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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThird Way VP says it's time to tame capitalism
Via EJ Dionne who attended their meeting in SC last week:
Those sentences speak to a quiet revolution in the thinking of Democrats across the board since the 2008?economic downturn and especially since Trumps election. It can fairly be described as a leftward movement in the entire party. Sanders is often credited with moving the party left, and his proposals such as Medicare-for-all and free college (which came under sharp criticism here this week) have entered the mainstream conversation. But the language of left and center is imperfect in capturing the change. The new attitude toward the economys shortcomings is as much about the realities on the ground as it is about any ideological awakening.
After 2016, it was imperative for everyone in the party to sit back and ask: What have we done wrong? Matt Bennett, Third Ways executive vice president for public affairs and a veteran of the Clinton administration, told me. He vigorously defended both the Clinton and Obama presidencies, dismissing as preposterous the idea that they were failures.
Nonetheless, he added: We have to own some of the mistakes of the New Democrats of the Clinton era. Among them, he said, was underestimating the effect of trade liberalization on a significant number of blue-collar workers and the speed and ferocity with which technology would decimate certain sectors of the American workforce. A particularly negative effect of this was the concentration of opportunity in certain regions as large parts of the country were left behind.
We need to be working to tame capitalism at this moment, because it is not functioning well, he concluded. We need to do in this century what the progressives and New Dealers did in the last century.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/even-moderate-democrats-want-to-tame-capitalism/2019/06/19/11c9d5c4-92d0-11e9-b58a-a6a9afaa0e3e_story.html?utm_term=.b5d428a9d74b
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)What few progressives are left on DU preached this for over a decade... Third Way finally sees the light? JFC.
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)that defiantly claimed Third Way didn't even exist. Can't wait to see the contortions in replies to your OP, but my guess is that it's all too inconvenient and the thread will sink like a stone. I'll do my part to keep it afloat.
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)And rub my eyes in between.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)JHB
(37,161 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)appalachiablue
(41,146 posts)Last edited Thu Jun 20, 2019, 12:04 AM - Edit history (1)
here's another post okaying Warren by Bennett. Wonder of wonders...
-------------------------------------
(Sacbee)" Why Elizabeth Warren doesn't scare many moderate Democrats,," June 19, 2019.
CHARLESTON, S.C. -- Many moderate Democratic leaders have reached a surprising conclusion about Elizabeth Warren: Theyd actually feel comfortable if she won the partys presidential nomination.
She might be an unabashed liberal, they say, but at least shes a talented candidate and shes much more acceptable than democratic socialist Bernie Sanders.
The thing about Warren is that she is staying within the lines of what is manageable, said Matt Bennett, co-founder of the center-left group Third Way, who also praised Warrens recent visit in South Carolina as very impressive. She believes in capitalism, amazingly we have to say this, but that matters. What shes offering is not a rejection of capitalism.
She is not tipping over the edge into what is absolutely unsustainable in a general election, he added. Our principle problem with Sanders is that he has. https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287155696
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Doesn't exist... la la la la! Step aside Sensible Centrists, you've done enough damage. Decades lost. Now Trump and damage on steroids. We don't need Third Way to dictate what is "manageable" or "unsustainable."
Just noticed Warren edged out Biden on this site. Interesting. Still very early, but interesting.
appalachiablue
(41,146 posts)Warren is running a super campaign.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)And nary a peep from the opera-goers, as predicted.
PatrickforO
(14,577 posts)entrepreneurs, and for people who just plain are willing to work hard. But they should be able to get ahead if they do work hard and do all the right things. Just a decently level playing field.
One of the things Obama said struck me, and that is that he felt the key to everything was in implementing good policies.
The Senator does have a definite grasp on good policy and what that looks like. I won't belabor it because this is GD.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Way to start a winning argument, NOT!!!!!! There a very large number of very left progressive on DU. As a matter of fact, left-center types like me are a distinct minority and there maybe a handful of true centrists here.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)There's been a rightward shift at this site since its inception. May have something to do with why it no longer seems to get much traction, which is sad.
