What is Plan B if tRump wins reelection in 2020? What if the Rs take back the House?

[stopbush]

Last night on Bill Maher, Elliot Spitzer and a NYT reporter argued to forget impeachment - they opined that the Ds need to beat tRump at the ballot box in 2020.

OK. And what if we don’t? What if he is reelected? What if he is reelected and the Rs retake the House? What’s the plan then?

My guess: there is no Plan B. And we would have missed the opportunity to hold him accountable via impeachment.

[MaryMagdaline]

1. Resist. There's no other plan

[ProudLib72]

2. We will keep our powder dry for another four years!

That's the way to do it!

[pangaia]

13. tell me about it....

[liberaltrucker]

18. It's been stored in the Atacama Desert for decades

Don't think it'll get much drier.

[Volaris]

50. Right ?

Don't get me wrong, I trust Nancy to be better at her job than I am , but this motherfucker is why the Constitution gave her the powder in the first damn place heh.. because really, If THIS isn't the target to point the barrel at and pull the damn trigger , wtf IS?!

[lunatica]

36. What makes you think we'll ever have an election again?

He’s damaged this country both within and for the world and it’s only been 2 and a half years. What do you think we’ll look like if he’s President for another 4 years after being re-elected?

We’ll be a theocratic Dictatorship.

[ProudLib72]

43. We are a theocratic dictatorship, at least in some southern states

I don't want to go into what will really need to be done because I will be banned for saying it.

[lunatica]

62. Yeah, I think many of us do. n/t

[MasterofBiscuits]

56. To quote Butthead

from Beavis and Butthead: "We're there dude."

[rownesheck]

3. Hmm...

Cyanide capsules? Kidding. I just watched Captain America. Agents of Hydra used them when they were captured.

[empedocles]

4. Dems need a Plan A (1) to prevent some Dems from risking losing the House

[Like targeting insufficiently pure Dems in primaries]

[pangaia]

14. and losing more in the senate...

[LakeArenal]

5. No plan B. Vote.

[MineralMan]

6. There is no Plan B. Vote! Help others Vote!

We can do this. We'd better do this.

[burrowowl]

38. Yes we better do this

And hopefully it won’t be too late!

[qazplm135]

7. if we can't beat him via election

we sure as hell ain't beating him via impeachment.

Our side has some skittish weak ass people in it to be honest.

We ALWAYS worry about the worst case scenario. The other side plans on winning every damn time, and we fret and worry about everything.

[dalton99a]

8. For impeachment we're waiting for a planetary alignment

There is a good one coming up in late 2020. If we miss it, we won't see another one until 2040

[StarfishSaver]

9. He's not going to be removed through impeachment. The only way to get him out is to vote him out

We can argue about whether impeachment will help or hinder us get to that outcome. But the bottom line is that he will have to be voted out if we want him out of office.

[pangaia]

15. And why will voting even work?

I know I may appear cynical, but....

The only way he is gotten out is if he is taken out in chains.

And WHO is going to do that?

[StarfishSaver]

19. Voting works when more of us vote than they do

Especially when we do it in numbers too big for them to play with.

Or we can let them convince us we're powerless and DOOMED and stay home - and, in that case, they won't need to cheat because we'll have defeated ourselves.

[TwilightZone]

20. DOOMED, I tell ya.

There's a lot of that going on around here. I have to say that it sometimes looks a little suspect....

[StarfishSaver]

22. It do make one wonder, don't it?

[pangaia]

44. NOTHING art all suspect about me.

I am seriously NOT confident !

So what. I WILL Vote. and do what little I can to help otherwise..

[TwilightZone]

47. We picked up seats at all levels and took back the House in 2018 despite it all.

I see little reason to believe that we can't do similar things in 2020. The trick, as it always is and as it was in 2018, is to get out the vote.

My comment wasn't targeted at you. It's targeted at the people who post multiple versions of "we're doomed, so why bother?" in thread after thread, day after day, on DU.

I don't buy into incessant defeatism. I think it's pointless and discourages people from voting, right when voting is what we're going to need most.

[StarfishSaver]

48. Thank you!

Everything you say is true.

[pangaia]

49. I agree with you about defeatsim. Useless.

I disagree about 2020 vs 2018.
Things are not the same.

[stopbush]

26. Like when Hillary got 3-million more votes than tRump?

[StarfishSaver]

30. Yes, just like that

Because he was able to carry three key states with very slim margins, he took the Electoral College and the White House. Had more people come out to vote for Hillary in those states, they wouldn't have been close enough for him to steal.

Thanks for helping to make my point!

[SMC22307]

37. What are you doing to get "more people" out in 2020,

especially in PA, MI and WI? If they don't vote for the Dem candidate or bother to vote at all, we're hosed. Election fraud, voter suppression, foreign influence... this isn't a done deal.

