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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBOTTOM LINE: This is a DISASTER for Donald J. Trump
BOTTOM LINE: This is a disaster for Donald J. TrumpGet your attention?
Consider this -
[link:https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/32419/|]
and have some guts, for god's sake.
Mueller, at least according to Barr, wrote that he CAN NOT "exonerate" Trump... so (as Matt Miller says) "congratulations to Individual 1 for only being the subject of one ongoing criminal investigation." that we know of... and now the whole scandal is firmly in the hands of a patriotic Congress, which will follow the leads wherever they go - unlike Barr's DOJ.
Don't forget, Nixon was reelected in '72 and gone in '74, so I don't see this as a win for the Trump Administration.
Mueller punted to Barr, and Barr punted to Congress. Neither one was a profile in courage, obviously; the only patriots in all this are the Democrats in Congress, and given the insight into how Trump does business, they have plenty to go after.
Bottom line, Trump hired a national security adviser, campaign chair, deputy campaign chair, personal attorney/national party finance co-chair, (all CONVICTS) and a dozen other losers who have consistently proven themselves untrustworthy for the positions they were given - and the GOP as an institution and organization have accepted that bottom line, which indicts them as just as badly. NO REPUBLICAN who continues to support Trump can be trusted on national security issues, obviously.
It comes down to the reality that Trump is surrounded by crooks that he hired... "I'm not a crook" didn't work for Nixon; I don't see that as really a winning slogan for Trump.
Using Nixon as the template, it's worth remembering Nixon won re-election in '72, despite multiple scandals and the debacle in SE Asia; and yet he didn't finish a second term.
Keep the faith, keep up the fire, and enough with the defeatism.
Cripes, if some of today's posters had been around in 1775, 1861, or 1941, one can only imagine the impact.
The United States has survived, and thrived, in the face of much tougher enemies than DJT and the GOP; start acting like it.
MFM008
(19,818 posts)no collusion.
Thats all he needs to do for his oatmeal brained trump humpers.
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)What do you think Nixon said, repeatedly, throughout all of '73-74?
Do you think he hid out at San Clemente every weekend, like the cowardly fat man does at Merde-a-lago?
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)I'll tell you what, I sure wish it was 2009, last time I was in San Clemente w/my ex-wife, in a house on the damn beach ...
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Ever hear of John Mitchell?
He was Nixon's ATTORNEY GENERAL. Spent 19 months in federal prison.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)Yes, I'm familiar with the man and the charges.
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)And according to Barr, Mueller found his investigation can not "exonerate" Trump. as in: "...while this report does not conclude that the President did not commit a crime, it also does not exonerate him."
So your original statement regarding the special counsel's findings, at least as relayed by Barr, is incorrect.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)It's in no way required that Trump is 'exonerated'.
Nobody in a court of law is 'exonerated'. They are 'found not guilty beyond reasonable doubt'.
I understand clinging to the phrase 'not exonerated' at a time like now, but I'm not sure it really matters in the overall scheme.
ESPECIALLY since 'the crime' you're referring to is 'obstruction of justice'. If there's no underlying crime to begin with (conspiracy, which Barr's version at least says they didn't find evidence of) to 'obstruct justice' with, how powerful of an argument for criminal activity do you really think 'couldn't exonerate' ... really constitutes?
I'm pretty sure the answer to that is ... it's weak as hell.
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)You're the one who brought it up in the original post, as in "Was he basically exonerated by a Special Counsel?"
In which case, the answer is "no," because even according to Barr's (potentially suspect) summary, the SCO did not, in fact, "exonerate" anyone.
Can't have it both ways.
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)down. He couldn't get him on this ...but we'll get him.
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)It's not even a short-term win...
Every paragraph from the SCO report that slips out will open the doors to a dozen different lines of inquiry.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Ever hear of the Pentagon Papers?
This kind of material can NEVER be buried.
malaise
(269,157 posts)RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Thanks ... I'm trying.
I'm willing to bet this is Trump's last good day.
bluestarone
(17,018 posts)WE shall see!
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Let your senators and representatives know you feel that way.
Volaris
(10,274 posts)It will need to be subponeaed(sp).
shockey80
(4,379 posts)RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)And the difference between 2019 and 1973 in terms of electronic data records is, literally, astronomical.
lostnfound
(16,189 posts)There are major differences in the amount of corruption the American people is willing to tolerate.
The innocence is gone.
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Assuming facts not in evidence, counselor.
lostnfound
(16,189 posts)RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)You mentioned the Senate, the House, and "Americans" - which ones are corruption tolerant, in your view, and upon what is that opinion based?
Given 40 new Democrats elected to the House in 2018, one would suspect the tolerance level for corruption is fairly low, but I'll wait for your evidence.
lostnfound
(16,189 posts)kurtcagle
(1,604 posts)that Trump has created a backtrail of tweets that go back almost three years. Trump has very likely perjured himself repeatedly in the most public way imaginable.