Tiggeroshii
(11,088 posts)As long as warren or sanders are nominated
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)babylonsister
(171,070 posts)That's a long time for a shift to happen.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)"There's been a rightward shift at this site since its inception", says a member since 2013.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Seriously, think before you type.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)class go through. They have the same, poisonous "I got mine, fuck you" attitude of the Republican dominated "Silent Generation", just they are louder about it.
tblue37
(65,408 posts)I very much consider myself a Progressive, and I am delighted to see the party move back to FDR 's principles.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Its easy to be defensive about generations, but I'll freely admit that Generation X, of which I'm a member of, isn't nearly left enough compared to Millennials, even though I'm personally a socialist and much further to the left than even most Millennials.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)In every democratic primary that I have been eligible to vote in, I started out support the most progressive candidate in the race and shifted to someone else only if my preferred candidate flamed out.
I think that trying to put DU members into camps is both wrong and a bit disingenuous.
keithbvadu2
(36,829 posts)tblue37
(65,408 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)and Sanders was my top choice in 2016 because of his economic message. That, and his 'no' vote on Iraq. We're all going to continue to suffer under Dirty Don until the Democratic Party gets serious about income inequality and the plight of working class people. And for the record, I'm disgusted when people on this site and social media in general trash out-of-work coal miners and steel workers. Coal and steel built this nation. Want to lose PA, MI, and WI again, geniuses?
Response to SMC22307 (Reply #29)
appalachiablue This message was self-deleted by its author.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)Surely part of the path to success...
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)There's a contingent on DU of people who mostly are retired who heckle ideas like a 15 dollar minimum wage increase or UHC programs etc. These assholes don't work fucking 60+ hours a week at about 12 dollars an hour. They can just shut the fuck up now. I lost my tolerance for "third way" austerity driven neo-liberals.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)if the defense is starting to look like offense. I guess it's true what Vince Lombardi said about that.
Traffic Interruptus
(38 posts)Magoo48
(4,716 posts)I too see little support here for progressive politics.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Equal rights for everyone, PERIOD.
Equal pay for equal work.
Access to affordable, high quality healthcare for everyone regardless of income.
Access to affordable housing options regardless of income.
Access to high quality, public education in schools that have properly paid public school teachers. Schools that provide each child two free nutritious meals per day and one free snack per day.
Access to affordable higher education or a trade school training. No student should walk out of school with debt that is more than 20% of the lowest first year salary for their major or trade.
Access to safe public transportation to people that don't drive. Routes should cover all of cities and counties with waits no longer than 15 minutes.
Foreign policy that emphasizes having discussions on peaceful resolution of differences instead of war as a first choice.
aidbo
(2,328 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)The English language can be wonderful.
hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)But then I'm an unreconstructed Keynesian.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Krugman, Stiglitz, and the size of Obama's economic stimulus package. Can't believe it's been ten years.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Democrats are the ones who created regulations on business, not the ones who destroyed them. In 50 years as a Democratic legislator, Biden's been involved in passing a lot of legislation, including regulations.
Republicans are the destroyers, and they were and are empowered by the feckless whiners who refused to vote to protect the very regulations they're howling bloody murder now about losing. It's always everyone else's fault for them. No need to know who, just go after Democrats with recognizable names. Why? Ask political psychologists.
And let's not pretend that all the whiners and wall-punchers here have been voting conscientiously all along to protect what those who came before, including Biden, created. Having no idea of who's to blame and who to stand and fight with is not how those who have always been engaged Democrats behave.
To put it mildly.
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)obnoxiousdrunk
(2,910 posts)Third Way Manny ...
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)Reminds me of things I dont miss all that much.
Tiggeroshii
(11,088 posts)This coupled with the fact they are ready to get behind Warren to beat Bernie. Im okay with it!
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)Its nighttime and I will stick with that thought for a few more hours. The devil will be in the details.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)...to one of the most obnoxious posters DU has ever seen.
Talk about a guy who was funny only in his own mind.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)plucky woman from the frozen tundra. Obnoxious, indeed.
honest.abe
(8,678 posts)That poster was talented but clueless or just enjoyed pissing people off.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)He had his fair share of fans here for a while, but most of them left along with him in Summer 2016.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Or the fact that both GenX(my generation) and Millennials are worse off by every economic measure than their parents and grandparents, and this was done on fucking purpose!
