asshole in the White House.
Nt
malaise
(269,157 posts)Brilliant
blueinredohio
(6,797 posts)tblue37
(65,483 posts)orangecrush
(19,611 posts)Putin may be using the fire on the experimental sub as cover for calling people in to Moscow.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)What are they getting at here? Putin was the commander of the U.S. ship?
orangecrush
(19,611 posts)This is an Israeli publication, perhaps a translation glitch?
orangecrush
(19,611 posts)Definition of scuttle (Entry 3 of 5)
transitive verb
1 : to cut a hole through the bottom, deck, or side of (a ship)
specifically : to sink or attempt to sink by making holes through the bottom
2 : DESTROY, WRECK
also : SCRAP sense 2
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scuttle
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuttling
I suppose it could be done by someone who had captured the vessel, but what the article seems to be referring to is "sinking."
It's just weird wording. Maybe you are right about it being a bad translation from Hebrew.
orangecrush
(19,611 posts)probably just bad translation.
Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #11)
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Everyman Jackal
(271 posts)Severomorsk is nowhere near Alaska.
orangecrush
(19,611 posts)is where the experimental Russian sub went, not the sub in the alleged firefight.
The experimental sub was possibly used as a cover story for Putin calling in his defense minister.
Claritie Pixie
(2,199 posts)Here's a link to the story:
https://news.usni.org/2019/07/02/14-sailors-die-on-secretive-russian-nuclear-submarine
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,402 posts)jpak
(41,758 posts)GreatCaesarsGhost
(8,585 posts)icymist
(15,888 posts)I've been searching all around the news for any word on this and have only found it on conservative sites. They are saying that an American submarine has been sunk off the coast of Alaska after engaging a Russian sub., which was damaged, but managed to return to it's base. Emergency meetings are taking place in Washington D.C., the Kremlin, the EU Security Council, and the British government.
Again, I am only reading this in conservative sites. I can't help but notice the timing; right after Iran announces it is enriching uranium in violation of the latest treaty. And the close look the House has been doing to tRump's concentration camps.
I don't trust Republicans. My Spidy sense says something is being arranged here.
orangecrush
(19,611 posts)But something is definitely going on.
Pence called back and Putin calls an emergency meeting.
They wouldn't call Pence back over a fire on a Russian mini sub.
And apparently the right thinks this will somehow work to their advantage.
icymist
(15,888 posts)WTF are the bastards up to?
LiberalArkie
(15,728 posts)dewsgirl
(14,961 posts)they often pounce and spin to benefit their narative). I did keep seeing a sentence about Trump wanting to keep this quite for two weeks...idk what to make of it. Could all be fake news. Neither government can be believed.
Everyman Jackal
(271 posts)on the Balkan 2000 torpedo?
sarisataka
(18,755 posts)Fictitious is another
orangecrush
(19,611 posts)dawg day
(7,947 posts)The Russian sub had all the casualties.
Unless we're not hearing about the US casualties from the torpedo?
Well, guess we'll know something soon.
Everyman Jackal
(271 posts)If this did take place Trump may not want it known. In that case, in a few days, the sub will have an accident in very deep water too deep for a safe salvage operation. And since this sub would have been on a highly classified mission the Navy would not be able to use non-military salvage companies.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Pretty much Israel's Drudge Report/Breitbart...
I mean for fuck's sake they couldn't even copy+paste the correct details of the *basic* story...
GuyNamedNathan
(89 posts)orangecrush
(19,611 posts)But there are still no answers.
Submariner
(12,506 posts)The VP returned to the WH instead of going to NH for a speech.
AP says:
But the sudden cancellation created confusion among White House and political reporters.
There is some speculation that the sudden cancellation has to do with a fire aboard a super secret Russian submarine.
The fire killed 14 Russian sailors, the Russian Defense Ministry said Tuesday without giving the cause of the blaze or saying if there were survivors.
The ministry didnt name the vessel that caught fire Monday, but Russian media reported it was Russias most secret submarine, a nuclear-powered vessel designed for sensitive missions at great ocean depths.
Russian President Vladimir Putin also canceled a scheduled appearance and summoned his defense minister to get briefed on the situation.
The Defense Ministrys statement said the submersible is intended for studying the seabed but didnt give its name or type. Russias RBC online news outlet reported it was the nuclear-powered AS-12 Losharik.
The Losharik, which entered service in 2010, is the most advanced and most obscure Russian submarine. Its named after a Soviet-era cartoon character, a toy horse made of small spheres.
The name is apparently explained by the unique design of its internal hull, which is made of several titanium spheres capable of withstanding high pressure at great depths.
In 2012, the Losharik was involved in research intended to prove Russias claim on the vast Arctic seabed. It collected samples from the depth of 8,202 feet, according to official statements at the time. Regular submarines can typically dive to depths of up to 2,000 feet.
Some observers speculated the Losharik was even capable of going as deep as 19,685 feet, but the claims couldnt be independently confirmed. Analysts suggested that one of its possible missions could be disrupting communication cables on the ocean bed.
The Losharik is carried under the hull of a mother submarine, the nuclear-powered Orenburg.
Russian news reports said that while the Losharik officially belongs to the Northern Fleet, it answers directly to the Defense Ministrys Department for Deep-Sea Research, reflecting the high sensitivity of its missions.
The Russian navy also uses Priz-class and Bester-class deep-water vehicles, which have a hull built of titanium and are capable of operating at a depth of 1,000 meters (3,281 feet). The small vehicles have a crew of two and are primarily intended for rescuing submariners in case of incidents. Such vessels are transported to the area of operation by a carrier vessel and can operate autonomously for up to 120 hours.
The blaze marks the most serious Russian naval incident since 2008, when 20 died when a firefighting system was accidentally initiated while the Nerpa nuclear-powered submarine of Russias Pacific Fleet was undergoing trials.
In the deadliest naval incident in post-Soviet Russia, the Kursk nuclear submarine exploded and sank on Aug. 12, 2000, during naval maneuvers in the Barents Sea, killing all 118 crewmembers.
T
Response to Submariner (Reply #32)
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