Trump Is Considering Deputizing the Military as a Civilian Police Force. That Is Terrifying.

[babylonsister]

Trump Is Considering Deputizing the Military as a Civilian Police Force. That Is Terrifying.
By Elizabeth Goitein
May 21, 20197:01 PM


The Donald Trump presidency, marked by cruelty, corruption, and disdain for the rule of law, has been disastrous for our democracy. If there is one silver lining, it is this: Trump’s abuses have exposed weaknesses in our laws and institutions that were previously hidden and which we can now begin to try to fix. We learned about one such weakness in February, when Trump relied on the National Emergencies Act to commandeer funding Congress had specifically denied for the construction of a border wall. The latest such legal loophole is another emergency power that could enable the president to turn the military into his own immigration police force.

According to a report in the Daily Caller last week, the Trump administration is considering invoking the Insurrection Act to give federal troops the power to detain and remove undocumented immigrants in the United States, acting essentially as Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents. The White House, when asked about the option last week, refused to rule it out.

If Trump follows through on this plan, it would be a staggering abuse of authority, on par with the president’s declaration of a “national emergency” to build the border wall. In both cases, the president seeks to harness an authority clearly intended for the most dire and unusual of circumstances to deal with a long-standing issue that does not come close to posing an urgent or overwhelming threat. In both cases, the president’s goal is not to avert a catastrophe, but to score political points with his base and consolidate his own power.

The Insurrection Act is an exception to the general rule, enshrined in the Posse Comitatus Act, that presidents may not use the military as a domestic police force. Posse comitatus, in the words of one former Defense Department official, reflects “one of the clearest political traditions in Anglo-American history: that using military power to enforce the civilian law is harmful to both civilian and military interests.” Deploying soldiers as police officers not only violates democratic sensibilities; it increases the risk that interactions with civilians could go disastrously wrong, as armed forces are not trained in conducting law enforcement activities. On the flip side, every soldier engaged in law enforcement is being pulled away from military priorities.

more...

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/05/trump-insurrection-act-military-troops-police-ice.html?fbclid=IwAR3J5YNMVKi3bL0YwEGuN9uy2IqhdRAZm0fEC3tEZlCvHXy56KyB_yev4Ag

[SHRED]

1. Such hypocrisy

Considering he is an employer.who hires them.

[lunatica]

39. Well it's one way of using them, then getting out of paying them

Win win!

[dalton99a]

2. Kick

[Dennis Donovan]

3. His own Black and Brownshirts...

Which sounds pithy, but it should be terrifying to every American who believes in the rule of law.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

4. First they will come after the undocumented and the Dreamers....Who will be next?

[img][/img]

SCARY when you think of it.

[Eliot Rosewater]

5. took longer than I thought it would, GOP are your enemy, they want you and your family dead

[colsohlibgal]

6. Well The Game Is Certainly On

It is the forces of evil vs the forces of democracy.

Investigating the Investigators, purely an autocratic tactic....all while misunderstanding what Treason really is.

We need more republicans to put country above party.

[brush]

7. That would be violation of the Posse Comitatus Act. He won't get away wit it.

[Lochloosa]

8. Not after the changes in 2008. Might want to read this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurrection_Act

[dixiegrrrrl]

18. So glad you had that info to share..

I was never convinced all this authoritarian anti-immigrant/border walls stuff was only for immigrant issues.

we actually have a Supreme court which could allow trump to get away with subverting democracy.
and of course by saying trump, we are talking about those behind the scenes, such as Stephen Miller, and the RW religious fanatics,
which includes Opus Dei; Barr is not the only member of that group working in Washington.

Don't know why they would have to wait for the election, it could easily be canceled.

[trev]

37. I didn't realize Barr is Opus Dei

but it doesn't surprise me in the least.

Trump is filling the government with religious fanatics. I'm an atheist, but even I don't believe that all Christians are in league with this. I've been trying to get reasonable Christians to actively oppose the politically insane ones, but unfortunately it is an uphill battle. So many of them are blind to reality....

