A word of caution: His keyless car killed him while he slept. New legislation could save others

[mfcorey1]

Pennsylvanian Russell Fish was "paranoid about everything," so much so, he even locked his bedroom door each night, his daughter said.

But no lock would keep his killer out the night of Feb. 15 this year.

With his wife out of town, Fish, 68, returned home from a Subway restaurant, parked his keyless Toyota 4Runner SUV in his attached garage, ate and went to bed with his dog, Angel, by his side.

Neither ever woke up.

"My dad was dead in his bed," said Tabitha Etlinger, Fish's 35-year-old daughter. "His dog was seizing on the floor when the rescuers broke down the door the next morning. They tried to resuscitate the dog, but they could not save him either."

The killer was carbon monoxide poisoning from the SUV that Fish accidentally left running in his garage for nearly 10 hours.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/his-keyless-car-killed-him-while-he-slept-new-legislation-could-save-others/ar-AAD0hC5?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout

[woodsprite]

1. My MIL"s friend died the same way.

Got home from a function at church, did her bedtime routine and went to sleep. Her bedroom was right next to the garage. Her neighbors found her.

I even went to class with coworkers in a carpool, and the one driving her new SUV left it running. Thankfully the prof. went out for a smoke on our break. He told us and she went and shut it down. She was tankful it wasn’t stolen, parked on a street running in Wilmington, DE for 2 hrs before being notified.

[3Hotdogs]

2. Are they forgetting to turn off the engine?

Or does the fob have a "start engine" function that can accidentally be pushed and engage the engine?

Mine "accidentally," opens the trunk.

[radical noodle]

32. Probably forgot to turn it off

At least that's my guess. My keyless car won't start unless I press the button in the car or go into my phone app to start it.

[unblock]

39. some cars can be remote started with a key fob.

not sure that's what happened in this case.

i have it on my car, though i only use it to warm it up sometimes in the winter as i'm walking to the car. i actually forget how to use it at the moment, but it's not as simply as just pushing a button once. i think i have to push, release, and push a second time or something like that.

so accidentally turning it on remotely is possible, though not easy.

[pansypoo53219]

3. my great-aunt's 5th husband died in the garage starting his normal car, but he was older. around 80.

open your garage door.

[MissB]

4. I had to teach my kids that.

The truck they drove during high school was always parked outside in our second driveway. They never drove my car, which parks in the garage.

One day, I dropped my youngest off at my brother’s house to borrow one of his cars (my brother was out of town and we always have access to his house). We entered thru his front door and went into his garage. I went back out of the front door to lock up and waited outside of the garage. After a few minutes, I realized that my son wasn’t pulling out of the closed garage but the vehicle was running. I pounded on the garage door until he opened it, puzzled. He simply didn’t know. He was warming up the car like he always does with our truck, and didn’t know that he should have the garage door open.

[marybourg]

61. Wow, that's scary.

[marybourg]

59. That's only late middle age here on DU.

[Dave Starsky]

5. To hell with keyless cars, for many reasons.

They are relatively easy to hack. There are guys who work in teams of two using a radio relay system. One guy stands next to your car, and the other walks around in the grocery store until he's in range of your keyless fob. Once he's there: Wham! Door opens, car starts. That's just one way. There are many others.

I have heard more than one story about people who have either accidentally left the fob on top of their car or had it fall out of their pocket/purse upon entry. They then drive off, and when they reach their destination, they discover they're screwed.

The fob runs out of battery at the most inconvenient times.

I'm not sure why these things even exist. Is it that inconvenient to have to twist your wrist to start your car? Well, maybe if you have crippling arthritis, but otherwise...

[Submariner]

10. My Hertz rental Chevy had the key fob

I thought it was a novelty, but had to keep reminding myself to press the Start button to shut off the engine. When I turned in the car at the lot and walked away 100 yards, I felt the key fob in my pocket and had to return it to drop off.

