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RB TexLa

(17,003 posts)
Tue Jun 4, 2019, 11:20 PM Jun 2019

Tariffs are always bad, but with Mexico they are worse and this all could be a backdoor to something


else.

There is no defense of tariffs ever, the integration of the global economy and trade has been the goal of the civilized world since WWII.

With Mexico it is far worse, the North American states have an integrated economy. We would be placing tariffs on ourselves. We would also be showing the rest of the world that we do not abide by our trade agreements.

The backdoor is tariffing or taxing ourselves. The tariffs in effect become a sales tax on consumers. trump has already bragged about how much revenue the tariffs on China has brought the treasury. How long before some in trumps ear say let's see if we can fund the government on tariffs instead of income tax collection? Who thinks trump would love to move us to a regressive national sales tax? After all a VAT is just a domestic tariff. Which is what we are talking about right now with tariffs on Mexico, a domestic tariff on ourselves.
23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Tariffs are always bad, but with Mexico they are worse and this all could be a backdoor to something (Original Post) RB TexLa Jun 2019 OP
He's gonna back down and declare victory soon. mobeau69 Jun 2019 #1
Its been a nightmare for those companies trying to control inventory. Trump Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2019 #4
The stable jeenyus of instability. sprinkleeninow Jun 2019 #7
Is Trump Co still building? Guess not - just selling their name? - probably upfront - Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2019 #15
Waiting for the day the name is eaten by irreversible rust. eom sprinkleeninow Jun 2019 #23
Of Course.. Tues nite? By thursday... busterbrown Jun 2019 #17
+100000. trump's tariffs are Economic Racism, as far as I'm concerned. Hoyt Jun 2019 #2
You get it, watoos Jun 2019 #9
Yes, tariffs are always bad. riverine Jun 2019 #3
Bernie is against the China tariffs torius Jun 2019 #16
worse then that, he just negotiated a new NAFTA deal, and from what I still_one Jun 2019 #5
More money for his corporate buddies. That is all. sarabelle Jun 2019 #6
Free trade has turned human labor into a bottomless rescource, which has facilitated income RDANGELO Jun 2019 #8
So you are a protectionist like Trump? riverine Jun 2019 #10
Not me, I am for fair trade done selectively watoos Jun 2019 #12
Trump doesn't know what he is doing. RDANGELO Jun 2019 #13
I agree - Trump wants to fake winning on both fronts ArizonaLib Jun 2019 #19
Funny! Nice Try! ArizonaLib Jun 2019 #20
Cut the accusations - I am a mainstream Democrat riverine Jun 2019 #22
I may be out in left field watoos Jun 2019 #11
The whole idea of "free" trade is to leave the CEO bastards FREE to plunder the earth FiveGoodMen Jun 2019 #21
Say the economy tanks Midnightwalk Jun 2019 #14
People in the red states eat tomatoes too. People are going to notice a 5% hike in food bills. Texin Jun 2019 #18

mobeau69

(11,147 posts)
1. He's gonna back down and declare victory soon.
Tue Jun 4, 2019, 11:24 PM
Jun 2019

He has very little party support on this idiotic idea. The market seems to have come to the same conclusion.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
4. Its been a nightmare for those companies trying to control inventory. Trump
Tue Jun 4, 2019, 11:31 PM
Jun 2019

threatens a tariff and the prices, of say, a piece of pipe that they need for their product shoots up. Then, weeks later, Trump says, never mind for now, and the price goes down. Now, their inventory is over-priced. Then, the next month, he does it again. I would certainly hate to be managing inventory in such instability.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
15. Is Trump Co still building? Guess not - just selling their name? - probably upfront -
Wed Jun 5, 2019, 12:34 AM
Jun 2019

pre-construction, so they don't have to worry about builder supply chains. But, bet builders sure are complaining to Senators. I have heard complaints and that's just from small outfits - nothing like major companies who have HUGE $$ invested, and rely on any country for supplies he threatens then unthreatens then threatens with tariffs.

busterbrown

(8,515 posts)
17. Of Course.. Tues nite? By thursday...
Wed Jun 5, 2019, 01:53 AM
Jun 2019

No more Tariffs ... Trump will blame Cuba for all the problems.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
9. You get it,
Tue Jun 4, 2019, 11:48 PM
Jun 2019

These tariffs aren't about trade they are about immigration. Trump is more concerned with keeping his promise to seal the border. Republicans will never vote against Trump, it would be political suicide.

torius

(1,652 posts)
16. Bernie is against the China tariffs
Wed Jun 5, 2019, 12:36 AM
Jun 2019

He has proposals other than tariffs to deal with the problems. He does not think the China tariffs are the right approach.