[MasterofBiscuits]

58. The point is who is sitting in the chair

it isn't Hillary Clinton.

That is the result.

[SWBTATTReg]

32. And we stomped repubs in the Nov. 2018 elections...enough of this fear mongering and rank...

speculation...you're not doing any of us any good...

[pangaia]

45. In my case, please do not accuse me of fear mongering.

I am telling the truth of what I see coming.

You may disagree. I don;t call you a pollyanna, do I?

[SWBTATTReg]

63. I wasn't even responding to you, so I don't know why you thought so important to impart your ...

wit or wisdom...and I tell the truth as I see it, based on the reality of the 2018 elections, the most recent and realistic measurement of what's to come...you must see something else that no one else seems to see, which is fine by the way...

[pangaia]

67. Ah, I thought you were responding to me.. apologies.. for that....

I will still say, however, that I do not see 2020 as the same situation as 2018. Things have gone far beyond 2018.

As for 'imparting my wit and wisdom,' I also "..... tell the truth as I see it,."

[MasterofBiscuits]

57. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote

because people came out in numbers . . .

[JustAnotherGen]

64. They couldn't vote in places it mattered

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2016/11/11/292322/voter-suppression-laws-cost-americans-their-voices-at-the-polls/

In 2014, Wisconsin passed a strict photo ID law requiring voters to show specific, restrictive forms of identification at the polls.4 It is significant that only 27,000 votes currently separate President-elect Donald Trump and Secretary Hillary Clinton when 300,000 registered voters in the state lacked the strict forms of voter ID required.5 Wisconsin’s voter turnout was at its lowest level in two decades.6 Voter turnout in Milwaukee, where 70 percent of the state’s African American population lives, decreased by 13 percent;7 this meant 41,000 fewer votes. Milwaukee Election Commission Executive Director Neil Albrecht reports that the voter ID restrictions depressed turnout, saying “We saw some of the greatest declines in districts we projected would have most trouble with voter ID requirements.”8

Wisconsin’s photo ID law was initially struck down by a lower court,9 but it was upheld by the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals based on the state’s assurances that free IDs would be provided.10 The Wisconsin government failed to live up to its promise, and the court intervened and ordered the state to take steps to ensure that no one would be prevented from voting on account of the voter ID law.11 Despite these efforts, the law prevented several identified people, as well as an untold number of other registered citizens, from casting their ballots.12

And in Michigan

Poll workers in Michigan incorrectly told voters that they needed to show identification to vote. While Michigan does have a voter ID law, it does not require an ID to vote; instead, voters have the option of filling out an affidavit swearing to their identity. There are no hard data on how many Michigan voters were improperly turned away for lacking an ID.15 There were also reports in Pennsylvania of people trying to vote but being told incorrectly that they needed to show identification.16 Alabama also had its first presidential election with a new voter ID law;17 at the same time, the state made it much more difficult for some people to obtain a state-issued ID when it closed 31 of its state driver’s license offices last year.18 Many of those offices were located in low-income neighborhoods of color.19

What's different in 2020?

Governor Evers and Whitmer.

Now let's play a nice clean game of GOTV.

They should do something to send a message to any GOP controlled pricing like my Governor Phil Murphy did . . .He ripped down the Mississippi State flag from Liberty State Park.

It's those little micro-agressions that give clear messages - I'm with you.

[MFM008]

17. Democrats still

Need to do their constitutional duty and leave him impeached by the house with that scarlet letter on his legacy forever.

[PufPuf23]

28. Most would have said Nixon would never be impeached

but public and Congress opinion cascaded because of the investigations and Nixon resigned rather than be impeached and convicted.

But Trump is not Nixon, doubtful if Trump would ever resign, and the 2019 Congress is not the 1973 Congress.

I see the risk that the Democratic party faces in losing ground regained in Red area House and Senate but IMO that is far less than the divide within the Democratic party and how history will view this era should the House not even try or fail to impeach (which will also lose Democratic voters in 2020 down ticket elections).

The correct thing to do is open an impeachment inquiry and be tactical about the timing of the impeachment vote. The Senate probably won't convict but that failure will be something that Trump and the GOP Senators will have to bear going into 2020 elections.

Doing nothing regards impeachment maximizes Trumps chances for re-election and should Trump be re-elected and a dampened Democratic turnout result in losing the House, the USA will not recover for generations, if ever.

[BlueTsunami2018]

10. There is no plan b.

If he “wins” again and they take back the house, forget it. Country is over. There’ll be no coming back.

[mnhtnbb]

25. I feel this way, too.

I truly believe that opening an impeachment inquiry is the one way to put his "high crimes and misdemeanors" front and center for the entire election season. Let people watch the story unfold day after day after day until the sizable majority in the country realizes how dangerous it is for him to be returned to the Oval Office in 2020.

