Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
28 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I've noticed my Chavista friends are surprisingly quiet about the 2 regiments Russia has sent to VZ (Original Post) Recursion Apr 2019 OP
Two regiments already? Brother Buzz Apr 2019 #1
You're forgetting your friendly neighborhood rent-a-mercs from the Wagner group Recursion Apr 2019 #3
The numbers there were tossing around sounds more like an anemic battalion... Brother Buzz Apr 2019 #5
Pair of regiments equals 1 short brigade Recursion Apr 2019 #6
The concept of a regiment alien to me Brother Buzz Apr 2019 #9
US regiments are theoretical paper structures Recursion Apr 2019 #25
It's not the personell that's the problem Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Apr 2019 #2
I love my one Chavista here at DU for the idealism. UTUSN Apr 2019 #4
I have feeling intermediate range missiles are soon on their way. roamer65 Apr 2019 #7
I'll be in Richmond this weekend. I'll put a flower on Monroe's grave. Recursion Apr 2019 #8
If it had been Amercan troops, they would have minded plenty. So would I. DFW Apr 2019 #10
I don't consider myself a Chavista although I liked some of his policies malaise Apr 2019 #12
Central American misery can indeed mostly be laid at US feet DFW Apr 2019 #13
There is no Russian hegemony in this hemisphere malaise Apr 2019 #14
So far, the Chinese have been out front in the exploitation DFW Apr 2019 #15
Sadly we're just the pawns malaise Apr 2019 #16
That goes for everywhere DFW Apr 2019 #17
That is true. It stops being true when the intermediate-range missiles show up Recursion Apr 2019 #22
Physician heal thyself malaise Apr 2019 #23
You want to see intervention? malaise Apr 2019 #11
We apparently keep a battalion in Belgium? Recursion Apr 2019 #24
I was always 'uncomfortable' when right wingers and mass media advocated for killing Mc Mike Apr 2019 #18
Nicely put malaise Apr 2019 #19
So much can be said. It isn't hard to have honest viewpoints that Mc Mike Apr 2019 #20
And, just to clarify, the last thing I want is for the US to send troops in Recursion Apr 2019 #21
I've been around a while, but never really know the who's who Mc Mike Apr 2019 #26
Been meaning to ask you malaise Apr 2019 #27
The alleged "exploding drone swarm" nobody got any footage of? Recursion Apr 2019 #28

Brother Buzz

(36,456 posts)
1. Two regiments already?
Fri Apr 12, 2019, 09:55 PM
Apr 2019

Last I heard was just two planes; one passenger, one freight.


Just so you know, I think things have bogged down in the White Hose after extensive efforts to explain the Monroe Doctrine to the orange anus failed miserably.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
3. You're forgetting your friendly neighborhood rent-a-mercs from the Wagner group
Fri Apr 12, 2019, 10:06 PM
Apr 2019
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/25/venezuela-maduro-russia-private-security-contractors

They speak Russian, they wear Russian Army uniforms, and they clear all orders with the Kremlin. But other than that, they're totally just normal soldiers for hire.

Brother Buzz

(36,456 posts)
5. The numbers there were tossing around sounds more like an anemic battalion...
Fri Apr 12, 2019, 10:14 PM
Apr 2019

then a pair of brigades.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
6. Pair of regiments equals 1 short brigade
Fri Apr 12, 2019, 10:18 PM
Apr 2019

Russia still uses the Napoleonic brigade system, for reasons I don't understand. Four battalions, at any rate.

Brother Buzz

(36,456 posts)
9. The concept of a regiment alien to me
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 01:55 AM
Apr 2019

There were no regiments in my chain of command during my years in the Mean Green Fighting Machine. I always thought it was a archaic term that was retired sometime after the First World War, but I see that it has be resurrected and is common use in today's Army command structure.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
25. US regiments are theoretical paper structures
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 08:39 AM
Apr 2019

Regiments only exist on paper as a way to run administration and supply. The "Fifth Marine Regiment" doesn't ever actually all get up and deploy somewhere together; they'll take a battalion from the 5th Marines and a battalion from the 1st Marines and form the "11th Marine Brigade" as part of an Expeditionary Unit.