The Hertz attendant said may renters have been walking away, and flying away, with the key fobs, which is a pain when they can't move the car from its drop off parking spot/location.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

52. I'm sure customers have been flying away with rental car keys for decades.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

14. Electronic switching is cheaper than mechanical switching.

It’s also more secure. Mechanical switching is easy to bypass with brute force.

[Dave Starsky]

16. It may be cheaper for the car company.

But ever had to have your keyless ignition fixed? Or have your fob replaced? It is ridiculously expensive.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

18. My 04 VW and '10 Mercury both have keyed ignitions.

It was around $400 plus $150 each key to have it replaced in my VW. Your keyed ignitions still have RFID tags in them.

[defacto7]

25. That's what they charge. It's not what the true value is.

It's all a racket.

[sop]

30. When I bought my new Prius the salesguy said the keyless device costs about $300 to replace

Later, when I opened it up to replace the battery and saw how simple the device is, I was amazed they could charge that much for a replacement. It probably cost Toyota about $5 to make.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

87. I'm aware of that.

I actually did it myself for MUCH cheaper because of that. Something like $15 per key and maybe $150 for the new keylock system.

Was just noting to the previous poster that just because it costs a lot to replace keyless system, doesn’t mean it’s cheaper than a keyed system (which costs the same).

[unblock]

41. it has vastly more to do with how much you need the key fob than how much it costs to make one.

if it's just a matter of replacing the battery, that's easy to do yourself instead of paying a dealer $75 (!)

if the fob is actually broken or lost, the manufacturer pretty much has no competition, especially with the more recent fob systems.

[Kablooie]

21. I always keep mine on a watch chain.

It dropped out from my pocket at a movie theater once.
Luckily the theater found it but I learned my lesson.

It's a Prius though so if it's left on it's only electric.
The gas engine will turn on periodically for short periods to recharge the battery but then shuts off.

[defacto7]

24. Keyless sucks. I hate when car companies take control of the vehicle

away from the owner. That includes all the bells whistles and warnings they pound you with.

[LanternWaste]

63. Manual locks are easier to jimmy than hacking a keyless lock.

And can be accessed in less time (my BIL is a locksmith-- 45 second to jimmy a 2004 Jeep Wrangler with a one-blade pocket-knife). Regardless, if one is going to misplace a fob, one will also misplace keys.

I gotta wonder at the righteous posturing and the lines being drawn in the sand over something so benign (at its worst).

[Dave Starsky]

71. An immobilizer key does the job as well or better than keyless.

And they don't kill people.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/05/13/news/keyless-car-deaths-carbon-monoxide-new-york-times/index.html?sr=fbCNN051318keyless-car-deaths-carbon-monoxide-new-york-times0624PMStory

[Kaleva]

72. CO detectors in the home ought to be a requirement

An average of 430 people a year are killed by "unintentional, non–fire-related carbon monoxide poisoning".

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6303a6.htm

From the article you provided a link to:

"Since 2006 at least 28 people have died and 45 others have suffered injuries from the gas after they thought they had turned off their vehicles, the Times found."

https://money.cnn.com/2018/05/13/news/keyless-car-deaths-carbon-monoxide-new-york-times/index.html?sr=fbCNN051318keyless-car-deaths-carbon-monoxide-new-york-times0624PMStory

Properly working and installed CO detectors would have prevented many of these deaths.

[Dave Starsky]

73. My house is all electric.

So I'm supposed to get a CO detector to protect me from my car?

[Kaleva]

75. I don't think it's your intention to argue that you need protection from your car.

But if you do, I assume you have smoke detectors in every recommended location in your home. Get the combo detector(s).

[Dave Starsky]

77. I have smoke detectors in almost every room.

I'm not arguing against CO detectors. If you have a fireplace or ANY gas appliances in your home, they are absolutely de rigueur. Also, if you own a rental property, regardless. I think that's actually a law.

[Kaleva]

78. A CO detector may still be a good idea for you if you have an attached garage.

Even if your house is all electric.

When I became a foster parent, having a CO detector in the home was a requirement. it didn't matter if the heating system, water heater and/or oven was gas or electric.

