@AOC tweet to Liz Cheney......

[riversedge]

Cheney is a SOB. I hear she is prob. running for the Senate in WY.



Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Verified account @AOC

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Retweeted Liz Cheney

Hey Rep. Cheney, since you’re so eager to “educate me,” I’m curious:

What do YOU call building mass camps of people being detained without a trial?

How would you dress up DHS’s mass separation of thousands children at the border from their parents?

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez added,
Liz Cheney
Verified account @Liz_Cheney
Please @AOC do us all a favor and spend just a few minutes learning some actual history. 6 million Jews were exterminated in the Holocaust. You demean their memory and disgrace yourself with comments like this.

Link to tweet

…
9:41 AM - 18 Jun 2019

Link to tweet

[BlueJac]

1. K&R

[Sanity Claws]

2. AOC is 100% correct.

Generally the first concentration camps were considered to be the ones that the British created in the Boer War.

The term concentration camp is not synonymous with the Holocaust. Cheney and her ilk are ignorant and trying to confuse the issue.

[dansolo]

7. No, she is wrong

"Never again" is specifically in reference to the Holocaust. AOC is the one confusing the issue.

[volstork]

14. What makes you think

that is not exactly where this is heading?

I see NO confusion on her part.

[Kind of Blue]

15. No, she isn't and you need an update on the phrase

that keeps pace to address wickedness. Run your strict terminology by http://neveragain.org/ that "serve people in danger, connecting at-risk individuals and communities". Run it by https://www.neveragain.com/about/ that "support a variety of causes by sharing their missions, goals, and stories with our audience." Run it by http://neveragainrwanda.org whose mission is Peacebuilding, Governance & Rights, Education, Research & Advocacy, Sustainable Livelihood, Great Lakes program and Youth engagement.

How about https://www.facebook.com/NeverAgainMSD/ "Run by survivors of the Stoneman Douglas shooting. We are sick of the Florida lawmakers choosing money from the NRA over our safety. #NeverAgain"

Or https://www.neveragainfoundation.org/ whose mission is "to bring hope, justice, and healing to victims of domestic violence murder by providing holistic non-profit legal representation in the civil, probate and family courts."

Oh-oh, what about it's earliest usage as title of a silent film https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0269620/

And https://neveragain.tech/ that refuses to "build a database of people based on their Constitutionally-protected religious beliefs. We refuse to facilitate mass deportations of people the government believes to be undesirable."

“And Elie Wiesel, the Holocaust survivor and author who came to be associated with the phrase, also used it in the universal sense.

'Never again’ becomes more than a slogan: It’s a prayer, a promise, a vow … never again the glorification of base, ugly, dark violence,” the Nobel laureate wrote in 2012.

"Never Again is a phrase that keeps on evolving. It was used in protests against the Muslim ban and in support of refugees, in remembrance of Japanese internment during World War II and recalling the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. And now the phrase is taking on yet another life: in the fight for gun control in America. https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Never-Again-From-a-Holocaust-phrase-to-a-universal-phrase-544666

The list of usage is long. Never Again is now ubiquitous. Please, try to keep up instead of the unconscious attempt to derail the point of the OP.

[gabeana]

17. good post

[Kind of Blue]

21. Thanks a lot

[Blue_true]

31. Excellent post.

Last edited Tue Jun 18, 2019, 09:33 PM - Edit history (1)

The term is used as a statement that we must stay vigilante because if we do not, human tragedy on a massive scale will happen before we can put an end to it. It is relevant NOW, and AOC pointed that out.

[Kind of Blue]

38. So true. And thanks, Blue_true.

I won't say who said this because it might detract from the OP. But it goes...

I grew up feeling the pathos expressed in the declaration, “Never again!” However, you must understand that this not an exclusive directive. When it is not applied to *all* human beings it rings a hollow tone.