UTUSN

(70,725 posts)
4. I love my one Chavista here at DU for the idealism.
Fri Apr 12, 2019, 10:10 PM
Apr 2019

I detest *ANY* blowhard jerk bully of the Right *OR* the Left.









roamer65

(36,747 posts)
7. I have feeling intermediate range missiles are soon on their way.
Fri Apr 12, 2019, 10:25 PM
Apr 2019

With nuclear warheads.

Remember Putin said he is not scared of another missile crisis.

DFW

(54,428 posts)
10. If it had been Amercan troops, they would have minded plenty. So would I.
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 06:00 AM
Apr 2019

But Russians aren't necessarily given all the facts, and they have even less say about what Putin does than we say about Trump does. Chavistas (or maybe now Maduristas?) have always thought that whatever kept the regime in power was the most just solution. If that now becomes Russian troops, so be it. Venezuela is still incredibly rich in natural resources. Putin probably figures, and probably correctly, that if the USA is too timid to jump into the current void and exploit them, well, he certainly is not. This is a first step.

malaise

(269,144 posts)
12. I don't consider myself a Chavista although I liked some of his policies
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 06:28 AM
Apr 2019

On the other hand I am 100% against US hegemony and its imperialist agenda in this hemisphere.
The mess in Central America is closely linked to US banana republic policy.

The US does not decide who is President of Venezuela.

DFW

(54,428 posts)
13. Central American misery can indeed mostly be laid at US feet
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 07:01 AM
Apr 2019

Both neo-colonial practices of 100 years ago and neglect after that.

However, replacing US hegemony with Russian hegemony will only make things worse. Putin would be only too happy to decide who is president of Venezuela, and would tell the rest of the world to butt out if it ever got to the point where he was given the chance to decide (Syria 2.0). I didn't like Chávez at all except when he mocked Bush Jr. at the UN. He made an nnecessary mess of what should have been South America's biggest success story.

malaise

(269,144 posts)
14. There is no Russian hegemony in this hemisphere
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 07:07 AM
Apr 2019

Far from it - a few Russian oligarchs bought out the US and Canadian bauxite plants.
Those of us outside of North America in this hemisphere rather like the idea of a balance of power. Russia appears to have more influence over the US President and ReTHUGs than in other parts of this hemisphere.

There are way more Chinese investments in this hemisphere

DFW

(54,428 posts)
15. So far, the Chinese have been out front in the exploitation
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 07:32 AM
Apr 2019

But Putin was KGB when they owned Cuba. He knows what an advantage that was strategically for the Soviet Union when they owned the place. I was in Cuba in those days, and they DID own the place. They acted like it, too, and the normal population disliked them plenty for it--just as much as the elite liked them for it. I had been invited by the government (Cuban, not Soviet), so I got plenty of their point of view. These days, a toehold in Venezuela makes far more sense to Russia than Cuba anyway. Inviting troops in for security is EXACTLY the pretext used for their invasion of Afghanistan in the late 1970s. Don't look for those "security troops'" numbers to decrease in the near future.

I agree that subtle Russian influence over Republicans in Washington is far more pervasive than many realize. They have been working on this since the Soviet era, but used to be wedded to the hard sell. Igor Ignatieff (TACC chief in DC for a while) even tried to recruit my dad. When my dad told him, politely, to fuck off, Igor said, OK, sorry, he was required to try. I knew Igor slightly from my occasional visits to his office in DC, and he was a perfectly nice guy to chat with. I remember he was surprised that as a college student in Philadelphia, that I knew that the KGB had its own armed border patrol force. I said, Igor, everybody in America knows that! But he knew what his job was, and did it unhesitatingly. The Russians have always had the less subtle form of political seduction. The Chinese smile and quietly throw money at those most susceptible to accepting it. The Russians just say, "let's fuck," and have only slowly come around to understanding that there are better ways to persuading people to work for them. In the era of Manafort and Rohrbacher, I'd say they are catching on fast.