40% of households are a couple of paychecks away from homelessness, home ownership has decreased between generations for the first time in a century, savings are at a all time low, most of the working class are fucked if they have an unexpected 400 dollar bill(including me, btw). But let's not look at all the administrations that failed our generations, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama and fucking Trump administrations have a lot to answer for. At best, Obama delayed some medical expense shocks for quite a few years and increased insurance coverage. Clinton helped ensure that our wages stayed stagnant, thanks for that, asshole. Don't have any expectations from Republicans outside of them attempting to privatize what little support we get that prevents us from using more drastic actions.
hatrack
(59,587 posts)And they're here with this year's change in the sheet metal: "See! We're not that bad! We're . . . . not as bad as . . . Trump!!"
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Comforting, eh?
, indeed.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)What time is it in Hawaii? Mahalo! See you in the morning.
riverine
(516 posts)Then I am a proud Third Way proponent.
Our wealth inequality is a result of poor tax policy and both Clinton and Obama raised top end tax rates as much as possible. Obama raised capital gains taxes to help pay for health care for the poor.
Celerity
(43,415 posts)Regulating capitalism, curbing its excesses and cronyism is not opposing it at all.
riverine
(516 posts)ever.
Dodd-Frank replaced the piss-weak Glass Steagall and actually regulated ratings agencies, put a "death panel" on the big banks who let their capital levels fall, stopped prop trading, set up a consumer protection agency, etc etc etc - all after fining the big banks hundreds of billions of dollars.
He fined BP $30 billion and distributed that money to victims.
Obama also replaced NAFTA with a much better trade pact (where he was failed by progressives like Sanders/Warren).
More than FDR?
riverine
(516 posts)and the creation of Social Security.
But from a regulatory view Obama did more.
The ACA requires that insurers offer comprehensive plans, real banking overhaul, etc.
Things are a lot more complex these days.
Celerity
(43,415 posts)Dodd-Frank was passed in 2010, 11 years AFTER Glass-Steagall was repealed. Dodd-Frank itself which was watered down and was partially written by the giant financial institutions themselves, and has been further weakened as time has went by. It did NOT replace Glass Steagall (which was FAR from 'piss-weak'.) The financial regulation passed under FDR were far far more robust than the ones that eventually replaced them under Obama (over a decade later and AFTER a systemic and nightmarish 30 plus trillion USD global financial meltdown directly tied to their removal).
Glass-Steagall was disastrously repealed in 1999, under Clinton (with a massive push from both the Rethugs and also the 3rd way Democrats), via the horrendous Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999. That repeal, along with the equally odious Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 (which re-legalised most all forms of directives, which had been outlawed since the 1930's) both helped lay the groundwork for the financial crash that started in 2006, really gained speed in 2007, and engulfed the world in socio-economic conflagration in 2008 and 2009. All that occurred under the Clinton regime, with people like Lawrence Summers, Robert Rubin, etc working hand in hand with Republicans like Phil Graham, etc. as well as Fed chairman, Greenspan.
Looking Back at the Repeal of Glass-Steagall, or, How the Banks Caught Casino Fever
http://rooseveltinstitute.org/looking-back-repeal-glass-steagall-or-how-banks-caught-casino-fever/
How Congress Rushed a Bill that Helped Bring the Economy to Its Knees (Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000)
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-congress-rushed-a-bil_b_181926
Brooksley Born, at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) from 1996 to 1999 warned like hell of the dangers of derivatives and the massive de-regulation going on and was shut out by Rubin, Summer, Greenspans, etc al.
Brooksley Born warned about the risks of derivatives
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/brooksley-born-warned-about-the-risks-of-derivatives/
Here is a superb PBS documentary on Born and the way the 3rd-wayers, the neoliberals, the Rethugs, the supply-sider cultists, and Greenspan (all under massive pressure from the systemic-controlling banks) utterly ignored and neutralised her:
PBS FRONTLINE
The Warning
Season 28 Episode 2 | 56m 7s
Long before the economic meltdown, one woman tried to warn about the threat to the financial system...