[dixiegrrrrl]

59. This tells a story....

The Opus Dei Catholic Information Center’s “members and leaders continue to have an outsize impact on policy and politics. It is the conservative spiritual and intellectual center … and its influence is felt in all of Washington’s corridors of power,” stated the Washington Post.

In the past two decades, the center’s “K Street NW location, just two blocks from the White House, became a bustling gathering place for conservative academics, politicians, journalists, young professionals.” “The noon Mass became known as a ‘Who’s Who’ scene in conservative circles” including “Judge Robert H. Bork, Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.), economist Larry Kudlow and former House speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.).”

“The center’s board includes Leonard Leo, executive vice president of the Federalist Society, which helped shepherd the Supreme Court nominations of Brett M. Kavanaugh and Neil M. Gorsuch. White House counsel Pat Cipollone is a former board member, as is William P. Barr, who served as attorney general under President George H.W. Bush and is now President Trump’s nominee for the same position.” Barr, a “committed Catholic,” was highly recommended by Leonard Leo.

The U.S. judiciary has been shaped not only through Leo’s control over Trump’s judicial appointments but also by the Judicial Crisis Network (JCN) directed by Leo and run by Carrie Severino, a former law clerk for supreme court justice Clarence Thomas.

The JCN is a 501(c)(4) organization, meaning its donors are secret. “It has spent millions across the country to influence the elections of judges and attorneys general as well as judicial appointment and confirmation processes.”

“Leo’s efforts to ensure that Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito were confirmed engaged the dark money spending power of JCN. In 2005 and 2006, Leo and the Federalist Society worked with JCN to coordinate radio and online ads as well as on grassroots efforts to support the confirmation of the right-wing justices.

To block the appointment of Barack Obama’s choice, Merrick Garland, and support the confirmation of Justice Gorsuch, Leo helped coordinate the JCN’s expenditure of $17 million. The campaign was highly effective in allowing Gorsuch, the Federalist Society’s pick, to take the place many thought rightly belonged to Merrick Garland.”

https://opentabernacle.wordpress.com/2019/01/22/opus-deis-influence-is-felt-in-all-of-washingtons-corridors-of-power/

[trev]

64. It does, indeed.

And not a pleasant one.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

71. Makes me feel ill.

[Ford_Prefect]

11. I would like to think so too. With McConnell in charge if the Senate who knows, eh?

With this crew in power, anything and everything seems possible if not likely.

My county commissioners are just as wacky since the Orange Orangutan took over. On the basis of claims supplied by Alex Jones and Infowars, they referred a charge to the Montana AG to investigate 6 local environmentalist groups including the Montana Wildlife Association for allegedly being funded fronts for George Soros and his vast offshore, left-wing conspiracy. We have yet to hear from the AG on this.

[Eyeball_Kid]

35. GOPers will have to turn Democrat. It would take 3-5

Republican Senators to switch to the Democratic Party for McConnell to lose his majority leader status, so that bills can come to the floor of the Senate. Then the new majority leader MUST ELIMINATE the filibuster to disempower McConnell.

[jmowreader]

15. So far he's gotten away with a hell of a lot

The Chief of Staffs of the Army and Air Force, The Chief of Naval Operations and the Commandant of the Marine Corps have the duty to refuse such an illegal order. The Commandant of the Coast Guard can’t accept it because his service HAS arrest authority over civilians but his jurisdiction is limited to admiralty and maritime law.

I really wonder: is the whole point of this to give Trump license to be an imperial president? I figure this to be Trump’s intent:

Step 1: do something so outrageous he has to be impeached to save the republic
Step 2: get acquitted in the Senate
Step 3: take that acquittal as permission to go full dictator on us because he knows no one’s going to stop him

At this point I’d be willing to trade one full term of Mitt Romney, who is one of the few sane Republicans left, for an absolute guarantee Trump, Pence and everyone in the current Cabinet is removed from office and Trump is thrown in prison.

[CrispyQ]

24. +1

I don't think our republic has been in this much danger since its beginnings.

