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Soph0571

(9,685 posts)
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 02:55 PM Jun 2019

She is not Meghan Markle. She is the Duchess of Sussex.

In all the hullabaloo today about Trump calling Meghan Markle nasty one thing is really getting my goat.

Trump calling her nasty is not a surprise. She is a woman of colour who would rather cut off her own head and eat it than meet him. Who could blame her? Of course he is going to be rude about it.

However, she is the Duchess of Sussex and married to the fifth in line to the throne. That in this whole debate today everyone has failed to use her title, like they know her.... just smacks of racism and misogyny.

Just sayin'
-------------------------

Update 2147 GMT

This....








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She is not Meghan Markle. She is the Duchess of Sussex. (Original Post) Soph0571 Jun 2019 OP
If it is any consolation, Trump's insult against the Duchess MineralMan Jun 2019 #1
I have to say as a Brit I am not that interested in the Royal Family Soph0571 Jun 2019 #5
I imagine that it will result in a chillier reception for Trump. MineralMan Jun 2019 #10
Stiff upper lip and all that! n/t Soph0571 Jun 2019 #12
Harry could demand to defend her honor TexasProgresive Jun 2019 #8
What kinda handicap do you get for having bone spurs? 3Hotdogs Jun 2019 #28
one hand tied behind his back scarytomcat Jun 2019 #35
All the male royals and the Queen have served in the military pandr32 Jun 2019 #58
I say edhopper Jun 2019 #78
I am not up on my royalty so I din't know what she is beside her name which I have to be reminded of wasupaloopa Jun 2019 #2
She is titled HRH Princess Henry, The Duchess of Sussex & styled as HRH The Duchess of Sussex. CottonBear Jun 2019 #36
are charles, william, harry, kate, etc typically referred to by their formal titles in the media? Takket Jun 2019 #3
Titles are normally used. Soph0571 Jun 2019 #7
If I run into them on the Metro, they will be. NT mahatmakanejeeves Jun 2019 #33
The Duchess of Cambridge is often referred to as Kate Middleton in the press but not as often. yellowdogintexas Jun 2019 #57
She's Meghan Markle here. mahatmakanejeeves Jun 2019 #4
So is the Queen, Liz? Soph0571 Jun 2019 #9
Trump greets Her Majesty: - "Hi, Lizzie!" MineralMan Jun 2019 #13
LOL. Sad thing is you could actually seem he do that! Soph0571 Jun 2019 #20
It would not surprise me if he did just that, actually. MineralMan Jun 2019 #25
Well, he DID barge his way ahead of her the last time. So rude to ANY woman, let alone... maddiemom Jun 2019 #79
I'm sure Cambridge Analytica is working up an alliterative nickname for her JustABozoOnThisBus Jun 2019 #55
... trusty elf Jun 2019 #69
hehe Soph0571 Jun 2019 #71
LOL! MineralMan Jun 2019 #93
That long tie TexasBushwhacker Jun 2019 #99
Got your queen right here: mahatmakanejeeves Jun 2019 #17
Now I get it. I hadn't known, until I looked at your profile, that you live mahatmakanejeeves Jun 2019 #37
Yeah, one of the resident Brits Soph0571 Jun 2019 #38
I don't mind Harry and William. The young ones are okay. mahatmakanejeeves Jun 2019 #41
! Marcuse Jun 2019 #62
the queen was born into it and didn't have a life outside of it JI7 Jun 2019 #60
Just a question, why are Kate and Meghan always referred to by smirkymonkey Jun 2019 #89
Cause snobs always want to put commoners in their place n/t Soph0571 Jun 2019 #91
No, she's not. She is Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor OldEurope Jun 2019 #26
Heh, well played Soph0571 Jun 2019 #27
They dropped the Kaiser part, did they? mahatmakanejeeves Jun 2019 #30
And? It is not a secret that the Royal Family has origins in Germany from Queen Victoria's time. Soph0571 Jun 2019 #34
It reads like someone only just discovered they were German BannonsLiver Jun 2019 #67
Try Queeen Victoria's GGGrandfather George the 1st. whistler162 Jun 2019 #104
during ww1 whistler162 Jun 2019 #103
She is Meghan Windsor here. Not Markle. LakeArenal Jun 2019 #53
Grace Kelly was referred here, in the USA as the Princess of Monaco Perseus Jun 2019 #85
It is Racism and Misogyny, Wellstone ruled Jun 2019 #6
That! Soph0571 Jun 2019 #11
Agreed n/t Lulu KC Jun 2019 #14
He never refers to Secretary Clinton or Speaker Pelosi by their correct titles either. CottonBear Jun 2019 #42
Where are the diplomatic and protocol experts? Sacked, no doubt, The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2019 #51