[Dave Starsky]

83. Because you don't know what appliances people are bringing into the home.

That's also why there is that requirement for rental properties.

Here at Casa de Starsky, it's just my wife and I and our adult daughter (occasionally). Our daughter is pretty science and safety savvy.

[Kaleva]

85. CO detectors are required in all new construction Michigan

"The second law requires a carbon monoxide detector within each single-family dwelling or within each unit of a multi-family dwelling in all new construction. A detector should be located within the vicinity of the bedrooms, which may include a detector capable of detecting CO near all adjacent bedrooms, an area near an attached garage, and an area near fuel-burning appliance.

The law was effective March 23, 2009. People who did not comply should not be penalized until the effective date."

https://carbonmonoxide.com/2016/09/michigan-carbon-monoxide-law.html

[Lucid Dreamer]

90. Key fob dead? Here is how to start the car.

My neighbor came over to my house a couple of months ago when here fob's battery ran down and she couldn't start her Hyundai. I banged around on the internet for a few minutes and found that for several cars

if the fob's battery appears to be run down PUSH THE FOB CASE AGAINST THE START BUTTON AND THE ENGINE WILL CRANK. Don't use your finger.

Then go to a drug store and buy a battery for about $3 and it will last for another 5 years or so.

[customerserviceguy]

104. In my hybrid Sonata

if the car is on, and the fob is removed from the car, an alarm goes off. Also, I cannot lock the car with the fob still inside. Yes, it can be done manually, but the physical key to do that is contained within the fob.

Maybe mine is just designed better than some out there.

[moonscape]

108. I hate to love keyless entry but

I do.

My life consisted of misplacing/losing keys. Yes, I tried many systems but could not break my habit of holding the keys until I needed my hand for something else and down went the keys. Later I had no memory of specifics. The stories I could tell! Enter keyless.

I keep my fob in my purse, always. It never comes out except to change the battery on rare occasions. Never even have to bring out the back-up fob vs one of the 6 spares for my old keyed cars.

Theoretically I hate keyless but practically for me it’s fantastic.

[Dave Starsky]

115. They'll take my keyless fob when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

I didn't realize this was such an emotionally charged issue for some people, but I guess it is!

[Hoyt]

6. Last year I got my first keyless car. I forget quite often to turn it off, but the bells remind me.

It's a small engine and is very quiet.

For 50+ years, I routinely grabbed the keys in the column when getting out. To get the keys out, you have to turn off the engine. But no longer the case with a keyless car. It's a big change. Very sad story.

[mfcorey1]

9. I left mine running for four hours in the yard of my home.

[Hoyt]

11. It is easy to do. Glad it was outside.

[luvtheGWN]

15. I have a keyless car.

In order to start it, you must put your foot on the brake, in Park, and push the button. To stop it, again, foot on the brake, Park and push the button. This is as routine as using a key. If you accidentally leave the fob in the car, you can't lock the car. The fob contains a key for emergencies such as battery wear-out.

However.....(!) I did once come home and was distracted by someone coming up in my driveway asking for directions (which happens frequently as I live in a tourist town). For some reason (after I'd answered her questions) I got out of the car, unpacked my groceries, entered my house and, about 15 minutes later, happened to look out the window and notice the car lights were still on! I should note that my car is a hybrid, so no noise from the engine.

[Nay]

17. That's me, too. Hybrid car, you'd never hear that you left it on by accident. There is an alarm

if you walk away with the fob (loud beeps), but, like you, if you are distracted at a bad moment, you may still leave the car on and asphyxiate yourself.

[marlakay]

95. Same here my Prius so quiet

I can’t tell if its idling sometimes. My key fob is always in purse so if i forget to turn off my car once I walk away will have alarm bells go off.

Sometimes I try to turn car on by pushing button when my purse is still in the house! I am starting to forget i need a key! Lol

[Hoyt]

100. Oh yeah, I'm always leaving the fob in the house. Truthfully, I'd rather have an old style key.

[marlakay]

107. Me too when i found out replacing

It costs $500!

