Just IMPEACH HIM already and get it over with.

[Laelth]

There's plenty of evidence to support the impeachment of President Donald Trump AS IS. If you consider that one of the Articles of Impeachment against Richard Nixon was "lying to the American people," it's clear that Trump is utterly impeachable and that he becomes more impeachable every day. Add that to the ten counts of obstruction of justice that Robert Meuller described, and it's clear that we need no further investigations. I say, just get it done. Then it's Mitch McConnell's problem, and Democrats can say with a straight face that they did their Constitutional duty. Instead of talking about Trump, Democrats can then focus on the issues that matter to the American people. I suspect that Speaker Pelosi could punt this ball to the Senate (by passing Articles of Impeachment) within 30 days if she wanted to. I would much rather have the Senate responsible for resolving this mess than to continue to talk about Donald Trump's petulant, childish, and privileged criminality.

I hate seeing all these House committees focusing on investigating a person that the American people already know is a lying scoundrel. Just impeach him, already, and then get on with the business of the people. Whether or not Trump is convicted by the Senate is irrelevant. That should be Mitch McConnell's problem. I am sick and tired of talking about the President's criminality. I think it would be wise, strategically, to force the Republicans to talk about it instead. If we impeach Trump in the House (the only Constitutional power the Democratic Party currently has), then Democrats can be done with it all and focus on other issues that matter more to the American people.

-Laelth

[Chin music]

1. Nicely stated.

Yes. First things first. As if ANY bill congress comes up with will pass the Senate, or even be signed by 'the president'.

[Laelth]

9. Exactly, and thank you.

Nobody honestly expects a conviction in the Senate, no matter how much “investigating” and “preparing” we do, but I think it makes our party look petty and partisan to continue these investigations when our Constitutional duty is already crystal clear.

-Laelth

[ScratchCat]

2. Why do people keep forgetting

That Trump has already been implicated in felony campaign finance fraud, a charge for which another individual is doing a prison sentence for?

They should have begun impeachment the day after Michael Cohen presented the checks to Congress. He committed a god damn FELONY!! He should be impeached for THAT ALONE!

What the hell is wrong with people? The media wont even mention this hardly when it comes to impeachment.

Jesus...

Campaign Finance Fraud
Abuse of Power in issuing clearances to family
Abuse of Power in the pardon system
Profiting from foreign government payments to his hotels and golf course
Lying to Bob Mueller and ten other counts of obstruction

None of these charges are the least bit "political". Right wing think-tanks couldn't even defend the security clearances and pardons.

What.The.Hell.Folks.

[Laelth]

6. Well noted.

The list of impeachable offenses is plenty long already. There’s no point in adding more to the list when we know the Senate won’t convict him.

-Laelth

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. What do you think is happening right now?

The groundwork is being laid. Just because they aren't calling it impeachment doesn't mean it isn't in the works. But it's a process, and it has to be well-prepared. It isn't like they can just throw some stuff against the wall and hope it will stick. Yes, there's a lot of stuff already, but when the financial records are produced I'm betting they'll find evidence of financial crimes that even the GOP in the Senate can't ignore. Meanwhile, Trump himself is making it a little easier every day to justify impeachment by his increasingly hysterical demands to stop investigating him. Why would an innocent person worry so much about being investigated? He's just about writing his own articles of impeachment.

It's in the works, but it needs to be done carefully and accurately.

[Laelth]

5. I don't think that the Constitution mandates that Articles of Impeachment must be "well prepared."

Nor are Articles of Impeachment required to be produced either carefully or accurately. All that’s required is for the House of Representatives to have enough votes to pass them. We control the chamber. We have enough votes. It’s time to punt this ball and let the Senate proceed with a trial.

Our continuing to “investigate” is just feeding Trump’s “witch hunt” narrative. I say get it done and move on.

-Laelth

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

14. I respectfully disagree.

Let the investigations continue for a little longer until the public starts to notice how unlawful and outrageous Trump's behavior is. Right now it's just us politics junkies and some cable news talking heads who are paying attention. The Trump cult will never change their minds but there are a lot of people out there who haven't been paying attention - but they soon will. That's exactly what happened to Nixon on account of the Watergate hearings - in less than two years he went from 67% approval to 24%, and that's what made likely not just impeachment in the House but conviction in the Senate possible. Trump never even started out that high. The impeachment process has already started; they just aren't calling it that. Yet.