K&R smirkymonkey Jun 2019 #15
Hell, we need trade deals after Brexit so the government wants the orange buffoon to feel special Soph0571 Jun 2019 #22
Oh, you'll get a trade deal all right. smirkymonkey Jun 2019 #90
Me, too. Ohiogal Jun 2019 #23
I would stand in a very long line to see that. smirkymonkey Jun 2019 #92
As an American, I would never refer to someone using such a title. tritsofme Jun 2019 #16
OK. MineralMan Jun 2019 #18
Thanks? tritsofme Jun 2019 #19
The American President is required to use the correct titles of foreign dignitaries CottonBear Jun 2019 #44
OP is aimed at "everyone failing to use her title" not specifically Trump. tritsofme Jun 2019 #50
I understand the OP. However, I was responding to your post. CottonBear Jun 2019 #54
Impeach JonLP24 Jun 2019 #94
"Everyone" meaning the press. yellowdogintexas Jun 2019 #63
Where do you find that requirement dumbcat Jun 2019 #66
It is required by the standards of international diplomatic protocol. N/T CottonBear Jun 2019 #68
But you miss the point jberryhill Jun 2019 #73
That is true, however, her new name/title is her married name and... CottonBear Jun 2019 #80
Hmmmm...Princess Grace of Monaco and Queen Noor of Jordan come to mind. Totally Tunsie Jun 2019 #86
Thomas Jefferson Quotes About Monarchy mahatmakanejeeves Jun 2019 #21
Maybe, but I would take the Queen over Trump any day of the week... Soph0571 Jun 2019 #24
+100 demigoddess Jun 2019 #87
That from a man who wrote all men are created equal .. CatMor Jun 2019 #29
Yes! And of course he didn't give the equality right to women, something we're still fierywoman Jun 2019 #39
No, it was "All white men are created equal". MicaelS Jun 2019 #61
Jefferson said a lot of things BannonsLiver Jun 2019 #64
Juicy quotes exist of his about slaves as well... LanternWaste Jun 2019 #102
Trump is a racist and a misogynist. His behavior and words are abhorrent. CottonBear Jun 2019 #31
The Duchess of York was almost always called Sarah Ferguson or even Fergie renate Jun 2019 #32
It is much the same as Kate has had - Google Trends muriel_volestrangler Jun 2019 #40
In my experience with the American media, titles are rarely used when discussing members Crunchy Frog Jun 2019 #43
"In line to the throne" has a very different meaning here in the Colonies. liberaltrucker Jun 2019 #45
LOL!!!! Coventina Jun 2019 #82
6th in line. Master Archie is 7th. :) Solly Mack Jun 2019 #46
My bad... Soph0571 Jun 2019 #47
A lot of people try to forget that. Solly Mack Jun 2019 #48
Hehe Soph0571 Jun 2019 #49
Every shred of decency or decorum is long gone. onecaliberal Jun 2019 #52
meghan dawn5651 Jun 2019 #56
she IS Meghan Markle. the duchess thing is just something JI7 Jun 2019 #59
There is much to object to w/regards to Chump but this is silly. We are Americans and so is she. Princetonian Jun 2019 #65
Minor legal nit jberryhill Jun 2019 #70
Obviously even she and her husband have not totally bought into titles. Kind of Blue Jun 2019 #72
She's duchess over there. We had a revolution to free ourselves from that shit. Coventina Jun 2019 #74
Over there is over here for me... Soph0571 Jun 2019 #75
Well, I'm a strong independent woman, and I find it irritating that Ms. Markle has somehow been Coventina Jun 2019 #81
I doubt it bothers her as much as it bothers you. nt USALiberal Jun 2019 #101
Jamie Lee Curtis is still normally Jamie Lee Curtis, not Baroness Haden-Guest muriel_volestrangler Jun 2019 #76
Love I think it different IMO Soph0571 Jun 2019 #77
As I said, above, "Kate Middleton" is still used in the UK more than "Duchess of Cambridge" muriel_volestrangler Jun 2019 #84
Good points. And I don't think it's racism or sexism either. Kind of Blue Jun 2019 #96
We still hear William's wife referred to as Kate & sometimes even Late Middleton. tblue37 Jun 2019 #83
Right now Trump's team is putting a tarp over the Duchess so IQ45 won't have to see her. LastLiberal in PalmSprings Jun 2019 #88
Unless we are addressing her personally, we can use her name rather than her title. We Americans Nitram Jun 2019 #95
trump is lower than Cha Jun 2019 #97
Americans still call Kate Middleton - no bias on Megan Markle by not using her title. patricia92243 Jun 2019 #98
She is both!!!!! Calling her by either name is fine. Lighten up! nt USALiberal Jun 2019 #100
While I fully agree with your point, if you say Blue_Tires Jun 2019 #105
I can detest Trump's petty insults and still not care about her title... brooklynite Jun 2019 #106

