General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsImpeachment will not remove Trump from office.
The Constitution provides (Section 3, Clause 6) The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.
An impeachment trial is purely a matter for the Senate, and is not subject (at all) to judicial supervision or review: Nixon v United States
If the courts reviewed the actions of the Senate in order to determine whether that body tried an impeached official, it is difficult to see how the Senate would be functioning . . . independently and without assistance or interference... Judicial involvement in impeachment proceedings, even if only for purposes of judicial review, is counterintuitive be- cause it would eviscerate the important constitutional check placed on the Judiciary by the Framers.
McConnell is no more obliged to hold an impeachment trial than conduct confirmation hearings. If Trump was impeached Mitch would say, 'let the people decide' and defer it (at least) to the GE.
EDIT: I favor impeachment. A refusal of the GOP Senate to hold a trial would provide an fine basis for the 2020 campaign, particularly the Senate campaign. What my OP is saying is that 'barring' misadventure, we will be facing Tump.
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)only building. Make GOP defend trump...
crazytown
(7,277 posts)I am (strongly) in favor of impeachment. The point of the OP is that, barring misadventure, we are going to facing Trump in 2020.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,619 posts)Are you suggesting Dems not use every weapon in their arsenal to the fullest of their majority power, to defend the Constitution and the Rule of Law?
Because that would be cowardly defeatism.
The Constitution cant wait until 2020.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Talk about the impeachment hearings affecting the outcome in the Senate is nonsense. There will not be a Senate trial.
MFM008
(19,814 posts)Where is the remedy in that?
Where is congressional duty?
crazytown
(7,277 posts)and the House, and the Senate, the 'American Experiment' is over. Those around the world who have wanted to see the Republic fail since the 18th Century will finally get their wish.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,619 posts)That is not an excuse not to fight with everything weve got, instead of waiting for November 2020.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)The OP says I favor impeachment
wryter2000
(46,051 posts)does nothing to protect the Constitution. Impeachment that results in Trump losing the election does at least something. Removal from office is "consequences" for his crimes. If he remains in office, he continues to erode the rule of law.
Response to wryter2000 (Reply #4)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,619 posts)Doing nothing (simply waiting for the 2020 election is doing nothing), does not protect the Constitution and is the same as surrendering.
wryter2000
(46,051 posts)Do what we're doing now. Multiple investigations that can lead to impeachment when it will have the most impact. During the election, not now. We don't even have evidence of all his crimes yet.
Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #2)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
lark
(23,102 posts)Even though he has the majority in the Senaste, Mitch McConnell knows that Donald Trump has committed high crimes and misdemeanors, it's detailed out in the Mueller report, but he's so afraid of the president of his party getting convicted for crimes he actually did commit, he refused to hold the trial. Who wouldn't want to clear their name - someone who was totally guilty and the people that colluded with him and Russia. McConnell will look so weak and by extension, so will drumpf, and that's the one thing he fears the most.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)so they can say "case closed" - and be right.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)McConnell will want to provide them cover.
sop
(10,189 posts)Then the whole thing, including any unfinished investigations into Trump's finances and the Russia money trail, would be flushed down the memory hole, forgotten by the 2020 election season. Trump would go out on the campaign trail braying he's been declared "innocent," Barr's "investigation into the investigation" (Trump's pogrom of retribution against his "treasonous" political opponents) would be in full swing, and corporate media would cover nothing else.
Impeach Trump now, and it's "all behind me" by election time.
standingtall
(2,785 posts)The three men took on leading roles at the Constitutional Convention almost as soon as it convened on May 25, 1787. In the first week, Randolph, the 33-year-old Virginia governor, introduced the Virginia Plan, written by Madison, which became the starting point for the new national government. Mason, one of Virginias richest planters and a major framer of his home states new constitution, was the first delegate to argue that the government needed a check on the executives power. Some mode of displacing an unfit magistrate was necessary, he argued on June 2, without making the Executive the mere creature of the Legislature. After a short debate, the convention agreed to the language proposed in the Virginia Plan: the executive would be removable on impeachment and conviction of malpractice or neglect of duty a broad standard that the delegates would later rewrite.
Mason, Madison, and Randolph all spoke up to defend impeachment on July 20, after Charles Pinckney of South Carolina and Gouverneur Morris of Pennsylvania moved to strike it. [If the president] should be re-elected, that will be sufficient proof of his innocence, Morris argued. [Impeachment] will render the Executive dependent on those who are to impeach.
Shall any man be above justice? Mason asked. Shall that man be above it who can commit the most extensive injustice? A presidential candidate might bribe the electors to gain the presidency, Mason suggested. Shall the man who has practiced corruption, and by that means procured his appointment in the first instance, be suffered to escape punishment by repeating his guilt?
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/inside-founding-fathers-debate-over-what-constituted-impeachable-offense-180965083/
Looks like the argument that impeachment should not be pursued because the Senate wont convict or that reelection would exonerate an impeached President was shot down at the constitutional convention in Philadelphia.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)it's never worked...and the threat of it only worked once.
Republicans win as often as they do because at the end of the day, they sacrifice "principles" for power.
We get so stuck on principles that we often forego power.
I don't think impeachment is going to ultimately be anything other than a net negative politically.
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)shockey80
(4,379 posts)Impeach that fucking asshole. If the Democrats do not impeach Trump they will be breaking their oath of office.
Once again, all I see and hear is fear.
uponit7771
(90,344 posts)tymorial
(3,433 posts)Congress has a responsibility. Each member takes and accepts the same oath:
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.
It doesnt matter whether or not the Republicans will abandoned their duty. Their failure to act would be a broken promise to the American people. And while I am certain many of their supporters do not care or worse want them to violate their oath, we cannot and should not consider political fallout when it comes to defending our country and constitution. I would hope our representatives and senators accept this as well.
The president has concluded with foreign governments to subvert elections and to destroy our democratic process. He and members of his cabinet have acted to obstruct justice, to libel and slander those who are duty bound to investigate and to actively ignore constitutional mandates. The White House must be held to account for these actions. It is the responsibility of all members of Congress to ensure that corrective action be taken. This is true even if the House stands alone in impeaching the President and members of his cabinet.
This is not politics. This is duty.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)All I am saying is there will not be a Senate trial.