[Blue_true]

40. You last paragraph cuts to the heart of what AOC was saying, IMO. Take care. nt

[Kind of Blue]

42. You too, Blue_true.

[Blue_true]

29. She is right.

The Holocaust happened because a demagogue was allowed to demonize a class of people. It can and will happen again if we don't focus on the root cause of it, an evil man ginning up hatred. AOC is on target.

[Kind of Blue]

41. Let's put to rest the "specific reference to the Holocaust."

"Never again!: a protest and a warning addressed to the peoples of Europe by Edward Carpenter" 1916

[UpInArms]

44. It is a gradual creeping process

6 million people were not imprisoned illegally and killed immediately... it was the culmination of years of horror ... we should not become inured to what is happening

[BlueMTexpat]

47. WOW!

Just wow!

The Holocaust did not occur overnight and the Holocaust did not only happen to Jews. It happened in stages and specifically involved target groups such as Jews, Roma, Jehovah's Witnesses. Mentally and Physically Disabled Persons, and Homosexuals. Anyone else that the Nazis deemed to be undesirable for one reason or another was added to the group on an ad hoc basis. These included political enemies, Slavic peoples (all of whom received much worse treatment than Western Europeans), those who helped the above-mentioned specifically identified victims, and anyone else who dared to speak out against them or resist in other ways. Etc., etc. etc.

What is happening now in the US - right before our eyes - is eerily reminiscent of one of those stages: the incarceration and separation of families of specifically-identified target groups.

Not all concentration camps were death camps, although if those who were incarcerated died, that was considered to be a bonus. Most were starved, abused and forced to work and died as a result.

But all specific death camps were also concentration camps.

[xxqqqzme]

54. King con has stopped Sports and

English education too. Also tactics.

Right after graduation, I worked at the Dept of education in Palm Springs. A woman came in to apply for a cafeteria position. I gave her an application to fill out. She looked at it and asked if I would help her. She explained that she had never learned to read or write because it was prohibited. I helped her but as I did, it dawned on me without literacy how could she work in a cafeteria or anywhere.

First post high school lesson

[delisen]

3. The Nazis rounded up people and put them in camps first

The 6 million killings came later and over a period of time.

The comparison Cortez is making is accurate.

Liz Cheney should be working to protect children, not imprisoning them. Is her acceptable standard for our government's treatment of children that mass killings have not yet occurred?

[cwydro]

39. It was actually 11 million.

6 million were Jews.

The others were gay people, “foreigners,” political prisoners, Romany people, and others.

[Beringia]

4. Good for her

[Red Pest]

5. What does the Honorable Liz Cheney call the camps that the Japanese-Americans were interned?

Those internment camps were concentration camps, but at least the families were not separated. They certainly were not death camps like those run by the Nazis. What the Trump Administration has done is to round up and detain, without trial, a class of people who have sought asylum in our country from horrible conditions in their home countries. By any definition these are concentration camps.

[George II]

6. There are a lot of Jewish people in the 14th District, many of whom are....

....either holocaust survivors (now very few, though) or descendants of holocaust survivors. No doubt many were offended when she said "Never again".

[Turin_C3PO]

9. Have you seen the reports coming out of these camps?

If true, there’s not anything you can call them but concentration camps. Obviously, they’re not death camps like the Holocaust but I think calling them concentration camps is called for.

As far as saying “Never Again” maybe she’s out of line but that doesn’t change the seriousness of this current crime against humanity.

[George II]

10. It wasn't so much calling them concentration camps that got many people offended.....

....it was the "Never Again" reference. That's highly offensive, there is absolutely no comparison between what's going on at the border (which is horrible and criminal on it's own) and the German concentration camps.

Growing up first in Brooklyn and later in Queens (1950s/1960s), we had more Jewish immigrants from Europe after the war than were in Tel Aviv. Even today there are more than a million Jews in New York City, mostly descendants of post-war refugees.

[Turin_C3PO]

11. Agreed then, she shouldn't have said "Never Again".

I do understand the German camps are in a category of their own.

Still though, we must stay alert to what’s happening on our southern border.