[Laelth]

15. I think we pay far too much attention to the polls.

Every once in a while, even a politician ought to listen to his or her conscience.

I took an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States. Donald Trump is an affront to that document and to the United States. I want to hold my head high and say that my party stood up for the Constitution when it mattered. I think it matters now.

Thank you for the respectful reply.

-Laelth

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

16. I think the way they're doing it now isn't betraying their consciences.

They're just following a different path to the same end.

[Laelth]

17. I think the egos of some key committee chairs ...

... are the principal obstacles to impeachment, at this point. I say sacrifice the committee chairs (Schiff, Cummings, Nadler) for the greater good.

-Laelth

[StarfishSaver]

19. The Constitution doesn't say the Articles must be "well-prepared" but common sense and

responsibility to the American people do.

[Laelth]

24. Why?

Why does common sense dictate that Articles of Impeachment should be “well-prepared” when history shows that the Senate has never convicted a President pursuant to Articles of Impeachment. Do you actually think that the Senate will convict Trump if we merely lay out an air-tight case against him? I don’t. In my mind, common sense says just get it done. Show some backbone. Stand up for the Constitution. Make this Mitch McConnell’s problem, and then focus on a positive vision for the American people.

-Laelth

[StarfishSaver]

26. I can't believe you're asking someone to explain to you why Articles need to be "well-prepared"

But if you really don't know - or have some other reason to ask such a question - my explaining it to you won't make any difference, so I'll not waste my time.

[Laelth]

33. I get your point. I hope, at some point, that you will get mine. n/t

-Laelth

[StarfishSaver]

39. I get your point

Loud and clear.

[Laelth]

41. Thank you.

And cheers!

-Laelth

[uponit7771]

4. A drawn out investigation and hearing process is more politically damaging to Red Don than a vote

... right now.

Moving for impeachment ... WITHOUT ... hearings or investigation is the wrong move. It's a ...... of the HUGE political mistake the republicans made against a Clinton who was a relatively popular president ... TO REPUBLICANS.

The population needs to be brought along, the reasons why need to be said over and over again and drumbed into the low volum of independents and swing voters heads.

[Initech]

7. Agreed! I think it's more fun watching him squirm.

Today he really showed he's up shit creek without a paddle. I say pass the butter and enjoy watching the fail boat known as SS Trump sink his own ship.

[Laelth]

8. I disagree.

Everybody knows Trump is a lying criminal. His base doesn’t care. I think we feed Trump’s “witch hunt” narrative by continuing to investigate him. I would rather just impeach him and then let the Senate and the SDNY deal with it while Democrats in the House (and on the campaign trail) focus on issues that matter more to the American people.

-Laelth

[Chin music]

10. ++1

Yes. And bring bills forward before the election that DON'T get time in the Senate, or signed by the President. An epic reminder to folks before they vote, why we aren't 4 years ahead of the last time we dragged our asses to the polls, and took others along with us.
Do their duty, then get back to work. let the senate and trump hang themselves.

[uponit7771]

21. His base isn't the people we're trying to reach, it's the never Trumpers and the small middle and

... impeachment does matter to America.

Right now impeachment for Trump is higher than Nixon without Saturday night massacre.

[Laelth]

11. George W. Bush was "selected" President in 2000 following Clinton's impeachment.

Since 1973, impeached Presidents are always followed by a President of the other party. I see no downside to impeaching Trump.

-Laelth

[Gothmog]

12. Do you think that we can get 20 GOP senators to vote to remove??

It takes 67 votes in the Senate to remove. I do not see this happening

[Laelth]

13. No. Conviction in the Senate is unrealistic.

No President has ever been convicted by the Senate, and that's why I think these endless investigations are useless. I think we would be better off just doing our Constitutional duty by impeaching the lying scoundrel in the White House and then moving on to the issues that matter to the American people.

I want to punt this ball. Let's make it Mitch McConnell's problem.

