why doesn't the various states remove

[gopiscrap]

children from homes of parents and or guardians who refuse to vaccinate their children?

[Ilsa]

1. And put them where?

Foster homes in many states are full, as are group homes. Taking kids from their families is cruel.

The key is to educate the parents, and maybe attach a financial fine if their child is a serious disease vector that could have been avoided.

[gopiscrap]

2. what about taking custody of them

and driving them to a clinic to vaccinate them and then release them to parents

[hughee99]

7. So, forced vaccination?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for vaccination, but it seems like the government seizing children and forcing them to be vaccinated might not be the best way to go.

[gopiscrap]

8. yes forced vaccination

[melm00se]

16. The Supreme Court has ruled on this matter.

While the state can levy punishment for failure to vaccinate the Supreme Court stopped short of forced vaccinations as that would be cruel and unusual punishment.

[gopiscrap]

3. not vaccinating kids is cruel also to the kid and to the community

[Ilsa]

4. You don't have to convince me about vaccinations.

What if the child was vaccinated recently, but the data hasn't been entered into the state database yet? Take them anyway?

You're looking for an authoritarian solution to a problem where education is the answer. We don't take children from parents unless they are in imminent danger.

[gopiscrap]

9. measles is putting the child in imminent danger

[Ilsa]

11. Again, education is key, and herd immunity is why vaccination programs work.

Here is a CDC link: https://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html

There are many reasons, including religion and fear, that parents use to not vaccinate. The answer is in educating them about what these diseases do. The answer isn't to traumatize their children for life like trump has done at the border.

I'm not going to argue this point any more. Propose it to your state representatives and let them take it up instead of bouncing it off us when you've obviously made up your mind and don't want objective feedback.

[treestar]

12. They are not convinced by education

They already have been told. I wonder though if it is the law to have them vaccinated, and there might be some lesser penalty.

https://www.futurity.org/vaccination-kids-rights-laws-1983792/

All states have mandatory vaccination laws. These are generally enforced through making vaccinations a requirement for school enrollment, including preschool and daycare. Enforcement through child welfare laws is not very common, since child protection laws generally require the threat of serious harm to the child, which may be hard to establish.

In fact the only penalty goes against the child mostly, as they are not getting an education. Anti-vaxxers would be home schoolers at best.

More interesting information at that link. They say anti-vaccination stances are increasing, and that could lead to stricter laws if there are outbreaks.

[gopiscrap]

13. then re vaccinate to make sure

[TomSlick]

5. If the States cited - and jailed - a few antivaxer parents for child neglect,

I suspect the problem would be solved.

[Mariana]

10. I don't think so.

Especially among those who are convinced that vaccination is against God's will.

Vaccinations were so popular, back in the day, because most parents personally knew of people who had died, or had been rendered permanently disabled by these diseases. They had seen it with their own eyes, when it happened to their friends, relatives, neighbors, etc.

I'm afraid this problem won't go away until after a bunch of kids die.

[TomSlick]

17. Real martyrs are hard to find.

In my experience that God often speaks to people in jails in the wee hours of the morning showing them the error of their ways.

[Mariana]

19. That may be true.

Even so, State lawmakers don't seem inclined, at this time, to pass laws that will allow antivaxxer parents to be cited and/or jailed for child neglect. Until that happens, God won't be talking to antivaxxer parents in jail in the wee hours of the morning, showing them the error of their ways. Given that, I still think we're stuck with the antivaxxers until a bunch of kids die.

[TomSlick]

20. I fear you are correct.

If gun violence has taught us anything, a few children dying does not trouble our representatives.

[gopiscrap]

14. agreed

and billed the parents for child care if it is needed while being incarcerated

[WhiskeyGrinder]

6. Because separating children from their families is generally traumatic.

[MineralMan]

15. Far too draconian. There are better ways.

This country is not a tyranny quite yet.

[TomSlick]

18. I hear ya but....

We cannot allow people to threaten their children - and other children - based on their crackpot ideas. Refusing to vaccinate children is child neglect - if not abuse. As such, it cannot go unaddressed.

[MineralMan]

21. It's really a recent dilemma.

I was born in 1945. I got a smallpox vaccination, a tetanus vaccination, and a diphtheria vaccination as a baby. That was it, until I was 11 and got a polio vaccination.

Growing up, I caught chicken pox, measles, mumps, whooping cough, the flu, and anything else that went around. Like almost every other kid, I got well and went back to school.

One girl I I knew developed encephalitis from the measles, and was out of school for an entire year. A few more got polio, but none died or ended up in an iron lung.

We didn't have the other vaccines. Smallpox is now eradicated. Kids no longer have that vaccination scar. Diphtheria is unheard of, too, but the vaccine is still given, as is the polio vaccine.

Vaccination saves lives, and can even eradicate diseases. As an adult, I've had several other vaccinations: typhoid, typhus, cholera, pneumococcus, flu, and even an experimental plague vaccine.

I'm a big fan of vaccination.

However, I'm opposed to forced vaccination. Some can't have them, for medical reasons, and others have religious objections. In those cases, keeping unvaccinated children out of schools works. Homeschooling is an alternative.

However, I remember when those common childhood diseases were just part of everyone's childhood. I'm glad they're not, now. But, almost everyone survived them when I was a child.

Different times.

[TomSlick]

22. I'm almost with you.

I did know a guy (some older than I and since dead) who was confined to a wheelchair and slept in an iron lung from childhood polio.

I'm hard pressed not to carve out an exception for sincere religious objections. (I spend some amount of my time doing legal work for Christian Scientists who are generally opposed to medical treatment but allow for vaccinations that are required by law.) However, even home schooled children move about in society - and exposing the world to their infections. From my limited research, there appear to be few religions that really forbid vaccinations. See, [link:https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion| Whether there should be limited religious exceptions requires more thought.

Part of my problem is that I have a new grandson who is too young for vaccinations. The thought that the nice family at the next booth at McDonalds could be anti-vaxers makes me a little crazy.

Society has a right and duty to protect itself from crackpots who insist on exposing others to illness. Of course, those who can't be vaccinated for medical reason cannot be required to endanger themselves. However, I am just not completely convinced that society can tolerate multitudes of Typhoid Marys walking among us.