We are going thru the process of a generational and cultural change.

[kentuck]

The controversy about whether or not Joe Biden inappropriately touched and kissed Lucy Flores is real. We believe Lucy Flores when she says that she felt her space was invaded and Joe Biden touching her shoulders and kissing her on the head made her uncomfortable. There is no doubt but that she is honest and sincere in her comments.

It was not always the case where a woman would speak up about such actions. Both men and women have changed since the 1950's and '60's. The culture was very different. Boys and men were "expected" to act differently from girls and women. Young boys were expected to always take the initiative when asking a young girl out for a date. They were expected to lead the way in showing their emotions, such as "stealing a kiss". Young girls would never be aggressive in these relationships. They were usually very passive and followed the lead of their boyfriends. Sex was awkward and puritanical in many instances.

But times have changed. Many older men from those times still have that culture ingrained in them. They do not realize the degree of change that has taken place. But that does not excuse inappropriate actions or behaviors.

At the same time, we should not confuse some of these unintentional actions and behaviors with sexual assault or physical harm to a woman. It is a process that we, as a nation are going thru, and must deal with. Women have not yet reached the point where they are ready to tell men to stop what they are doing or that they are not comfortable with his actions. However, that is changing.

We do not want to minimize these behaviors but we also, do not want to equate them with abuse or sexual assault. The Al Franken "incident" comes to mind. We are in a process of cultural change.

Also, we now have an openly gay man running for President of the United States and doing quite well. It was not always the case. In the '50's, 60's, and later, he would have feared for his physical well-being. He would have been "in the closet". The thought of running for President would have never entered his mind.

But, that also, is part of our cultural and generational change. Unfortunately, we do not get to the end of the journey in just one day. It is a process and we must learn and appreciate the value of our experiences.

[Stare Decisis]

1. Who is "We?"

You don't speak for me.

She seems to have selective shoulders, put it that way.



This is , a noun, a verb, and 9-11 Joe we are talking about.

Save the feely wussy claptrap. It won't win us squat.

[kentuck]

3. Sorry.

I did not mean to include you in the proverbial "we".

I thought this might be an important topic to discuss but I am a little surprised at the instant hostility.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

14. It sounds like you're saying if a woman lets one person touch her shoulders, she shouldn't

have an opinion about anyone touching her shoulders.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

2. Fair statement...BUT, next, we'll start hearin about the Bernie connection for the umpteenth time.

Tired of it yet? #MeToo


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[kentuck]

4. It is important not to minimize the #MeToo movement...

It is revolutionary, in my opinion.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

5. One would think kentuck... but, sadly, that's exactly what is happening!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[kentuck]

7. I hope not.

By the way, I think Bernie and Elizabeth are a strong pair to draw to.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

9. Yes... thanks!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Stare Decisis]

6. Then maybe Lucy should stop minimizing

it.

Look I have decided the method of "look how much better" we are is the fast track to fucking losertown. It isn't personal. It's business. Your whole tone is awesome, classy, and decent-if you were writing a concession speech. You fall back on your values, Good for you.

This is a must win. I do hope God saves my soul. But I am trying to to win an election. And I am sick of being Swift Boated.

#Notthistime

[kentuck]

8. Are you a Joe Biden supporter?

I respect your opinion.

[Stare Decisis]

13. I respect yours too.

I agree with most of it. But this is ridiculous-an entire weekend of Mueller debate was lost to this nonsense. This is how they win.

[femmedem]

10. I agree with much of what you said and am surprised at the hostile replies.

She has a right to feel what she felt. I disagree with her when she says that Biden "made her feel" uncomfortable. He didn't compel her to feel that way. Other women may not feel the same under the same circumstances. Nonetheless, she's entitled to not be touched when she doesn't want to be touched.

I also absolutely trust that Biden has never meant any harm, never realized anyone was feeling uncomfortable, and was only expressing nonsexual warmth or support. It's a tricky area to navigate, because we've all been the grateful recipients of hugs, and most of those times, I'd wager no one asked, "Is it ok if I hug you?" These days, people are more likely to ask, "Would you like a hug?" or "Would a hug help?" But as you say, that's part of our cultural change.

I don't think any of this was akin to "stealing a kiss," though--or that sex was puritanical or that women were passive. I'm not Joe's age--I'm in my late fifties--but Joe was a young man during the 1960's. Besides, I just don't think this was flirting on his part.

[Stare Decisis]

12. Agreed-then you do it in the moment

Not when our best chance to stop Trump's re-election is about to launch.

[Loki Liesmith]

11. She can feel however she wants

But I just don’t care. Not hostile. Just a fact. Her feelings mean exactly nothing to me.