[Blue_true]

34. The term Never Again was used long before the Holocaust.

It has been used to label an event that a just society should not allow to take place. If we forget that central point, we are headed for another mass tragedy.

[BlueMTexpat]

48. Excellent point! eom

[cactusfractal]

13. Absolutely no comparison...

Yet.

[Saviolo]

12. There are a lot of Jewish people in the responses defending AOC

Some examples:

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The pearl clutching on this issue is making me absurdly angry. The people crying out "How DARE you call them concentration camps!" Because that's just what they are, and guess what, the nazis weren't the first, and weren't the last to use concentration camps. The USA and Canada even used them during WWII, except they were rebranded and remarketed so as not to remind people of the horror related to them.

... apparently it works.

Also, I can't recommend this podcast episode about the history of concentration camps enough:
https://www.behindthebastards.com/podcasts/concentration-camps-are-back-so-lets-talk-about-their-history.htm

[Kind of Blue]

18. +1000

[bullwinkle428]

22. I would be one of them, if I had a Twitter account.

[smirkymonkey]

24. +1000

[Blue_true]

33. George, two people have made good points in this thread.

Never Again has been used well before the Holocaust to state a determination not to again let human tragedy on a massive scale take place. And someone pointed out correctly that Jewish people were first put into and held in the camps and then the murdering started.

Trump has called the people that are being held without due process "animals". How much further do you think the language has to go?

Jewish people in Nazi Germany and occupied countries were called "animals", "cheats", "subhuman". That type of language leads to one end if a stop is not put to it.

I would hope that people in AOC's district that are put out by her use of the term look at how it has been used in history, before the Holocaust.

We see young people today proudly parading around in their MAGA dress, like the Hitler youth did, the only difference is the people today have controls that will be applied by the rest of society, if those controls get eroded, we will have another mass killing of people simply for who they are.

[Lucky Luciano]

53. George hates everything about AOC because she was pro-Bernie.

That’s all you need to know.

[patphil]

8. Rounding people up is step one in the process.

A concentration camp is a place where the enemies of the state are concentrated together.
Step 2 is mass punishment of those people.
Step 3 is bury the dead and repeat.
So, we are only at step one.
Is that supposed to make us believe it's okay to do this?

Patrick Phillips

[gabeana]

16. We have misused the term concentration camp with regards to what happen to Jews during the Holocaust

What they should be called is death camps, that is what they were.
Hitler got some of his ideas on his treatment of Jews, from the American West.
In a modern sense the 1st concentration camps were the reservations and this after century's of slaughter; read American Holocaust by Stannard, another good book that focuses on the demise of the California Indian called American Genocide, forget the authors name
the 1st modern usage of the word is when the Spanish put Cubans in concentration camps during the Cuban Independence movement,
the United States followed this quickly up by rounding up thousands of Filipinos and putting them in camps during the Filipino - American war,
"In response, American military leaders — in coordination with the future president, William Howard Taft, then the U.S. civil administrator of the islands — changed course as well, instituting a pacification campaign that combined several counterinsurgency tactics. Insurgent fighters captured by U.S. forces were dealt with swiftly through deportation, imprisonment or execution, while tens of thousands of civilians were herded into “zones of protection” to protect them and prevent them from joining guerrilla bands. These “reconcentrados,” or concentration camps, were crowded and filled with disease; as the frustrations of guerrilla warfare grew, many U.S. fighters resorted to some of the brutal retaliatory measures reported in the Ledger. One camp commandant referred to them as the “suburbs of hell.” https://www.ozy.com/flashback/the-concentration-camps-of-americas-forgotten-war/80333

this war was horrible it was an occupation, There are photos of Filipinos shot over open pits, ravines just use google see for yourself

even though concentration are inhumane/ horrific, the Jews were eventually sent by the Nazis to death camps, the ultimate goal was to systematically end their culture/religion by ending their existences

and who got Germany on their way to this type of thinking good old USA with our eugenics research at the turn of last century they were sharing creating a super race

[Kind of Blue]

19. +100,000

[Caliman73]

28. Beat me to it. Excellent historical post.

That is the problem with Americans never coming to terms with our own history. You have idiots like Liz Cheney taking offense at something AOC said that is completely within the bounds of American History. Cheney could not care less about the actual Holocaust in my opinion. She just thinks that she can use a buzzword to stifle an accurate criticism of the administration and the lackey Republicans who abet Trump.