-Laelth

[StarfishSaver]

18. And then what?

[Laelth]

20. Then the party can move on and work for the people.

Nobody expects a conviction in the Senate, but I would like to be able to say that my party stood up for the Constitution when it mattered. If we just impeach Trump and move on we can make all this the Senate’s problem and then focus on a positive vision for the American people.

-Laelth

[uponit7771]

22. We can make it the senates problem after the Never Trumps and the small amount of independents have

... his numbers in the dump.

Right now never trumpers are still with Trump dispite what their words say.

[Laelth]

28. We can't move his numbers.

They’re rock-solid around 42%, but my sense is that “the middle” is sick of talking about Trump’s criminality and that we play into his “witch hunt” narrative by continuing our investigations.

-Laelth

[uponit7771]

35. Not his base number, we can move his republican numbers though. I understand the M$M focus's on his

... base which does ... NOT ... include never Trumpers.

[Wounded Bear]

23. The party is working for the people...

they already pushed through an election reform bill.

They had a plan for infrastructure today and Trump had his little hissy fit and blew them off.

They've been working on real prescription drug reform.

It's not Dems that are blocking getting things done, it's Trump and McConnell in the Senate.

Ms Pelosi and Mr Schumer can walk and chew gum at the same time.

[Laelth]

29. The media focuses on our investigations.

This is hurting us, imo. If we just impeach Trump and drop all our investigations, we can focus on laying out a positive agenda for America and let Mitch McConnell deal with the trial of Trump in the Senate. I think that strategy would serve the party better.

-Laelth

[StarfishSaver]

25. How?

What will be different after impeachment without conviction and removal that will let the Democrats work for the American people in any way they can't now?

[Laelth]

30. Two things.

First, history shows that since 1973, an impeached President is always followed by a President of the other party (Carter, 1976; Bush, 2000). Second, standing up for the Constitution is the right thing to do. Trump is a disgrace to the office and an affront to the Constitution.

If we are too cowardly to impeach Trump, we are poorly serving the American people as a political party.

-Laelth

[StarfishSaver]

32. That has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

But I'm sure you know that but think your response serves a different purpose.

Perhaps it does, but you'll have to try to achieve it without me.

[Me.]

27. Do It Imperfectly

and we're stuck with him for a long, long time. Do it correctly, meaning getting all ducks in a row and we can be rid of him in a year.

Yes we know he is all the things you have stated but, like it or not, it has to be proven, even if we are correct.

[Laelth]

31. I am sorry, but you are wrong.

Nothing has to be proven. Articles of Impeachment just have to be passed by the House. That’s it. There is no other Constitutional requirement.

-Laelth

[Me.]

34. You Do Have To Make The Case

you can't just say willy nilly we are impeaching you. And you have to prove it to the public so they support you.

[Laelth]

36. The public already knows that Trump is a lying scoundrel.

Personally, I think they're tired of talking about it. I would prefer to drop all the investigations that fuel Trump's "witch hunt" narrative and focus on a positive agenda for America. Just getting the impeachment over and done with seems, to me, to quickest way to "move on" from all of this.

-Laelth

[Me.]

37. WE Disagree

but as Nancy said, all points of view must be considered

[Laelth]

38. Fair enough.

Thank you for an interesting discussion.

-Laelth

[AncientGeezer]

40. Speaker Pelosi seems to think she may not have the votes...

What do you think of that?

[Laelth]

42. That is entirely possible, and it is the best explanation I have yet heard for her caution.

That said, Speaker Pelosi is the best arm-twister I have seen in the 30+ years that I have been following politics. I firmly believe that when, and if, she wants impeachment to happen, it will, and it will happen quickly.

-Laelth

[AncientGeezer]

43. ...

Link to tweet

[Laelth]

44. Thank you for that.

It's frustrating when my fight is against my own party, but it is what it is.

Once again, I find myself being a "grow a spine!" Democrat. I have observed the spinelessness of my political party for many years now, and it is depressing, to say the least. Let us hope that some spine is currently growing within the party, but let me also ask you this:

If we won't impeach Trump, who will we impeach?

Sigh.

-Laelth

[dalton99a]

45. Start the impeachment hearings.

And call them that