Aired: 10/20/09
https://www.pbs.org/video/frontline-the-warning/
finally
you said
I have no idea what you are talking about. NAFTA is still in effect, as the Trumpian-negotiated United StatesMexicoCanada Agreement (which still keeps large amount of NAFTA provisions in place) has not been ratified by Congress.
The closest Obama came to 'replacing NAFTA' was the failed (and rightly so) TPP.
The TPP was a bad deal, and not just because of the horrid ISDS (Investor-State Dispute Settlement mechanisms, that give private multinational firms the right to sue and reverse our own, and all other signatories', sovereign laws), and patent ever-greening provisions (which will EXPLODE pharmaceutical prices, along with many other things).
Support for bad 'free' trade (not fair trade) deals like the TPP is partially (the percentage is up for debate but is surely more than a tiny amount) why we have such discontent here in our nation, discontent that just further adds to the latent and overt sexism, racism, misogyny, and hate that monsters like Trump tapped into. It just gave him another arrow in his quiver of poison for his mob.
The TPP also would have been a fundamental driver for further wealth inequality, here and globally, and wealth inequality is the number one interlocked statistic when it comes to the well-being of a society on basically all levels of measurement.
But do not take my word for it..............
Why TPP Is a Bad Deal for America and American Workers
BY JOSEPH STIGLITZ
http://rooseveltinstitute.org/why-tpp-bad-deal-america-and-american-workers/
the whole series
Tricks of the Trade Deal: Six Big Problems with the Trans-Pacific Partnership
http://rooseveltinstitute.org/tricks-trade-deal-six-big-problems-trans-pacific-partnership/
How to Tell TPP Is a Bad Deal
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-to-tell-tpp-is-a-bad_b_8914388
9 Ways the TPP Is Bad for Developing Countries
https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/07/07/9-ways-the-tpp-is-bad-for-developing-countries/
The Trans-Pacific Partnership Is Unlikely to Be a Good Deal for American Workers
https://www.epi.org/publication/tpp-unlikely-to-be-good-deal-for-american-workers/
The TPP has the potential for real harm
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-16/verrender-the-tpp-has-the-potential-for-real-harm/6321538
Ending the corporate power grab of Investor-State Dispute Settlement
https://www.citizen.org/topic/globalization-trade/corporate-power-expanded-isds/
How trade deals like TPP fail the global poor
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2015/11/6/9680538/tpp-development-trade-poverty
Robert Reich takes on the Trans-Pacific Partnership
How economic inequality harms societies | Richard Wilkinson
riverine
(516 posts)I know damn well you don't know the difference between an MBS and a derivative.
Derivatives did NOT cause the crisis in any way.
Millions of shitty loans that people could not repay did. In turn when those loans went bad it set some derivatives off but only AFTERWARDS.
Celerity
(43,415 posts)Also, blaming people for
GOODBYE
shanny
(6,709 posts)That was outstanding. Thank you!
Celerity
(43,415 posts)I have on been here a year, and I am only 23, but I have went back and used DU search on numerous occasions because I have seen so many references to the past history of (especially) economic policy debate on the board.
It is just a general feeling, based off only a few hundred OP's from the past that I scanned, but it seems at multiple times (especially when I end up on some older, less glossy version of this board (it is archived) that there used to be a far more vigorous (not to mention balanced) debate on the socio-economic underpinnings of what direction our Party was taking (or was moving away from).
I can only imagine what it must have been like (granted DU apparently did not exist then in any form, in fact the modern web did not even fully exist other than rudimentary chat boards for the very first part) in the 1993 to late 2000 period. Hell, for the first 3 years of that time-span I was not even born, lol.
I look back at the events (in terms of US economic legislation) of 1999 and 2000 with mild horror. It is just amazing that a consensus (big enough to ramrod through such monstrous de-regulation) was able to be formed between the two parties large enough to allow the abyss door to be partially opened up (and still left far more ajar today than it was prior to that realignment.)
