Impeach or Not? Jonathon Capehart just made a good point.

[rufus dog]

As a person who firmly believes he must be impeached I have to agree with Capehart's opinion. Basically he states we are on the road to impeachment, it is going to happen. BUT, public opinion needs to be behind the impeachment and isn't there yet.

A DUer posted a graph yesterday displaying the public opinion trend for impeaching Nixon, it took a few months but went from 20% to over 50% in a few months, then Nixon quit.

EDIT TO ADD - They are still fighting the point on AM Joy right now. Very similar to the fighting on DU.

[dlk]

1. Public Hearings are What Changed Public Opinion of Nixon

Public hearings will bring Trump’s crimes into prime time. A good place to start is with his taxes and money laundering. Especially since so many Americans just faced the unpleasant realities of his “tax cut.”

[NurseJackie]

3. I'm very much in favor of public hearings.

The sooner the better.

[PeeJ52]

29. Public hearings on local network television so everyone can see...

Even though we might think everyone gets their info from Fox, CNN, or MSNBC, their share of viewership is actually very small. Fox is the largest, and they only get around 2 1/2 million viewers a night during prime time. That's pretty puny in a country of 320+ million. Most people get their news in 10 -15 minute segments from NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox and Sinclair locally affiliated networks. Impeachment hearings will be covered on local stations where everyone can see them. Fox and Sinclair won't be able to give their "slant" to the news as easily when it is covered so heavily and the same as everyone else. Hearings won't need "analysis". People can perform their own analysis by what they see and hear in witness testimony and behavior of their elected representatives.

[KPN]

30. Yup. Time for public hearings.

[groundloop]

33. Yes, and make Tiny testify (if a President can be made to testify about a blow job then Tiny.....

If a sitting President can be forced to give testimony concerning a private act between consenting adults the certainly Tiny should have to testify about Collusion and Corruption (except that we already know what's important to repubs).

[anarch]

2. yes, yes...start the process; get people to understand what the report really says, etc.

Just put the pressure on, that's the main thing as far as I'm concerned. Enough is enough.

[rufus dog]

8. We often make fun of low information voters

Pondering that, maybe we are a bit elitist in that area. (no, they should really understand basics of democracies)

Just because we know the crimes, think it is an obvious conclusion, doesn't mean the majority of voters are there yet.

[anarch]

15. these people are kept "low-information" on purpose (or, you know, mis-leading information)

it's not exactly their fault, and they are thoroughly propagandized, and all the media really cares about at the corporate controllership level is ratings. I wonder, if I walked down my street and knocked on doors right now, how many of my neighbors even know who the fuck William Barr is. Hell, I saw some statistic the other day about some ridiculous percentage of surveyed people who said they had never heard of Mike Pence. I mean WTF. We have to do what we can to combat it.

[pangaia]

22. Part of the dumbing down of America.

But then, America was has been on the dumber end of the scale...

[KPN]

31. Ditto.

[loyalsister]

39. Not everyone is interested

It amazes me that cable news junkies and devoted partisans believe they are inherently smarter than everyone who does not religiously follow politics, as well as many members of congress.
I think it is appropriate for congressional leaders to follow the process on the timeline set in accordance with the information they have.
To believe one knows the only truth is elitist. To believe it based on very limited information is foolish. Reading the Mueller report is not enough. There is still A LOT we don't know.

[FreepFryer]

4. Here's that graphic

https://mobile.twitter.com/kevinmkruse/status/1103007477661138945

[rufus dog]

9. Thanks FreepFryer

Helps to display steep rise.

[FreepFryer]

11. Indeed, and it shows that the hearings began shortly after Nixon's peak, after the Paris Peace Talks

There was no certainty. Just criminality.

[erronis]

41. Interesting to note that a surreal 24% still approved of Nixon. Just like dumpf.

And I'm a firm believer that these pro con-men 25-30% aren't really who they seem to be. Polling is wildly inaccurate and reflects both the pollers' biases as well as the demographics.

If push came to shove, which it looks like it might, I'd guess only 5-10% really want to rip this country apart in order to justify their allegiance to someone who hates them.

[FreepFryer]

42. Agreed! We are being pummeled with BS reasons to consider ourselves optionless.

That’s no accident. One will not exercise options that one believes are beyond them.

[mcar]

5. Poll out todays shows 53% of all voters say Don't Impeach

https://medium.com/@ChngRsrch/voters-satisfied-with-mueller-investigation-divided-on-how-to-move-forward-c34b3157488e

Of course, that includes 99% of Republican voters. I'd like to see a poll of independent and NPA voters on the issue.

