Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

hlthe2b

(102,343 posts)
Sat Mar 23, 2019, 08:49 PM Mar 2019

Mueller's Final Move: (on why no charges YET for Don Jr and others)...




Now let’s examine why his office brought no conspiracy charges.

Workin’ backwards, bringin’ conspiracy charges wouldn’t be “frugal.” If Mueller took on the task of prosecutin’ Don Jr, Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort for the now-famous Trump Tower meetin’, it would require extendin’ his charter for at least two more years, for such a case would be fought all the way to the Supreme Court and back. This would greatly extend the cost of his mission and add fuel to fire for his critics. The Special Counsel is designed more as an investigative collaboration, rather than a prosecutorial one. So the idea of recreatin’ an entire team to do the work done every day by any of our federal districts wouldn’t be “expedient.”

“Proper” plays a vital role. Since Mueller plays by the book, his primary directive would be for a case to be tried where the venue is “proper.” Ask yourself the simple question, “Where did the bulk of the alleged Trump-Russia conspiracy take place?” and you have your answer: “New York City.” It would be silly for Mueller to prosecute Trump, Kush and the rest of Team Treason in D.C. when the crime took place in New York, right?

Simply put, this is “smart!” If Mueller prosecuted Diaper Donnie, Trump could pull the plug on Mueller’s charter and we’d litigate it in the courts until doomsday just to get the case back on track. But placin’ the venue in the purview of the Sovereign District of New York is a stroke of genius, safely away from Trump’s pryin’ baby hands. It’s frugal because SDNY is budgeted for just such actions. It’s expedient because SDNY is fully staffed and ready to roll. The venue is proper and, dang it, it’s just plain smart.

So… don’t be surprised if Monday mornin’ or one day real soon the SDNY drops the hammer on Little Donnie, Kush, Manafort, et, al. This would be the perfect setup for Individual-1 to be revealed in Mueller’s report as an unindicted co-conspirator in the Trump-Russia conspiracy.
42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Mueller's Final Move: (on why no charges YET for Don Jr and others)... (Original Post) hlthe2b Mar 2019 OP
This does make sense! bluestarone Mar 2019 #1
Found some Audrey Straus vs Cohn background info OhNo-Really Mar 2019 #27
Robert Mueller also prosecuted Gotti of the Gambino family OhNo-Really Mar 2019 #28
Would love for this to be correct, and it makes sense. But, that means that "no further indictments" Hoyt Mar 2019 #2
the actual verbiage was "The Special Counsel is not recommending any further indictments" hlthe2b Mar 2019 #4
maybe connotes ".....other than the dozens already delegated elsewhere under seal..." OhNo-Really Mar 2019 #29
I think SDNY is waiting for the report to be released and presented to the public jaysunb Mar 2019 #3
Agree, don't want another ManaFART moment when they released hours after sentencing. SayItLoud Mar 2019 #11
Seriously informative. Read this and block out the media news"commentary" Guilded Lilly Mar 2019 #5
What happened to trump's plant in SDNY? WhiteTara Mar 2019 #6
The Trump-appointed US Attorney Geoffrey Berman recused himself hlthe2b Mar 2019 #7
I'm shocked he's remained recused. thanks! WhiteTara Mar 2019 #10
From the Atlantic just now.... albacore Mar 2019 #8
So how would they word this in the report? Would they say they are passing the case off to NY? Quixote1818 Mar 2019 #9
Can Trump fire people in the SDNY? Mr.Bill Mar 2019 #12
Trump can fire the US Attorney in SDNY, but not the staff attorneys without cause. euphorb Mar 2019 #13
Thanks. n/t Mr.Bill Mar 2019 #14
Who the f@#K is this TeaPain? DontBooVote Mar 2019 #15
He's a very smart lawyer who pretends to be a redneck hick FakeNoose Mar 2019 #41
Fantasy. former9thward Mar 2019 #16
I suspect if there is any indictment on Trump or his family that Mueller sealed it cstanleytech Mar 2019 #17
There are no sealed indictments garybeck Mar 2019 #19
That we know of as it kind of would defeat some of the reason for the seal if it was to cstanleytech Mar 2019 #21
Personally I think it is wishful thinking garybeck Mar 2019 #22
Leaving it unanswered could very well be interpreted by other parties that there were such sealed cstanleytech Mar 2019 #23
Cautiously optimistic. Makes sense but things never go that well for our side. Pepsidog Mar 2019 #18
The chessboard is set Blue Owl Mar 2019 #20
I just want it over ... and tRump gone from the WH KPN Mar 2019 #24
Unfortunately... SergeStorms Mar 2019 #34
You'll be "elated when ... courts take Stump down monetarily". I'll be surprised. KPN Mar 2019 #36
The only sure thing is to vote Trump out of office. Much of this is jusst pure speculation. olegramps Mar 2019 #37
And even that -- voting tRump and Rs out of office -- isn't a sure thing. But it's the only thing KPN Mar 2019 #38
It makes sense. Think RICO JAD Mar 2019 #25
You are giving me hope. Thank you JAD. Oppaloopa Mar 2019 #26
Just think who SDNY just hired. JAD Mar 2019 #30
What video are you talking about? dmr Mar 2019 #33
Damn ..... WestCoastDem42 Mar 2019 #31
Good premise. Too bad more of this didn't come out prior to the release of the report. Firestorm49 Mar 2019 #32
She was actually hired back on February 5. onenote Mar 2019 #35
Jesus... The delusion runs deep among some on the left. Stand and Fight Mar 2019 #39
The last sentence of this post says it all: Stuart G Mar 2019 #40
I saw Preet Bahara on MSNBC saying SDNY determined that a sitting R B Garr Mar 2019 #42