Hitler also got a lot of his inspiration from the anti-miscegenation laws and racial codes in the South AND North during the post Civil War period and into the 30's during the rise of Nazism.

[gabeana]

32. yes you are absolutely right

there is a phenomenal book on the subject Hitlers American Model: The United States and the making of Nazi race laws

[Harker]

20. Liz Cheney is another Dick. n/t

[paleotn]

23. Take no prisoners, AOC.

Take no shit from Satan's spawn.

[LiberalLovinLug]

25. Even if it was an exageration.......SO WHAT if it makes the point?

I'm not saying it was, only that we must take a page from the GOP and Trump in their tactic of exaggerating for effect even if that's not in our nature. So many are so afraid of some special interest group taking offence, or tsk tsking us for being too dramatic. Make them come running to social media to act all shocked and defensive for once. They do it to us all the time. And it works because then we usually have to spend precious time defending ourselves, and explaining ourselves instead of laying out platforms etc... Put them in that boat for once...or twice. Every Democrat should be calling all of the GOP traitors every opportunity.

[Ferrets are Cool]

26. I stand with AOC. She is one of the few that is brave enough to stand up to

our wannabe dictator and enablers. YOU GO AOC!!!

[Wounded Bear]

30. In a battle of wits, I think Ms Cheney is unarmed...

[UTUSN]

35. K&R

[UTUSN]

36. K&R

[Takket]

37. she's dropping the hammer again! Liz picked a fight with the wrong woman LOL

KICK HER ASS AOC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Link to tweet

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[sellitman]

43. My take.

I'd like to make an analogy here.

The expression of black lives matter was co-opted by the Republicans when they decided to start the all lives matter or the blue lives matter memes.

It's not that all lives and blue lives don't matter it's just that black lives matter was important to a large segment of America for obvious reasons. Using it for other purposes waters down its meaning. It was changed to take obvious importance from African Americans shift it away.

The same is true with the term concentration camps as opposed to internment camps. Yes concentration camps had been used before the Nazis but it was used by the Nazis for an unspeakable crime and should never be used again.

I love AOC but I think the use of the term concentration camps should be used 4 what did Nazis did to my people.

Internment Camps should of been used IMHO

[spedtr90]

45. Expert on Concentration Camps Says That's Exactly What the U.S. Is Running

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a27813648/concentration-camps-southern-border-migrant-detention-facilities-trump/

"Things can be concentration camps without being Dachau or Auschwitz."

[Celerity]

46. Ryan Saavedra is ultra RW, white nationalist, Rump virtual-fellating worm

Total gas-light attempt, trying to drag in the Holocaust to conflate and confuse. It is BULLSHIT.

Laughable to claim the only concentration camps (I would call Hitlerian ones extermination camps) were the Nazi-run ones. The US itself put thousands of Japanese-Americans into concentration camps during WWII.

[AllaN01Bear]

49. if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, its a duck.

[AllaN01Bear]

50. perhaps you should ask lt sulu what a concentration camp is.

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

[cab67]

51. she very specifically (and wisely) said "concentration camps."

A disproprtionate number of deaths during the Holocaust happened not at concentration camps, but at a handful of death camps, nearly all in present-day Poland. These were different from the larger number of concentration camps throughout the Reich where lots of people died, but where industrial approaches to mass extermination weren't consistently employed.

[zentrum]

52. AOC 2024/2028!

[Submariner]

55. It would have been nice if AOC told Lizzy that, if she is so concerned about

so much slaughter and unwarranted death, how does she feel about her Daddy's Iraq war killing a million people based on her Daddy's WMD LIE.