[USALiberal]

7. CO detectors save lives! Nt

[Mariana]

48. I absolutely insist on having them, in the garage and in the house.

I knew a family that lost five members to CO poisoning, because of a faulty heater.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

66. Should have a CO detector on the car so it detects when it's running in an enclosed space.

[tammywammy]

8. I have a keyless car.

After I put it back into park the engine will shut off after a couple minutes.

[spinbaby]

12. Mine alerts me

My Prius gets hysterical if I get out with the engine on.

[csziggy]

80. Plus a Prius will NOT lock if you leave the key fob inside the car

The other day I couldn't find my Prius key so my husband gave me his to use for a run to the store. Since he has a wad of keys on the fob, I threw it into the cup holder. When I got to the store, I pushed the lock button on the door and got out - but the car beeped at me. That's when I realized I'd left the fob inside - and the car had not locked! Saved me a call to the lock smith but it is a concern if I leave my purse with my fob in the car.

Lots of times, my husband will get in, start the car so it can cool down for me, then unload whatever we have bought. When he gets back in, about half the time he pushes the Power button and turns the car off. More funny than annoying, but still...

[Ron Green]

13. The problem is the tailpipe.

Get rid of it, as they’re doing in Europe.

[Tikki]

19. Plus ++++++++

Tikki

[sl8]

29. Wikipedia says that the U.S. has more electric cars per capita than Europe.

Have you seen data that indicate otherwise?

The Wikipedia article says that, as of 2018, the U.S. has 3.4 plug-in electric vehicles (PEV) per 1000 people, as compared to 2.6/1000 in Europe.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country

It's Wikipedia, so I take it with a grain of salt, especially since I didn't follow their provided sources. Too many sources, not enough motivation.

I'd be interested in seeing any contradictory information.

Thanks.

[IronLionZion]

20. There should be ways to disable it

most cars would have an automatic shut off if the key fob is taken out, so people must have forgotten their key fob inside the vehicle. But there should be a feature where if a vehicle is in park for more than a certain amount of hours, it should shut off.

One benefit of having less income is that I've never been able to afford a car with keyless ignition and push button start.

[fescuerescue]

68. My Ford F150 does that

If there is no input via steering wheel/brake/acceleator for 15 minutes, it automatically shuts off. I can adjust it to 30 permanently, or disable it for one on/off cycle.

You would think that could be an issue in stopped traffic, but it's never been (since we typically make very tiny inputs even sitting still with foot on brake).

[ALBliberal]

22. My Mazda CX-5 has a keyless fob. Thankfully it is a

standard transmission so that extra motion of putting the car in first gear to park it is a cue to to turn the engine off.

That being said it’s a pain .... we worry about accidentally locking the key in the car.

A good thing about the fob is that if the battery goes dead on the fob we can “extract” a manual key from it to open the doors and start the engine.

Thanks for the post.... I had no idea of the danger of leaving the car running.

[AtheistCrusader]

27. I would be shocked if a CX-5 would allow you to lock the doors from the outside,

while the fob is inside.

But generally, the idea is never to take the fob out of your pocket at all.

[fescuerescue]

69. Most cars do actually

Since it's very common for each spouse to have a key, it's not unusual to still have one key outside and one inside.

[AtheistCrusader]

82. I have not experienced this. At minimum, the key that unlocked the doors cannot be locked inside.

Our Jeep Renegade would beep and toot the horn and display an error on the dash.
It would also get pissed off when the 'active' fob got out of the vehicle.

[Codeine]

37. My wife has a Mazda with keyless fob.

It won’t lock with the fob inside unless you manually lock it (as she does when she’s driving because she’s paranoid.)

[Lonestarblue]

23. Keep the radio on.

I have a keyless car, and I always keep the radio on as a reminder. If it’s still on after I open the door, the engine is still on too.

[still_one]

26. Should have had a CO detector

[Hassin Bin Sober]

31. Especially with an attached garage.

[still_one]

33. I agree. I have two. A lot of smoke detectors come with both now

[Kaleva]

60. +1

[leftyladyfrommo]

34. I'm safe. No garage and no keyless car. nt

[Act_of_Reparation]

35. Correction: "He accidentally killed himself with a car while he slept."

The car didn't malfunction. The car didn't make him forget to turn it off. The fact the car is keyless is largely irrelevant.

