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Demovictory9

(32,457 posts)
Sun May 26, 2019, 05:08 AM May 2019

Could you give up flying? Meet the no-plane pioneers

Could you give up flying? Meet the no-plane pioneers

Growing numbers of travellers are abandoning air travel to help save the planet – even if it means spending 14 days on a train



It has taken Roger Tyers four days to reach Moscow by train from Kiev. His destination is Beijing: a trip that will take 14 days, with a couple of overnight stops along the way. Tyers, an environmental sociologist at the University of Southampton, is on his way to China to research attitudes to the environment, the climate emergency and personal responsibility. “Given that, I thought it would be somewhat hypocritical of me to fly,” he says over Skype from his hostel room.

It has been months in the planning – he had to convince his bosses to give him a month off to travel to and from China. Has it been a pain? “It definitely has. It’s a matter of getting your train schedule in line with your visa requirements. I didn’t realise I needed a visa to travel through Mongolia, even though I’m not stopping there. There have been moments when I’ve been close to giving up and either cancelling the whole trip or just booking a flight.” But he is glad he has stuck with it, he says. “I have to prove it is possible.”

The no-fly movement is a small but growing community of people who are drastically reducing the number of flights they take, or giving up air travel altogether. Many campaigners say they feel flying is about to receive the same attention as shunning plastic or eating less meat because of its 2% contribution to global carbon emissions, predicted to grow to as much as 16% by 2050. In Sweden, where the movement has taken off, a new term has emerged: flygskam, meaning “flight shame”. Siân Berry, the co-leader of the Green party, has called on people to take no more than one flight a year and suggested a tax should be imposed on further journeys. Berry hasn’t flown since 2005.

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2019/may/22/could-you-give-up-flying-meet-the-no-plane-pioneers

36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Could you give up flying? Meet the no-plane pioneers (Original Post) Demovictory9 May 2019 OP
I am taking the train to NY in September mnhtnbb May 2019 #1
I recently took a train from Charlotte to Seattle. And back. cwydro May 2019 #8
I am a cautious flyer as well... Phentex May 2019 #11
I loved flying but Sherman A1 May 2019 #2
I never liked flying - guess who stays awake during a red eye listening to engines. Vinca May 2019 #3
I will join as soon as we have train service across the US and passenger sinkingfeeling May 2019 #4
I haven't flown in at least 15 years, but we don't travel much. Luciferous May 2019 #5
I'd happily never fly again Thyla May 2019 #6
As an American living in Europe with family and job center in the USA DFW May 2019 #7
I expect to never again fly HAB911 May 2019 #9
This doesn't add up. KentuckyWoman May 2019 #10
Those of us who are retired or self employed mnhtnbb May 2019 #12
Very few KentuckyWoman May 2019 #13
The 1% aren't taking the train. mnhtnbb May 2019 #14
Not what I meant KentuckyWoman May 2019 #15
You might want to ride the train before you start in on me. mnhtnbb May 2019 #18
I am not your enemy. KentuckyWoman May 2019 #21
Your response to me was snotty. mnhtnbb May 2019 #23
For me, the journey would be the destination. Aristus May 2019 #26
in the past 30 years I have flown 5 times so Akacia May 2019 #16
Easily. I hate to fly. smirkymonkey May 2019 #17
I'd love to give up flying, when teleporting is available. SharonClark May 2019 #19
No. My job requires I fly frequently. Nt hack89 May 2019 #20
Commercial aircraft get between 90-100MPG per average passenger. TheBlackAdder May 2019 #22
I just had two turbulent flights-from-Hell this last week to Colorado and back. Aristus May 2019 #24
Ah, but have you seen.... DFW May 2019 #35
Unless it's going to take more than two days to drive there MurrayDelph May 2019 #25
I haven't flown anywhere in Ilsa May 2019 #27
I was on a plane once. House of Roberts May 2019 #28
Impractical ideas like this will not save the planet Downtown Hound May 2019 #29
It must be nice to have all that free time. MineralMan May 2019 #30
No. I'm sure it must be nice to have all that time and money and a boss who'll pay your way Hekate May 2019 #31
I last flew in 1983 trackfan May 2019 #32
Give up flying? Sure, but it would take some time to get anywere mitch96 May 2019 #33
I cannot take two weeks to get somewhere, that's for sure Skittles May 2019 #34
Flying isn't what it used to be. Liberal In Texas May 2019 #36

mnhtnbb

(31,395 posts)
1. I am taking the train to NY in September
Sun May 26, 2019, 05:43 AM
May 2019

instead of flying.