DFW

(54,428 posts)
17. That goes for everywhere
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 07:57 AM
Apr 2019

In the 2017 German election, the logical coalition would have been Merkel-the Greens-the FDP. The FDP presents itself as a nebulous "liberal (literal sense, not Fox Noise sense)" business-friendly party. At the last minute, the FDP pulled out, saying there were irreconcilable differences with the Greens. My wife saw through it immediately. She said the FDP had sold out (literally) to fossil fuel energy interests, where the Greens were pushing for increased emphasis on renewables. Sure enough, the FDP party head has been making nice with the coal industry, pretending to be "worker-friendly" with the miners. Poor Merkel was forced back to a coalition with the SPD. But she refused to back down on dirty coal, and just recently a local old growth forest near me, slated for destruction for a new coal field, was saved permanently when the government said it was abandoning coal energy altogether. Maybe Lindner, the FDP boss, got a bunch of secret money from the fossil fuel interests, but his platform of protecting the worst of them fell flat.

Maybe that's the advantage of living in a small compact country located in a small, compact continent. You pollute the air and the water, and a highly educated electorate in not only your own area but three neighboring countries as well will raise hell about it.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
22. That is true. It stops being true when the intermediate-range missiles show up
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 08:34 AM
Apr 2019

What's the line from Kipling? "Once you have paid the Danegeld, you'll never get rid of the Dane". If Venezuela becomes Turkey (i.e., a convenient launch platform) Putin's not going to let it go.

Mc Mike

(9,114 posts)
18. I was always 'uncomfortable' when right wingers and mass media advocated for killing
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 08:05 AM
Apr 2019

or deposing Chavez. I see the multinational oil company profit angle to destabilizing Venezuela. Keep that marginally accessible oil off the market, and the seven sisters can rape us at the pump.

I never knew whether or not I'd want to live under Chavez or his successor, but I have no passport, so what difference does it make? A useless hypothetical academic exercise, in realpolitical terms.

I always knew I didn't want the US big money right wing to use our peoples' blood to overthrow a competitor to the big multinational oil companies.

I'm totally opposed to Putin, always have been. The same multinationals that gave us putin's puppet tRump want to attack Venezuela.

I don't want Putin or his puppet tRump in Venezuela, and they could both be there operating non adversarially at the same time. Like Syria.

Mc Mike

(9,114 posts)
20. So much can be said. It isn't hard to have honest viewpoints that
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 08:19 AM
Apr 2019

aren't an extreme strawman position. I don't dislike the o.p.er for their viewpoint, but having some counter opinions doesn't make me want Putin in Latin America.

I wish the gringo multinationalist monroe doctrine types would just piss off. Not the o.p.er, but the far righties in mass media.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
21. And, just to clarify, the last thing I want is for the US to send troops in
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 08:32 AM
Apr 2019

I was needling a specific person, and it wasn't you. My response to VZ right now consists of throwing my hands up in despair.

Mc Mike

(9,114 posts)
26. I've been around a while, but never really know the who's who
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 08:50 AM
Apr 2019

in terms of conflicting member issue advocacy.

I remember having a discussion about Libya, where the post ers had past history re advocacy of eliminating Ghadaffi, or opposition. And they were continuing an old argument, instead of discussing the fallout from the fact that he had been deposed. I never wanted to live under Ghadaffi, but opposed the feelings expressed by our mass media who favored eliminating him.

If our country decides a leader is 'beyond the pale', unlike our saudi buddies or duterte, then I favor helping their people and sanctioning the leader economically.

I did notice the Joe Kennedy - Citgo effort, and put it into context of the large number of mutant oil company intel nazi repugs who swirled around the murder of his uncle. Helped some Americans financially, and hurt standard oil.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
28. The alleged "exploding drone swarm" nobody got any footage of?
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 01:47 PM
Apr 2019

I'm still very curious about what actually happened there. I had associated it with that rogue helicopter pilot, if only because of when it happened.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»I've noticed my Chavista ...