[hueymahl]

42. I disagree - the design of the car and its keyless system is poor

Arguably it is a dangerously defective design. Yes, it is working as designed and there was no malfunction, but the type of accident here was and is foreseeable. I expect there are already lawsuits working their way through the system now, if not for this case, then for others.

[Act_of_Reparation]

44. In what way?

He could have just as easily left the keys in the ignition and produced the same result.

[hueymahl]

46. But that doesn't happen

mostly because we are conditioned after decades of driving that when you have the key with you, the car is off. With a keyless start/stop, you can have the key with you and the engine can still be running. I have done this, more than once, and I don't consider myself feeble-brained. I have NEVER done this with a car that requires a key to be inserted to run.

It is a new design without the physical cues necessary to accommodate and diffuse expected user error. Our tort system is rightly structured to compensate plaintiffs for exactly this kind of poor design.

[Act_of_Reparation]

49. And I've never done it.

Ever.

As long as we're putting stock in anecdotes.

[hueymahl]

50. I guess you just feel like arguing

Google "keyless cars left running"


It is a little more than anecdotal.

[Act_of_Reparation]

51. Or history has taught me to be skeptical of tech panics.

[LanternWaste]

65. What is the per capita ratio of key vs fob deaths?

That data would be objective, and prevent the "It is a little more than anecdotal..." allegation which neither strengthens nor weakens your own premise.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

114. It actually happened at a house on the same street as my inlaws.

I believe two young girls died as a result.

[tinrobot]

36. One more reason we need electric cars.

Fossil fuels kill in more ways than we can imagine.

[Rstrstx]

94. +1. Off-lease used electric cars are reasonably priced

They're a few years old and are great if you only need to drive around town. Got one last year and HATE having to drive the gas truck now. Mine gets around 4 miles/kWh and my electricity rate is .10/kWh so I'm spending about a dollar to drive 40 miles. In a few years new electrics should cost about as much as a regular gas car and the infrastructure for fast charging will be in place. It can't come soon enough.

[Codeine]

38. Not taking the basic precaution

of having a CO detector in the house is what killed him.

[lunasun]

40. I have had keyless cars on business rentals . I really like them . I can't see how someone

could forget to turn off a car but maybe distraction or fatigue.
Maybe get in the habit of always taking the fob out of the car if it sits in a home garage that would trigger an is it off thought?

[Maru Kitteh]

43. The car didn't kill him. He killed him. He left it running. You can do that with keys, too.

I'm certainly not against further safety measures to prevent such an occurrence, but let's be clear and accurate. He caused his death.

[hueymahl]

47. It is not that simple

The manifestations of keyless start systems I have encountered do not have the physical and social cues most of us are used to. I would point to some statistics about how many more times people leave keyless cars running inadvertently, but I don't have the time right now to look it up. Just google "keyless cars left running".

When you have that number of people making the same mistake, it points to a poorly designed system, one that may be actionable as a dangerously defective design in court.

When it comes to something that can kill you, making a relatively common mistake should not be enough. Carmakers and other manufacturers have a duty to their customers. The threshold should be far higher. I expect the courts will ultimately agree.

[Kaleva]

56. Not having CO and smoke detectors in the home can kill you too.

[TruckFump]

55. Since my car key and my house key are on the same fob

I doubt if I would leave the car running and enter my house.

[Locrian]

45. it seems like a subtle thing....

but the issue I see is that people keep them in their pants or whatever and just forget the normal process.

The main thing for years was "you take your keys out so you can take them with you".
In doing so you turn off the car.

Now you don't have to "worry about the keys being with you" if just keep them in your pockets. So it's a tiny bit different.

I hate the damn things... just habit I admit...