[Ilsa]

38. I guess trump will fire the generals and admirals

Who refuse to pass on the orders, or order them to fire anyone not accepting the orders.

I guess democrats, the elderly, disabled, and LGBTQ would be next.

[keithbvadu2]

65. Romney will say whatever the current audience wants to hear. Another self-serving elitist.

Romney will say whatever the current audience wants to hear.

Another self-serving elitist.

[SCantiGOP]

28. Rand Paul will go apeshit about this

Can we find another handful of Repubs that will not sell out their country just to stay off of Trump's twitter?

[DallasNE]

9. Eisenhower Used That Authority

When the Arkansas National Guard was blocking the court ordered integration of Central High School in Little Rock. Eisenhower sent federal troops to confront the Arkansas National Guard and enforce the court order to integrate Central High School. That was my wake up call in life. Until then I did not realize that segregation was the law in the old South. That was the period of McCarthyism as well so I emerged as a Democrat for life.

[empedocles]

10. Be great to know who is directing trump on all these fascist moves?

[NBachers]

17. I had the same thought- he has neither the intelligence, nor range of knowledge, to do this himself.

[Ligyron]

32. Exactly.

Precisely who and/or what controls Trump is really the issue and that varies from day to day, hell, sometime moment to moment. Nancy Pelosi has her hands on his reins as much as anybody, triggering him almost at will now.

Don the con is a walking talking unintended consequence bomb and could well be an extinction level event for the GOP.

[watoos]

40. If you go to Steve Pieczernik's web site

on You Tube, he has been talking about the deep state and coups from the beginning. He is an Alex Jones pal.

He was a hostage negotiator so he understands mind bending techniques. I have zero proof that he is directing Trump but he certainly seems to be a pretty good predictor of what is going to happen.

[dixiegrrrrl]

21. Stephen Miller is the facist

and Bannon. they got together and wrote many of the exec orders that trump signed 2 seconds after the inauguration.

Miller writes many of the demagoguery ideas in trump's speeches.

[bitterross]

41. I think you are correct.

Stephen Miller should not be underestimated as a true threat to this nation.

He is apparently a very intelligent person with a lot of knowledge about the US laws. I would not be surprised at all if this is the sort of suggestion he is making to Trump.

He is, unfortunately, also a very petty, unfeeling person. A person with no empathy. Much like Trump. A sociopath - narcissism is part of being a sociopath.

There is no heaven or hell. These people must be judged and stopped in THIS lifetime.

[dixiegrrrrl]

55. I read an interview of his family.

They seem very nice people, and are shocked by who he turned out to be.
Another argument for nature vs. nurture.

[whathehell]

58. These people must be judged and stopped in this life..

whether or not there is a heaven or hell.

[bitterross]

60. Good Point

No matter what one's beliefs are, they must be stopped NOW!

[whathehell]

73. Thanks.

[ancianita]

26. Putin. He did the same thing in his own country, with variations. Read Timothy Snyder's

The Road to Unfreedom (2018), which lays out the Eurasian Project of Putin, his think tanks and past philosophers, one of whom he cites in his national addresses frequently, Ivan Ilyan, first conceiver of the newly resurrected Russian identity and geopolitical plan.

We are not in the "Eurasian space," but we are subject to weakening so that it can take place.

What Trump does, step by step, isn't something 45 could possibly have any plan for. You're right. It's someone else's plan. Putin's.

[Eyeball_Kid]

36. Possibility #1: Putin.

Putin is advising Trumpy on a regular basis. Trumpy has all of the Kremlin's talking points on his cheat sheets. He's been using them since 2016. Trumpy wants a piece of Russia's wealth. That's why he's kissing Putin's ass and won't stop until (and if) Putin renders him useless and tosses him under the bus.

[magicarpet]

72. trDump wants to be a Robber Barron Oligarch who operates above and beyond any laws.