MineralMan

(146,325 posts)
1. If it is any consolation, Trump's insult against the Duchess
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 02:57 PM
Jun 2019

is now a viral news item in the UK. Everyone there will know of it before he arrives.

Harry should publicly demand an apology from Trump, on camera. See how that sits with Donwald.

Soph0571

(9,685 posts)
5. I have to say as a Brit I am not that interested in the Royal Family
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:04 PM
Jun 2019

But I know this.... we protect our own. Trump can fuck right off. The Royal Family will have the back of the Duchess of Sussex and while they will remain icily polite any point that needs to be made will be...

MineralMan

(146,325 posts)
10. I imagine that it will result in a chillier reception for Trump.
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:07 PM
Jun 2019

I'd love it to be even more than that, but needs must, I suppose.

pandr32

(11,605 posts)
58. All the male royals and the Queen have served in the military
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 04:16 PM
Jun 2019

They view it as a duty fake bone spurs would never exempt them from. They privately must loathe the orange oaf.

 

wasupaloopa

(4,516 posts)
2. I am not up on my royalty so I din't know what she is beside her name which I have to be reminded of
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 02:58 PM
Jun 2019

It's just something I don't pay much attention to. But if she pissed off trump I'd call her one of us.

Takket

(21,620 posts)
3. are charles, william, harry, kate, etc typically referred to by their formal titles in the media?
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:02 PM
Jun 2019

rather than their names?

Soph0571

(9,685 posts)
7. Titles are normally used.
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:06 PM
Jun 2019

Although the press tend not to use the more formal Prince of Wales for Prince Charles.

yellowdogintexas

(22,270 posts)
57. The Duchess of Cambridge is often referred to as Kate Middleton in the press but not as often.
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 04:16 PM
Jun 2019

It seems to me that it would be just as easy to use Katherine, Duchess of Cambridge; Meghan, Duchess of Sussex. Lazy writing and lowering of standards.

The Duchess of Cornwall is always referred to as such - I can't remember when any writeup about her referred to her as Camilla Parker-Bowles.

This has actually been bugging me all year; these young women are Duchesses by order of HRM Elizabeth II and should be referred to in that manner - not by their prior to marriage names.

Prince Edward's wife is generally referred to as Sophie, Countess of Wessex (I think that is her title) isn't she?

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,593 posts)
4. She's Meghan Markle here.
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:03 PM
Jun 2019
Title of Nobility Clause

The Title of Nobility Clause is a provision in Article I, Section 9, Clause 8 of the United States Constitution, that prohibits the federal government from granting titles of nobility, and restricts members of the government from receiving gifts, emoluments, offices or titles from foreign states and monarchies without the consent of the United States Congress. The Clause is subject to interpretation. Also known as the Emoluments Clause, it was designed to shield the federal officeholders of the United States against so-called "corrupting foreign influences." The clause is reinforced by the corresponding prohibition on state titles of nobility in Article I, Section 10, and more generally by the Republican Guarantee Clause in Article IV, Section 4.
....