OhNo-Really

(3,985 posts)
27. Found some Audrey Straus vs Cohn background info
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 10:37 AM
Mar 2019

Lawyer Who Bested Roy Cohn Tapped for Big Gig in SDNY


https://www.courthousenews.com/lawyer-who-bested-roy-cohn-tapped-for-big-gig-in-sdny/

Even with Cohn in their corner, however, Joseph Gambino, the cousin of “boss of all bosses” Carlo Bambino, and his right-hand man Carlo Conti, failed to secure a reversal from the Second Circuit.

“These findings of the experienced trial judge cannot lightly be set aside,” a unanimous three-judge panel ruled in 1977. “Nor do we see any reason for so doing.”

The case was an early success for rookie prosecutor Audrey Strauss, a graduate of Columbia Law School who edited appellate briefs in her new job at the Southern District of New York.

Strauss would go on to field more than 20 other cases before she was promoted in 1983 to the chief of appeals in the Criminal Division and chief of the Securities and Commodities Fraud Unit.

On Friday, Strauss returned to the Southern District to serve as second-in-command to U.S. Attorney George Berman, succeeding the prosecutor who secured the conviction of disgraced former Trump “fixer” Michael Cohen.

OhNo-Really

(3,985 posts)
28. Robert Mueller also prosecuted Gotti of the Gambino family
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 10:42 AM
Mar 2019

From Wikipedia

In 1990 he became the United States Assistant Attorney General in charge of the United States Department of Justice Criminal Division.[20] During his tenure, he oversaw prosecutions including that of Panamanian leader Manuel Noriega, the Pan Am Flight 103 (Lockerbie bombing) case, and of the Gambino crime family boss John Gotti.[32]

Maybe we Little Brains are deemed incapable of grasping the scope of Robert Mueller Et Al's Board Game.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
2. Would love for this to be correct, and it makes sense. But, that means that "no further indictments"
Sat Mar 23, 2019, 08:59 PM
Mar 2019

from DOJ, is not correct (which is fine by me).

hlthe2b

(102,343 posts)
4. the actual verbiage was "The Special Counsel is not recommending any further indictments"
Sat Mar 23, 2019, 09:03 PM
Mar 2019

--not to mention that "from DOJ" in this context would have referred to "Special Counsel" or at least "MAIN JUSTICE", thus not at all excluding SDNY from indicting.

jaysunb

(11,856 posts)
3. I think SDNY is waiting for the report to be released and presented to the public
Sat Mar 23, 2019, 09:01 PM
Mar 2019

then drop the hammer.

albacore

(2,405 posts)
8. From the Atlantic just now....
Sat Mar 23, 2019, 10:12 PM
Mar 2019

Here’s a list of all the ongoing government investigations that could spell legal trouble for trump, regardless of whether he’s President, and the people and entities associated with him.