Schumer is for the China tariffs. Warren thinks tariffs should be part of an overall trade plan to protect workers, but I am sure if she did them she would do them with forethought and work with Congress, unlike Trump. I don’t know for sure but I don’t think anyone likes the Mexico tariffs, which are not even about trade. Bernie said they would not bring jobs back to the U.S.

still_one

(92,273 posts)
5. worse then that, he just negotiated a new NAFTA deal, and from what I
Tue Jun 4, 2019, 11:35 PM
Jun 2019

understand, these tariffs are a violation of that just negotiated deal.

I don't understand why any country would trust what the U.S.

RDANGELO

(3,433 posts)
8. Free trade has turned human labor into a bottomless rescource, which has facilitated income
Tue Jun 4, 2019, 11:46 PM
Jun 2019

inequality. Trade can be part of an economic strategy to bring about higher wages and a stronger middle class. Once you run a large trade deficit with another country, resolving it is like putting toothpaste back in the tube, but you don't want a trade war; you want negotiations. Trump is trying to use tariffs to punish Mexico which already has a fragile economy. This could send them into a recession and make the situation at the border worse.

RDANGELO

(3,433 posts)
13. Trump doesn't know what he is doing.
Wed Jun 5, 2019, 12:00 AM
Jun 2019

He never talks about trade in terms of higher wages or a stronger middle class. We have an income inequality problem with low wages and a weak middle class; there are different ways to address it. Trump refuses to even acknowledge it.

ArizonaLib

(1,242 posts)
19. I agree - Trump wants to fake winning on both fronts
Wed Jun 5, 2019, 03:45 PM
Jun 2019

NAFTA has helped decimate jobs here in the US because they have been going to Mexico where labor and environmental protections almost don't exist. Our country was built and has thrived on tariffs until Reaganomics got rid them. If you protect labor and environmental resources, tariffs protect that. The Germans still use VAT (value added taxes) which are in essence, tariffs. The way Trump wants to do it is to appease his racist base by appearing to erect tariffs and renegotiate NAFTA - both going after labor and environmental protections.

DON'T ALLOW TRUMPERS TO TROLL BY ASKING US TO PICK BETWEEN FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS AND TARIFFS.
......The Free Trade Agreements are the biggest problem.

ArizonaLib

(1,242 posts)
20. Funny! Nice Try!
Wed Jun 5, 2019, 03:53 PM
Jun 2019

Trump is not a protectionist - he is a racist trying to appease his racist base. Don't try trolling users on this site by using a false dilemma to support your free trade agreement loving labor hating notions. All of the world leaders know Trump's word is worth nothing, and are only putting up with him until he is gone. Since Hamilton's tariffs through the 1970's protective, strategic, smart tariffs were supporting the growth and wealth of this country. Funny how wage trends flattened since we got rid of the tariffs in favor of free trade agreements.

If you are a Trumper, bless your heart, and get ready for more big disappointments at the polls!

 

riverine

(516 posts)
22. Cut the accusations - I am a mainstream Democrat
Wed Jun 5, 2019, 06:45 PM
Jun 2019

Obama supporter. Supported the TPP too.

That doesn't make me a "troll" unless this is JPR.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
11. I may be out in left field
Tue Jun 4, 2019, 11:52 PM
Jun 2019

but I thought these tariffs had to do with Mexico stopping migrants from getting to America? If Mexico can't stop migrants from reaching America the Tariffs go up. These tariffs are just Trump bullying Mexico.

FiveGoodMen

(20,018 posts)
21. The whole idea of "free" trade is to leave the CEO bastards FREE to plunder the earth
Wed Jun 5, 2019, 06:42 PM
Jun 2019

and use and discard all the humans they want to.

Midnightwalk

(3,131 posts)
14. Say the economy tanks
Wed Jun 5, 2019, 12:05 AM
Jun 2019

It has been 10 years without a resession. A downtown during 2020 would hurt republicans and trump.

If they can demonize Mexico, that deflects the anger from the tariffs to Hispanics. It is convenient to have a scapegoat.

Roll out some new punitively measures against immigrants and the racist base would be energized.

Are they laying it out like that? Maybe not precisey, but they may be seeing opportunities that we can’t because they are ugly.

Texin

(2,596 posts)
18. People in the red states eat tomatoes too. People are going to notice a 5% hike in food bills.
Wed Jun 5, 2019, 10:22 AM
Jun 2019

Most of the tomatoes eaten in the United State are grown in Mexico year round. Mexico keeps most agricultural products on the shelves during the winter months. I know that a great deal of agricultural food production is in California, South Texas and Florida as well, but we import (especially in Texas) most of what is consumed at our tables when it comes to fresh produce.

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