He clings to Putin thinking Putin will make him a world class oligarch who is beyond the reach of the long arm of the law.

trDump will then hand off his Untouchable Robber Barron status to his kids so they too can operate beyond the radar screen of any criminality as they seek their pursuits of astounding avarice and gluttony, greed, riches, money, and fame.

[The Blue Flower]

12. He becomes more dangerous by the day

I hope he destroys the R party for all time. In the meantime, we're all in peril of losing this democracy.

[Honeycombe8]

13. I don't think that's legal. It's illegal to use the military forces for civilian purposes.

So no matter what he does, I would think he'd come up against that basic law that prohibits that. I think there's an exception for a national emergency for The National Guard. That's what JFK used for desegregation in the south once, if you remember.

It was foreseen that someone would try to take over the country using the military, or that the military would try, so there are protections against that in place.

There may be an exception for civilians who aren't citizens, but I doubt it.

There seems to be a lot of stuff floating around right now. Some of them are scare tactics, I think.

[jmowreader]

19. The National Guard can be used against civilians

When I was in Basic (I was a federal troop) there were several days when all the National Guard troops were taken to special classes to teach them National Guard missions we Federal troops couldn’t do. The Guard is controlled by its state’s governor, so they can do policing duties in the civilian population in times of emergency.

Thinking back, I wonder why the Army didn’t arrange the National Guard troops’ basic training report dates so they had full companies of Guardsmen.

[Historic NY]

23. They have to be Federalized.....

[link:https://www.npr.org/2018/04/05/599895184/why-president-trump-cant-directly-order-national-guard-troops-to-u-s-mexico-bord|

[Honeycombe8]

29. Yes, I mentioned that...thinking back about JFK's use of it during desegregation.

But someone, I guess the President, has to declare an emergency or something, in order to do that, I think. I know it wasn't the Governor who declared the emergency, because JFK's action was because the Governor refused to obey the segregation laws. Gov. George Wallace?

Nixon used the National Guard for the protest at Kent State during the Vietnam War. They killed several of the peaceful protestors.

But I take the OP article to be referring to what we think of as the armed forces (army, Marines, etc.).

UPDATE to correct: I looked up Kent State. It wasn't Nixon who called the Nat'l Guard. The Kent Mayor declared a state of emergency, then called the Ohio Governor to ask for assistance, since he thought the local police might not be able to handle things. As it turns out, the protest wasn't as peaceful as I thought. Bldgs had been damaged, and the ROTC bldg burned. The Governor called out the Ohio National Guard. Nearly 1000 Ohio National Guardsmen occupied the campus, making it appear like a military war zone.

Maybe that's why Trump declared a national emergency previously, regarding the "invasion" of illegal immigrants. He was setting the stage for using the military. But I think he can use only the Nat'l Guard? At least, that's my impression, and I hope that's true.

[ancianita]

31. Even if it's illegal, military doesn't obey civilian law (it has its own), only the CiC. The ONLY

way to stop it is to stop HIM.

It doesn't matter what his reason. To float the idea, let its fascist scare take hold of right wingers' imaginations, is to make armed people decide who they can win with -- allying with the military and its leader, or allying with the American people.

This is grounds for immediate impeachment and trial that can even be seen by his puppets in the Senate.

[dixiegrrrrl]

47. Our primary protection is Congressional Oversight

but now that the Senate is being held hostage by yertle, the oversight abilities are much diminished.

This plan to use the military as police is another brick in the wall, being placed ahead of whatever they plan that would require the need.
remember what trump said a few weeks back about ..." I have the military"

It is not an over-reaction to be very very concerned about them even floating the idea.
He and his have done a lot of things which we, the public, had not thought of, because it was seen as too conspiracy thinking.

[Sgent]

48. Kennedy

used the 101st Airborne to integrate Ole Miss.

There have always been ways around it.