"Federal Jurisdictions
Many of the investigations that Mueller’s team prosecuted or referred to other prosecutors ended up in federal attorneys’ offices in the Washington, D.C., area. Even though the special counsel’s probe is over, some of the investigations remain ongoing. Here’s what’s left, as far as we know:

The United States Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York
At least three investigations in this district have not yet concluded. Prosecutors are reportedly looking into the financial dealings of Trump’s inauguration committee, which took in a record $107 million for the festivities surrounding his inauguration, in January 2017. In February, prosecutors subpoenaed a wide range of documents from the inauguration committee, and investigators seem particularly interested in whether it took money from donors connected to Middle Eastern governments.

Prosecutors in the Southern District of New York are also reportedly looking into whether Manafort, as chairman of Trump’s campaign, illegally coordinated with a pro-Trump super PAC, Rebuilding America Now, and whether that super PAC also received donations from people connected to Qatar and other Middle Eastern countries. These investigations have not yet led to any indictments or charges."

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/03/after-mueller-ongoing-investigations-trump/585376/

Quixote1818

(28,960 posts)
9. So how would they word this in the report? Would they say they are passing the case off to NY?
Sat Mar 23, 2019, 10:14 PM
Mar 2019

Would it day nothing at all?

euphorb

(279 posts)
13. Trump can fire the US Attorney in SDNY, but not the staff attorneys without cause.
Sat Mar 23, 2019, 10:42 PM
Mar 2019

That's because the US Attorney (Geoffrey Berman), because he is a presidential appointee, but he is recused from these cases. The staff prosecutors -- all the other attorneys in that office -- are civil service hires and can be fired only for cause.

FakeNoose

(32,723 posts)
41. He's a very smart lawyer who pretends to be a redneck hick
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 07:59 PM
Mar 2019

Also he's a true-blue Dem who masquerades as a "former" Tea Partier.


former9thward

(32,068 posts)
16. Fantasy.
Sat Mar 23, 2019, 10:57 PM
Mar 2019

But it will keep the CTers going until after the 2020 election. Then if a Democrat wins they will keep going for another 4 years claiming the DOJ is about to indict.

cstanleytech

(26,317 posts)
17. I suspect if there is any indictment on Trump or his family that Mueller sealed it
Sat Mar 23, 2019, 10:58 PM
Mar 2019

to make it difficult for Trump to abuse his pardon powers.

cstanleytech

(26,317 posts)
21. That we know of as it kind of would defeat some of the reason for the seal if it was to
Sat Mar 23, 2019, 11:43 PM
Mar 2019

be revealed openly as it could give someone time to prepare.

garybeck

(9,942 posts)
22. Personally I think it is wishful thinking
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 09:59 AM
Mar 2019

At this point to think there are sealed indictments. The reporting says there are none. If there were some they could just leave it unanswered and not say anything

cstanleytech

(26,317 posts)
23. Leaving it unanswered could very well be interpreted by other parties that there were such sealed
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 10:07 AM
Mar 2019

documents so it again would kind of defeat the whole purpose of sealing them in the first place.
Now I grant you that does not mean such a thing exists and more likely Mueller already referred anything to other parties for further investigation which should concern Trump more especially if its some of the other states.
After all he can only protect his family and himself via a pardon from federal crimes he cannot do shit about state level ones.

KPN

(15,649 posts)
24. I just want it over ... and tRump gone from the WH
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 10:18 AM
Mar 2019

and our country back to or a reasonabl facsimile of normal.

SergeStorms

(19,204 posts)
34. Unfortunately...
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 12:46 PM
Mar 2019

that's going to be up to US in the 2020 elections. We all wanted Mueller to start the process of Stump removal, but that's not going to happen. What Mueller has started is Stump grinding. He's seeded other courts, in other jurisdictions, with enough evidence to bring Stump down 10X over, but that's going to happen at a slower pace that we would have liked.

I'll be satisfied if the American people remove this stain on our country's history in 2020. Then I'll be elated when these other courts take Stump down monetarily and perhaps deny him - and his grifting family - their freedom a little farther down the road after he's out of office. Then we'll have a Democratic president in office who will not pardon these venal assholes. Ever.