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

Take it away, Thomas Jefferson (and this is the only time you will see me quote The Daily Worker):

Thomas Jefferson: On the breeding of kings
April 28, 2011 11:41 AM CDT BY THOMAS JEFFERSON

As the world prepares for the royal wedding between Prince William and soon-to-be Princess Kate, it’s important to take a look back at our own American traditions, and what our founding fathers had to say about royalty. We are, after all, a nation born out of a revoultion against a monarchy. With that in mind, we present to you Thomas Jefferson’s letter, “On the Breeding of Kings.” We’re guessing that Jefferson wouldn’t have been enthused by the pomp and pageantry.

To Governor John Langdon
Monticello, March 5, 1810

When I observed, that the King of England was a cipher, I did not mean to confine the observation to the mere individual now on that throne. The practice of Kings marrying only in the families of Kings has been that of Europe for some centuries. Now, take any race of animals, confine them in idleness and inaction, whether in a sty, a stable, or a state-room, pamper them with high diet, gratify all their sexual appetites, immerse them in sensualities, nourish their passions, let everything bend before them, and banish whatever might lead them to think, and in a few generations they become all body and no mind ; and this, too, by a law of nature, by that very law by which we are in the constant practice of changing the characters and propensities of the animals we raise for our own purposes. Such is the regimen in raising Kings, and in this way they have gone on for centuries. While in Europe, I often amused myself with contemplating the characters of the then reigning sovereigns of Europe. Louis the XVI was a fool, of my own knowledge, and in despite of the answers made for him at his trial. The King of Spain was a fool, and of Naples the same. They passed their lives in hunting, and despatched two couriers a week, one thousand miles, to let each other know what game they had killed the preceding days. The King of Sardinia was a fool. All these were Bourbons. The Queen of Portugal, a Braganza, was an idiot by nature. And so was the King of Denmark. Their sons, as regents, exercised the powers of government. The King of Prussia, successor to the great Frederick, was a mere hog in body as well as in mind. Gustavus of Sweden, and Joseph of Austria, were really crazy, and George of England, you know, was in a strait-waistcoat. There remained, then, none but old Catharine, who had been too lately picked up to have lost her common sense. In this state Bonaparte found Europe; and it was this state of its rulers which lost it with scarce a struggle. These animals had become without mind and powerless; and so will every hereditary monarch be after a few generations. Alexander, the grandson of Catharine, is as yet an exception. He is able to hold his own. But he is only of the third generation. His race is not yet worn out. And so endeth the book of Kings, from all of whom the Lord deliver us, and have you, my friend, and all such good men and true, in His holy keeping.

MineralMan

(146,325 posts)
25. It would not surprise me if he did just that, actually.
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:20 PM
Jun 2019

His tendency to blurt things out is strong. His disdain for women, too, is a powerful force in him.

He is also very clumsy and inept in social settings, and will struggle with the proper, polite form of address.

So, if you combine all of those tendencies in the man, blurting out "Hi, Lizzie," is not such a stretch for the imagination.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,363 posts)
55. I'm sure Cambridge Analytica is working up an alliterative nickname for her
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 04:14 PM
Jun 2019

Lazy Lizzie, Loser Lizzie, Lame Lizzie, testing each with opinion polls.

He'll have something to say about not riding in a golden coach.

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,593 posts)
37. Now I get it. I hadn't known, until I looked at your profile, that you live
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:37 PM
Jun 2019

in the UK. I was wondering why anybody in the US would get so worked up over that crowd.

Most people here don't take it that seriously.

I'll lighten up. Sorry.

Soph0571

(9,685 posts)
38. Yeah, one of the resident Brits
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:44 PM
Jun 2019

I not a royalist, but I hate that there is a double standard. It pisses me off

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,593 posts)
41. I don't mind Harry and William. The young ones are okay.
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:53 PM
Jun 2019

Nixon tried to introduce royal uniforms for the White House police back in the 1970s. That didn't go over too well. It's just the sort of thing that Trump would think was a swell idea.

I predict Trump will revive Nixon's palace guard uniforms.

Richard Nixon’s Palace Guard

by Megan McArdle

August 19, 2013 7:00 AM

It’s a Monday in the middle of August, and we could all use a break. So let’s go back in time to January 1970, when President Richard Nixon was preparing for a visit from Prime Minister Harold Wilson. Nixon, who thought his White House uniform guards looked “slovenly,” had them outfitted in new uniforms, based on the honor guards he had seen, and been impressed by, in Europe.