The direct flight from Raleigh is only just over an hour in the air. I am taking a cruise that leaves from NY up to New England and Canada. Hoping to catch fall foliage.

No way I would chance flying in the same day. Not going to risk cancelled or delayed flight and miss the sailing. So I'm going a day ahead. Since I am, thought I'd take the train. I don't care if it takes all day and it will since we don't have fast trains. I was able to book a roomette so I will be very comfortable. I can nap, look out the window, walk around, and not worry whether a flight will be on time.

Going home the same way since the cruise returns to NY. Not going to spoil a lovely vacation dealing with airports and flying.

I hate flying. Used to enjoy it 20-30 years ago. Not any more. If I can get there on the train, I will take the train. Unfortunately, I can't take the train to the Caribbean!

Phentex

(16,334 posts)
11. I am a cautious flyer as well...
Sun May 26, 2019, 09:52 AM
May 2019

I never book the last flight of the day unless I'm prepared to miss my flight. I don't usually book a flight the same day as something important I might be attending like a graduation or a wedding. I don't mind flying at all but I try to prepare for the worst. I am the same when travelling by car.

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
2. I loved flying but
Sun May 26, 2019, 05:50 AM
May 2019

haven't been in the air since about 2005 on an airliner. I don't count the 30 minutes in a Ford TriMotor in 2009 as really flying. Environmental issues aside I have no real desire to deal with security theater.

Vinca

(50,279 posts)
3. I never liked flying - guess who stays awake during a red eye listening to engines.
Sun May 26, 2019, 06:11 AM
May 2019

At this point there are only a couple of places I would get on a plane for because I hate ships even more. It's got nothing to do with saving the planet and everything to do with phobia.

sinkingfeeling

(51,460 posts)
4. I will join as soon as we have train service across the US and passenger
Sun May 26, 2019, 07:30 AM
May 2019

ships leaving from multiple ports on a daily basis

Thyla

(791 posts)
6. I'd happily never fly again
Sun May 26, 2019, 07:55 AM
May 2019

Not for some type of moralistic reason I just hate it.

Having said that there isn't really any other viable alternative to get from Spain to Australia so at some point I'm going to have to man up.

DFW

(54,410 posts)
7. As an American living in Europe with family and job center in the USA
Sun May 26, 2019, 08:10 AM
May 2019

That would pretty much make me unemployed tomorrow.

The radical wing of The Greens here in Germany once proposed a law forbidding people from flying more than once every five years. That went over like a lead balloon even in their own party.

HAB911

(8,904 posts)
9. I expect to never again fly
Sun May 26, 2019, 09:26 AM
May 2019

flew for years for work, very pleasantly. Now it's a cattle call with guys in sleeveless tank tops, cargo shorts and flip-flops cramming huge suitcases in the overhead bins, not to mention security hassles. the environmental concerns are the cherry on top. If I'm lucky, never again.

KentuckyWoman

(6,688 posts)
10. This doesn't add up.
Sun May 26, 2019, 09:33 AM
May 2019

A month off.
14 days there.
14 days back.
2 to 3 days there?

No. For making a statement. Ok. For vacation? No

mnhtnbb

(31,395 posts)
12. Those of us who are retired or self employed
Sun May 26, 2019, 10:00 AM
May 2019

and able to work anywhere due to the internet don't have to worry about long train trips. Obviously, not everyone can do this.