Minus the consensus (utterly minus), I am sure future generations will do much the same with the 2016 onward electoral choices of our nation. Hopefully 2020 puts paid to this ever-quickening descent into a tripartite nightmare of
1 absolute, unchecked rapacious corporatism fuelling destruction of the oversight state and driving wealth inequality to socio-economic breakdown levels
2 crackpot racialist-underpinned white nationalism creating a probable end-term (for the union) balkanisation and dissolution of the nation
3 faux fundamentalist religion-run-amok imposed fascism at most all levels, from the personal to the collective zeitgeist, leading potentially to a near-complete rollback of all post-Brown v Board civil rights
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)Even they now acknowledge that Clintons faith in markets was excessive and ultimately harmful. As for Obama, the record is mixed. ACA, tax hikes and the stimulus package helped people but the foreclosure crisis was underfunded and largely botched, homeownership declined on his watch and income inequality continued to soar. Could he have done more with cooperation from Republicans? Sure, but Democrats lost ground at all levels of government from 2010-16 which only weakened his hand.
Warren and Sanders, even though their goals are similar, are not at all the same. Warren is a former Republican who believes in markets. She wants more progressive capitalism. Bernie is a Socialist who sees Warrens approach as too corporate-friendly.
riverine
(516 posts)saving them an average of $2800 per year in mortgage costs.
He was VERY successful considering the enormity of the problem. He saved the domestic auto industry.
And this statement:
Clintons faith in markets was excessive and ultimately harmful.
is nonsensical.
The Clinton economy was vibrant and even resulted in a federal surplus. The crisis of 2008 had nothing to do with Bill Clinton policy despite claims otherwise. Millions of Liar loans written 2002-2007 were not his fault but were more a sign of economic success.
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)Obama promised to spend $50-$100 billion on the foreclosure crisis. He spent $28 billion. The original goal was to help 4 million homeowners avoid foreclosure; 1.6 million were helped and 1/3 of those fell behind their payments again. It was a big, sprawling disaster, banks routinely lost paperwork and botched the process, and Tim Geithners Treasury Dept. was slow to force them to play by the rules.
As for Clinton, in addition to repealing Glass Steagall, he signed the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which exempted credit-default swaps from regulation. Thank you Bob Rubin. I refer you to Bennetts quote above; mistakes were made. They always are. It has just taken too long for certain people to course correct.
riverine
(516 posts)More than 3.3 Million People Have Saved With HARP. Could you?
More than four million took advantage.
Your numbers are wrong.
And Glass Steagall was worthless by 2000. Even Elizabeth Warren said so.
And the only CDS that went bad were in London (insured by AIG).
I don't know why some people want to piss on the accomplishments of Clinton and Obama.
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)Have a nice day.
Response to riverine (Reply #54)
Celerity This message was self-deleted by its author.
Celerity
(43,415 posts)LOL
Glass-Steagall was repealed in 1999! It was NEVER useless, it was hard firewall between the casino market gambling investment banks and the thrifts (who were eviscerated in the 2006-2009 collapse, just ask Washington Mutual, the biggest one, who was DESTROYED and its carcass bought up by JP Moran-Chase for pennies on the dollar)
Also, Warren wants to re-instate it, she never called it 'worthless', that is madness
Senators Warren, McCain, Cantwell and King Introduce 21st Century Glass-Steagall Act
https://www.warren.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/senators-warren-mccain-cantwell-and-king-introduce-21st-century-glass-steagall-act
Introduction Follows Announcements of Support for Reinstating Glass-Steagall from the President and Administration, Inclusion in Both Democratic and Republican Party Platforms
Bill Text (PDF)
Washington, D.C. - United States Senators Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), John McCain (R-Ariz.), Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.), and Angus King (I-Maine) today will re-introduce the 21st Century Glass-Steagall Act, a modern version of the Banking Act of 1933 (Glass-Steagall) that protects American taxpayers, helps community banks and credit unions compete, and decreases the likelihood of future financial crises. Reinstating Glass-Steagall has broad bipartisan support from the public and policymakers, including from President Trump, Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, and National Economic Council Director Gary Cohn. Both the 2016 Democratic and Republican party platforms supported reinstating Glass-Steagall.