But you take them out for unlocking the door - then what? put them where? in your pockets? on the console?
If there was a "special place" (like keys?!) maybe it would be easier to remember>

Dunno - seems like a simple thing but the mental / human behavior aspect is fascinating

[TruckFump]

53. I will NOT have one of these keyless monsters!!!!!!!!!

I am hearing impaired and I want a car that has a key so that I damn well know it's turned off.

There is only one current model that I know of which will allow a switch out of that piece of shit keyless starter for one that uses a key: KIA SOUL.

[Dave Starsky]

74. A deaf couple in my home town died that way.

[TruckFump]

88. OMG! How awful! So sorry!

Those keyless cars scare me to death. I have to touch the car to see if is off because i cannot hear if is running.

Not everyone can fit one design! Not everyone is a 20 year old tri-athlete.

[Dave Starsky]

89. That happened a long time ago.

But it was tragic, and the whole town mourned.

That couple didn't hear that their car was still running, and that was when car motors were a lot louder than they are today.

[NutmegYankee]

93. I check the tachometer - if it's zero, it's off.

Only a problem with rentals for me - my new 2019 is key start because I'm a driving enthusiast, and got a 6 speed manual. I get bored driving automatics.

[TruckFump]

98. Yep, I have had a few toy cars over my life.

However, I no longer am able to drive stick shift -- I have problems with my hands.

[Kaleva]

54. Lack of CO detectors killed him. Every home should have them.

Not a single mention in the article about these simple, inexpensive life saving devices.

Edit: I have two. One in the living room and the other in the master bedroom. I also have smoke detectors on every floor, including the attic and basement, and an extra one in the kitchen.

[Calculating]

57. Keyless cars are the worst innovation ever

Literally innovation just for the sake of innovation. Cars worked just fine with keys for the past 100 years, and I'm not sure where there was ever a problem with the design unless your fingers are too feeble to turn a key.

[MicaelS]

106. There WAS a reason. Car theft.

See post 105.

[SouthernProgressive]

58. Don't touch my remote and keyless start.

This is not a problem that needs to be addressed by the government. In any way at all.

[NutmegYankee]

91. It's prime for some improvements by mandate.

For starters, why not have a warning chime if the drivers door is opened while in park but the ignition is still running? I have a 2019 model with key start because I wanted it that way (Also chose stick shift because it's fun) and it reminds me the key is still in the column. That simple chime alone in keyless cars could have saved dozens of lives.

[SouthernProgressive]

97. Show me a car that doesn't.

"why not have a warning chime if the drivers door is opened while in park but the ignition is still running?"

All 2019 models do, including yours.

"That simple chime alone in keyless cars could have saved dozens of lives."

You don't know that and the government should not be making regulation for "dozens of lives."

[NutmegYankee]

110. Positive my 2019 doesn't.

If for no other reason than it doesn’t have a “Park” to shift into.

[SouthernProgressive]

111. Then it isn't similar to the scenario you described above.

One person will die this year because we didn’t see that loophole.

[NutmegYankee]

112. I'm willing to bet none.

If you go back and re-read, the joke is my car is a manual transmission.

[LiberalFighter]

62. I have a keyless car.

I keep my fob in my pants change pocket. I haven't had a problem remembering to push the start/stop engine button to turn off the car.

I also don't start the car until I am in it. None of this "warming" the car before getting in it. Never have and never will.

[MineralMan]

64. I recently ended up renting a Ford Flex that had

that kind of key fob. It was the first car I've ever driving that was so equipped. I figured it out pretty quickly, but wondered about why I would need such a thing. The fob had a remote start button on it, too. Now, that might be useful here in Minnesota to warm the car up without going outside to start it, like I do with my own car, but...

I carry my keys in my front pocket, and am always grateful to have an old-fashioned car key. When I rent cars, they always have a fob with buttons on it. The panic button is one I dislike a great deal, since I seem to accidentally push it while reaching into my jeans to get the key. I've also accidentally opened the rear hatch a few times or unwittingly locked the car when I didn't intend to.

My wife and I are about to buy another new car. I hope I can get one with a basic trim level that doesn't include such a feature. I doubt that will happen, though. Oh, well.