KentuckyWoman

(6,688 posts)
15. Not what I meant
Sun May 26, 2019, 10:10 AM
May 2019

The rich don't have to ask for a month off. Do I really have to explain to you how little time off 99% of working people get? I hope not.

mnhtnbb

(31,395 posts)
18. You might want to ride the train before you start in on me.
Sun May 26, 2019, 10:58 AM
May 2019

I've been riding trains in the US all my life. Commuter trains in to NY from Jersey suburbs. Trains across country in the 50's and 60's because my father didn't like flying and wasn't going to drive from NJ to CA to visit relatives. Trains up and down the coast of CA. Trains from NC to DC and to NY and back. Next week I'll take the train to Charleston, SC rather than drive.

Most of the people I now see riding trains are folks who probably can't afford to fly or people with time (retirees or students) or people who may not have cars or prefer the train to a bus.

It doesn't take a month to go places on the east coast. It does take longer on the train than driving or flying, thanks to the fact we don't have fast trains in the US. We can thank the oil/gas industry and auto lobbies for that.

KentuckyWoman

(6,688 posts)
21. I am not your enemy.
Sun May 26, 2019, 12:22 PM
May 2019

You seem to think I am, but that's incorrect. I don't disagree with anything in the post above, but that post has very little to do with the OP. A short hop regionally is not the same as an international intercontinental vacation that takes 4 weeks on a train and a mere 3 days at the destination for a working person who is tied to a specific location to work and is lucky to take one week a year let alone 4.

Asking people to do that for their trip of a lifetime is ridiculous. Asking people to consider regional vacations without air travel is fine and asking people to support bus and train for commutes is great. However, those are a different conversation than the OP.

mnhtnbb

(31,395 posts)
23. Your response to me was snotty.
Sun May 26, 2019, 12:53 PM
May 2019

Did you read the whole article? It's primarily devoted to Europeans and it does, in fact, suggest that people limit flying. Use trains--which are excellent in most European countries--unlike the US. Take more regional vacations accessible by train. The article is directed towards the middle class.

It's a much more difficult sell in the US because we don't have fast trains. We should, but we don't, thanks to the oil/gas industry and auto lobbies. (We also don't have single payer health care like many European countries do.)

I'm done.

Akacia

(583 posts)
16. in the past 30 years I have flown 5 times so
Sun May 26, 2019, 10:12 AM
May 2019

easy for me to do. I hate flying and the security issues make it even less attractive.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
17. Easily. I hate to fly.
Sun May 26, 2019, 10:16 AM
May 2019

I will suck it up to get to Europe, but then train around once I am there. I love train travel and mostly just travel the northeastern seaboard anyway. I took a train from Boston to Baltimore for Thanksgiving and it was so much less stressful than flying. I was able to work on my PC for the entire trip and it was a very pleasant ride.

TheBlackAdder

(28,209 posts)
22. Commercial aircraft get between 90-100MPG per average passenger.
Sun May 26, 2019, 12:33 PM
May 2019

.

Also, these planes have scheduled routes, regardless of being at capacity and carry cargo as well.

Not really saving much. If you're a family of four, that's equivalent to being in a car getting 25MPG.

===

The CO2 is multitudes higher though.

.

Aristus

(66,393 posts)
24. I just had two turbulent flights-from-Hell this last week to Colorado and back.
Sun May 26, 2019, 01:14 PM
May 2019

I'll take train travel any day.

Current time constraints don't permit it, but my dream is to cross the country by train. Take a nice roomy sleeper car with a shower and private toilet. Read, surf the net, watch our huge, beautiful country go by out the window, enjoy meals in the dining car, sleep to the soothing click-clack of the rails, etc. I've watched just about every YouTube video in existence concerning cross-country Amtrak sleeper-car travel. I want this so bad, it aches.

MurrayDelph

(5,299 posts)
25. Unless it's going to take more than two days to drive there
Sun May 26, 2019, 01:16 PM
May 2019

I won't fly. And even then, unless time-bound, I'd rather drive and see the sights.

20+ years ago, I lived in L.A., and frequently taught in San Jose. Friday's class usually ended noonish, so I could be home five hours later. But since you couldn't count on the students not wanting to come back after lunch, if I flew, I'd have to book a 6pm flight that (after luggage and transport) would get me home aground nine.

Now I live on the northern Oregon coast, and several times a year drive to L.A., which is 15-17 hours of driving, not counting stops. And I'd rather do that than fly (and not just because the nearest airport is two hours away).