The legislation, first introduced in the 113th Congress by Senators Warren, McCain, Cantwell and King, would separate traditional banks that have savings and checking accounts and are insured by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation from riskier financial institutions that offer services such as investment banking, insurance, swaps dealing, and hedge fund and private equity activities. The bill would clarify regulatory interpretations of banking law provisions that undermined the protections under the original Glass-Steagall and would make "Too Big to Fail" institutions smaller and safer, minimizing the likelihood of a government bailout.
and
is utterly FALSE, blatantly so, trillions were lost globally, huge amounts of that OTC-traded credit default swaps, AIG was but one entity that was crushed (just ask the COUNTRY of Greece, hello Goldman Sachs!)
The Crisis of Wealth Destruction
http://rooseveltinstitute.org/crisis-wealth-destruction/
Henry C.K. Liu argues that the poorly targeted stimulus and bailouts have caused long-lasting damage to global wealth.
The financial crisis that first broke out in the US around the summer of 2007 and crested around the autumn of 2008 had destroyed $34.4 trillion of wealth globally by March 2009, when the equity markets hit their lowest points. On October 31, 2007, the total market value of publicly-traded companies around the world reached a high of $63 trillion. A year and four months later, by early March 2009, the value had dropped more than half to $28.6 trillion. The lost wealth, $34.4 trillion, is more than the 2008 annual gross domestic product (GDP) of the US, the European Union and Japan combined. This wealth deficit effect would take at least a decade to replenish even if these advanced economies were to grow at mid single digit rate after inflation and only if no double dip materializes in the markets. At an optimistic componded annual growth rate of 5%, it would take over 10 years to replenish the lost wealth in the US economy.
In the US where the crisis originated in mid-2007 after two decades of monetary excess that encouraged serial debt bubbles, the NYSE Euronext (US) market capitalization was $16.6 trillion in June 2007, more than concurrent US GDP of $13.8 trillion. The market cap fell by almost half to $7.9 trillion by March 2009. US households lost almost $8 trillion of wealth in the stock market on top of the $6 trillion loss in the market value of their homes. The total wealth loss of $14 trillion by US households in 2009 was equal to the entire 2008 US GDP. As the financial crisis broke out first in the US in July 2007, world market capitalization took some time to feel the full impact of contagion radiating from New York which did not register fully globally until after October 2007. In 2008 alone, market capitalization in EAME (Europe Africa Middle East) economies lost $10 trillion and Asian shares lost around $9.6 trillion.
Government Bailouts, Stimulus Packages and Jobless Recovery
As a result of over $20 trillion of government bailout/stimulus commitments/spending that began in 2008 worldwide, the critically impaired global equity markets finally began to show tenuous signs of stabilization only two years later by the end of 2009. Yet total world market capitalization was still only $46.6 trillion by the end of January 2010, $16.4 trillion below its peak in October 2007. The amount of wealth lost worldwide in 2009 still exceeded 2009 US GDP of $14.2 trillion by $2.2 trillion. The NYSE Euronext (US) market capitalization was $12.2 trillion in January 2010, recovering from its low at $7.9 trillion in March 2009, but still $4.4 trillion below its peak at $16.6 trillion in June 2007.
US GDP in first quarter 2009 fell 6.3% annualized rate while fourth quarter of 2009 surged 5.7% mostly as a result of public sector spending equaling over 60% of annual GDP. The US government bailout and stimulus package to respond to the financial crisis added up to $9.7 trillion, enough to pay off more than 90% of the nations home mortgages, calculated at $10.5 trillion by the Federal Reserve. Yet home foreclosure rate continued to climb because only distressed financial institutions were bailed out, but not distressed homeowners. Take away public sector spending, US GDP would fall by over 50%. This is the reason why no exit strategy can be expected to be implemented soon in the US.