My husband, upon seeing this, immediately said “Oh my God, those look like marching band uniforms!” You can kind of picture them sticking a flute in those holsters, can’t you? If an enemy charged the White House, they could quick-draw and start fifing away. “Give ‘em the old Yankee Doodle Dandy, boys!”

The public reaction to the new uniforms was not good. Here’s how Richard Reeves describes it in President Nixon, Alone in the White House:

A couple of days after the State of the Union address, Democrats and the press finally got a chance to mock Nixon. The occasion was a state visit by Prime Minister Harold Wilson of Great Britain — and the official unveiling of new White House police uniforms, inspired by the honor guards Nixon had seen in Europe. The cops were wearing double-breasted white tunics with starred epaulets, gold piping, draped braid, and high black plastic hats decorated with a large White House crest. “They look like old-time movie ushers,” said the Buffalo News. “The Student Prince” said the Chicago Daily News. In the Chicago Tribune, a Nixon friend, columnist Walter Trohan, was more serious, saying the uniforms belonged onstage, calling them “frank borrowing from decadent European monarchies, which is abhorrent to this country’s democratic tradition.”

The uniforms didn’t last long. The black hats were the first to go, and by the mid-1970s, the whole uniform had been abandoned. In 1980, the barely-used uniforms were repurposed as…yes, you guessed it, the uniforms for the Southern Utah State marching band. Apparently, the college beat out rock singer Alice Cooper, who had wanted five of the tunics for his band. The marching band paid the General Services Administration $90 for shipping, plus a charge for cleaning and pressing.

There’s no larger point to this — except, I guess, that we democracy-loving Americans don’t want any movie ushers or fife-and-drum corpsmen on the steps of our White House. I just figured we could all use an afternoon laugh.

Nixon’s Palace Guard

January 1970: The White House guard (secret service uniformed division) publicly revealed their new uniforms which featured a white, double-breasted tunic with gold shoulder trim and a stiff shako hat with peaked front. They replaced the black uniforms the guards had previously worn on ceremonial occasions.

President Nixon had ordered that a new uniform be designed after he had seen what palace guards wore in other countries and had decided that the White House needed something as fancy.

JI7

(89,262 posts)
60. the queen was born into it and didn't have a life outside of it
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 04:24 PM
Jun 2019

markle had a life and career and they aren't much into the royalty thing but show respect by accepting some of the things expected of them.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
89. Just a question, why are Kate and Meghan always referred to by
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 06:24 PM
Jun 2019

their maiden names in the press and not their titles or married names? This is something that has always irritated me.

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,593 posts)
30. They dropped the Kaiser part, did they?
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:23 PM
Jun 2019
Mountbatten family

The Mountbatten family is a European dynasty originating as a cadet branch of the German princely Battenberg family. The name was adopted during World War I by family members residing in the United Kingdom due to rising anti-German sentiment amongst the British public. The name is a direct Anglicisation of the German Battenberg (literally Batten Mountain), a small town in Hesse. The title of count of Battenberg, later prince of Battenberg, was granted to a morganatic branch of the House of Hesse-Darmstadt, itself a cadet branch of the House of Hesse, in the mid 19th century.

Soph0571

(9,685 posts)
34. And? It is not a secret that the Royal Family has origins in Germany from Queen Victoria's time.
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:27 PM
Jun 2019

Unsure what your point is?

BannonsLiver

(16,439 posts)
67. It reads like someone only just discovered they were German
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 04:33 PM
Jun 2019

Yet think they’ve got some kind of new discovery that they need to show all of us. Kind of pitiful, really. But also made me chuckle.

 

whistler162

(11,155 posts)
104. Try Queeen Victoria's GGGrandfather George the 1st.
Mon Jun 3, 2019, 01:33 PM
Jun 2019

Also Prince Albert, has anyone let him out of the can?

 

Perseus

(4,341 posts)
85. Grace Kelly was referred here, in the USA as the Princess of Monaco
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 05:15 PM
Jun 2019

I don't know the press goes to the constitution, or anywhere else to find out how to call them, it is protocol to call them as their title demands.