Two years ago, we drove from the northernmost corner of Oregon to Los Angeles, then through Zion, Bryce, Yellowstone, Badlands, Devils Tower, and Mount Rushmore, through Chicago, St Louis, Chattanooga, and Atlanta, down to Orlando and Miami. Then we came back by way of Orlando again, New Orleans, Memphis, Colorado Springs, the Colorado National Monument, and back.

That's a lot of scenery you can't see by air, and trains go where and when they are set to.

Allegedly.

The last time I traveled by train, was a trip we "won" on a radio show. It was L.A. to San Diego and back to see the Harbor Lights Christmas parade. We had to arrive at Union Station early in the morning, had "free time" in downtown San Diego until the show (that anyone could attend without tickets), and then had to wait another two hours before the train left. On the ride home, the train was siderailed for two hours, less than three miles away from Union Station. By the time I got home, the trip took 22 hours, for want would have been a three-hour drive each way.

House of Roberts

(5,177 posts)
28. I was on a plane once.
Sun May 26, 2019, 01:30 PM
May 2019

It was a kindergarten field trip, and we didn't leave the ground.

I'd have to be the mechanic for the plane to even consider getting on one now.

Downtown Hound

(12,618 posts)
29. Impractical ideas like this will not save the planet
Sun May 26, 2019, 02:44 PM
May 2019

Nothing more than feel good, bragging rights bullshit by Green Party type idiots so they can exult their moral superiority.

Renewable energy, electric or hydrogen cars, an end to deforestation, and carbon sequestration of the atmosphere are the things that will save us now. The article openly says that even if EVERYBODY gave up flying, it would only effect 2% of global carbon emissions. That wouldn't do shit in the long run to stop global warming.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
30. It must be nice to have all that free time.
Sun May 26, 2019, 03:36 PM
May 2019

Most of us are not able to take so long to get places.

(Written while sitting at Gate 2 at the Santa Barbara airport after spending four days helping my 94 year old parents cope with yet another end of life issue. I flew here the day after my father called in a panicked state. )

Driving here from Minneapolis would have taken three days. I got here the next day, and was able to resolve the issue.

Feh!

Hekate

(90,714 posts)
31. No. I'm sure it must be nice to have all that time and money and a boss who'll pay your way
Sun May 26, 2019, 03:59 PM
May 2019

...while you self-righteously choose the most expensive and time consuming mode of travel possible over multi-continental distances. However the vast majority of us don't have that option.

mitch96

(13,912 posts)
33. Give up flying? Sure, but it would take some time to get anywere
Sun May 26, 2019, 06:10 PM
May 2019

Drive, Busses and trains..
Took a train from NYC to Ft Lauderdale... Amtrak...... painful.. 24 hrs..
m

Liberal In Texas

(13,558 posts)
36. Flying isn't what it used to be.
Sun May 26, 2019, 06:46 PM
May 2019

It used to be almost laid back and comfy. They would serve meals and bring pillows and magazines to you. And people would dress as nicely as if they were going to the theater.

Now the seats are smaller and scrunched close the one in front (I don't know how large people cope) there is usually no food, people don't trust baggage handlers and insist on bringing their suitcases into the cabin to cram into overhead bins and it's always another wait while they unload the bins. Planes are almost always totally full these days. Gone are the days when you could find an empty row and stretch out. If you don't sit on the aisle, using the rest room is usually better done after landing in the terminal.

The lines through TSA are long and annoying. I have TSA Pre✓ which is as far as I'm concerned the only way to fly. You don't have to remove shoes, belts, jackets or have to be screened in the full body scanner ("put your hands up like this and hold still." ) You put any carry-on on the x-ray belt and walk through a metal detector. That's it (unless you get one of the random pull asides.)

I just got back from a trip that driving would have cost 2 days plus each way. And put a bunch of miles on my new vehicle. When you add the cost of staying overnight and the gas and extra meals the price of a plane ticket is very competitive. Train? I'd love it. But there are no trains going from here to where I went.

Not as nice as it used to be? No, but it got me there and back pretty quickly and safely.



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