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Good point... as it stands at the moment, Pelosi, Schumer, Nadler, and Feinstein have all come out and said, essentially, the Congressional investigators will ramp up their work, including subpeaoning Barr, Mueller, et al and requiring public testimony under oath.
Not exactly quivering in the corner, are they?
Volaris
(10,274 posts)Yes this
Thank you.
I ain't scared. Donald Trump IS GONNA die in prison. By one means, or another.
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Damn straight...
Keep the faith, and keep up the fire.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)So, your example to suggest this is a disaster for Trump, and not Democrats, is that Nixon was reelected and wasn't able to finish his second term?
Wow. That makes me feel better! We've got only another three more years of this bullshit to worry about and then maybe he can be forced to resign! Woohoo!
If Trump wins reelection like Nixon did in '72, we are fucked.
Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #23)
Post removed
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)Spare me the divisiveness. I've been around DU far too long to buy any type of hype. The same people who kept telling me to wait for the Mueller report at the same people telling me the truth will come out ... and who also happen to be the same people who told me, adamantly in 2016, that Trump had no chance of winning.
Yet here we are.
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)So what are you going to do about it, Mick?
Vote? Donate? Volunteer? Canvas? Run for office?
Or be a defeatist on a forum?
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)Done hoping the GOP will grow a spine.
Done hoping voters would see through Trump's campaign rhetoric.
Done hoping the GOP would be a wall.
Done hoping Mueller would deliver the good.
I am done hoping. I'll fight and vote and donate but I'm done getting my hopes up.
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Perhaps you'd benefit from some more liquid courage, Mick...
Response to RHMerriman (Reply #37)
Post removed
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Nothing wrong with liquid courage if that's all you've got... speaking from personal experience.
I'll leave it to Mick if he saw it as rude.
NotHardly
(1,062 posts)RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Who the hell said we're "hoping"?
All I've said is to consider how little information there actually is that's public at this point from the SCO report, don't give into defeatism, and fight like hell.
sheshe2
(83,855 posts)There is no need for this on a Democratic board.
How can anyone think thats ok?
SMH.
George II
(67,782 posts)Stuart G
(38,439 posts)RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Keep the faith.
Stuart G
(38,439 posts)In my opinion, this is not over, it is just moving to another theater for some more acts..I remember seeing the first Star Wars. (1977.then the second, and after the 2nd, it left us hanging..more..I said on the way out, I guess we got to see another) This feels the same. It is not over..It may look that way. There appears to be more acts coming. But, I could be totally wrong, ? Hopefully we will all find out..
Also..........:
I also watched Watergate very closely. It took a lot of time..but they did get Nixon..Why? He is/was a crook
........................................This will also take a lot of time..but they will get Trump. Why? He is a crook
Repeat...............................Trump is a crook.too[.(and we all know it)
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Indeed ... historical perspective is a beautiful thing.
Keep the faith, and keep up the fire.
dem4decades
(11,301 posts)RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)A, Mueller has not said Trump is "innocent"... he hasn't said anything publicly, honestly;
B, Barr has offered a summary of Mueller's findings, which remains to be evaluated as being accurate or not;
C, Jaworski was the second special counsel appointed.
All in all, I'd suggest not jumping to conclusions based on first impressions of a report that has not been made public.
dem4decades
(11,301 posts)Bobby Three Sticks just have Trump a green light to declare his innocence. And Trump will beat that drum hard, long and often.
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Based on what, exactly? Barr's 4-page press release?
Perspective is a glorious thing, friend.
dem4decades
(11,301 posts)RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Have you ever been persuaded of anything by Trump?
Stuart G
(38,439 posts)Now maybe the State of New York will prosecute for crimes there...Or there is more..
.... We will all see. I do not think this is over.
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)It is most definitely not "over"...
Which has been my point during today's alarums and excursions.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Screw getting dragged down by people with unrealistic expectations! This isnt over by a long shot!
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Damn right ... and thanks.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Defeatism did not make this country. Pretty easy to see those on du who probably would have stayed home cowering when Paul Revere made his famous ride.
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Acknowledging they were men of their times, the Signers truly were writing their own death warrants...
Today, there are far too many Americans who would have hung back and waited. Summer soldiers and sunshine patriots, indeed.
Keep the faith, and keep up the fire
treestar
(82,383 posts)Nailed it.
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Stand up, dust yourself off, and line up. Here they come again...
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)It is time for strength, not surrender.
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Keep in mind, as always, the Republicans NEED the Democrats to clean up the mess they (the GOP) has created, in order to prevent the GOP from splintering into a mostly southern-Great Plains white supremacist "white hood" party and a Wall Street-aligned "white collar" party...
Same as it ever was, truthfully, at least since Nixon.
This will go down the same path, with just enough Republicans in the end, to replace Pence with someone like Nikki Haley and then ease Trump out ...
