Are we going the way of Rome?

[triron]

[Aristus]

1. I think so.

1. An increased desire for, and acceptance of, autocracy.

2. Wild, runaway military spending, eclipsing anything else in the way of social and physical infrastructure development and maintenance.

3. A preference for mediocrity and expediency, which are cheaper than the pursuit of excellence.

4. Staggering economic inequality.

5. Overdependence upon slave-labor. (Minimum wage work, and ultra low-wge work done by undocumented immigrants, surely count as slave labor.)

6. The ignoring of, or blatant overthrow of, long-standing political traditions designed to protect the rights of the citizens.

7. Military leaders increasing looking for personal aggrandizement over noble service to the country.

Did I miss anything?

[Maru Kitteh]

5. Declining value placed on education.

Ever-increasing government corruption.

The introduction and quickly wide-spread adaptation of a new, fanatical cult.

[True Dough]

8. The obesity epidemic

I'm sure you see the effects of that daily via your workplace.

[GWC58]

29. I see it daily in the

White House, specifically the Oval Office! 🤔

[DetlefK]

27. Economically, the roman victory in the 2nd Punic War was a disaster.

The Roman Empire annexed Iberia from the Carthage Empire. But Iberia was an agricultural province, producing massive amounts of wheat and other grains.

The cheap wheat dropped the prices so far that many roman farmers went bankrupt and that is how a permanent economic under-class was born: the Proletariat.

[babydollhead]

34. Lead in the water. n/t

[SuperCoolPoster]

39. it all comes down to human nature

Self-interest and going around the norms is a big one. This is an article looking at the ancient sources on this and what the ancient historians wrote about the fall of the Roman Republic:

https://gainweightjournal.com/11-lessons-from-the-fall-of-the-republic-it-is-disturbing-how-relevant-they-are-for-today/

Reading that, you are like deja-vu...

[nini]

2. Yes

It was great while it lasted.

[CentralMass]

3. Well there was that Empereror named Caligula who was known for

his cruelty, sadism, extravagance, and sexual perversion, who was considered to be an insane tyrant.

[smirkymonkey]

20. Did he have orange skin and piss-colored, cotton-candy hair?

Yep, I think I know which one you are talking about.

[Clash City Rocker]

31. And his horse was probably smarter than Mike Pence

[berni_mccoy]

4. Not just the US... the world turns a blind eye to climate change

That will ultimately end civilization.

[Flaleftist]

10. Too many can't see past the next quarterly statement.

[jalan48]

6. A weak and corrupt Senate (and House in our case) ready to accept dictatorial rule

as long as they can maintain their power and privilege.

[kskiska]

7. I believe so.

It might be sooner than we expect.

[dalton99a]

9. The rich didn't want to pay taxes:

https://www.history.com/news/8-reasons-why-rome-fell

2. Economic troubles and overreliance on slave labor

Even as Rome was under attack from outside forces, it was also crumbling from within thanks to a severe financial crisis. Constant wars and overspending had significantly lightened imperial coffers, and oppressive taxation and inflation had widened the gap between rich and poor. In the hope of avoiding the taxman, many members of the wealthy classes had even fled to the countryside and set up independent fiefdoms. At the same time, the empire was rocked by a labor deficit. Rome’s economy depended on slaves to till its fields and work as craftsmen, and its military might had traditionally provided a fresh influx of conquered peoples to put to work. But when expansion ground to a halt in the second century, Rome’s supply of slaves and other war treasures began to dry up. A further blow came in the fifth century, when the Vandals claimed North Africa and began disrupting the empire’s trade by prowling the Mediterranean as pirates. With its economy faltering and its commercial and agricultural production in decline, the Empire began to lose its grip on Europe.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

11. I believe that the combination of unfettered military spending

and reducing taxes on the rich are the two things that will eventually bring this country down.

[arthritisR_US]

12. Who would be Niro?

[First Speaker]

15. Robert

[arthritisR_US]

21. I disagree, Niro was a total scumbag.

[JHB]

25. What do you have against Niro?...

As opposed to, say, Nero, the guy who was Roman emperor from 54-68 AD.

[cilla4progress]

13. Absofucking

lutely.

May as well fiddle!

[trev]

14. As I mentioned in a thread on 7 March

Plato held that democracy inevitably leads to tyranny.

