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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAre Americans (Really) So Dumb They Don't Know Fascism When They See It?
https://eand.co/are-americans-really-so-dumb-they-dont-know-fascism-when-they-see-it-34cae64efa72How Come When The Prez Says Animals, No One Uses the Word Fascism?
I was greeted this morning by the spectacle of a President calling refugees and immigrants animals on Twitter. But that wasnt the truly disgraceful thing. I scrolled through my Twitter feed, hoping. Would this be the day? After all, no one had done it so far. Not in the New York Times, not the Post, not CNN, not MSNBC. Perhaps, perhaps. This would finally be the day, wouldnt it?
I mean, this was over the line. And how many more lines are there to be crossed? So I checked, and checked. Chris Hayes, Jake Tapper, Beto (I think), pundit after pundit, politician after politician. They were vehement in their outrage and condemnation. But there was something missing. The most important something of all, as Orwell taught us his test, which were still flunking.
Not a single person I could see had the courage, grace, sense, or wisdom to use the simple but accurate word, concept, idea, historical lesson, fascism. (In fact, looking at my Twitter feed, I was the only one who did. And nobody much seemed to care. Dont cry for me, dummy. Cry for you.) Because all of this raises a simple and serious question. Its an ugly and inelegant one but I think it has to be asked at this point so forgive me.
<snip>
After all, fascism has very simple, very complete criteria. What are those criteria? Americans pretend as if this is some kind of grand philosophical endeavor some kind of post-modern game hey, the truth of fascism cant be known! And yet the checklist for what fascism is and what it isnt couldnt be simpler. Insult people who disagree with you? Youre just a jerk, not a fascist. Use racial slurs? Youre a racist, and you could be a fascist. But support, call for, encourage, do all, or indeed just enough, of the following things demonization, dehumanization, collective punishment and blame, expropriation, dispossession, genocide atrocity institutionalize them in the hands of the state and my friend, congratulations: you are a fascist.
<snip>
Let me ask it again. If the entire world, beginning with its children, knows fascism when they see it why dont Americans? The adults? Not just average Americans but their luminaries, their so-called best and brightest? Their leaders? Thinkers? Intellectuals? What does it say when a man like Chris Hayes, the horn-rimmed golden boy of feel-good liberalism, with his own media empire apparently doesnt know fascism when he sees it? What the? Did he not go to grade school? Was he educated in the 1300s? When a single New York Times or Washington Post columnist doesnt?
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WhiskeyGrinder
(22,351 posts)certainot
(9,090 posts)and simultaneously see no pushback from the left.
msnbc just had on another pitiful panel attacking fox and not a single mention of what sets the table for fox and what makes it 'acceptable'. fox is the cartoon cliff notes for talk radio. rw radio is invisible to liberals and media and the city-dwellers and their political analysis is as useful as if they're studying fish without water.
limbaugh and an army of a few hundred radio parrots hiding behind call screeners on stations licensed to operate in the public interest and often supported by university and pro sports programs, decide what fascism is and what socialism is, and how many cowardly death threats are aimed at omar, aoc, schiff, and nadler. and they will decide how long it will take dems to take down trump, what kind of concessions and compromises they will be forced into, how hard and death-defying it will be for judges, juries, and GOP politicians to do the right thing, and how much damage trump will get away with.
all because the 'left'/dems/libersals' organizations can't see the forest for the trees and keep wasting donation and activism on the symptoms of not challenging rw radio, the biggest political mistake in history.
all they have to do is start polling for it, digitizing it with the new AI-enhanced transcription, monitoring and studying it until the invisibility cloak is lifted, and with a few protests and boycotts the ad industry will finally have to start asking their radio clients if they really want to support trump, global warming denial, fascism, racism, islamophobia, and death threats aimed at democratic representatives and senators and investigators trying to do the right thing.
then political talk radio will be democratized and the 20-1 monopoly will be destroyed by the 'market forces'.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,351 posts)messages from Trump on TV, from their friends, and online. They want an easy answer, and populist demagogues fit the bill.
certainot
(9,090 posts)messages from Trump on TV, from their friends, and online
are largely established with repetition only talk radio can do. the cons don't believe dems want millions of illegal aliens to vote (or 'hillary wears army boots') just because they got it in an email or on facebook. they believe it because it's a ramped-up version of 20 years of unchallenged radio repetition of racist immigrant hate and lying used to pass voter suppression legislation.