And Pelosi and Schumer have been around long enough that they understand this pattern.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Experience is a great teacher
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it...
those who never study are continually surprised by it.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Stole the first part from Georges Santayana, of course.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)I already knew about the first part.
cutroot
(876 posts)It turned the tide and eventually brought down the nixon regime. We are going to need many more janitors to clean up this one.
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Frankly, the Republicans missed their chance to use Mueller to turn this into a "compromise" along the lines of Agnew-Ford-Nixon.
Now it comes down to Patriots vs. Trumpists.
BamaRefugee
(3,487 posts)Not sure I get it, unless you meant "now the whole scandal is firmly in the hands of a patriotic House of Representatives"
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)..."the only patriots in all this are the Democrats in Congress"... as in the original OP.
The GOP lost their chance to use the Mueller probe to forge some sort of "compromise/bargain" along the lines of Nixon-Ford. With a (small) number of honorable exceptions, the Republicans - certainly at the level of Barr and McConnell have made their bed and climbed in for the last time.
Today was Trump last "good" day in a lot of ways, and anyone on the right side of the aisle not laboring under Trump's personal intellectual and moral handicaps can see it.
DirtEdonE
(1,220 posts)Really, I wish us all good luck. We'll all need it.
I'd say it was great while it lasted but in reality this country has always been full of shit, which makes this quite a fitting ending, trump I mean, the most full of shit person possibly ever to exist, flushing it all down the toilet.
I don't know if people are in a state of shock or what but the gravity of what mueller did and what barr is making of it will hit in a few days and I don't think it will be very pretty. It'll be like the days after we learned trump stole the election.
Oh. My. God. They really did it this time.
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Your understanding of " the gravity of what Mueller did" is based on what, exactly?
Barr's four page press release?
Christ, I'm glad you were never on any of my juries.
DirtEdonE
(1,220 posts)RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Very deep and well-reasoned case you made there, counselor.
DirtEdonE
(1,220 posts)zentrum
(9,865 posts)...Repug party in those days. More old school, had some interest in rule of law. And we didn't have the Fox State propaganda channel.
Nixon didn't head up a cult, was not a cult figure and did not exercise cultic power over his rabid base. No matter that the base is small---the Repug leaders seem terrified of them and follow Trump in lock-step.
None of that was in place in Nixon's day.
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Different Democratic Party, as well...
Is Nixon a perfect template? No, but it's as close as we get in recent history. Perspective is a valuable thing.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)...I'm not too clear on what you mean.
I think the Democratic Party was more agressive in those days---another aspect that gives me less confidence about how this Trump monstrousness will play out.
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Two-way street, Mr. Vonnegut.
thegoose
(3,115 posts)The Russia probe is a smokescreen. He's a career mobster and he'll be nicked on other charges. Tax evasion, money laundering...the list goes on and on.
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Indeed he is...
There's a reason Al Capone went to prison for tax evasion and not multiple murder, of course.
It's easier to prove.
thegoose
(3,115 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)...a few points on the positive side,too:
But first, Mueller didn't punt to Barr, he had to report to Barr, no one else. However, Barr did "punt" to Congress, and Congress (Pelosi/Schumer), to keep the football analogy going, called for a fair catch. Now it's first and ten for Democrats and we're not pinned back near our end zone (enough of the football!!!!).
Now it's the job of Democrats in the House to keep this thing going, and from the looks of it they're almost relishing this. No doubt before long the full report will come out, with the supporting documentation. That is going to be bad - we've already seen some republicans in both houses turning on trump, it will get worse.
What we have going in our favor is that the Watergate break-in, the start of Nixon's downfall, was during the election campaign in 1972.
Yes, he got re-elected, but none of the REAL damaging information had come out yet before the election, and as much as I like McGovern, he wasn't a strong campaigner. Then a little over two years late Nixon was gone.
Now, almost two years before the next election, we already know a LOT of the damaging information, a half dozen of trump's campaign people have been convicted or pleaded guilty. We're WAY ahead of the game when comparing this to the Nixon situation.
Another thing, people are just now realizing what's going on with their income taxes, millions of every day Americans are paying much more than they did before their "tax cut". Despite the economy, factories are still closing, too. And we just came off a huge win in teh House elections, minor win in the Senate, but the republicans have almost three times as many Senators up for election than they did last year.
Despite some getting hurt (higher real taxes, loss of jobs, etc.) we're in a really good position:
Continued trump scandals
Electorate unhappy with republicans
Momentum in our favor
If we don't screw it up by allowing ourselves to bicker with each other for the next year and a half, this could be almost as good an election as we had in 1964.
Freethinker65
(10,034 posts)Is nothing to gloat about.
Trump, the GOP, and the WH on on record being happy to be effectively duped by Russia's obvious help.
They can no longer deny it happened. They must admit they were happy about the deliberate misinformation and meddling that Russia provided for their win.
Questions to be asked....will they be happy if it happens again? What if the next foreign government decides to help the other side??