It took $20 trillion of public funds over a period of two and a half years to lift the total world market capitalization of listed companies by $16.4 trillion. This means some $3.6 trillion, or 17.5%, had been burned up by transmission friction. Government intervention failed to produce a dollar-for-dollar break-even impact on battered markets, let alone generating any multiplier effect which in normal time could be expected to generate a multiplying effect of between 9 and 11 times. In the mean time, the real global economy, detached from the equity markets, with the exception of Chinas, continues to slide downward, with rising unemployment and underemployment.
snip
https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/finance/credit-default-swap-cds/
What is a Credit Default Swap (CDS)?
A credit default swap (CDS) is a type of credit derivative that provides the buyer with protection against default and other risks. The buyer of a CDS makes periodic payments to the seller until the credit maturity date. In the agreement, the seller commits that, if the debt issuer defaults, the seller will pay the buyer all premiums and interests that wouldve been paid up to the date of maturity.
Through a credit swap, a buyer can take risk control measures by shifting the risk to an insurance company in exchange for periodic payments. Just like an insurance policy, a CDS allows purchasers to buy protection against an unlikely event that may affect the investment.
Credit default swaps came into existence in 1994 when they were invented by Blythe Masters from JP Morgan. They became popular in the early 2000s, and by 2007, the outstanding credit default swaps value stood at $62.2 trillion. During the financial crisis of 2008, the value of CDS was hit hard, and it dropped to $26.3 trillion by 2010 and $25.5 trillion in 2012. There was no legal framework to regulate swaps, and the lack of transparency in the market became a concern among regulators.
snip
https://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/05/21/reinstating-an-old-rule-is-not-a-cure-for-crisis/
Glass Steagall did not apply to investment banks Goldman, Lehman, Morgan Stanley, Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch and thousands of small banks.
Celerity
(43,415 posts)number one, is was HAMP, not HARP, that was the most problematic programme and it was not 4 million helped by HARP in any regard
see here:
Obamas Foreclosure Relief Program Was Designed to Help Bankers, Not Homeowners
https://billmoyers.com/2015/02/14/needless-default/
snip
Politicians, economists and commentators are debating the causes of the rise in inequality of income and wealth. But one primary cause is beyond debate: the housing collapse, and the governments failure to remedy the aftermath. According to economists Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman, the bottom 90 percent of Americans saw one-third of their wealth wiped out between 2007 and 2009, and there has been no recovery since. This makes sense, as a great deal of the wealth held by the middle and working classes, particularly among African-Americans and Hispanics, is in home equity, much of which evaporated after the bubble popped. The effects have been most severe in poor and working-class neighborhoods, where waves of foreclosure drove down property values, even on sound, well-financed homes. Absent a change in policy, Saez and Zucman warn, all the gains in wealth democratization achieved during the New Deal and the postwar decades could be lost.
President Obama will carry several legacies into his final two years in office: a long-sought health care reform, a fiscal stimulus that limited the impact of the Great Recession, a rapid civil rights advance for gay and lesbian Americans. But if Obama owns those triumphs, he must also own this tragedy: the dispossession of at least 5.2 million US homeowner families, the explosion of inequality, and the largest ruination of middle-class wealth in nearly a century. Though some policy failures can be blamed on Republican obstruction, it was within Obamas power to remedy this one to ensure that a foreclosure crisis now in its eighth year would actually end, with relief for homeowners to rebuild wealth, and to preserve Americans faith that their government will aid them in times of economic struggle.
Faced with numerous options to limit the foreclosure damage, the administration settled on a policy called HAMP, the Home Affordable Modification Program, which was entirely voluntary. Under HAMP, mortgage companies were given financial inducements to modify loans for at-risk borrowers, but the companies alone, not the government, made the decisions on whom to aid and whom to cast off.
In the end, HAMP helped only about one million homeowners in five years, when 10 million were at risk. The program arguably created more foreclosures than it stopped, as it put homeowners through a maze of deception designed mainly to maximize mortgage industry profits. More about how HAMP worked, or didnt, in a moment.