I also think these numbers will change and get worse for Dotard as time goes on.

Open hearings is the way to get the information to the public. That is what the House Democrats are doing.

[dottie66]

32. open hearings but wait till after 2020 election to hold impeachment trial

If we only get one shot at it then investigate now. There is so much to investigate now including financial problems. Then, if needed, do the impeachment trial after 2020 if Trump wins. But if he's out of office then indictments may take over.

[erronis]

43. So if national elections can be so easily rigged, how about polls?

I don't mean to pick you your post specifically and you are only reporting some other site's reporting of some other information gathered from many other locations.

If the operatives were able to manipulate voting in the US elections as well as likely state (and local?) elections, why wouldn't they be manipulating polling data?

Wikileaks, cambridge analytica, fakefuck?

Of course I trust DU but we need to be constantly vigilant and miscreants will slip through.

[riversedge]

6. It would be great if trumpy followed the Nixon saga..........

....A DUer posted a graph yesterday displaying the public opinion trend for impeaching Nixon, it took a few months but went from 20% to over 50% in a few months, then Nixon quit.

[rufus dog]

10. See post #4

Freepfryer posted it for us.


EDIT - FIX TO CORRECT DAMN POST # I REFERENCED!!!!!!

[4139]

7. Ride the wave, stay right with the wave... too far in front and you'll stall

Over the next few week a little more of the mueller report will become unredacted and the wave will build a little more

[NewJeffCT]

12. Democrats need to have public hearings

get McGahn, Lewandowski, Don Jr, Jared Kushner, Steve Bannon, Erik Prince, etc on the stand.

Hire an experienced prosecutor to handle ALL the questioning of witnesses, none of these 5 minute round robin BS where everybody gets their 2 cents. While you can get some great questions, it's also a lot of grandstanding by members of Congress and time wasting by the person questioned. If a committee has 13 Democrats and 10 Republicans, have the prosecutor get all the Democratic time (65 minutes or more) and the Republican attorney get 50 minutes, and then each side gets time for rebuttal.

Have a set of hearings on Lying to Congress/Perjury and call Prince, Don Jr, etc.

Have another set of hearings on Obstruction of Justice

Have another set of hearings on Witness Tampering and Abuse of Power

Have another set of hearings on Collusion/Conspiracy

Watch "too stupid to prosecute" Kushner and Don Jr wilt under pressure and start stabbing each other, and others, in the back, and then Bannon comes and stabs both of them in the back.

[mcar]

28. This!

Hire an experienced prosecutor to handle ALL the questioning of witnesses, none of these 5 minute round robin BS where everybody gets their 2 cents.

[NewJeffCT]

46. I just remember Ollie North

from IranContra having his own defense lawyer with him while being questioned "I'm not a potted plant" Brendan Sullivan.

[Bradical79]

13. Yeah, need to keep digging and exposing

And there are things the Mueller investigation didn't cover. We don't know exactly what's going on with the state investigations at the moment, and his finances need examined in depth.

[SunSeeker]

14. Public opinion won't change unless we take a stand and call for impeachment hearings. nt

[procon]

17. As all the House investigations ramp up and

additional evidence starts piling up against Trump, public interest will grow. Mueller handed off several related cases to state AGs for prosecution, and those too, will increase the media attention that in turn drives public scrutiny.

[Shanti Mama]

18. Change your title to Public Hearings that lead to Impeachment Proceedings

and you've got it!

We need for people to understand that this process must be deliberate.

[pangaia]

24. Public hearings on a gallows so those being questioned

know the consequences of lying.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallows#/media/File:Gallows_in_Texas,_1916.jpg

[chia]

19. Start impeachment NOW, work with the momentum, get it all out in public

Stop with the excess of pragmatism already...

[erronis]

45. Agree. Start the proceedings. If it makes sense to delay/defer later, then do so.

Nothing like the smell of "Impeachment in the Morning" to get some recalcitrant repuglicons and blue-dog dems to sense the way the wind is blowing.

Besides, I think the trumpfam will decide that DC/USA is not a good place to do "business" and decamp in the middle of the night.
(That image of scurrying rats piling into black SUVs headed to some dark place in history is so appealing.)

[uponit7771]

20. That would be great if Red Don and Baghdad Barr doesn't stonewall till 2029

[CaptainTruth]

21. Yes, I agree we need the public (voters) behind us before impeaching.

This is why I want to see Congress (committees) continue to investigate & make the case to the public. They need to lay out, in full detail, all the awful things Trump has done.