 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
6. It is Racism and Misogyny,
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:05 PM
Jun 2019

pure and simple. Ponzi Don thinks Ivanka is the Princess. You can not fix the Stupid.

CottonBear

(21,596 posts)
42. He never refers to Secretary Clinton or Speaker Pelosi by their correct titles either.
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:54 PM
Jun 2019

The incompetent White House staff can’t even get the Queen’s title correct. They failed to refer to her as Her Majesty In recent official communications.


Where are the diplomatic and protocol experts?

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,829 posts)
51. Where are the diplomatic and protocol experts? Sacked, no doubt,
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 04:07 PM
Jun 2019

along with everybody else who knew how to do anything.

Soph0571

(9,685 posts)
22. Hell, we need trade deals after Brexit so the government wants the orange buffoon to feel special
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:18 PM
Jun 2019

That we have to do this is irritating beyond belief - apart from anything else, whatever trade deal we get will not be worth the paper it is written on - we will be at 25% tariffs within 6 months based on Trumps record...

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
90. Oh, you'll get a trade deal all right.
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 06:26 PM
Jun 2019

It just won't be one that will favor the UK. He will be all smiles and charm and then screw you over at the last minute. A snake will always be a snake.

Ohiogal

(32,047 posts)
23. Me, too.
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:18 PM
Jun 2019

That crime family is getting way too much hospitality from the Royal Family that they don’t deserve. I would love to see Harry punch that orange ignoramus and knock him on his fat ass.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
92. I would stand in a very long line to see that.
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 06:27 PM
Jun 2019

I hope at the very least they humiliate him to death.

CottonBear

(21,596 posts)
44. The American President is required to use the correct titles of foreign dignitaries
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:58 PM
Jun 2019

AND of American citizens.

CottonBear

(21,596 posts)
54. I understand the OP. However, I was responding to your post.
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 04:13 PM
Jun 2019

Last edited Sun Jun 2, 2019, 06:39 AM - Edit history (1)

You can call her what you wish, but the POTUS cannot.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
73. But you miss the point
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 04:42 PM
Jun 2019

You are correct in relation to foreign dignitaries. If she remains a US citizen, then it is improper to recognize a title of nobility bestowed upon a US citizen.

CottonBear

(21,596 posts)
80. That is true, however, her new name/title is her married name and...
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 05:03 PM
Jun 2019

would be polite to refer to her by her new married name as a courtesy, especially since Dolt45 and his grifter clan will be meeting both her husband and her in-laws.

She is is the process of applying for U.K. citizenship. I wonder if she’ll give up her US citizenship when she gets her U.K. citizenship? The US taxes on expatiates are very heavy and apply even if she never lives in the US again.

Totally Tunsie

(10,885 posts)
86. Hmmmm...Princess Grace of Monaco and Queen Noor of Jordan come to mind.
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 05:22 PM
Jun 2019

Princess Grace:
She married the ruling head of the country, but retained her U.S. citizenship by carrying dual citizenship.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Kelly

Kelly retired from acting at the age of 26 to marry Rainier, and began her duties as Princess of Monaco. They had three children: Caroline, Albert, and Stéphanie. Kelly retained her link to America by her dual U.S. and Monégasque citizenship.[2]


Queen Noor:
American, married to King Hussain of Jordan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Noor_of_Jordan

Only tRump could or would be so boorish as to defile either woman, which means it might easily happen.

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,593 posts)
21. Thomas Jefferson Quotes About Monarchy
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:18 PM
Jun 2019
Thomas Jefferson Quotes About Monarchy

I was much an enemy to monarchies before I came to Europe. I am ten thousand times more so, since I have seen what they are. There is scarcely an evil known in these countries, which may not be traced to their king, as its source, nor a good, which is not derived from the small fibres of republicanism existing among them.

demigoddess

(6,644 posts)
87. +100
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 05:32 PM
Jun 2019

at least the British Royalty have rules and abide by them. and, as was pointed out, they all served their country, even the Queen and Prince Phillip and William and Harry and Charles and Andrew.

fierywoman

(7,690 posts)
39. Yes! And of course he didn't give the equality right to women, something we're still
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:45 PM
Jun 2019

suffering under.