HAMP cannot be justified by the usual Obama-era logic, that it represented the best possible outcome in a captured Washington with Republican obstruction and supermajority hurdles. Before Obamas election, Congress specifically authorized the executive branch, through the $700 billion bank bailout known as TARP, to prevent avoidable foreclosures. And Congress pointedly left the details up to the next president. Swing senators like Olympia Snowe (Maine), Ben Nelson (Nebraska) and Susan Collins (Maine) played no role in HAMPs design. It was entirely a product of the administrations economic team, working with the financial industry, so it represents the purest indication of how they prioritized the health of financial institutions over the lives of homeowners.
snip
also you said
the 'surplus' was a mirage, it resulted from a change in the national accounting ledgers
https://treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current
Here is a table of the national debt and the claimed surpluses for the last 4 Clinton fiscal years:
Notice that while the public debt went down in each of those four years, the intragovernmental holdings went up each year by a far greater amount.....and, in turn, the total national debt (which is public debt + intragovernmental holdings) went up.
That is how a 'surplus' was claimed.
The national debt went up every single year. What the government did do was pay down the public debt (the claimed 'surplus' is fairly close to the decrease in the public debt for those years). But it paid down the public debt by borrowing far more money in the form of intragovernmental holdings (mostly from Social Security).
riverine
(516 posts)FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
5/16/2016
Washington, D.C. The Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA) today announced that more than 3.4 million homeowners have refinanced their mortgages through the Home Affordable Refinance Program (HARP). FHFA's first quarter Refinance Report shows that more than 19,000 HARP refinances were completed through March, bringing the total to 3,400,543 refinances since the program began in 2009.
https://www.fhfa.gov/Media/PublicAffairs/Pages/HARP-Refinances-Surpass-3-4-Million.aspx
And Treasury debt did climb for statutory reasons -- Social Security MUST invest surpluses into special issue US Treasuries. Thus "debt" climbs in a great economy.
You're way out of your league here, pal.
If you want to go bash Democrats please go to Breitbart.
Celerity
(43,415 posts)roflmaooooooooooooooo
so done
riverine
(516 posts)and you spew GOP talking points about the Clinton economy.
You don't know how SS surpluses are invested into Treasuries.
You don't know that Warren said that Glass Steagall was antiquated and would not have prevented the 2008 Banking Crisis.
Celerity
(43,415 posts)is just factually wrong on every single point, as I have meticulously shown
riverine
(516 posts)Celerity
(43,415 posts)AND this whole thing started out with YOU positing a what has been a 'GOP talking point',by trying to intimate that progressives oppose capitalism as your way of defending the vastly discredited 3rd-way schema
that is pure RW tosh
Celerity
(43,415 posts)problematic (as evidenced by my linked article), I amended my original post for clarity in that regard.
Caliman73
(11,738 posts)Without significant policies that interfere with the structure of capitalism, the system will ALWAYS end up promoting wealth inequality. To not understand that is to fail basic economics.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)appalachiablue
(41,146 posts)And today SE Cupp on CNN did a segment with Third Way head, MATT BENNETT. Huh?
TheBlackAdder
(28,209 posts).
Republicans are not pragmatic. They are hardened to their positions.
Pragmatism is a fallacy if one or more of the parties are not pragmatic.
Starting a negotiation at the 50 yard line ensures the best possible outcome of half, worse a complete loss.
This favors Republicans.
.
PatrickforO
(14,577 posts)Now, I'm definitely to the left of center, but that last sentence, We need to be working to tame capitalism at this moment, because it is not functioning well, he concluded. We need to do in this century what the progressives and New Dealers did in the last century, that is quite, quite true.
See, I'm worried. Have been. Am writing seriously now about the corrosive effect of the primacy of the shareholder doctrine on everything.
Now, when I see that sentence, I feel some hope that it isn't just the lefties that are saying stuff like this, but the centrists too.
If we have another New Deal, I'm IN. It isn't perfect, and we aren't perfect. But I'm seeing that everyone except a few kluxers and nazis want good change. Healthcare, affordable college, and aggressive efforts to build up infrastructure in the context of a Green New Deal. That's what I want.
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)When most people are moving sideways-to-down financially while a tiny sliver hoovers up the bulk of the gains, solutions that would have been considered radical even ten years ago are needed. Trump won by 74 EVs in no small part because enough voters thought his economic rhetoric was more responsive reality than ours. It was a scam, but even the Third Way has recognized that our political and economic playbook is sorely in need of an update.