The Dems cannot hope to get the media coverage necessary to tell the story without the process of impeachment.

[Skittles]

11. "wins"

he is a fucking CHEATER

[CrispyQ]

12. There is no Plan B.

If the House impeaches & the Senate doesn't convict the Con will say he was exonerated. If the House doesn't impeach the Con will say, see, even the dems didn't think I did anything wrong. I think the question is, how will impeachment or non-impeachment affect dem voter turnout?

IMO, not impeaching feeds two narratives: the dems are weak, & the two parties are basically the same. Not impeaching will also embolden the GOP, as if they need more emboldening. The dems have not seriously challenged the GOP bad behavior since Nixon & we wonder how they got the idea they can do whatever the fuck they want. Most people don't want to admit that the dems have any blame or complicity in our current situation, but they do. A fraction compared to the lying, cheating, thieving GOP, but some.

Looking at history, I expect the House will punt this off to the People in 2020. What that will do to dem enthusiasm, I don't know. I'm not one who needs to be enthused to vote & I don't understand that, but it is a factor. With all the election shenanigans, we need big turnout & margins to win. We could lose the House. Then it's game over.

[LenaBaby61]

34. I have friends who actually THINK ...

That even if Pelosi/House ridiculously punt on impeachment, "we" can just vote him out in the 2020 GE.

Uh earth to my buddies, the election was STOLEN from Hillary thanks to GOP voter-suppression on 'roids AND with ruskie HELP.

Hillary was ahead in Michigan, Pa. and Wisconsin a few days ahead of the 2016 GE vote I believe. But she 'lost' those 3 states combined miraculously by 80,000 votes

A shift of fewer than 80,000 votes in three states (Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin) — or 0.06% of 137 million cast — would not just have made Hillary Clinton president.

The bottom line: Perhaps even more important for the long run, a young liberal Supreme Court might have ruled on America for a generation.

The WashPost's Philip Bump did the math about Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin back during the transition:

"Trump won those states by 0.2, 0.7 and 0.8 percentage points, respectively — and by 10,704, 46,765 and 22,177 votes. Those three wins gave him 46 electoral votes; if Clinton had done one point better in each state, she'd have won the electoral vote, too."
"But for 79,646 votes cast in those three states, she'd be the next president of the United States."
P.S. "The 540-vote margin in Florida that swung the 2000 election is still the modern record-holder for close races."


https://www.axios.com/local-police-federal-agents-body-cameras-e798279c-aecb-4303-84ef-cf46dbd2f320.html


Since 2016, there has been credible irrigularities found in voting from all across this country as it relates to the 2016 GE that it that it isn't funny. And we saw fatso in plain sight go begging the ruskies for help AGAIN during that interview he did with Stephanopoulos.

And even if we vote in overwhelming numbers, what will stop 'them' from getting rid of enough of those votes in massive numbers as they did in Pa., Mi. and Wis. to give the election back once again to fatso? We now KNOW for sure that the ruskies had a 50 state stregety as it related to 2016. You know that the ruskies will be on top of their cheating/hacking/bot/interference game by this time NEXT year going into 2020. tRumpthuglicans & McTurtle are slso making SURE that there isn't any legislation in place to detur/stop stop ruskies from working their 'magic' once again during one of our GE's. Hillary 'lost' North Carolina by to fatso. We know damn well that she didn't lose NC, and we know damn, damn well that Stacey didn't 'lose' to racist, crooked Kemp, nor did Gullium 'lose' the Florida governorship to DeRACIST, nor did Nelson 'lose' that Florida Senatorship to should-be Felon Scott. ALL of that voter-suppressing did it's magic on Hillary in those and several other states.

Senator Felon & DeRACIST KNOW that two counties there were attacked/hacked/whatever and not a got damn thing is really going to done about it.

Florida Gov. says Russians hacked two counties in 2016
Gov. Ron DeSantis was briefed by the FBI on Friday

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/05/14/fla-gov-says-russians-hacked-two-counties-in-2016/

In other words, we know that Florida will end up in the R column come election time--that's if we have an election. Hell, fatso may start a war and declare that we can't vote during wartime. He holds all of the cards here, especially since it appears that the fat bastard won't be impeached, and that most of the Senate stays genuflecting for their big, fat, bloated, crazy orange King.

[JustAnotherGen]

65. See my post #64

I agree with you on Florida. I do not believe it can be won.

But MI and WI? We've got a shot this time.

However I'm not going to be naive - we still need a massive GOTV effort in those states.

If there are any Democratic Committee members in MI or WI -I hope they can weigh in on this next statement . . .

I believe they have fully seated Committee Members in all precincts there.

That's how we flipped NJ 7th after 38 years of GOP Congressmen being sent to DC.

It's probably how they got those two wins for Governor.

Focus on the fundamentals and support your local precinct members.

If you CAN take days off, save a few a few for election day.