[fescuerescue]

67. My keyless vehicle has a safety feature for that

It's a Ford F150 with all the luxury odds and ends.

Anyway, when there is no input for 10 minutes (steering wheel, brake. accelerator etc), the engine automatically cuts off.

I've encountered that when trying to sleep at a rest stop with the engine running for heating or cooling.

[Tiggeroshii]

70. Banning combustion engines for cars would also prevent this

[OhZone]

76. Having a messy garage can save you!

Be a hoarder and keep your garage unusable for vehicles!

Naw just kidding.

This is such a dumb tragedy.

Maybe there should be an anti-iding program.

You ain't supposed to idle your car for a long time anyway.

[hunter]

79. Our garage is a laboratory of mad scientists and artists. No room for cars there.

Back in the twentieth century we sometimes parked our cars in the garage but they were dumb no-computer cars. Our house keys were on the same loop as the car keys, so you had to turn off the car and remove the keys or you couldn't get into the house. There was no way to remove the keys if the car's engine was still running.

[Blue_Tires]

81. The keyless car didn't kill him; it was his own carelessness...

[Phentex]

84. It's interesting to me to read how divided people are...

I agree with you although I do think that added safety features are okay. This same person could have left the car in gear and then been run over by it. I see failing to shut the car off as the same thing: an accident, his own carelessness as you say.

[NutmegYankee]

92. Why have any safety features in a car?

Crashing a car is misuse of the product. Use the product as intended and you'll never need a seat belt or air bags. *


*This was an actual argument in 1960. GM lost the case.

[Kaleva]

96. Why have CO detectors?

If we could add certain safety features to a keyless car? The guy in the article most likely would be alive today had he had one or two of these inexpensive, life saving devices properly located within his home.

[Blue_Tires]

101. How far are you willing to go to idiot-proof the world?

I have this debate with my mom every night, since she wants safety nets around entire ballparks now...

[NutmegYankee]

109. I think warning chimes are pretty reasonable.

I have them for keys in the ignition.

[Catherine Vincent]

86. Wow, how horrible.

[MicaelS]

99. Keyed cars will soon be very rare if non-existent.

Arguing against them is like arguing against airbags, seatbelts, or powered windows/door locks.

Just because some people are careless does mean that something should be restricted or banned.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

103. But airbags and seatbelts serve practical safety purposes.

Keyless cars just decide that a button is going to start the car.

I mean, okay....but why? What purpose does that serve over a key?

[MicaelS]

105. Purpose?

It is much harder to steal a keyless car over a keyed car.

Sure, there are stories of people hacking them, but you can steal anything if you try hard enough.

Keyless cars stop the casual thief, since you cannot break into the car and hot wire it.

You can partially thank the insurance companies for keyless cars. GM especially had a very poor plastic steering wheel collar over the keyswitch, it was easy to break it with a common screwdriver, then hot wire the car.
It got so bad that aftermarket companies sold steel collars to put over the plastic collars.

Insurance companies got tired of the payouts for stolen cars. They pushed to get improved collars and keys with chips in them. That led to the cars we have today.

Does the current keyless system be improved? Sure they can. It should be relatively easy to incorporate a circuit that shuts down the car after 10 minutes with no weight on the driver's seat.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

113. I could imagine things going terribly wrong with a defunct sensor in that proposed solution.

I.e. the sensor dies and the car shuts down en transit.

For every innovation in automotive technology, big or small, it always seems to create one or two new problems.

Just ask the radio in my car, on which I currently can't use the preset buttons because the touchscreen died. And now the dealership is telling me I need a whole new audio system even though the actual audio is fine.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

102. I'm not a fan of them. They serve no point.

The keyless cars I've used on rentals just felt strange and unnatural. Maybe just too much of a habit for me to break for something that seems so completely pointless to begin with.

I'm struggling to see what the added benefit to me as the driver to have it on my car. It's not safety. And really, it's not all that more convenient, either; it's not like turning a key required all that much effort.

When I last bought a car, I actually requested the lower-priced model because the higher models had keyless as a standard feature.