[Honeycombe8]

61. He used the National Guard @ U of AL.

I didn't know about the Mississippi U incident. It says this in Wiki:

He ordered in U.S. Army military police from the 503rd and 716th Military Police Battalions, which had previously been readied for deployment under cover of the nuclear war Exercise Spade Fork, plus the U.S. Border Patrol and the federalized Mississippi National Guard. U.S. Navy medical personnel (physicians and hospital corpsmen) attached to the U.S. Naval Hospital in Millington, Tennessee, were also sent to the university.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ole_Miss_riot_of_1962

U S Marshals were also there, I think mainly to protect someone. (I didn't see anything about the 101st airborne.)

Although these two incidents were distinguished from anything that would apply to illegal immigrants, if Kennedy and a Governor could do it, I guess Trump could and would.

But in the cases of Kennedy & the Gov I mentioned in another post, those states/governors were in direct violation of Court orders. They refused to obey the court orders, one of which was by the U S Supreme Court. In the case of MS, there was violent rioting going on, and someone had been murdered, with the Governor supporting the group rioting. So the federal govt was forced to get involved.

I'm not so sure the military would obey Trump, if he ordered them to fight illegal immigrants. OTOH, do they have much of a choice? When Trump recently tried using the Nat'l Guard, that didn't go well. The states refused to send their Nat'l Guard.

[uponit7771]

63. Red Dawn will say the federal government have to get involved in this situation too

[Sgent]

67. I didn't have time to track a definitive source

but the Wiki article is I believe wrong. This is from Write Thompson's 2012 (50 yr) article about in Outside the Lines and he credits ABC (which owns ESPN).

11. Oct. 1, 1962

Through the long night, the marshals wait for the U.S. Army regulars. The cavalry, in the form of the 101st and 82nd Airborne and an elite military police unit, is on the way. Troops land in Memphis, Tenn., and head the 85 miles south to the Ole Miss campus. For the first time in a century, the United States Army is invading the state of Mississippi. Black families leave their homes and stand on the side of the highway, silent, as if at attention, watching the Union army speed toward Oxford.

On campus, the troops dismount and rush to rescue the marshals and local National Guardsmen, who are almost out of tear gas again and scared of being overrun, 160 wounded, 28 of them by gunfire. The troops form a wedge and march past the sorority houses, where girls curse and throw books. They march through a storm of bricks and Molotov cocktails, never breaking stride. The precision scares the rioters, as do the shining fixed bayonets. The sound of hundreds of rounds of live ammunition being jacked into hundreds of chambers echoes off the old white buildings, chilling the crowd.

The soldiers march toward University Avenue and, at last, the formation is within sight of the marshals, whose relief comes out as a long, loud cheer. By a little after 5 a.m., the troops have pushed the rioters off the campus. Students, the football team at Miller Hall and Meredith over at Baxter, begin dressing for class, the smell of tear gas still heavy in the air. Marshals slump over in the Lyceum, surrounded by cigarette butts and bloody gauze. Others eat C rations under trees in front of the building. Two men, the French reporter and a local jukebox repairman, lie dead. The campus priest takes down the Confederate flag. The battle is over, and now a state, a school and a football team have to pick up the pieces.

A light rain begins to fall.

https://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/story?page=mississippi62

[spanone]

14. ...And the republicans in the senate will rubber stamp it.

[Perseus]

16. I have to think the courts would not permit that, but nonetheless, the presidency has too much power

After this experience laws have to be implemented that curtail the power of the president. The founders assumed we would never get anyone like the buffoon. They did take measures to prevent a crazy person taking the presidency, but they never thought someone like this creature would.

I know its not easy, bit also the relationship of power between congress and the senate needs to be revised, its not right that a bunch of corrupt senators can kidnap and entire country.

[dixiegrrrrl]

49. Trump told us exactly what they have done

remember those comments, in a sing song voice...about going to the courts, losing, then appealing to a higher court, and losing and then to SCOTUS and winning?
He just put David Vitter's wife on the Federal Judge bench. senate, of course, approved.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

20. I am likewise under the impression that such a thing simply is not legal

in this country.

I would hope that the leaders of the military would refuse to follow such an order. They are supposed to refuse to follow illegal orders, which is what the Nuremburg trials were largely about. Of course, that hasn't kept our soldiers from following blatantly illegal orders in recent years, so maybe I'm putting too much naive faith in the leadership.