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
61. No, it was "All white men are created equal".
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 04:24 PM
Jun 2019

That is how it really was. No women or anyone else not a white man.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
102. Juicy quotes exist of his about slaves as well...
Mon Jun 3, 2019, 11:42 AM
Jun 2019

But they probably don't drive your narrative as well.

CottonBear

(21,596 posts)
31. Trump is a racist and a misogynist. His behavior and words are abhorrent.
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:24 PM
Jun 2019

The Duchess of Sussex is now a member of the British Royal Family. However, she is also still a taxpaying American citizen at this time.

Trump has not only insulted her as a woman of color who is now a member of the British Royal Family, but he has also insulted and degraded an American citizen.

Her full title is Her Royal Highness Princess Henry, The Duchess of Sussex.

She is styled as HRH, The Duchess of Sussex.

She takes her title through marriage. She is not a Princess in her own right. Neither was her mother in law. Harry’s mum was HRH The Princess of Wales. After her divorce she was given the courtesy title Diana, Princess of Wales. She was never titled or styled as Princess Diana.

It is a 3-5 year process to become a British citizen. The Duchess of Sussex has completed the proper paperwork for visas and citizenship applications, but she has to go through the same process as everyone else.

renate

(13,776 posts)
32. The Duchess of York was almost always called Sarah Ferguson or even Fergie
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:24 PM
Jun 2019

And The Duchess of Cambridge is still often referred to as Kate Middleton.

I agree with you that she is no longer Meghan Markle but I don’t think any disrespect is intended.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,358 posts)
40. It is much the same as Kate has had - Google Trends
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:47 PM
Jun 2019

for UK searches for their usual pre-marriage names and their titles:

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2009-06-01%202019-06-01&geo=GB&q=kate%20middleton,meghan%20markle,duchess%20of%20cambridge,duchess%20of%20sussex

After their marriages, their old names are far more commonly searched than their titles.

Crunchy Frog

(26,629 posts)
43. In my experience with the American media, titles are rarely used when discussing members
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:57 PM
Jun 2019

of the royal family.

I remember when Prince Andrew married Sarah Ferguson, she was generally referred to as "Fergie".

Just now, checking on the Wikipedia article about Diana Princess of Wales, she's referred to simply as "Diana" pretty much throughout the article, which is how I remember it from back when she was alive.

I believe that I've also often seen William and Harry referred to as "William and Harry".

My point is that I don't think there is any disprespect intended by it, and I don't think that she's been singled out in this respect. Maybe Americans are, overall, simply more informal?

Solly Mack

(90,780 posts)
46. 6th in line. Master Archie is 7th. :)
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 03:59 PM
Jun 2019

Charles, William, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry, Archie.

She is Meghan, Duchess of Sussex.

No skin off my nose to address her as such.



dawn5651

(604 posts)
56. meghan
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 04:14 PM
Jun 2019

is meghan mountbatten-windsor the duchess of sussex as she wasn't a princess when she married she will probably be known as princess harry although not likely.

JI7

(89,262 posts)
59. she IS Meghan Markle. the duchess thing is just something
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 04:21 PM
Jun 2019

she took on for marrying into that family.

she is still Meghan markle who had a public life and career as MM before getting married .

and him saying horrible things about non royals doesn't make it any less worse.

 

Princetonian

(1,501 posts)
65. There is much to object to w/regards to Chump but this is silly. We are Americans and so is she.
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 04:31 PM
Jun 2019

Kate Middleton was referred to as such for many years.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
70. Minor legal nit
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 04:40 PM
Jun 2019

If she is still a US citizen, then the US government does not recognize her as the Duchess of Sussex.

Kind of Blue

(8,709 posts)
72. Obviously even she and her husband have not totally bought into titles.
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 04:42 PM
Jun 2019

From what I've read, if the couple wanted to give baby Archie a title they could have gone for Earl of Dumbarton but Rejected it, saying they wanted to keep things less complicated for the baby.

I hope she continues to be herself, very Meghan Markle, as we know her with absolutely no disrespect on this side of the pond.

Coventina

(27,169 posts)
74. She's duchess over there. We had a revolution to free ourselves from that shit.
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 04:44 PM
Jun 2019

I'm not supporting Trump's asshole-ery.

But I'm also not supporting the peerish asshole-ery either.