KPN

(15,649 posts)
36. You'll be "elated when ... courts take Stump down monetarily". I'll be surprised.
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 01:04 PM
Mar 2019

But yeah, we have to win 2020 regardless.

olegramps

(8,200 posts)
37. The only sure thing is to vote Trump out of office. Much of this is jusst pure speculation.
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 01:14 PM
Mar 2019

Vote the Republicans out of every office in the land. The local and state elections are just, if not more important, then the Federal one. Just consider what they can do in regard to Gerrymandering and vote restriction along with their war on abortions. Just consider the influence of the Christian rightwing fanatics and their affect on local issues. The way to winning is to deny the extreme right wing crackpots their representation by replacing them with Democrats.

KPN

(15,649 posts)
38. And even that -- voting tRump and Rs out of office -- isn't a sure thing. But it's the only thing
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 01:18 PM
Mar 2019

we have any real influence on -- our own individual votes and our own effort to vote. Other than that, we can't trust anything, including the vote count.

It's not a pretty picture.

JAD

(187 posts)
25. It makes sense. Think RICO
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 10:22 AM
Mar 2019

Nancy Pelosi went to Europe a couple of weeks ago and met with Angela Merkel. I am sure she picked up the paper trail tying drumpf to Russia. This investigation has tentacles in many European countries and is very complex. The trump organization is a large International Crime Organization.

JAD

(187 posts)
30. Just think who SDNY just hired.
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 10:57 AM
Mar 2019

Audrey Strauss. Look at her background.
Nancy Pelosi didn't make a big production out of going to meet Merkel. I don't think I saw anything regarding Nancy's trip to Europe on Democratic Underground but I believe Nancy already has the info Barr may try to hide.
I would bet my family farm that NATO countries do not want to hand any sensitive info off to any US intelligence agencies with trump appointees as the head. They don't want this info shared with Russia, Saudi Arabia, or North Korea or accidentally lost.
Does anyone have the link to the video on youtube from the Dutch journalist regarding the criminal trump org. and russia? I will have to try and find that video.

dmr

(28,349 posts)
33. What video are you talking about?
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 12:18 PM
Mar 2019

If you find it, I'd appreciate a heads up. I'd like to see it. Thanks

I agree with you regarding the NATO countries.

Firestorm49

(4,036 posts)
32. Good premise. Too bad more of this didn't come out prior to the release of the report.
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 12:01 PM
Mar 2019

It’s all a game of Chess.

Stand and Fight

(7,480 posts)
39. Jesus... The delusion runs deep among some on the left.
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 04:23 PM
Mar 2019

This is fucking Fitzmas expectations all over again. People are honestly surprised that the guy who set by while the Bush II administration committed tons of domestic crimes and is a life-long republican didn't find anything?! They're surprised that Trump's "justice" department found no evidence of a crime?! Color me not surprised. If Republicans excel at nothing, it's closing ranks.

Stuart G

(38,439 posts)
40. The last sentence of this post says it all:
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 06:44 PM
Mar 2019
So… don’t be surprised if Monday mornin’ or one day real soon the SDNY drops the hammer on Little Donnie, Kush, Manafort, et, al. This would be the perfect setup for Individual-1 to be revealed in Mueller’s report as an unindicted co-conspirator in the Trump-Russia conspiracy.

Please read post 27, second one down after original post. ...About Audrey Straus....

In my opinion, this is not over, it is just moving to another theater for some more acts..I remember seeing the first Star Wars. (1977.then the second, and after the 2nd, it left us hanging..more..I said on the way out, I guess we got to see another) This feels the same. It is not over..It may look that way. There appears to be more coming. But, I could be totally wrong, ? Hopefully we will all find out..

I also watched Watergate very closely. It took a lot of time..but it did get Nixon..Why? He is/was a crook
........................................This will also take a lot of time..but they will get Trump. Why? He is a crook too.

R B Garr

(16,973 posts)
42. I saw Preet Bahara on MSNBC saying SDNY determined that a sitting
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 08:05 PM
Mar 2019

President could be indicted. He was kind of smiling. Mueller apparently was reluctant to indict a sitting president.

It’s not over yet.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Mueller's Final Move: (on...