they don't support a giant talking orange asshole because he's likeable, they support him because the trump team studied 1000s of hours of talk radio in 2014 (said sam nunberg to gabriel sherman for NY Magazine 4/3/16) so he could piggyback decades of attacks on liberals, democrats, and hillary, channel the talk radio gods, and co-coordinate with the russian trolling ops without direct communication.
suddenly not ignoring talk radio would be the single most offensive and damaging offensive move by democrats. the real fascists and racists are few but their megaphone is the loudest and until dems stop ignoring it they're going to keep swaying apathetic and too-busy americans their way and the city dwelling liberals and media are going to keep letting them pretend they're a lot bigger than they are.
if trump or putin would pay $1000 for a one hour radio infomercial 1200 stations x 15 hrs/day is worth $5BIL of fascism and lies/year. most of the other rw media depends on that unchallenged repetition (locally coordinated, unlike fox) to remain unchallenged.
Perseus
(4,341 posts)Who ever said "Ignorance is bliss" was someone who did not understand about consequences, and that is what happens to those people who support the buffoon, they think they are immune to the disaster they are creating. Some of them will benefit from it, but the majority will not, even those with tons of money who have supported the buffoon will fall on their faces, what they don't know is the buffoon wants their money too, and if he succeeds in becoming a dictator, he will only need to take it, and he will. That is exactly what happened in Venezuela, a lot of very rich people supported Chavez and when Chavez didn't need them anymore, he took their businesses, their properties, everything, which is the same that Castro did in Cuba.
riverine
(516 posts)Brazil, Turkey, Eastern Europe come to mind.
Italy and Spain may tilt hard right soon.
rampartc
(5,407 posts)and there are definate plans for venezuela.
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)and not only in the US. We can see a worldwide resurgence of fascist thought and tactics. Yes,
we fought fascists in WWII and we're having to do it again now. That's a sad commentary on the percentage of people who accept and support fascism. I thing that even now the anti-fascists are in the majority but we have to act to stamp it out before the shooting starts again.
onecaliberal
(32,861 posts)Mc Mike
(9,114 posts)When the nazi repugs think they have an actual hard core 10%, we'll hear about it from them.
Til then, it's just them murder mouthing empty threats of civil war and fascist take over.
And - like Hitler, Mussolini, Pinochet, and most other fascist regimes - behind that trend is big business.
They want as many voters as possible to be so radicalized, that no reforms - however modest - could ever be possible.
certainot
(9,090 posts)liberals, dems, and the left ignore
Mr. Ected
(9,670 posts)They think it's only a political retort to call their fascism by its real name.
Just as they believe that the Mueller investigation was a political hit job when in fact it was aimed at a fascist takeover of America as just a small part of a worldwide epidemic.
America's greatest enemy is Americans. Stupid, ill-informed, angry Americans.
luvtheGWN
(1,336 posts)I'm suggesting -- not much if anything at all. I came to that conclusion just a few weeks ago while watching Jeopardy. Two contestants were American and the other was Canadian. The final question was about WWII, regarding France's defensive line (ditch) against German invasion. Only the Canadian knew that the answer was the Maginot Line (and that's because we all were taught as much as we could possibly take in about both world wars in history class). The 2 Americans hadn't a clue. That's when I realized that, if American kids ONLY learn about WWII from the time the US entered the war, and if they only learn about the exploits of American soldiers (and this can be verified, sadly, by several war movies recently) then they probably have never been taught about the fascist regime of Mussolini, nor that while the word NAZI is short for National Socialist Party, it had nothing whatsoever to do with socialism. Considering that less than 30% ever receive post-high school education, and that less than 30% even have passports, it's really no surprise that they don't recognize fascism when it's right on their doorstep.
Please correct me if my assumptions are incorrect.
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Not all but far too many ...and most of those think it's actually the "American way".
Fascism has been in America since the 20's. Since its inception by Mussolini.
It traveled back across the pond and took on a decidedly American conservative flavor.
plimsoll
(1,670 posts)Called the KKK the first proto-fascist organization.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Mussolini coalesced them... put a name to it. Brought them together in a singular ideology.
When it hit America, the ideology, it was given an American makeover - god (Christianity), flag (wrapping oneself in a symbol over the expressed and lived form granted by the Constitution), country ("real" America for "real" Americans)...and guns (war, law & order, "defense" - what became a symbol for the meaning of freedom).
Appeals to and the shaping of patriotism. A conservative flavor.
Took feelings and thinking already present and expanded them, preyed on them, pandered to them...integrated them as part and parcel to what it means to be an American. Even as other thoughts existed, America's brand of fascism took hold. Been at odds for a long time now.
Hate of others, sense of being superior...my kind our kind...everything else a threat.
Etc..