Soph0571

(9,685 posts)
75. Over there is over here for me...
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 04:54 PM
Jun 2019

I get to be irritated when a strong independent woman, who has made history, is shown disrespect like this. She is a breath of fresh air, and for the first time women from minority communities see a black woman at the very heart of the establishment. That matters, and for the British press to not recognise her title matters. If we want to see a permanent cultural shift, it really matters.

Coventina

(27,169 posts)
81. Well, I'm a strong independent woman, and I find it irritating that Ms. Markle has somehow been
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 05:04 PM
Jun 2019

elevated by her marriage to a man.

No, she elevated HIM, because he was known to be quite the asshole in his younger years, but seems to have recovered somewhat.

But, I'd respect both of them a whole lot more if they renounced all that peerage foolishness and he took her name.

Soph0571

(9,685 posts)
77. Love I think it different IMO
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 04:59 PM
Jun 2019

The Duchess of Sussex is a member of the Royal Family. I am not a royalist, but the coverage today really bugs me. I see racism and sexism in bucket loads...

muriel_volestrangler

(101,358 posts)
84. As I said, above, "Kate Middleton" is still used in the UK more than "Duchess of Cambridge"
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 05:10 PM
Jun 2019

so I don't think it's racism. And men who marry into the royal family also retain their own names, on the whole - Princess Anne's 2 husbands both continued with their own names and no title, for instance. So I don't think it's sexism either. You might say it's seeing her as a continuing individual, rather than using a title that comes from her marriage, and could in the future refer to someone else (for instance, as with "Duchess of Gloucester" - a title previously held by the current one's mother-in-law).

Kind of Blue

(8,709 posts)
96. Good points. And I don't think it's racism or sexism either.
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 07:05 PM
Jun 2019

Just seems like whitesplaining a view that doesn't exist in deciding what the actual use of her title means to black Brits. To me it's a small thing given what black Brits face in a country where hate crime has increased in the past year as well as increased racial bias in policing.

From what I understand there are 3 other women of African descent in the royal family, one who's still alive, Emma Thynn, who we never hear of. I think because her title has done nothing to help race relations. But good optics for the royal family though.

I just don't remember any cries of sexism when Princess Diana, loving referred to as just Di, or Fergie came on the scene.

tblue37

(65,483 posts)
83. We still hear William's wife referred to as Kate & sometimes even Late Middleton.
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 05:07 PM
Jun 2019

Moderns are quite casual about such things.

88. Right now Trump's team is putting a tarp over the Duchess so IQ45 won't have to see her.
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 05:34 PM
Jun 2019


The Duchess of Sussex represents everything he detests: she's a smart, beautiful woman of color, who is accomplished, articulate, opinionated, and was not "helped by the Russians" to achieve her current position. He not only hates her, he's scared to death of her.

Plus, she is viewed as an equal to Prince Harry, not a bought-and-paid-for trophy wife.

Fat Donnie is running around proclaiming, "The British people love me." The staff is going to have to block out the windows on Marine One (or the British A.F. equivalent) so he won't see the 200,000 protesters who plan on bring London to a stop during his visit. I hope the helicopter make it a point to fly by the "Crying Baby Trump" blimp on its way to the Palace.

I wonder whether the Queen will wear the same brooch that President Obama paid for out of pocket as a personal gift to Her Majesty, as she did the last time Fat Donnie visited.

Nitram

(22,861 posts)
95. Unless we are addressing her personally, we can use her name rather than her title. We Americans
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 06:33 PM
Jun 2019

have historically had little use for titles. The banning of titles by the Constitution was a radical departure from custom at the time, and reflected a democratic distaste for titles. The president is referred to as "Mr. or Ms. President." In diplomatic situations, of course, titles must be used.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
105. While I fully agree with your point, if you say
Mon Jun 3, 2019, 02:12 PM
Jun 2019

"Duchess of Sussex" on the news or among the general public, 99.998% of them will instantly respond with "WHO?!?"

But when you use the name or say "that black woman who married into the royal family", everybody knows instantly...

brooklynite

(94,716 posts)
106. I can detest Trump's petty insults and still not care about her title...
Mon Jun 3, 2019, 02:17 PM
Jun 2019

...even if I was British, it's a meaningless title, since she and her children are not in the line of succession. Plenty of people here refer to "Jeremy Corbyn" and not "the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition".

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