You can get your ass I'm challenging all day on election day next year.

[Funtatlaguy]

16. Marrying someone from another country and move there.

[Hortensis]

21. I recommend screaming and running in circles. Now,

before you've missed the opportunity to do it now.

[demosincebirth]

23. What an terrible thought.

[marlakay]

24. I have thought about it

I plan to work my ass off for any one on our side and you can hate me but if he wins I am turning off all politics. I have high blood pressure and are going to just live my life in peace locally.

[WhiteTara]

27. If that happens

sell the house, make sure the passports are in order,sell everything you own and apply for asylum anywhere in the world they will take you. Or become fodder for the ovens?

[MarcA]

29. The Government should allow for the breakup of the Union. If not,

in the next few years be prepared to live in poverty/slavery, be imprisoned or leave.

[calguy]

31. Plan B Bend Over

We're screwed.

[thesquanderer]

33. Worst case: If Trump is re-elected on Nov 3, impeachment can begin on Nov 4.

Even if R's take the house, they don't get it until the following January.

[LenaBaby61]

35. Even if R's take the house, they don't get it until the following January.

tRumpthuglicans and McTurtle over in the Senate WON'T adhere to ANY rules that will benifit Dems as it relates to starting impeachment of their orange fatso.

[Luciferous]

39. There is no plan B, and no guarantee that we will win in 2020 which is why

they need to start impeachment proceedings.

[ecstatic]

40. I've been thinking about that and it's so depressing. They seem

to be walking us into the same exact situation again. No consequences now, and no consequences after a second theft.

[Baitball Blogger]

41. Well, I for one am going to start a petition to get Rachel Maddow to resume her

bartending tips on her show if Trump wins.

[kentuck]

42. The 3-step program for nuclear attack during the 1950's...

1. Bend over

2. Put head between your legs

3. Kiss ass goodbye

[roamer65]

46. If both happen, secession of CA, NY and New England.

I will help in the fight if it comes to it.

[kimbutgar]

51. No plan b, we are f'ed

All we have left is civil disobedience. Controlling 350 million people will be difficult to control. And do you really think corporate America will sit back and obey?

[mr_lebowski]

52. Plan B: at this point I'm leaning towards Heroin ... like, a ton of it.

[struggle4progress]

53. Here's my secret plan: We work really hard, win, and then throw a big party!

I think this is the best plan I know

[Crunchy Frog]

54. Probably time to think about splitting up the country.

[tirebiter]

55. Accountability is dependent on the senate vote

That’s it fellow Americans. Take the senate and/or the presidency. Plan x y z.

[democratisphere]

59. Then we would have plan "F" for F'ed.

We ain't going to let this happen, RRRRRRRIGHT!

[bluecollar2]

60. Apply for political asylum

In Mexico?

[madaboutharry]

61. I have my own personal plan B.

I seriously will consider emigrating to another country.

[Dave Starsky]

66. There isn't a Plan B, because he's not leaving. Period.

We need to prepare ourselves for that. Trump isn't leaving the White House, unless it's in a slow-moving ambulance with its lights turned off.

There are a million ways for him to keep from leaving, and he will invoke them all. Being President is the one thing keeping his ass out of prison.

And for the first person who tells me, "B-b-but there are term limits in the Constitution!", I will remind you that there's also an Emoluments Clause.

[Turin_C3PO]

68. Secret Service, US Marshalls and military wouldn't let him stay.

Most (not all) are loyal to the Constitution, not the President.

[Dave Starsky]

69. Once upon a time, that may have been true.

But not anymore. The Secret Service will no more remove him from office than the Treasury Department will obey that explicit law demanding that they turn his tax returns over to Congress for oversight. And the Justice Department? That's hilarious. Bill Barr heads that department up. How much "loyalty to the Constitution" has he shown to date?

Here's the most likely scenario, in my mind: Trump very likely will lose the election, probably by a substantial margin. BUT the Justice Department will find evidence of ELECTION FRAUD(!) at some little precinct in southern Georgia, where votes were actually FLIPPED for the Democratic candidate. (By whom? The Chinese? Venezuela? Who can say??) Anyway, the results of the entire election will be called into question, and the current incumbents, including our Dear President, MUST stay in until this fraud can be thoroughly investigated, which will happen... sometime... probably after 2024.

The US media, Congress, Senate, Supreme Court, Secret Service, US Marshalls, and the military will do absolutely Jack shit about it. Keeping Up With The Kardashians won't even be preempted, thank God.

Think that's crazy? Did you ever in your whole life think we would EVER be where we are right now? And it's getting worse and more and more absurd every day.

[Turin_C3PO]

70. While your scenario is scary and not implausible,

I have to believe that there’s still enough of an “establishment “ running this country to prevent that from happening.

I could be wrong though. These past two years have been shocking,