[PatrickforO]

22. He's positioning Steven Miller as his very own Reinhard Heydrich.

This will be the subject of my calls to my US Senators and Representative next week for sure.

[defacto7]

25. The framers of our constitution envisioned a method to thwart

the infiltration of an authoritarian regime. They did not anticipate the takeover of mutiple branches of our government in one swoop, the rule changes that those branches could impliment on a whim nor the weakness of mind and ethics that could amass within the very methods that were meant to protect us from tyranny.

[MineralMan]

27. Impeach him if he does this!

Even many republicans would agree.

[book_worm]

30. I don't think I've hated a president as much as I do this one

Not Bush II, Not Reagan, Not Nixon. Everything about Trump is nasty and mean spirited. He has no redeeming qualities at all.

[alwaysinasnit]

33. The biggest weakness of all is that the oaths of office have no teeth. If it did, Mitchy-boy

would not have been able to deny a sitting president a SCOTUS pick, stop virtually any piece of legislation he doesn't like from being voted on, and most importantly, not enable a dictator-wannabe to continue squatting in the White House.

[Mc Mike]

42. Kind of a military type of law. I forget the word for it.

US loves no nazis. We have no king.

You're 0 for 2.

Shitler.

[watoos]

43. So what happens when someone does a Reichstag fire

and Trump declares martial law? Don't think it can't happen.

[lpbk2713]

44. Can Krystal Nacht be that far away?

[beachbum bob]

45. Hate to say it, this will not fly...

[shanti]

46. He's getting all of these ideas

from Putin et al, imo. He wouldn't/couldn't come up with them on his own.

[dixiegrrrrl]

50. He's got other sources, too

bannon...Miller, esp...Gorka....just cause some are not officially holding a gov. job does not mean they are not handy henchmen.

[Kurt V.]

54. i agree. there plenty of ppl right here at home that want chaos.

[Nuggets]

51. I think this is naive

If there is one silver lining, it is this: Trump’s abuses have exposed weaknesses in our laws and institutions that were previously hidden and which we can now begin to try to fix. We learned about one such weakness in February, when Trump relied on the National Emergencies Act to commandeer funding Congress had specifically denied for the construction of a border wall. The latest such legal loophole is another emergency power that could enable the president to turn the military into his own immigration police force.

Sociopaths/narcissists are chameleons. You will just end up making a lot of laws, and while laws may prevent certain things and some of those laws will lose their effect as they find ways around them and then bludgeon the well-intentioned with their laws and morals.

[Beartracks]

52. If Trump wants his-way-or-the-highway, maybe....

... he should've run his businesses better so he could've been a successful CEO and stayed in private industry. Cuz he sucks at and is ignorant of democracy and public sector work.

=======

[democratisphere]

53. Ain't going to happen.

"We the People" won't allow it!

[kimbutgar]

56. I can't believe we have concentration camps in the US!

And who knows if there are mass graves somewhere and children being sex trafficked and abused.

We are in genocide is ok territory now if the country continues under fat donnie and repukes.

I never thought my country would go this low.

[struggle4progress]

57. 18 USC 1385

Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1385

[KBlagburn]

62. If he puts the military on the streets...

of America, there is no going back. Its one more step in his autocratic takeover. This man is dangerous, the likes we have never seen. I know the people like I served with and under would never obey an illegal order like this.

[Mr.Bill]

66. The irony is

the flaw in his plan is that thanks to the republicans and the NRA, there are over 300 million weapons in the hands of the people. And they are making a huge mistake if they think every one with a gun is a republican and on their side.

[roamer65]

68. It would be a direct violation of the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878.

Definitely an impeachable act.

[Progressive Jones]

69. Trump is just a puppet/front. We are in a RW coup, right now. Get to the leaders of that,

and shut it down. Who is pulling Trump's strings? There must be many in on this, including some military brass.

[struggle4progress]

70. I really don't think he could find enough people to cooperate to make that work