Sickening, really.
Atticus
(15,124 posts)co-wrote the song "All You Fascists Bound To Lose".
But, that was back when it wasn't considered bad form to call bullshit "bullshit".
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)CrispyQ
(36,470 posts)I believe that some of our journalists are censored, certain words & topics, not allowed by corporate.
Also, America is not unique in not seeing fascism at their doorstep. Interviews with Germans often revealed that they were surprised how quickly it happened. That said, i think there is a contingent of our population that is A-OK with fascism as long as the administration hurts the people it's supposed to hurt. But I think we also have a large group who are conditioned to believe that it can't happen here, & until it affects them or a loved one personally, they won't see it.
no_hypocrisy
(46,116 posts)beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)ananda
(28,862 posts)nt
BadgerMom
(2,771 posts)Baltimike
(4,145 posts)struggle4progress
(118,285 posts)Kablooie
(18,634 posts)And we've never experienced it ourselves as a country so we become blind to the truth.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)Trumpers may not "know fascism when they see it" dumb -- The rest of us do.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I have seen this coming for a long time. And now it's here.
sandensea
(21,636 posts)I don't doubt that there's at least 20 or 30% of our fellow Americans who would gladly see those they hate (minorities, artists, lib'ruls) be sent away in rail cars.
It may sound harsh; but there's really no denying it. Indeed, some will tell you that outright.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)People reject the term because they think Holocaust and Hitler. It shuts down any dialogue.
Fascism does also limit the discussion to the nazi leadership because the good Germans are not common knowledge.
If we have to get into a history lesson, we will fail to make the point because the conversation veers off into different directions.
There needs to be a more relatable way of talking about the damage in progress.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)how do we beat them? Especially with right-wing media coming at them 24/7...
PatrickforO
(14,576 posts)any information on socialism, communism, fascism, totalitarianism and all the other isms. Not to mention cults.
stopbush
(24,396 posts)tRump is a master of this.
Their feigned outrage - which is actually simple projection - serves to insulate them against criticism from their foes. This gives them the room to be fascists, because their opponents natural reaction is to look to reason and facts to combat them. Their opponents take a dont stoop to their level stance, which is exactly what the fascists depend on to advance their agenda.
winetourdriver01
(1,154 posts)People of today forget how much grief President Roosevelt got when he made speeches against Hitler's Germany. Fascists are a sizable chunk of the population of the USA.
doc03
(35,340 posts)KPN
(15,646 posts)Yavin4
(35,440 posts)If the Facist favors their group (i.e. White, Christian, heterosexual), then they don't care.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)You left out what I think are the defining characteristics of Fascism, which is an economy run by monopolistic capitalists, power maintained by military and militarized police, and suppression of opposition and dissent.
Many many people cannot recognize Fascism. Hell they don't even know what democratic socialism is. They don't read history or think for themselves. They justwatch Faux News.
TygrBright
(20,760 posts)lastlib
(23,238 posts)In their dim awareness of the history that is "taught" in schools, they believe that fascism was defeated, and thus, ceased to exist, in World War II. They are oblivious to the remnants of it that remained, and which have since risen again in the USA, and the rest of the world as well. They are only vaguely aware that fascism is *something that's bad*, and so we don't apply it to the president and his minions--When. It. Does. Apply.
How do we overcome it? I dunno. I only know we need to. RAPIDLY.
lastlib
(23,238 posts)It is WELL WORTH understanding what we are up against in America today.
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
Firestorm49
(4,035 posts)Weve been nice when there is no longer time to be nice. Time is running out and nobody seems to care. This is serious stuff.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)and that of Mussolini
SHRED
(28,136 posts)This country is filled with bigots and racists.
Grokenstein
(5,723 posts)Throughout the thread, comments suggest that people don't get it, that people support it, or that people get it but don't care because they think it won't affect them. I believe in the Combo Platter; generally they THINK they get it, they THINK they support it, and THINK they won't suffer its consequences...but only because they don't ACTUALLY understand it.
An entire generation has been raised under Limbaugh-style disdain for education and experience (and reality) in favor of "gut feelings" and "belief," and the endless assault by Republicans on public education standards. No civilized nation that gave a tinker's damn about its future would EVER have indulged "Teach the Controversy" nonsense for an instant, but we did.
Now the stupid is coming home to roost.
The stupid, it burns, but it doesn't just burn the stupid.
It burns everything else.
Down to the ground.
LuckyLib
(6,819 posts)appalachiablue
(41,138 posts)~ "All they need is one solidly ignorant generation and Fascism will win." - CD Comments Thread Winner