[Golden Raisin]

16. Faster than a speeding chariot in the Hippodrome.

And every day the wheels of that chariot get more dangerously wobbly.

[meadowlander]

17. It won't be a 500 year decline.

But yes. 1999 was peak America in term of economic and geopolitical strength. 1968 was our cultural high water mark.

[Clash City Rocker]

32. We'll have yuge decline! The best decline! People are saying so!

[Xolodno]

18. All empires eventually fall...

...and often due to its own immediate citizens.

The British Empire to its credit, figured a way to maintain a significant portion of its dominance and accept its reducing role. I don't see that happening with the US.

We'll be a power for sure....but, not with the influence as before. Russia has risen and fallen a number of times, they know how to handle this. Likewise, the EU is filled with countries who have the same experience. Then of course there is BRIC. They are the up an comers, and some obviously have the advantage.

We have lost influence since the жопа was elected.

[sarcasmo]

19. Trump is Caligula.

[rusty quoin]

22. I'm not sure. I do know one thing more sure.

We are going the way of extinction. We have lived out the Roman Empire, the Middle Ages, the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, the age of discovery, and especially the Industrial Age.

It’s not the way of Rome because barbarians were too much to handle on top of corruption.

With us, we know what to do, but refuse. Corruption is there too. It’s like Rome but not exactly.

[Kablooie]

23. If we are in the Caligula or Nero Era...

Then the country will last another 400 years.
Rome didn't fall until around 400 AD.

[DetlefK]

26. Do you know how Caligula and Nero died?

Caligula was killed by his bodyguards. (One of whom he had continually publicly insulted with nick-names.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caligula#Assassination_and_aftermath

After many scandals, Nero was declared a public enemy by the Senate. All of his friends and allies abandoned him and he tried to flee the country in disguise to escape his execution. When the enforcers of the Senate caught up to him, he forced his secretary to stab him, so they won't catch him alive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero#The_revolt_of_Vindex_and_Galba_and_the_death_of_Nero

[Skidmore]

24. Guess we should

all throw our hands up and give up on keeping freedom and democracy. Who needs to fight for rights? The apathy of this thread is more frightening than the monster in the WH.

[shanny]

35. There is a difference

between our empire and our democracy. I'd argue we need to lose the first to keep the second. As the UK did following WWII.

[appalachiablue]

28. Yes, been a hell of a ride. Oh well, another day another empire.

[SuperCoolPoster]

30. some interesting analysis

This is a great topic and I wonder whether this is indeed happening. The fall of the Roman Republic can serve as a warning sign.

I am really interested in Ancient Roman history and found these two interesting articles, which go into detail on the parallels between now and that time:

https://gainweightjournal.com/11-lessons-from-the-fall-of-the-republic-it-is-disturbing-how-relevant-they-are-for-today/

https://gainweightjournal.com/the-year-ahead-2019-the-dangerous-trends-that-are-shaking-up-the-world-today/

[gopiscrap]

44. welcome to DU

[raccoon]

33. No empire or world power stays a world power forever. nt

[pansypoo53219]

36. right now we are dipping into spain 1600's. read part 3 of kevin phillip's 2006 book.

heck. read prt 1 too. ignore part 2. think its american theocracy.

[SuperCoolPoster]

38. name of book?

What's the name of the book? American theocracy?

[Celerity]

45. American Theocracy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Theocracy

[rownesheck]

37. Yes.

I believe the decline began January, 1981...

[brooklynite]

40. Since you didn't bother to offer an opinion, I won't either.

[SuperCoolPoster]

41. any solutions to get out of this

How do we get out of becoming Rome?

[maxsolomon]

42. No.

History doesn't repeat; it rhymes.

[nolabear]

43. Funny you mention it. I was wondering the same last night.

Civilizations rise and fall. This might be what it looks like in the 21st Century.

The sad thing is it doesn’t have to be that way. But we certainly don’t seem to be putting the brakes on the descent. 2020 is going to make all the difference.

[SuperCoolPoster]

47. i also wonder

I keep wondering the same thing... even started reading books on the history of that time.. so many parallels...

[myohmy2]

46. Hope not...

...but it looks like it...

...

[SuperCoolPoster]

48. Trump is Crassus but without the skills

Trump is like Crassus but without the skills