[Nitram]

23. I agree.

[Fiendish Thingy]

25. You use the process to shift public opinion

Which in turn puts pressure on the GOP, especially the 20 senators up for reelection in 2020.

Only fear based defeatists think we should wait for "the math" before beginning proceedings, or worse, are certain "the math" will never change, and so impeachment is off the table.

If people can give their lives protecting the Constitution, then risking an election seems small in comparison.

This is a moment where those with courage will stand out from the cowards.

[sprinkleeninow]

35. Bold. So true. I've been weighing all and recently favor hiring expert

prosecutors, commencing a deep and far reaching investigation, bringing articles of impeachment. Concurrently.

How disheartening, disturbing, dangerous that we have come to this in our day.

"If people can give their lives protecting the Constitution, then risking an election seems small in comparison."

[panfluteman]

26. The House Needs to do Its Oversight Duty

And get all the evidence out on the table. Public hearings should also be conducted, as another poster suggested, as an effective tool for changing public opinion. Then hopefully, we can peel off enough Republican senators to impeach. But even if we can't, and the Republican Senate keeps on aiding and abetting Trump in his criminal, unconstitutional and treasonous activities, they will pay for it at the ballot box in 2020. Whatever happens, initiating impeachment proceedings is a win / win situation - we win no matter what the Republicans choose to do.

[DallasNE]

27. Mueller's Probe

Appears to be very thorough in some cases and non-existent in other cases. We need to know why some things were not pursued by Mueller. We need Congress to call Rosenstein and then Mueller to answer on the scope/limits placed on the investigation. I have a hunch that Rosenstein succumbed to pressure from Trump. Why, for instance, was perjury not charged against Sanders, Sessions, Don Jr. and Prince. According to the Mueller report there is documentation that all 4 lied to Congress. And how do you correct these glaring deficiencies? If they were considered small fish they shouldn't have been.

[Ford_Prefect]

36. Some of the missing investigation may have been farmed out, and some may have been outside

the remit. Outside means that what they found was in the domain of another authority due to security issues, ongoing work by a security agency for instance, or material that must for now remain classified for genuine reasons of national security.

At this point I trust Mueller and his team did good, solid, careful, professional, legal and responsible work. Events may prove me wrong.

It took a long time for Congress and the Nation to both arrive at the point where Nixon's Impeachment was seen as the necessary and legal response to the events which the evidence made clear had actually taken place. There was enormous resistance to pursuing this course by both GOP and institutional interests. The whole question of whether this step was appropriate was new and vexed by political considerations. Accusations were rife that this was a witch hunt by Democrats to smear Nixon and Republicans alike. The press was divided over whether the cover-up rated as a significant crime worthy of constitutional redress.

And bear in mind there was far less evidence than we have in the Mueller Report(redacted or not).

[DallasNE]

40. Agree On Point About Professional, Solid Work By Mueller Team

In most areas but there are those gaps. Why do they exist. I avoided the financial stuff assuming the SDNY is handling those. Why was the known perjury not charged? And there is the issue of witnesses pleading the 5th. You can't use the 5th in the furtherance of obstruction, only self incrimination. And the witness can be given limited immunity. Something doesn't sound right there. This is an unexplored area as contempt looks like an unused option. Were Mueller's hands tied by Rosenstein? I think things are increasingly pointing in that direction. He was a Trump asset, just like Sen. Burr.

[EveHammond13]

34. great discussion - I was listening on TuneIn so could not see who was talking but

who was the woman making excellent BOOM points on why impeachment was necessary

loved it.

[rufus dog]

37. I don't recall her name

She is on often and always remains calm with reasoned responses.

Joy is more like me, Impeach the MFer, this has going on for three years. Unfortunately there are so many people who believe the Steel Dossier is thoroughly debunked. This is due to the simple fact that tRump and repukes say it and the MSM repeats it. Hell they were saying it this morning. Here is a suggestion make a slide with bullet points, put check points on those proven, strikeout those dis proven and leave the other ones open.

On a positive it has seemed to calm down here.

[delisen]

38. This is true. The investigations take time and are likely to lead

to the people deciding and letting their representatives know impeachment is necessary.

[DeminPennswoods]

44. Charlie Sykes also pointed out that

Fox News will cover these hearings and thus Fox News viewers will be forced to hear the actual testimony and evidence.